Gehrig autograph prices/demand

[Forever Young]

Hey all,

I wanted to get your take on Lou Gehrig autographs in general. I have recently picked up 2 Gehrig autos(gc and letter). I also picked up a letter with Gehrig content. The two letters are attached below. Although I believe I paid a lot for these(prob more or at high end of market), I believe Gehrig is somewhat undervalued. Maybe I just love collecting Gehrig in general so I value them more?? It just seems like high end Gehrig sigs are tough to come by and he is such an important/POPULAR baseball figure. I really do not know what my question is..
I just want to know other's thoughts on Gehrig signatures in general as it relates to price, supply/demand and importance in baseball autograph land.

Thanks,

Ben

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=36088
I paid about 7100 recently in heritage,. To me, the content of his new bride was cool

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=34144
I paid about 3100 recently in heritage. The content of Lou is obviously where the premium is.

[JimStinson]

I don't know if this answers your question or not but here goes...I'll use both Lou Gehrig and Babe Ruth as examples here, as they have a bit in common from an autograph standpoint. For a long time the prices for an autograph of either inched skyward and (I think) peaked about 7 years ago. There was a time that it was nearly impossible for me to have either a Ruth or Gehrig autograph in inventory for more than 24 hours.
Since then I've noticed a steady slow decline in pricing on both. In general either one of them sells for about 20%-30% less than they did back then. Its not the economy or the hobby (I don't think) as while they are selling for less some other players autographs are selling for 20-30% more than they did 7 years ago.
The exception being the really choice and unique Ruth/Gehrig items are STILL going to fall into the "skys the limit" range but as an overall rule of thumb the prices have come done.
____________________________
Buying and selling Vintage Autographs for over 3 decades
jim@stinsonsports.com

[GKreindler]

Not for nothing, but that Combs letter is incredible.

If ya think about, he was really there from the beginning. His first year was in '24, but started as a regular the year after. He retired as a player in '35, I think, only to become a Yankee coach for the rest of Gehrig's tenure. So, seeing him grow into one of the greatest ballplayers of all time, and then slip away into that terrible disease must have been really something.

The letter's dated not too long after he benched himself at Briggs, too. I think at the time, the Yankees thought that he just needed some time off so he could recuperate from whatever he was going through. And, if it's dated May 17, it was after their first game in New York since Gehrig took himself out of the lineup and only about two weeks before he went to the Mayo Clinic for the first time.

It seems like even at that point, the observant Combs really knew how serious his ailment was.

Very sad, indeed.

Graig

[Forever Young]

I don't know if this answers your question or not but here goes...I'll use both Lou Gehrig and Babe Ruth as examples here, as they have a bit in common from an autograph standpoint. For a long time the prices for an autograph of either inched skyward and (I think) peaked about 7 years ago. There was a time that it was nearly impossible for me to have either a Ruth or Gehrig autograph in inventory for more than 24 hours.
Since then I've noticed a steady slow decline in pricing on both. In general either one of them sells for about 20%-30% less than they did back then. Its not the economy or the hobby (I don't think) as while they are selling for less some other players autographs are selling for 20-30% more than they did 7 years ago.
The exception being the really choice and unique Ruth/Gehrig items are STILL going to fall into the "skys the limit" range but as an overall rule of thumb the prices have come done.
____________________________
Buying and selling Vintage Autographs for over 3 decades
jim@stinsonsports.com


Thank you for the response Jim. I know you have been in the biz for many a moon and have seen a lot of its evolution so your response means a lot. I know Ruth is Ruth but it seems high end Gehrig items are much tougher to come by. By high end, I mean anything greater than a small cut and/or low quality autograph. I feel like they should be worth double what a Ruth is even taking into account the "ruth is ruth" argument.
Perhaps the yankees need to dump arod so they can win another WS so babe and lou go up! :)

[GKreindler]

Well, I'm no expert on this sort of thing, but I would imagine that Gehrig signatures are in less quantity than Ruths. I mean, given the introverted and quiet nature of Gehrig (as well as that he supposedly went out of his way to avoid autograph seekers), isn't it safe to assume at the very least that Ruth was more of a prolific signer?

Granted, I have no idea what this would mean for the value of their signatures in the market. Either way, it's a pretty interesting study in contrast.

Graig

[packs]

As often as Gehrig and Ruth were paired together for tours and publicity shots I'd think there's almost as many Gehrigs out there as there are Ruths. I would think Ruth signed more but I'd think that more people would have held onto their Gehrigs, evening out the numbers. I bet a kid got Ruth every day and lost or traded half of them. But after Gehrig died so early I would think if you had him, you held onto him. Ruth wouldn't die for 8 more years.

[Forever Young]

Well, I'm no expert on this sort of thing, but I would imagine that Gehrig signatures are in less quantity than Ruths. I mean, given the introverted and quiet nature of Gehrig (as well as that he supposedly went out of his way to avoid autograph seekers), isn't it safe to assume at the very least that Ruth was more of a prolific signer?

Granted, I have no idea what this would mean for the value of their signatures in the market. Either way, it's a pretty interesting study in contrast.

Graig

Yes Graig.. I competely agree but I still kinda feel like it is a good time to buy Gehrig comparing the price with Ruth and other past greats.

PS: You should be the writer for these auction houses man. The research you did on the dates would have cost me money:) I always look at the dates and see what happened around them when I buy an auto(if available). The fact that neither auction house made the date a centerpiece in the Combs letter really did not do the piece justice. I am really happy with the pickup. It might look pretty good framed with one of these...:)

[JimStinson]

Pretty much all of the above is true and agree with all. From a signing perspective even though Gehrig died in 1941 his signing ended about halfway through 1939. Ruth died in 1948 and although much of the material around 1947 till his death was signed by his wife , he did make a grand tour throughout Florida participating in many public events and signing alot of stuff.
I'll relate a couple personal observations , both very sad. I used to visit Bill Terry all of the time and we spoke often. He told me that Gehrig was one of the biggest and strongest players he ever saw over 200 pounds of raw muscle. He told me it was one of the saddest sights he ever saw when he met with Gehrig shortly before his death. He told me that Gehrig was barely 100 pounds.
Another point I remember a LONG time ago an elderly gentleman asked me to appraise a signed 1939 program for him signed by the entire Yankees team. It was a dinner or banquet late in the season. And he got it signed himself. He was not wanting to sell it just wanted my opinion. My first question was "Did Gehrig sign it ?" and he said "yes" but "it dosen't look anything like his signature. So I looked at it and all of the 1939 Yankees were there and I kept flipping it upside down trying to find the Lou Gehrig autograph. He showed me a portion of the program that was a squiggle line that I originally thought was used by one of the signers to see if the pen was working and he said "Thats Gehrig", I asked him if he was ABSOLUTELY certain he witnessed him sign it and he said yes and I believe him. Have attached a picture of me and Bill Terry to prove I don;t just make this stuff up....:)

[David Atkatz]

Jim, in October 1939 Gehrig could still write well. Here's a '39 WS program he signed.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/datkatz/1939WSprogcov-1.jpg


http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/datkatz/1939WSproggehrigs.jpg

[JimStinson]

In 1940, the New York Daily News ran an article suggesting that Lou Gehrig's Disease was contagious and speculated that the Yankees' mid-season slide may have been caused by the Yankees having contracted the disease. Appalled at the insensitivity of the article and concerned about the resulting public reaction, Gehrig and the Yankees filed suit against the paper, demanding a retraction. In a two-page document, dated December 19th, 1940, Lou Gehrig agreed to accept $17500 from the Daily News as settlement for any and all harm caused by the article. Although Gehrig managed to endorse the document "Henry Louis Gehrig" (10/10) in black ink, the signature is extremely sloppy and was obviously written with tremendous effort.
__________________________
Buying and Selling Vintage autographs for over three decades
jim@stinsonsports.com

[David Atkatz]

Yes, but that was over a year after the signature above was was written. (And, in fact a mere six months before his death.) By 1940 he could no longer write without considerable difficulty, if at all, and he was consistently signing with a rubber stamp:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/datkatz/gehrig1940stamppcfr.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/datkatz/gehrig_1940_stamp_pc.jpg

I have seen the signature you describe, and wouldn't be at all surprised if he had help moving his hand. (Photos taken of Gehrig at his Parole Board desk seem to show a great deal of hand paralysis,)

There are many letters of thanks written by Gehrig after "Lou Gehrig Appreciation Day," July, 4th, 1939. They are all signed by Gehrig, and signed well. During the 1939 season, his signature was not a scrawl.

[39special]

Yes, but that was over a year after the signature above was was written. (And, in fact a mere six months before his death.) By 1940 he could no longer write without considerable difficulty, if at all, and he was consistently signing with a rubber stamp:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/datkatz/gehrig1940stamppcfr.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/datkatz/gehrig_1940_stamp_pc.jpg

I have seen the signature you describe, and wouldn't be at all surprised if he had help moving his hand. (Photos taken of Gehrig at his Parole Board desk seem to show a great deal of hand paralysis,)

There are many letters of thanks written by Gehrig after "Lou Gehrig Appreciation Day," July, 4th, 1939. They are all signed by Gehrig, and signed well. During the 1939 season, his signature was not a scrawl.

David is a card like that with the rubber stamp worth anything?

[David Atkatz]

I suppose it's worth what someone is wiling to pay. I wanted an example for my collection. I saw mine on eBay, presented as genuine by an antique dealer. I explained what it was, showed him an identical example, offered a few hundred bucks, and he accepted.

[39special]

Thanks David.I think its a pretty neat piece.

[Deertick]

Yes, but that was over a year after the signature above was was written. (And, in fact a mere six months before his death.) By 1940 he could no longer write without considerable difficulty, if at all, and he was consistently signing with a rubber stamp:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/datkatz/gehrig1940stamppcfr.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/datkatz/gehrig_1940_stamp_pc.jpg

I have seen the signature you describe, and wouldn't be at all surprised if he had help moving his hand. (Photos taken of Gehrig at his Parole Board desk seem to show a great deal of hand paralysis,)

There are many letters of thanks written by Gehrig after "Lou Gehrig Appreciation Day," July, 4th, 1939. They are all signed by Gehrig, and signed well. During the 1939 season, his signature was not a scrawl.

WOW! I grew up less than 3 miles from that address! My brother lives 2 blocks away.

[Forever Young]

Jim, in October 1939 Gehrig could still write well. Here's a '39 WS program he signed.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/datkatz/1939WSprogcov-1.jpg


http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/datkatz/1939WSproggehrigs.jpg

This item is DOOOOOPE!