View Full Version : An inescapable dilema for Lance Armstrong is...
He will be asked to testify in future court cases, as defendant and/or witness, and will be asked to testify under oath about his PED use. Lying to the general public is one thing, lying in court is another.
And since he's already sued and received money from people and companies based on his claim that he never used PEDs, I bet he's thinking "Uh oh."
He will be asked to testify in future court cases, as defendant and/or witness, and will be asked to testify under oath about his PED use. Lying to the general public is one thing, lying in court is another.
And since he's already sued and received money from people and companies based on his claim that he never used PEDs, I bet he's thinking "Uh oh."
Yesterday was another pretty bad day for him. Seems as though he is taking the brunt for what everyone, including he, had been doing for many years. It will be interesting to see if they go after anyone else, legally.
CMIZ5290
10-23-2012, 08:03 AM
Despite the rumors and charges potentially facing him, i can help be feel just a bit sad. The money he has helped raise for the fight against cancer is absolutely overwhelming. I truly do wish him well.
For years the guy used high priced lawyers to sue and threaten people who he knew were telling the truth. Sorry if I lack sympathy when these actions back to haunt him.
HRBAKER
10-23-2012, 07:47 PM
It ain't the cheating but the lying that bothers me the most.
The hubris is astounding, he gets no quarter from my way.
The fact that he is bearing the brunt was wholly brought on by himself and his aggressive in your face and wallet style of denial and deceit. And the fact of course that he was the most successful cheat and an American to boot.
thescooper
10-23-2012, 11:44 PM
I hear Armstrong has been stripped of all his titles. Does that mean he is no longer the first man on the moon?
alanu
10-23-2012, 11:45 PM
While I don't have much sympathy for Lance Armstrong, the Tour needs to look back at stripping all the dopers for previous titles won. An example is Alberto Cantador who I think won 2 titles before being stripped of his 2010 title for doping.
Another example is Jan Ulrich who won a title and was later banned for doping.
If they are going to go thru so much trouble to go after Armstrong, they need to do just as extensive investigations of all winners, which in my opinion would result in most if not all of the winners of the last several decades being stripped of their titles, if not longer. Blood doping has been around for long time.
With that said, even with all of the doping, I can't help but say I'm always entertained by the tour and the amazing feat of the cyclists just to finish.
laughlinfan
10-24-2012, 05:26 AM
I think I heard yesterday that of the 21 top three finishers in the 7 years he won the Tour, 20 of them have been implicated of using PEDs. Sadly, with so much money at stake, I think the bigger race is between the chemists and the testers, and it seems as though the testers are destined to be years behind.
frankbmd
10-24-2012, 05:46 AM
When I was ill and not working several years ago (not sure which year), I watched the Tour. For several days in a row the previous days leader was disqualified for PEDs or somesuch and a new leader was named. It was difficult to sustain interest in the competitive aspect of the race, but.........
the scenery was beautiful. The chateaus and castles are awesome.
I have some Lance Armstrong 1992 Olympic Rookie Cards available. That's my dilemma.
Runscott
10-24-2012, 09:38 AM
I think I heard yesterday that of the 21 top three finishers in the 7 years he won the Tour, 20 of them have been implicated of using PEDs. Sadly, with so much money at stake, I think the bigger race is between the chemists and the testers, and it seems as though the testers are destined to be years behind.
Some of my cycling friends here on the board will disagree with me on this, and I certainly respect their opinions, but this sport got to a point where anyone who was serious about winning HAD to cheat in order to compete with the other cheaters. I'm not condoning it, just saying that according to ...the cheaters... the great but clean athletes weren't capable of making the leader board. And if you hear a 'clean' athlete say that this isn't true, there's a good chance that he's actually just another cheater who hasn't been caught yet. Sad state of affairs.
Who let the sport get to that point? Is it still there? Catching Lance (and others) doesn't mean the sport is now squeaky clean.
Touch'EmAll
10-24-2012, 09:52 AM
It appears Lance simply cheated better than anyone else. He is getting penalized because he cheated too good. If he cheated just average like everyone else, who knows, maybe he wouldn't be in this mess. On a side note, I am a competitive Masters swimmer - just had a couple swim meets recently. I swear some of the older dudes (50 ish + age) look just too good and buff. This day in age, I wonder? Hmmm?
CMIZ5290
10-24-2012, 12:00 PM
It appears Lance simply cheated better than anyone else. He is getting penalized because he cheated too good. If he cheated just average like everyone else, who knows, maybe he wouldn't be in this mess. On a side note, I am a competitive Masters swimmer - just had a couple swim meets recently. I swear some of the older dudes (50 ish + age) look just too good and buff. This day in age, I wonder? Hmmm?
+1
I think if you ask many people-- in particular women--, the lying is the offense greater than the doping. Notice that the baseball players forgiven by the public for using PEDs are the ones who admit to it and apologize. The ones who are still derided are the ones who continue to deny it even though it is obvious to most they used.
Runscott
10-24-2012, 12:56 PM
I swear some of the older dudes (50 ish + age) look just too good and buff. This day in age, I wonder? Hmmm?
There's nothing unusual about someone 50+ looking 'too good and buff.' Too good by today's pastry-eating society, maybe, but our bodies are there waiting for us to use them.
CMIZ5290
10-24-2012, 05:50 PM
I do know one thing for sure. I wish bryant gumbel would shut his mouth. I can't stand him and i despise him. He must suffer from amnesia on all of his personal bulls*** that he never seems to bring up, but he gets free reign to lambast other celebrities. Every person i know in the national media says that this guy is a complete douche bag.....
alanu
10-24-2012, 07:33 PM
I do know one thing for sure. I wish bryant gumbel would shut up his militant mouth. It's amazing in this day and age with racism, but this guy is the biggest racist out there. I can't stand him and i despise him. He must suffer from amnesia on all of his personal bullshit that he never seems to bring up, but he gets free reign to lambast other celebrities. Every person i know in the national media says that this guy is a complete douche bag.....
If you're referring to his little editorial blurb at the end of the most recent Real Sports on HBO, I completely agree. He was way out of line with some of his comments.
Speaking of Real Sports, did anyone watch it and not get teary eyed during the volleyball store?
CMIZ5290
10-25-2012, 07:23 AM
My apologies for any comments made that were sensitive to some members. I just get sick and tired of seeing this guy lay into some people, but completely ignore others that are just as obvious.
I do agree that the steadfast lying by Armstrong might be worse than the cheating, as everyone did it. I am not saying cheating was ok just that the lying, after the fact, is worse. It reminds me of Charlie Hustle. It also reminds me of what we teach our daughter every single day....and that is lying is usually worse than what you are lying about. My wife and I treat it as such too. Everyone makes mistakes and it's how we handle them that is the difference between a winner and a loser. (my view) Right now Lance is being a loser. And lastly this is not to diminish the good he has done with raising money for cancer. He has done a lot of good in that respect and I hope it continues (and think it will)..
steve B
10-26-2012, 05:51 PM
Having read some of the hard evidence and the science behind it I've become convinced. I wondered for years how he could pass so many tests and still have the accusations. I'd put it down to his personality. Always one to trash an ex teammate who left because they wanted a slice of the spotlight.
The culture as I've said before is one that embraces the repentant. Sort of like if Barry Bonds said "yeah, you caught me" did his year off and all was forgiven. Maybe it's a European thing.
Having read the article in SI, what saddens me is that the UCI officials right up to include two presidents of the organization declared him clean when they knew absolutely that he wasn't. One positive test went away followed closely by a 150K "donation" from Lance that was used for of all things a youth anti doping education program and a piece of testing equipment.
In my mind there's cheating - Bad but apparently common. And then there's ruining the careers of those who know and speak out - Much worse.
And finally allowing a known cheat to continue in return for payoffs as long as the money keeps coming......... There's a lot of guys who should also be getting a lifetime ban if not jail time. But they won't get any punishment at all.
And as someoneelse mentioned the number of places they'd have to back up if they removed the results of all the riders who have at one time tested positive would be crazy.
On the plus side Jan Ullrich just became a 4 time tdf winner.:rolleyes:
(His results from 05 and 06 were already stripped earlier this year by an arbitration board. He was also retroactively banned from 2011 on, despite being retired since early 2007 I guess to prevent any sort of comeback.)
Steve B