Re-Cutting Hand Cut Cards

[rdixon1208]

Do any of you ever trim up your hand cut cards? I was looking at a hand cut card in a SGC A holder that was bigger than the original border all the way around but with really rough/uneven edges. My thought was to buy it, crack it, and re-cut it at the borders the way it was originally intended to be. I've never really thought about taking a sharp object to a card before, but in this case I can kind of justify it. Thoughts?

[bigtrain]

I think we have all seen some horrible hand cuts especially on strip cards. I probably wouldn't crack one out of a holder but wouldn't have a problem re-cutting one that looks like it was cut by the town drunk with a grapefruit spoon.

[frankbmd]

Wow! I'll have to try that grapefruit spoon trick. Now where did I leave my drink.:eek:

[CobbSpikedMe]

I've often wondered the same thing. What are the members thoughts on this practice? The cards were always meant to be hand cut. So if the original owner really butchered the cut (or in many cases just ripped the cards apart) and there is plenty of border left, then why not cut it better the way it was meant to be cut in the first place?

I'm still not sure where I stand on this, but I am leaning to thinking it is ok to clean up a badly cut or torn strip card.

Thanks,

AndyH


.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Do any of you ever trim up your hand cut cards? I was looking at a hand cut card in a SGC A holder that was bigger than the original border all the way around but with really rough/uneven edges. My thought was to buy it, crack it, and re-cut it at the borders the way it was originally intended to be. I've never really thought about taking a sharp object to a card before, but in this case I can kind of justify it. Thoughts?

Great question, would love to hear others thoughts on this. Very interesting. IMO why not, can't necessarily make it worse. But you could go with the side of it could be an original "cut" you are altering that has some history to it. I have a horribly cut card, but it gives some history to it. Did an excited kid go to town on the card? Who knows, but its worth the thought

[Jaybird]

When I see a cleanly cut strip card I assume it has been retrimmed. Because these were normally cut by children, I expect uneven borders.

[smtjoy]

I have done it a few times for more modern issues like Post and Bazooka so I dont see any issues with it. I just could not stand the uneven borders, it distracted from the card imo. I have seen a few Zeenuts where if I owned them it would drive me crazy but I have just passed on buying them instead of making that decision on a tough vintage card.

[rainier2004]

I have never cut a card personally, but I might lean to what my intentions with the card was. I know Id bust it out of the slab to start, and then eventually the edges would probably bother me enough to re-trim if I planned on keeping the card. To get the ethical nag off my back Id disclose that info if I ever did sell. There is the point already mentioned that the card was cut that way and you are altering history. In the end it your card and you have the right to do it as you please. Nice question.

[steve B]

It's a tough question.

I think the answer is that it's usually ok to do it, but I probably wouldn't.

There are a few things that would make me say it wouldn't be ok. If the cut was bad enough that it showed part of another card or some sort of markings from the edge of the sheet. Stuff like that I think would be wrong to trim off.

Steve B

[Forever Young]

I was actually just wondering this the other day as it relates to the old strip cards. If one is cut down, does that make any difference if it is considered just authentic or can me graded a 1, 2, 3..ect? In other words, is there a border point? Most cards I see with a numeric grade have decent size borders. The AUT examples almost always seem very "trimmed". Is this just coincidence?

[atx840]

I'd prefer printer scrap cards be left with the original cut, for me it's part of the history of the card.

[terjung]

I see no issue with recutting a hand cut card.

[christopher.herman]

When I see a cleanly cut strip card I assume it has been retrimmed. Because these were normally cut by children, I expect uneven borders.

Agreed.
In my opinion, when it comes to strip cards, aesthetics rule.
-Chris.

[drc]

My opinion is if the only reason to alter a antique is money, then it should be altered.

* Strip cards are a bit of an exception as they were designed be handcut.

[Forever Young]

I was actually just wondering this the other day as it relates to the old strip cards. If one is cut down, does that make any difference if it is considered just authentic or can me graded a 1, 2, 3..ect? In other words, is there a border point? Most cards I see with a numeric grade have decent size borders. The AUT examples almost always seem very "trimmed". Is this just coincidence?

So again... the strip cards... if the borders are cut off almost entirely to make it perfectly sharp, will psa and/or sgc still give it a numeric grade(w514 for example). Any experts know this?

[christopher.herman]

So again... the strip cards... if the borders are cut off almost entirely to make it perfectly sharp, will psa and/or sgc still give it a numeric grade(w514 for example). Any experts know this?

Of course.

The TPG companies does not know "when" the card was cut. PSA will put "hand cut" on the label.

Trimming "excess" borders is very common for strips and you should assume as much if you see a "perfectly sharp" strip card.

[Forever Young]

Of course.

The TPG companies does not know "when" the card was cut. PSA will put "hand cut" on the label.

Trimming "excess" borders is very common for strips and you should assume as much if you see a "perfectly sharp" strip card.

Ok... that is what I thought. I didn't know if they applied a certain standard for how much border needed to be present to grade out. Thus my question... thank you for your response sir.
So basically.. the guy who spend 15k on the Ruth w514 psa 8 is kind of out of his mind as far as true scarcity goes?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PoP-1-BABE-RUTH-1919-Nm-Mt-PSA-8-The-FINEST-W514-Ruth-EVER-GRADED-L-K-/120986082801?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item1c2b551df1&nma=true&si=yRtbybfWTYhHwIvFr91t5KE3Yx0%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
It seems to me that these will never reach high dollar amounts in the minds of most graded collectors(ones who spend the big money) as pretty much anything goes. Just my opinion. And btw.. I am out of my mind too when it comes to this stuff so if the buyer of that card is out there, please take no offense.
I actually really dig the look and feel of the w514 strip cards. The good news is, I will be able to buy them as they are relatively inexpensive for a presentable example. The bad news is.. perhaps not a great investment as far as cards go.

[Exhibitman]

I do it any time I get a strip card with a bad cut and margin for a fix. A raggedly cut strip card annoys me. It looks lousy in my binder and doesn't fit with the other cards from my sets. I don't trim the card to the point of being undersized because that annoys me too.

I guess I get annoyed easily.

[Forever Young]

I guess I get annoyed easily.

HAHAHA... AWESOME. Me too...

[Bocabirdman]

Strip Cards give PSA pause. "Authentic Hand Cut"?:D

75673

[christopher.herman]

So basically.. the guy who spend 15k on the Ruth w514 psa 8 is kind of out of his mind as far as true scarcity goes?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PoP-1-BABE-RUTH-1919-Nm-Mt-PSA-8-The-FINEST-W514-Ruth-EVER-GRADED-L-K-/120986082801?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item1c2b551df1&nma=true&si=yRtbybfWTYhHwIvFr91t5KE3Yx0%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


Possibly.

Here's mine for comparison:
http://www.collectorfocus.com/images/show/christopher_herman/1919-21-w514-strip-cards/5618/2-babe-ruth

[steve B]

I thought they would only give a handcut card an A unless some or most of the original border is showing.
Trimming straight and square may not be enough. It would make a crooked rough card better looking, but not necessarily gradeable.

None of mine are better than "A" either way.


Steve B

[novakjr]

I thought they would only give a handcut card an A unless some or most of the original border is showing.
Trimming straight and square may not be enough. It would make a crooked rough card better looking, but not necessarily gradeable.

None of mine are better than "A" either way.


Steve B

I think ALL of the originally intended border must be showing to get a numerical grade..

[Forever Young]

Possibly.

Here's mine for comparison:
http://www.collectorfocus.com/images/show/christopher_herman/1919-21-w514-strip-cards/5618/2-babe-ruth

This is the grade I find appealing but I guess you could just trim it down and get a higher grade?? Silly to me.. just promotes more trimming. I feel there should be an amount of borde rthat needs to me on the card to grade out. maybe there is... hence my question.

[Jaybird]

Has someone already stated that it's a bit silly to numerically grade any strip cards? Are we judging the accuracy of the kids scissor technique? WTF?

[Forever Young]

I think ALL of the originally intended border must be showing to get a numerical grade..

OK.. That makes a little more sense to me. Thanks

[Brian Van Horn]

I think the Marx Brothers in Monkey Business summed up my feelings (the scene being from the 1:58 mark to 3:56 in the trailer):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTQififsFc8

[frankbmd]

SURGEON: "Scalpel"

NURSE: "Yes, Doctor"

SURGEON: "Square"

NURSE: "Yes, Doctor"

SURGEON: "Strip"

NURSE (blushing) : "Later, Doctor"

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Mine is poorly cut, but I don't mind. It has history and gives it character. Just think of the excitement of a kid cutting these.

[kmac32]

As tempting as it is to trim, leave these cards alone. Part of the card's history.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

As tempting as it is to trim, leave these cards alone. Part of the card's history.

+1 will not crack mine out. I like it

[Leon]

I have never re-cut a strip card but probably don't have a huge issue with it and might do it in the near future. I think all strip cards should get a "handcut" qualifier too. If they are large enough grade them numerically and if too small give them an AUT. ALL should have the qualifier though..

[ullmandds]

It is ridiculous that some strips have numerical grades...none should...they should all say hand cut...period.

[botn]

It makes plenty of sense to me why they can assign grades to hand cut cards--there is far more that impacts a grade than corners and edges. Just because it is hand cut it is still prone to creases, poor image quality, paper loss, etc that other non hand cut cards. The market has already show us what value they place on most hand cut issues. Besides if you look at a majority of high grade cards (and even way too many lower grade cards) in graded holders they are hand cut and the flips do not even say so!

[Fred]

I don't see anything wrong with trimming/cutting hand cut cards, however IMO, part of the essence of the card is having those original cuts. Also, while we're on the topic - TPGs should assign ONLY an AUTH grade on those hand cut cards and cards that have had a "coupon" removed (like Zeenuts) should not be graded higher than an AUTH.

[drc]

I agree with Peter. My opinion is handcut strip cards cards should not get a numerical grade.

[christopher.herman]

I agree with Peter. My opinion is handcut strip cards cards should not get a numerical grade.

Agreed. Hand cut authentic. Then let aesthetics dictate.
-C.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Well it seems the majority agrees with deserving the AUTH grade, but what about cutting them after the fact...

[robw1959]

There is a border point for these strip cards, usually designated by dotted lines around the perimeter. I've only submitted about a half dozen strip cards for grading, and they all came back with "AUT" except for a Walter Johnson card that earned a "3." Of course that card has much more of its border intact.

[ZernialFan]

Any thoughts on these two? Are these older graded and have TPG companies changed how they currently grade strip cards?

Thx,
Charlie

[TomKovacs]

As a Wheaties collector, I will pay a premium for card with big untouched boarders (see Pepper Martin below). For me, more card the better. I agree 100% that hand cut cards should not get a numerical grade. I don’t understand how there can be numerical grades on chopped up panels such as this DiMaggio on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1940-Wheaties-Champs-USA-W-BIO-Joe-Dimaggio-Yankees-Rookie-NNO-PSA-9-08251545-/320985823060?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item4abc3ef754

[Jaybird]

It makes plenty of sense to me why they can assign grades to hand cut cards--there is far more that impacts a grade than corners and edges. Just because it is hand cut it is still prone to creases, poor image quality, paper loss, etc that other non hand cut cards. The market has already show us what value they place on most hand cut issues. Besides if you look at a majority of high grade cards (and even way too many lower grade cards) in graded holders they are hand cut and the flips do not even say so!


I'm not a huge fan of grading so take this with a grain of salt...

The corners and edges must account for a percentage of the grade. What percentage? Typically we see cards with nothing more than corner wear and flawless fronts and backs receive 3s and 4s. The edges and corners are keeping it from receiving a higher grade. So, how do these recut cards receive a grade higher than 3 or 4? I don't get it.

They should either all grade authentic or no higher than 3 or 4 based on perfect non-creased fronts and backs.

[T206Collector]

I refuse to acknowledge a number grade for a strip card when the grade accounts for corners and edges that were not produced at the factory. If you can bust it out of the case to improve its condition with a box cutter, count me out.

I absolutely love the horrible edges on my W515-2s. I sometimes have fun "improving" their condition in scans/images on my computer. But I would never take a knife to them nearly 100 years after they were initially created.

[ls7plus]

As tempting as it is to trim, leave these cards alone. Part of the card's history.

Agreed. Relating to the same point but in a different context is my 1947 Tip Top Bread Ralph Kiner. Some avid fan back in its day took the time to write in fountain pen, "51 homeruns in 1947." Obviously, this defaces the card, but it was in poor-good at best anyway, and I like to think that someone with the same enthusiam I have for Kiner (one of my favorite players since I was a kid, although I never actually saw him play) treasured his performance and his card!

Great thread,

Larry