T206 sweet cap 150 factory 25 backs, Tougher than we think?

[CMIZ5290]

I just noticed something today that really struck me as extremely odd. Of all the t206s i have in my collection (around 300), i only have 8 with this back! Tons of 350's and 350-460's, but only 8 with this one. Is this just a coincidence, or is it possible that this back is slightly scarcer than what most collectors think? Keep in mind that i never target cards with particular common backs, just ones that are nicely graded......

[pgellis]

I only have 5 out of 331 graded cards.

[frankbmd]

10 out of 576

[CMIZ5290]

Frank/phil- are you guys like me, just buying nice cards regardless of what the common back was? If so, this does appear to be a little interesting......

[tonyo]

15/519
fair/good/vg

[Tao_Moko]

I have 7 in my cubs set alone and that's out of 9 total with SC150 backs. I must be lucky.

[pgellis]

Frank/phil- are you guys like me, just buying nice cards regardless of what the common back was? If so, this does appear to be a little interesting......

Yes, backs are not important to me, just looking for SGC50 or better, irregardless of back.

[CMIZ5290]

I hope ted will chime in......Based on just a few other member's stats, maybe it's not a coincidence.....

[tonyo]

I once (a year or two ago) tried to determine the distribution of all backs relative to a 520 card set. (I was going to try to make my 520 mirror that distribution)

I used Bill Browns superset spreadsheet, Scot Readers data, the back multipliers from SCD and t206.org., and the list of toughest backs that were the subject of more than one thread.

I'm sure my method had faults, but regardless the target number I arrived at was 8/520 SC150-25's

Take that for what it's worth :)

[frankbmd]

Frank/phil- are you guys like me, just buying nice cards regardless of what the common back was? If so, this does appear to be a little interesting......

Kevin,

No particular interest in backs, except to ultimately get an example of each. From a buying perspective with Sweet Caps they are the same to me. In reviewing my backs though, I have fewer examples of SC 350-460 Fact 25 and SC 350-460 Fact 30, than than the SC 150 Fact 25s.

In purchasing Sweet Caps, most sellers do not differentiate the backs and often it is difficult to know what you are getting, particularly if there is no back scan.:D

[Bocabirdman]

I have 11 out of 163. (Frank, I will update my Monter Number to 162.6 later). I actually look for Sweet Caps and Piedmonts to keep the price down.

[Vegas-guy]

I was curious so I just looked at my 35 cards and found 1..:)

[CMIZ5290]

I just had another member email me. Only 4 out of 206 cards, this just seems very peculiar to me.....ted, where are you??

[Texxxx]

Out of 642 total cards:
8 - 150 F25
14 - 350-460 F25
3 - 350-460 F30

[t206hound]

My collection has 299 SGC 40s; my distribution of SCs (74) are as follows:
SC150-25: 4
SC150-30: 13
SC150-649OP: 2
SC350-25: 11
SC350-30: 29
SC460-25: 2
SC460-30: 5
SC460-42: 2
SC460-42OP: 6

[Tao_Moko]

I really do have more SC150/25's then any other SC back in my Cubs set but wouldn't a lower population of these be relative to the fact that it's an early run. And, did printing of SC move to factory 30 or were they being produced at the same time?

[t206blogcom]

I don't track factory numbers in my excel file and I don't have all of my T206s scanned in and on my site. I took a quick look of the 300 or so I have scanned and put online and found the following:

http://www.t206blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/t206-Chesbro-Sweet-Caporal-150.jpg
http://www.t206blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/t206-Marquard-standing-Sweet-Caporal-150.jpg
http://www.t206blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/t206-Pastorius-Sweet-Caporal-150.jpg
http://www.t206blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/t206-Spencer-Sweet-Caporal-150.jpg

[jp1216]

Only 5 of 520 for me. 2 are HOFers (Keeler & Marquard)

[CMIZ5290]

Ted, where are you??

[wazoo]

Out of 57 cards, I only have 2. Burch batting and Merkle Portrait.

[jimross]

223 out of 678.... i must be lucky or something. However, 95% of my t206s are SC backs

[Pat R]

...

[Jantz]

Hi Kevin

I have 7 with a possible 8th (forgot to right down the factory # on my checklist) out of 276 total.


Jantz

[tonyo]

223 out of 678.... i must be lucky or something. However, 95% of my t206s are SC backs

Wow...
Before Jim's post, most everyone was hovering around 1.5, 2, 2.5% (except Boca 7% and Eric 7/Cubs 25ish? = 28%).

Jim is at 33%....are you sure you're just counting factory 25's ?

edit to add: I just re-read Jim's post and see that 95% of his cards are SC................... back to the coffee pot! Carry on.
edit again:..... that's still 34% of all his SC's are factory 25's........... I would have expected more like 6% based on my own distribution list.

[iwantitiwinit]

1 of 21

[teetwoohsix]

Out of 21 Sweet Caporal backed cards, I have 3 that are SC150/25:

[Runscott]

1 out of 18

As far as Jim having a high percentage, not too strange. I bought a large collection of Sweet Caps and a very high percentage of them were 649 OP's - it just depends on where the collection came from and when they were picked up.

[steve B]

Mine is

198 total T206

Sc 150 25 3
SC 150 30 5
SC 150 OP 2

SC 350 25 5
SC 350 30 34

SC 350-460 25 5
SC 350-460 30 4
SC 350-460 42 2
SC 350-460 42op 2

When I started I bought in an odd pattern for the time. I'd buy the less common backs over SC or piedmont. But I didn't pay much attention to the factory. And I still don't pay much attention to the factory aside from picking up the couple 150OP backs since I hadn't bought any till about a year ago.

Steve B

[E93]

Kevin,
Interesting question but I don't think the numbers are too shocking when we start analyzing by factory numbers. At that point there are 39 different backs so if one of them constitutes 2-3% that is more or less to be expected. Among Sweet Cap backs it may be on the tougher side.

I actually think the Sweet Cap 350-460 factory 42 no overstrike is the toughest Sweet Cap back, at least from my experience. When I started paying attention to factory numbers for my back run, I had ZERO examples of this back out of 600 T206s in my collection.
JimB

http://photos.imageevent.com/jimblumenthal/t206backs/websize/T206%20Ford%20back.jpg

[tonyo]

I actually think the Sweet Cap 350-460 factory 42 no overstrike is the toughest Sweet Cap back, .................


3/519.... SC 350-460 42's in my collection


The "expected" distribution from my simple tabulation is:

sc150 25; 7-8 (15)
sc150 30 ; 25 (25)
sc350 25 ; 11-16 (8)
sc350 30 ; 61-65 (50)
sc350-460 30; 9-10 (9)
sc350-460 42; 3 (3)
sc150 649 op; 6-9 (3)
sc350-460 25; 2-3 (2)
sc350-460 42 op; 6-10 (6)

number in parenthesis is the number of each back I have in my 519 collection

[teetwoohsix]

Interesting observation JimB, about the SC 350-460 Factory 42 No Overprint.
Of my 21 SC backed cards, this is the only SC350/460 F42 No OP I have:

[t206blogcom]

Of the 300 cards I've actually scanned, I found a few Sweet Cap 350-460 factory 42 no overstrike examples:

http://www.t206blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/t206-Chance-portrait-yellow-Sweet-Caporal-350-460-SGC-40.jpg
http://www.t206blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/t206-Hugh-Duffy-Sweet-Caporal-350-460-SGC-501.jpg

and one with a 'wet sheet transfer':
http://www.t206blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/t206-Scheckard-Sweet-Caporal-350-460-factory-42.jpg


While looking at my site, I only found one of these:

http://www.t206blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/t206-Ewing-Sweet-Caporal-150-overprint.jpg

[Idiottax]

I went through my cards today and found 8 out of 460 with a SC 150 Factory 25 back and 2 cards with a SC 350-460 Factory 42 back. In all, there is about 110 cards with Sweet Caporal backs in my set, as I haven't updated my back list in a few months.

[CMIZ5290]

I went back thru my cards, and i only have 4 with the scap 350-460 factory 42 back (do we now think this is actually scarcer than the 350-460 factory 25 back?). That might make for another thread. I think there is no mistaking that these are rarer versions that the 150 series card. I just think that maybe this back is a little more scarce than thought of.

[Jantz]

J@son/T206blogcom

Your Duffy has a wet sheet transfer also. Look above his bat or in the lower left corner (in the grass) with a loupe. ;)


Jantz

[Iwantmorecards77]

Interesting - I too have a Factory 42 Duffy with the "wet sheet transfer."

As far as SC 150 (Factory 25) - I have one (Walter Johnson portrait.)

[teetwoohsix]

J@son/T206blogcom

Your Duffy has a wet sheet transfer also. Look above his bat or in the lower left corner (in the grass) with a loupe. ;)


Jantz

Good eye Jantz !!! I didn't even see that until you pointed it out. That's a sweet card Jason.

Sincerely, Clayton

[pgellis]

Interesting.

Out of 331 graded cards, I have:

(2) SC 350-460 Fact. 42
(5) SC 350-460 Fact. 42 Overprint

[Bridwell]

Out of 520 graded in my set:

Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 25: 13 cards
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 42: 5 cards
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac 42 overprint: 6 cards

[t206blogcom]

That's a sweet card Jason.

Thanks!

[t206blogcom]

Your Duffy has a wet sheet transfer also. Look above his bat or in the lower left corner (in the grass) with a loupe. ;)

Good eye, thanks!

[WillowGrove]

SC 150 fact 25 -

8/534


- FYI almost all my cards were acquired in the NJ/PA area.

[tedzan]

Ted, where are you??


OK Kevin, since you insist :)


My T206 collection comprises of approximately 2000 cards. It breaks down as follows........

Cards
------
519 ............ all - PIEDMONT set (missing Wagner, Plank & Doyle error)

444 ............ all - SOVEREIGN complete set of 402 different subjects ( + 42 added cards towards a master set)

467 ............ all - SWEET CAP, Factory #30 set (missing Wagner & Plank) ..... SOLD

34 .............. SWEET CAP, Factory #649 (ovpt) complete sub-set

56 .............. AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set (56/75)

35 .............. T206 backs sub-set (35/39)
------
1555 = Total


Therefore, the remaining 445+ cards have been randomly acquired. In this lot of T206 cards, there are only three
SWEET CAP 150, Factory #25 cards, these are:

Chase (pink)
McIntyre (Brooklyn)
Schulte (front view)


Furthermore, my SWEET CAP 460, Factory #42 cards = 5

And, my SWEET CAP 460, Factory #42 (ovpt) cards = 12


TED Z

[CMIZ5290]

ok kevin, since you insist :)


my t206 collection comprises of approximately 2000 cards. It breaks down as follows........

Cards
------
519 ............ All - piedmont set (missing wagner, plank & doyle error)

444 ............ All - sovereign complete set of 402 different subjects ( + 42 added cards towards a master set)

467 ............ All - sweet cap, factory #30 set (missing wagner & plank) ..... sold

34 .............. sweet cap, factory #649 (ovpt) complete sub-set

56 .............. american beauty 460 sub-set (56/75)

35 .............. t206 backs sub-set (35/39)
------
1555 = total


therefore, the remaining 445+ cards have been randomly acquired. In this lot of t206 cards, there are only three
sweet cap 150, factory #25 cards, these are:

Chase (pink)
mcintyre (brooklyn)
schulte (front view)


furthermore, my sweet cap 460, factory #42 cards = 5

and, my sweet cap 460, factory #42 (ovpt) cards = 12


ted z

ted- 3 out of almost 500....did you think that to be a tad surprising?

[tedzan]

ted- 3 out of almost 500....did you think that to be a tad surprising?

Initially, I was surprised to some extent. However, after I considered this some more, I'm not that surprised. And, I say this because in the past couple of years
I have sold (or traded) 100's of my SWEET CAP cards; therefore, there may have been quite a few more SWEET CAP 150 Factory #25 cards in my inventory.

Anyhow, so far I think the responses to your thread here have revealed to us how tough the SWEET CAP 150 Factory #25 cards really are.

Furthermore, if I recall correctly the majority of the SWEET CAP 150 Wagner's and Plank's are from Factory #30 (NYC).....not, Factory #25 (Richmond, VA).


TED Z

[BuffettFan]

FWIW, 14/630

(and 38 SC 150 FAC 30 in the same group...)

[Vegas-guy]

Of my 35 I found:
1 SC 350-460 fact. 42 w/scroll OP but also still shows Fact. 30 as well "Red Murray Port."
1 SC 350-460 fact. 42 (no OP) "Chick Gandil"

[CMIZ5290]

I think there has been some great feedback on this....i have come to the conclusion that this back is not 31st out of 38 backs in scarcity as most lists have it, but much higher. I also stand corrected on my original post, I have 8 total counting factory 30 as well. Final count in my collection is only 3 that are factory 25's!

[tedzan]

OK Kevin, since you insist :)


My T206 collection comprises of approximately 2000 cards. It breaks down as follows........

Cards
------
519 ............ all - PIEDMONT set (missing Wagner, Plank & Doyle error)

444 ............ all - SOVEREIGN complete set of 402 different subjects ( + 42 added cards towards a master set)

467 ............ all - SWEET CAP, Factory #30 set (missing Wagner & Plank) ..... SOLD

34 .............. SWEET CAP, Factory #649 (ovpt) complete sub-set

56 .............. AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set (56/75)

35 .............. T206 backs sub-set (35/39)
------
1555 = Total


Therefore, the remaining 445+ cards have been randomly acquired. In this lot of T206 cards, there are only three
SWEET CAP 150, Factory #25 cards, these are:

Chase (pink)
McIntyre (Brooklyn)
Schulte (front view)


Furthermore, my SWEET CAP 460, Factory #42 cards = 5

And, my SWEET CAP 460, Factory #42 (ovpt) cards = 12


TED Z


Kevin

I found another batch of T206's in my desk; and, it yielded 4 more SWEET CAP 150, Factory 25 cards.

So, I have a total of 7 cards......

Chase (pink)
Chase (white cap)
Delehanty (Washington)
Herzog New York)
McIntyre (Brooklyn)
Nicholls (hands at knees)
Schulte (front view)


TED Z

[rsst206]

Hi Kevin,
I don't post that often. But interesting observation.
I will check set tonight but going thru 100 or so upgrades I have found

Marquard(hands at Thighs)
Joe Lake N.Y.
Overall portrait
Tom Jones

best regards
Ron

[CMIZ5290]

kevin

i found another batch of t206's in my desk; and, it yielded 4 more sweet cap 150, factory 25 cards.

So, i have a total of 7 cards......

Chase (pink)
chase (white cap)
delehanty (washington)
herzog new york)
mcintyre (brooklyn)
nicholls (hands at knees)
schulte (front view)


ted z
ted- that's interesting, one of my three is chase (pink) in a psa 7.....

[DeanH3]

I don't have very many T206's but I do have 1 SC 150/25, a Cobb bat on SGC 5.5.

[CMIZ5290]

Dean- any interest in selling the cobb?

[tedzan]

ted- that's interesting, one of my three is chase (pink) in a psa 7.....


My SC 150/25 Chase isn't a grade 7 .....however, it's the nicest one of the 5 cards I have of him.


http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/at206pinkchase5.jpg
.................................................. ......../\
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/bt206pinkchase5.jpg


TED Z

[CMIZ5290]

my sc 150/25 chase isn't a grade 7 .....however, it's the nicest one of the 5 cards i have of him.


http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/at206pinkchase5.jpg
.................................................. ......../\
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/bt206pinkchase5.jpg


ted z

i agree, very sharp looking!

[William Todd]

I have checked my 275+ T206 cards and I have 36 different Sweet Cap 150 series Factory 25 Virginia cards. I think that this is due to the fact I was able to buy about 220 of these from a lady whose uncle collected them and only smoked Sweet Caporal cigarettes. He kept them in an album and the fronts are beautiful. Also, I am trying to do a Sweet Cap set where possible my second time finishing the 520 cards. Of the 275 I may only have 10 that aren't Sweet Cap backs and thats why this number may be high.