I was the victim of shill bidding on ebay!

[bh3443]

After reading many threads here about this subject and the subjects of auctions, it finally happened to me!
So, now what should I do? Buy the 2 cards and move on? Report this to ebay? Don't buy the cards?
The total is about 25$, but man, what a bad taste this scam left in me!
I love ebay, but I'm not happy.
I saw 2 cards I liked and entered my max bids. With less than 30 minutes in the auctions, the same bidder kept upping the bid until I get notices he outbid me. Seconds later, I get two letters from Ebay saying I'm still the high bidder because this buyer retracted both bids! After driving me towards my max, he then says he bid the wrong amount!
Now, according to this bidder and sellers history, it happens a lot! Same two guys. The buyer has a feedback of 1, yet has 27 bids and 15 retractions!

So, my dear friends on Net 54, what do you recommend I do?
Thanks for your help.
Bill Hedin

[drc]

Give him negative feedback saying that he shills.

[glchen]

I thought you could not retract bids on the last day of the auction. If it were me, I would not pay.

[Pup6913]

Give him negative feedback saying that he shills.

+1

[Tcards-Please]

Bill,

Sorry this happened to you. I would report it to ebay, not pay and leave him a negative. Can you give the seller's id so that I can can put him on my block list?

r/
Frank

[bh3443]

Thank you, Gentlemen, for your comments and advise.
I thought I'd add that once I looked into this, it was easy to follow the trail of the relationship of the fake bidder and seller.
I agree, and even though I want the cards, I won't buy them because I don't want any cards in my collection I'm making for our grand-children to have a stench about them!
So, I won't be buying them and I'll leave factual feedback about the shill.
I'll stick to the nice guys on ebay and here that I know and have dealt with.
Have a great Sunday, all!
Your Friend,
Bill Hedin

[bh3443]

Well, instead of adjusting the 3.50 for each of the 2 cards, the guy gives me free shipping after I questioned the shill!
This is crazy....lol.....

[Jay Wolt]

Bill that stinks!
Who is the seller?
And you may want to use a sniping service, this way no one can bid up to your max bid, since there wouldn't be time to do so.
My snipes are set to go off w/ 2 seconds remaining in the auction.

[rainier2004]

I thought you could not retract bids on the last day of the auction. If it were me, I would not pay.

Gary, I thought the rule currently was one could not retract w/in the last 4 hours aof the auction as I looked this up a few weeks ago...but alas, the rule has changed and a bid can now be retracted within the last seconds if the bidders chooses.
"If you meet any of the above conditions, consult the following table to determine if you meet the time restrictions for retracting the bid.

Time restrictions for retracting a bid

Listing ends in more than 12 hours
Yes

When you retract the bid, we remove all bids you placed on the item. If you are correcting a bidding error, you must bid again.

Listing ends in less than 12 hours
Yes, but only if you retract the bid within one hour of placing it
When you retract the bid, we remove only your most recent bid. Bids you placed prior to the last 12 hours of the listing are not removed."

http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/bid-retract.html#cond

Nothing like continually changing policies until they fit an agenda. Why wouldn'y every dishanest seller do this? This is one stupid rule!

Steven Suckow

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's a lousy rule but there is an easy answer -- snipe.

[BlueDevil89]

If you believe that you have been a victim of shill bidding, you should report the incident to eBay. An eBay representative will likely contact you to understand why you think the seller was involved in shill bidding during the auction. They will then evaluate your case. If eBay agrees that there is evidence of shill bidding, they will offer you the option of either completing the transaction (if you wish to do so) or not paying for the card(s). You will not be penalized if you opt to not pay for the transaction.

Due to privacy reasons, eBay won't tell you what happens to the seller next. However, if you see the seller's account suspended within the next 24 hours, you'll have your answer. Also, eBay cooperates with authorities and turns over evidence of such cases to the proper jurisdiction when appropriate, as the practice is a crime.

In order to protect the eBay community and fellow collectors, it is important to report instances of shill bidding, to weed out those engaging in this practice.

[jimross]

I was a "victim" one time from a big auction house too since that was my first time bidding in their auction and didn't know they were allow to bid up their own auction. I got no where to complain or leave any neg feedback.
:(

[Exhibitman]

I was a "victim" one time from a big auction house too since that was my first time bidding in their auction and didn't know they were allow to bid up their own auction. I got no where to complain or leave any neg feedback.
:(

If the AH rules stated they could bid in their auction you had fair notice of the potential for a house bid and I don't think you have anything to complain about. Shilling on Ebay is against Ebay rules. It is the difference between having your car repo'd and having it stolen. Same outcome, but one is legit.

[3-2-count]

Who is the seller?


Yes. Let the rest of us know Bill, please.

[Rob D.]

Bill,

I am sorry this happened to you. Perhaps you could talk with the folks on Net54 who think that as long as they don't pay more than their maximum bid, all is well. Maybe they will explain why you shouldn't feel badly about this transaction.

Best of luck.

[bh3443]

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 167
Items bid on: 39
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 92%
Bid retractions: 15
Bid retractions (6 months): 15
Here's the shill guy. 15 retractions!!!!!!! 92% with this seller?
The seller is, geeze, a member here, I think.........
Man, this is getting depressing!
Well, I'll stick to buying from my pal's like Jay at Quality and the rest of the guys here and ebay.
Seriously, what do you make of the info above?

[D. Bergin]

Gary, I thought the rule currently was one could not retract w/in the last 4 hours aof the auction as I looked this up a few weeks ago...but alas, the rule has changed and a bid can now be retracted within the last seconds if the bidders chooses.
"If you meet any of the above conditions, consult the following table to determine if you meet the time restrictions for retracting the bid.

Time restrictions for retracting a bid

Listing ends in more than 12 hours
Yes

When you retract the bid, we remove all bids you placed on the item. If you are correcting a bidding error, you must bid again.

Listing ends in less than 12 hours
Yes, but only if you retract the bid within one hour of placing it
When you retract the bid, we remove only your most recent bid. Bids you placed prior to the last 12 hours of the listing are not removed."

http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/bid-retract.html#cond

Nothing like continually changing policies until they fit an agenda. Why wouldn'y every dishanest seller do this? This is one stupid rule!

Steven Suckow


Ridiculous!

Ebay needs to clamp down on habitual retracting.

Only reasons for it, is to shill an auction or interfere with an auction.

Instead they open the Pandora's box. God forbid we put any kind of restriction on "BIDDING" activities, no matter how nonsensical it is.

:mad:

[bh3443]

Thanks for everyone's kind words and input. I'm a big boy and will get over it.
For some reason, I'm surprised at how boldly this was done!
IIt just leaves a creepy feeling!

[D. Bergin]

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 167
Items bid on: 39
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 92%
Bid retractions: 15
Bid retractions (6 months): 15
Here's the shill guy. 15 retractions!!!!!!! 92% with this seller?
The seller is, geeze, a member here, I think.........
Man, this is getting depressing!
Well, I'll stick to buying from my pal's like Jay at Quality and the rest of the guys here and ebay.
Seriously, what do you make of the info above?


Some people throw the word "shilling" around in cases where it doesn't fit at all.

I think you have about as strong a case as I've seen, Bill.

It's always possible the shiller was interfering with the sellers auctions as a goof (a rising trend on ebay), but if he was doing it that many times, the seller should have caught on and blocked him long ago.

[chaddurbin]

Bill,

I am sorry this happened to you. Perhaps you could talk with the folks on Net54 who think that as long as they don't pay more than their maximum bid, all is well. Maybe they will explain why you shouldn't feel badly about this transaction.

Best of luck.

+1. if you sweat about small issues like shilling you won't enjoy the hobby as much.

[jimross]

If the AH rules stated they could bid in their auction you had fair notice of the potential for a house bid and I don't think you have anything to complain about. Shilling on Ebay is against Ebay rules. It is the difference between having your car repo'd and having it stolen. Same outcome, but one is legit.

Yup, I know. That's why I still paid in full and only treat that as my "lesson learnt".

[BlueDevil89]

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 167
Items bid on: 39
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 92%
Bid retractions: 15
Bid retractions (6 months): 15
Here's the shill guy. 15 retractions!!!!!!! 92% with this seller?
The seller is, geeze, a member here, I think.........
Man, this is getting depressing!
Well, I'll stick to buying from my pal's like Jay at Quality and the rest of the guys here and ebay.
Seriously, what do you make of the info above?

Bill ---With the information above, your case with eBay is a lock. If you contact eBay to complain, not only will they cancel your transaction at your request, but they will also suspend the account of this seller. It will be an open and shut matter.

Do the community a favor and report the incident to eBay so other collectors don't get burned by this seller in the future.

[Tcards-Please]

The (alleged) shill bidder has done a fantastic job of raising the prices of ALL the seller's cards that ended within the past 24hrs and the seller seems to be getting the max amount from legitimate, unsuspecting buyers.

I certainly wouldn't be bidding on any of the seller's items.

added: the "alleged" shill bidder also bids on other items from this seller like: ladies golf clubs and men's wristwatch.

r/
Frank

[CW]

So is the seller's name "geeze" :D , or has that information not been shared yet for some reason??? Who is the seller?

[Jantz]

Bill

Sorry to hear this happened to you.

The dollar amount shouldn't matter.

Report the seller.

If it were me, I would also put their alter-bidding account name in the negative feedback reply that I left for them on Ebay.

Hope this ends well for you.


Jantz

[Big Ben]

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 167
Items bid on: 39
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 92%
Bid retractions: 15
Bid retractions (6 months): 15
Here's the shill guy. 15 retractions!!!!!!! 92% with this seller?
The seller is, geeze, a member here, I think.........
Man, this is getting depressing!
Well, I'll stick to buying from my pal's like Jay at Quality and the rest of the guys here and ebay.
Seriously, what do you make of the info above?

Crikey, that has to be one of the more blatant case of shill bidding that I have seen in a while. Report the seller to Ebay and snipe your purchases in the future!

[jbbama]

I see it all the time, mainly with higher dollar cards with many bids/bidders ...ebay could care less. They just want their fees.

[tiger8mush]

So is the seller's name "geeze" :D , or has that information not been shared yet for some reason??? Who is the seller?

+1, tell us who the seller is!

[buymycards]

The new rules also won't allow you to leave negative feedback until 7 days after the auction closes. This policy allows time for you and the seller to work it out.

Another great policy by ebay. By the 7th day the seller can file a NPB against you and you won't be able to leave a negative.

Rick

[Pup6913]

So is the seller's name "geeze" :D , or has that information not been shared yet for some reason??? Who is the seller?

+2. At this point I could care less anymore. Simply due to the fact that the sellers name/eBay id has not been given to protect the rest of us. I'm sorry you got shilled but protecting the sellers id is the same as saying its ok IMO. Bill we all think very highly of you and respect you greatly. If this guy is a board member we definitely have the right to know. Man the pitchforks and torches boys!!!!! Lmao. Always wanted to say that. Lol

[egbeachley]

The underbidder is similar to the profile of verklempt123

[bh3443]

Well, it's over and the transactions are cancelled.
Check out seller
1098shawn

This left a nasty feeling with me, and from now on, SCREW AUCTIONS!
It's buy it now on ebay or the BST here! I'm too old for these games.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Regards,
Bill

PS: This really happened, right? It's not my medicine making me paranoid, lol!

[ethicsprof]

glad to hear that it's over.
i do appreciate your forewarning the rest of us.

And i do hope you are doing well!
all the best,
barry

[steve B]

I've had a couple times where what looked like shilling turned out to not be shilling at all.

I don't think this is one of those. I was on the fence because his bidding fit a pattern that seemed more like inexperience or gaming the syatem by using retractions to find the current high bidders maximum. Lots of bids on the ungraded cards, fewer on the graded, and more on certain years. That seemed more like a collector unfamiliar with bidding.

Then I saw the bidding on the watch. Same bid up then retract. That ckinched it for me. If he was just a collector new at bidding he'd have stuck to the cards.

Steve B

[Deertick]

I'm curious. Why would you give a seller who shilled you positive feedback?

[CW]

Thanks for the info, Bill.

For that one bad experience with auctions, you might also have 10 great purchases that go without a hitch. As mentioned already, you might try a snipe service like http://www.gavelsnipe.com

[HRBAKER]

Bill, I am glad you got satisfaction here.
The truth is that we are all (probably) regular victims of shill bidding on ebay. Most are not quite as obvious as this seems to be.

[Matthew H]

Thanks for the info, Bill.

For that one bad experience with auctions, you might also have 10 great purchases that go without a hitch. As mentioned already, you might try a snipe service like http://www.gavelsnipe.com

+1 Bill, get Gavelsnipe and don't give up on auctions yet!

[atx840]

Won a card tonight from Probstein and noticed this bidder. Not overly worried on the final price as I'm okay with the result, just not sure what to think of this one.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated

Bidder Information
Bidder: s***s( 272)
Feedback: 100%Positive
Item description: T206 Eddie Ed Phelps St Louis Sovereign 350 BVG 5 EX
Bids on this item: 5

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 1337
Items bid on: 600
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 93%
Bid retractions: 3
Bid retractions (6 months): 40

[HRBAKER]

Appears to be a fairly loyal customer with a penchant for bid retractions.

[atx840]

Was thinking maybe a fan as he tends to have great cards. Thanks!

[Leon]

Was thinking maybe a fan as he tends to have great cards. Thanks!

40 bid retractions gives me a lot of pause. Ask yourself how many you have ever retracted?

[HRBAKER]

40 bid retractions gives me a lot of pause. Ask yourself how many you have ever retracted?

Yep, I forgot to use the sarcasm font. In 13 years on ebay I can't remember a single bid retraction.

[atx840]

Never have either, still suspicious but appreciate the input.

[Leon]

Yep, I forgot to use the sarcasm font. In 13 years on ebay I can't remember a single bid retraction.

Me too. Been there, I think 13 1/2 yrs, and can't remember one though I could be forgetting. This seems to be a reoccurring problem with the large ebay sellers. Same thing happened to Wonka the other night. I hooked him up with that large ebay sellers owner so they could chat about it. That bidder had something like 22 retractions in the last month and seemed to be running John up. Maybe they were safety bids that were no longer needed?

[jbbama]

This is becoming an all to common occurrence on Ebay, i questioned a seller recently, i was confronted with threats of legal action.

[calvindog]

What's the problem? 93% of the bidder's business is with this seller? And 40 bid retractions in the past 6 months? Let me guess: the seller gets really high prices for his cards too.

Gee, that's a head scratcher. Let me go ask Ray Charles. Yup, he said he could see the problem with this seller too.

[Matthew H]

You guys are being unfair, how do you know these weren't "safety bids" by a consignor? :rolleyes:

[Peter_Spaeth]

if you place a snipe with 5 seconds to go, it's going to be a tad hard for someone to run you up, top you, and retract.

[Leon]

You guys are being unfair, how do you know these weren't "safety bids" by a consignor? :rolleyes:

No shi*. That is what we are talking about. It is possibly the consignor or a friend/associate of a consignor. And the fact that, it seems, some sellers overlook these kinds of shenanigans is what is alarming, or actually, that they happen at all. I am not saying it's the sellers fault to start with. No one can control bids, for the most part. (well, sort of)

[Leon]

if you place a snipe with 5 seconds to go, it's going to be a tad hard for someone to run you up, top you, and retract.

Explain all of the retractions then. Who knows why but it's happening. I can only surmise that the GREAT VOLUME of retractions is not for good and legitimate reasons. Either that or all of these bidders are really stupid. (and that is not the case, imo)

BTW, I believe some of these retractions are to see how high the max bids are at...and once found out the bidder retracts the bid.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Leon, sorry if I wasn't clear, my point is that if you bid only by snipe, they can't do it to you.

[Leon]

Leon, sorry if I wasn't clear, my point is that if you bid only by snipe, they can't do it to you.

I understand that Peter. If I really want a card on ebay I snipe close to 100% of the time. But the fact remains that bidders are getting run up and then bids are retracted. That is not good. Ask Wonka how he felt the other night.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I understand that Peter. If I really want a card on ebay I snipe close to 100% of the time. But the fact remains that bidders are getting run up and then bids are retracted. That is not good. Ask Wonka how he felt the other night.

If that's the state of the world, one has to be proactive. Use a sniping service. It's a much easier fix than confronting sellers who aren't going to do anything about it or confronting ebay who isn't going to do anything about it.

Ebay is useless. The other night I asked a guy why, if a card (modern but a condition sensitive one) was as nice as the one he had pictured, he hadn't graded it. He wrote back that it was a stock photo. I called ebay and informed them, and of course they could see his message to me. They did nothing.

[Leon]

If that's the state of the world, one has to be proactive. Use a sniping service. It's a much easier fix than confronting sellers who aren't going to do anything about it or confronting ebay who isn't going to do anything about it.

Ebay is useless. The other night I asked a guy why, if a card (modern but a condition sensitive one) was as nice as the one he had pictured, he hadn't graded it. He wrote back that it was a stock photo. I called ebay and informed them, and of course they could see his message to me. They did nothing.

If I make a mistake and leave my keys in my car I don't expect it to be stolen. Of course, as stated, I am proactive and snipe all of the time. Others don't use a sniping service so they should be defrauded? Sweet.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Leon you are misstaing my position and you know it. I am not saying it's OK for anyone to defraud anyone. I am saying that the reality is that it's going to happen on ebay and there isn't much that can be done to stop it, but that the good news is that from the buyer's perspective it is easy enough to avoid being defrauded.

[Leon]

Leon you are misstaing my position and you know it. I am not saying it's OK for anyone to defraud anyone. I am saying that the reality is that it's going to happen on ebay and there isn't much that can be done to stop it, but that the good news is that from the buyer's perspective it is easy enough to avoid being defrauded.

I know Peter :) .....I was just being a forum member the way I get it. :) It's sort of fun feeding the monkeys, so to say. Now I know why people rag on me all of the time...it's amusing. I was just messing with ya'.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Lol.

[smtjoy]

The scary thing to me is knowing how and why the retractions are used, then consider his 1200 other bids to the same sellers this month, ..........ouch

[atx840]

a***x( 146) $114.50
****g( 1166) $112.00
3***b( 310) $88.57
m***f( 908) $72.00
s***s( 272) $71.22
m***f( 908) $68.00
s***s( 272) $68.00
l***l( 465) $64.50
m***f( 908) $63.00
e***s( 6669) $60.00
w***d( 154) $58.58
a***h( 496) $46.00
a***h( 496) $41.00
s***s( 272) $28.88
b***b( 7412) $22.00
7***i( 1225) $16.00
s***s( 272) $12.88
s***s( 272) $8.22
****g( 1166) $4.05

[Matthew H]

No shi*. That is what we are talking about. It is possibly the consignor or a friend/associate of a consignor. And the fact that, it seems, some sellers overlook these kinds of shenanigans is what is alarming, or actually, that they happen at all. I am not saying it's the sellers fault to start with. No one can control bids, for the most part. (well, sort of)

I know that's what you guys were talking about. I was being an a$$. We all have to be careful when buying from eBay consignment sellers. I bought a couple cards from Probstein lately and was very careful with how I bid.

Not every buyer on eBay has a set price they plan on. When I was new to eBay I based my bid on how the item was doing on the last day, I didn't know any better and didn't consider much about patience and paying the right amount. Most of all, I didn't consider that someone could be shilling... I was new to auctions.

I don't care if all shill bids happen in first hour hour, it's still shilling.
Probstein can't watch every bid. But I think he'd know when he's sending the card and consignors check to the same address... Just sayin'... I'm sure it happens.

[howard38]

/

[peterose4hof]

What other large Ebay sellers might (allegedly) fit into this debate besides Probstein? I know the name BigBoydSportscards3 has come up a lot. Anyone else?

[seablaster]

Even with a snipe a buyer can end up paying more because of a shiller as long as there are other bidders that are not using a service. If an underbidder's gets shilled to his max bid then someone who won with a snipe likely paid more than he would or should have.

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning here.

It doesn't matter if the underbidder gets shilled to their maximum because their maximum still would have been exceeded by the winning bidder anyway.

[Deertick]

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning here.

It doesn't matter if the underbidder gets shilled to their maximum because their maximum still would have been exceeded by the winning bidder anyway.

I believe the point is Why should you be happy with paying the maximum? Haven't you ever been to a live auction? If my *max* on an item is $500, I don't scream out "$500!". The bids increment, and depending on who's there, I may be the winner at $450. Or $100. That is what an auction is. If you were shilled up to your max bid, someone stole your money, just as sure as if they swiped it from your wallet.

[HRBAKER]

If the underbids that you "outsnipe" have been driven up prior by a shill doesn't it still affect the final price you pay in a negative way?

[steve B]

If the underbids that you "outsnipe" have been driven up prior by a shill doesn't it still affect the final price you pay in a negative way?

Not always.

If I place a snipe for say $100 set for 5 seconds from the item ending, and you have a max of $80 that you bid 3 days before I'll still win for one increment over $80 even if someone shills you to exactly $80. In that sort of scenario there's essentially no difference shilled or unshilled. (The shilling still happened, and was still wrong, but had no effect on the final price.)

It could affect the final price if for instance I have the same snipe for $100 you bid $80 two days earlier and the shiller bids say $85. In that case yes, shilling happened and affected the final price for the buyer.

It might also happen if I'm basing my bid on the current bids- In other words a more competetive bidding method
Sensible bidding =You figure a price you'd pay for the card based on the card itself, bid that price and no higher.
Competetive bidding= Figure that since it;s already $80 and I want it so I'll bid $100 even though $80 is retail or above.

The first combined with sniping limits the potential for shilling.
The second leaves a lot of room for the shiller to work.

Steve B

[HRBAKER]

Steve,

If the opener is $4.99 and a legitimate bidder puts a proxy bid in of $65 and is the only legitimate bidder but is driven to say $50+ by a series of "shill" bids and then I snipe and win it for say $55 - I would say my price was adversely affected by a shill even though I sniped.

Extreme example I know.

[howard38]

.

[seablaster]

Steve is correct.

In the original scenario that Howard presented, both the winning bidder and the underbidder were legitimate bidders. If the underbidder had a maximum bid of say $500, it doesn't matter if a shiller bids him up to that amount IF another legitimate bidder comes in with a bid greater than $500.

I by no means think shilling or safety bids are acceptable. What I would like to know is what we could do in regard to these bid retractors. No one can give a reasonable explanation for 40 bid retractions in 6 months. Is there any recourse through eBay or do they really just not care? :confused:

[HRBAKER]

Yep,
That's right now thinking about it.
The final price would be one increment above the high of the "other" legitimate bidder.

[seablaster]

If the underbidder doesn't know there is a sniper and no one is shilling he might stop his bid at say $10 even though he's willing to go higher if necessary. If he is shilled it then becomes necessary to keep bidding if he wants to win and therefore bids as high as $20. If a snipe has been set at $21 and no one else bids then the sniper has paid about $10 more than he should have.

I see where you are coming from Howard. I guess at this point I am working under the assumption that most bidders are savvy and experienced; they know their maximum bid well in advance of the auction end.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Steve,

If the opener is $4.99 and a legitimate bidder puts a proxy bid in of $65 and is the only legitimate bidder but is driven to say $50+ by a series of "shill" bids and then I snipe and win it for say $55 - I would say my price was adversely affected by a shill even though I sniped.

Extreme example I know.

How do you win it for 55 if another bidder has a 65 max?

[WhenItWasAHobby]

How do you win it for 55 if another bidder has a 65 max?

That's easy Peter. According to the Shill Bidder's Handbook, Chapter 5, Paragraph 6, it states, "If your shill bid wins, send the second highest bidder 'a second chance offer' and use the excuse that the winning bidder just died, fell into a terminal coma or his account was hacked, or some other lame excuse. If the second bidder declines, re-list the item with an opening bid for the same amount the second highest bidder placed his bid in the previous auction."

[celoknob]

Is there any recourse through eBay or do they really just not care? :confused:

No, they really do not care. Obviously, if they were really interested in the intregrity of their auctions there is no way they would allow someone with 40 retractions to continue.

I was really surprised when I first realized this about a year ago but have now accepted that this type of corruption is part of ebay. Fortunately I feel it has only affected a few percent of my auctions, buying or selling. Still, it makes ebay less fun when you know avoidable corruption is an accepted part of the system.

[Peter_Spaeth]

They don't care. I went through this with them when carterscards was blatantly using a one feedback shill to run up his cards. The guy on the phone agreed with me that it was obvious, and promised to do something about it, but never did.

[smtjoy]

What other large Ebay sellers might (allegedly) fit into this debate besides Probstein? I know the name BigBoydSportscards3 has come up a lot. Anyone else?

I keep an eye on all of them, I like to check VCP prior to bidding, you would be surprised how many times the same item is for sale again from the same consignor or another consignor (like it was last sold by Probstein123 and now its for auction with PWCC), big red flags and I avoid bidding. The thing about the consignors is they do provide a good service for those wanting to sell with little to no experience or those just not wanting to deal with it and a lot of them are honest and do not shill their auctions.

But the BIG issue imo is its the perfect cover for any dishonest seller and if most of the consignors turn a blind eye when a consignee wins their own item, rumor has it some just charge their fee and relist or return (as long as its a client sending lots of cards you get a pass).

Also I check the bidding after I do win something from one of them and I look for the bidding % and the retractions is a huge sign something funky is going on. Its really cut down on my bidding on ebay for over a year now, sad but right now I think I am getting better deals as a buyer thru AH's then consignors sales on ebay. I do think the feds have had an effect on the AH's and they are all for the most part playing it safe.

[steve B]

Steve,

If the opener is $4.99 and a legitimate bidder puts a proxy bid in of $65 and is the only legitimate bidder but is driven to say $50+ by a series of "shill" bids and then I snipe and win it for say $55 - I would say my price was adversely affected by a shill even though I sniped.

Extreme example I know.

That's not how the proxy bid works. If a legit bidder places a $65 proxy you can't win it for $55. The bider who bid $65 would win for 55+one increment.

Steve B

[HRBAKER]

Steve,
See post #71, I corrected myself. You are right.
Thanks, Jeff

[steve B]

I've been trying to think of a way a large volume seller could monitor their auctions or proactively discourage shilling without resorting to measures that would turn off nearly all their consignors.

Automating a system to catch the obvious ones afterward isn't hard. And should probably be done. Not much in prevention, but at 10K auctions a month it's entirely possible that the person writing the checks and the person shipping the item aren't the same person. And probably aren't checking for problems.

I think that they might discourage some of the more blatant shills by stating the ebay name of the consignor if there is one. That would eliminate the obvious since the person wouldn't want to shill if the info was plainly available.

Someone more subtle would probably be hard to catch. It's a pretty trivial thing to ask a friend to bid on an item. I've never sone it as a shill, but I have had friends snipe stuff for me while I was on vacation, and have bought stuff for a friend who has a bad enough relationship with one seller that if he bids the seller pulls the item or makes up a reason not to ship it.

I just can't think of any way to track that.

I've also had at least one experience where it really looked like shilling. Nearly unique item, I was the underbidder and got a second chance offer within 5 minutes of the end. The winner had less than 20 feedback and 100% with that seller. I passed on the second chance offer and eventually won the second of the two items which was actually nicer for less about a month later. (1948 US olympic cycling team jersey - race worn, and from the son of the racer who himself raced in 64)

I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it. But then, most of my purchases are under $100, usually way under. And often under $10. Not much there for a shiller.

Steve B

[atx840]

This guy sure has a broad interest in bb cards. Recent bidding activity by randomly checking Probstein auctions :rolleyes:

2012 Bowman Chrome Prospects Superfractor Joc Pederson RC AUTO 1/1 BGS 9.5 w/ 10
1933 Goudey #154 Jimmy Foxx Philadelphia Athletics HOF SGC 80 EX-NM 6
1969 Topps #533 Nolan Ryan Mets HOF PSA 8 NM-MT
2009 Upper Deck Goodwin Champions Baseball Hobby Box Factory Sealed
1956 Topps Gray Back #106 Joe Astroth Kansas City Athletics PSA 8 NM-MT
T206 Newt Randall Milwaukee Polar Bear RARE Back BVG 6 EX-MT
1955 Red Man #NL7 Willie Mays HOF New York Giants BVG 8 NM-MT POP 1 , LOW POP
1973 Topps #220 Nolan Ryan California Angel HOF PSA 8 NM-MT OC