Wagner graded sgc A already at $180K!! WOW!!

[CMIZ5290]

If someone else has already started a thread on this, i apologize, because i did not see it. As long as i have been collecting t206's, i can honestly say that even this overwhelms me. This card is in bill's auction and is rapidly approaching $200k. I wish i could figure out how to post scans from the auction site to this thread, but i am clueless on such things. This just absolutely blows me away......

[Matthew H]

How some people spend their money.......

[CMIZ5290]

Boy i wish someone would post a scan....this is just amazing to me!

[peterose4hof]

Link...

http://goodwinandco.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=24702&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=1&seo=1909-Sweet-Caporal-T206-Honus-Wagner-SGC-Authentic


Pictures...

http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s393/peterose4hof/T206WagnerA.jpg

http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s393/peterose4hof/T206WagnerA2.jpg

[CMIZ5290]

How can they even tell it's a grade of A? There's hardly any card left!

[Deertick]

At least they are calling it trimmed.

[oldjudge]

Cut it in half, each side will still get the scarlet letter and each will go for $100,000 plus. At least the Wagner is scarce relative to other T206s. The M101-4 Ruth is common relative to other M101-4s and it goes for stupid prices also. The Wagner market will probably hold its value a lot better than the M101-4 Ruth market. Those prices will correct in a big way at some point.
Also, the Morehouse Baking Thorpe is not unique. I have heard that at least one nicer one exists.

[CMIZ5290]

A ton of money!

[CMIZ5290]

cut it in half, each side will still get the scarlet letter and each will go for $100,000 plus. At least the wagner is scarce relative to other t206s. The m101-4 ruth is common relative to other m101-4s and it goes for stupid prices also. The wagner market will probably hold its value a lot better than the m101-4 ruth market. Those prices will correct in a big way at some point.
Also, the morehouse baking thorpe is not unique. I have heard that at least one nicer one exists.

+1

[Runscott]

Edited: erroneous statement. See Kevin's quote for my original post.

[CMIZ5290]

they are playing up the idea that it can be 'rebuilt' and then get good money, but it does seem crazy.

scott- not sure what you mean.....

[abothebear]

the color is nice.

[GasHouseGang]

They seem to be playing up more of what a good investment the card is. Part of the listing:

Ever since the infamous 1985 T206 Wagner $25,000 purchase from a Long Island New York sports card shop, the T206 Wagner subject has revolutionized the baseball card market. What that simple purchase some 27 years ago accomplished was to place the baseball card hobby on the map with collectibles such as fine art, coins and stamps, just to name a few of the prestigious collecting angles. Not surprisingly, that supreme PSA 8 Wagner last sold for $2.8 Million, a far cry versus its original $25,000 price tag and a resounding exclamation point to the unlimited potential of any quintessential T206 Honus Wagner subject. As virtually the entire hobby is aware of, Goodwin & Company recently sold a “VG” specimen for a lofty $1,232K, a true testament to the continued resounding climb of the exalted T206 Wagner. Considering a “VG” example sold for $145K back in calendar year 2000, the nearly unparalleled investment growth of a T206 Honus Wagner is quite obvious, with our recent April 2012 sale depicting an incredible value increase of approximately “9 times” the specimen sold 12 years ago or more significantly, a 19.5% Compound Annual Growth Rate! Likewise, following the same path as a “VG” specimen are the highest recorded annual sales of “Authentic” examples from 2009 thru 2011 (no “Authentic” T206 Wagner’s have been sold in 2012). Whether you are a serious hobby enthusiast painstakingly seeking a T206 Wagner relic or simply pursuing the most viable options for your sophisticated investment portfolio, the compound annual growth rate of this truly remarkable early 20th century baseball card knows no peers. To the best of our knowledge, NO individual has ever experienced a “value loss” with this card.

The card has escalated over the years, so they may be right about it being a good investment. I sure don't know, I invested in real estate!:)

[Paul S]

Topps should buy it and cut it up into little teeny weeny pieces like a game used lengendary HOFer bat or jersey and insert the pieces inside wax packs. Will promote their sales. Wouldn't it be joyous if a lot more people could own a piece of THE Wagner?

[Runscott]

scott- not sure what you mean.....

I was wrong. I thought I had read this in the Goodwin description, but obviously I read it somewhere else. The Goodwin description simply describes the big price that the other 'missing borders' card brought, but doesn't talk about further altering this one. My bad.

If I can find the original source of my comment, I'll post it - it described the trimmed card that was missing part of the back, which was rebuilt, drastically increasing the card's value.

[jimross]

The hammer price was actually under estimate. Estimate was $300k. It sold for a bargain :)

[CMIZ5290]

I still don't get it.....

[jimross]

Goodwin says even trimmed Auth T206 Wagner would go for $1M in 10 yrs... u still don't get it? :)

[gnaz01]

Goodwin says even trimmed Auth T206 Wagner would go for $1M in 10 yrs... u still don't get it? :)

It's all moot, isn't the world going to end December 21st, 2012?? :D:D

[sports-rings]

according to my records, the last "Authentic" Wagner to sell at auction, was in November 2010. It was auctioned off by heritage. With the buyer's premium, the card sold for $262,900.00. In my opinion the Goodwin card was in better shape and presented better.

There was a lot more media stories about the Heritage card than this time.

Do the readers here feel the market may have peaked for lower-end Wagner cards and the price of "Authentics" and PSA-1 Wagners are coming down?

Or is it a reflection on bigger auction houses with more resources achieving better results than smaller auction houses?

I had a few high end items in an auction house recently and was very disappointed with their marketing, and PR-work. They seemed to do very little effort in getting the word out about my items and other items in their auction. I believe the prices realized reflected their failures and lack of effort.

Was the lack of coverage outside our hobby a factor in this Wagner selling for so much less?

[glynparson]

according to my records, the last "Authentic" Wagner to sell at auction, was in November 2010. It was auctioned off by heritage. With the buyer's premium, the card sold for $262,900.00. In my opinion the Goodwin card was in better shape and presented better.

There was a lot more media stories about the Heritage card than this time.

Do the readers here feel the market may have peaked for lower-end Wagner cards and the price of "Authentics" and PSA-1 Wagners are coming down?

Or is it a reflection on bigger auction houses with more resources achieving better results than smaller auction houses?

I had a few high end items in an auction house recently and was very disappointed with their marketing, and PR-work. They seemed to do very little effort in getting the word out about my items and other items in their auction. I believe the prices realized reflected their failures and lack of effort.

Was the lack of coverage outside our hobby a factor in this Wagner selling for so much less?


No I think it was because the other ones proceeds were going to charity.

[jimross]

I would not compare HA with Goodwin. The hammer price for that nun Wagner was way too much and the original winner knows it after the "hyper" that's why he never paid for it. HA contacted a wealthy collector and he picked up the tap, I am pretty sure that wealthy collector thinks all the money from that nun Wagner sale would go for church renovation so it was kind of like a charity thing.

BTW, did i mention HA allows themselves to bid on their own auctions??

[rainier2004]

BTW, did i mention HA allows themselves to bid on their own auctions??

Im still getting accustomed to larger auctions houses, but is there a way to prove this? I dislike HA very much and have never received such poor customer service in 27 years collecting.

Steve Suckow

[btkpath]

I guess my take on the matter is a little different.

I think people might be a little skittish. When the Wagner PSA 8 sold for $3M, it dragged the price of other lesser Wagners up, which would be a normal response. I know that there has always been controversy regarding that card being trimmed (and that is not the point here), but with the recent indictments of Mastro and the potential involvement of PSA in the matter, I wonder if the price and "cache" of "The Card" will soften, thus having a softening effect on the price of all other Wagners. This is the first Wagner to sell since the recent allegations surfaced (I believe) against Mastro, PSA and "The Card". It will be interesting to see the price of the next Wagner that sells.

Just my opinion.

[jimross]

Steve,

It is stated on their auction disclaimer.... they are allow to bid up to the level such that the next (real bidder) bid would pass the reserve price.

It is not a rumor or myth.

[rainier2004]

It is stated on their auction disclaimer.... they are allow to bid up to the level such that the next (real bidder) bid would pass the reserve price.

That's horrible! I guess I missed that in my 1 and only auction...never even would have bid in the first place. This whole thread would be derailed if I asked my next question. Thanks, back to "The Card"...I am also curious as to what the next one well sell for.

[SetBuilder]

I'd pay to have the card restored and borders added from a donor T206 card.

The cardboard equivalent of a kidney donation.

[t206hound]

I'd pay to have the card restored and borders added from a donor T206 card.

The cardboard equivalent of a kidney donation.

I think you'd lose money on that endeavor:
http://robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2011/3.html

[FrankWakefield]

I once held that very card in the palm of my hand, sans any slab, holder, loader, sleeve, or anything... And when I held and beheld it, I too thought of sacrificing a good common card so its borders could be merged with that Wagner by one of the good reconstructionists. Not to scam anyone, and not because it might be worth more (it really isn't about the money with these old cards), but because it would result in a nice looking, presentable example of the icon of our little hobby.

[tbob]

I agree with Frank. I've seen how comic books which are restored and have great eye appeal sell for more than lower graded non-restored copies and I think the day is coming that we might see restored scarce and expensive cards which are graded authentic sell for more than PSA 1s and perhaps some 2s. I know a lot of collectors here will scoff at that but it is a possibility. Kevin S. has shown his handiwork at card restoration and it is amazing what he and others can do with the right card and the right tools.

[Jlighter]

I think you'd lose money on that endeavor:
http://robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2011/3.html


That card at REA was in worse condition before restoration then the Goodwin example.