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Exhibitman
08-20-2012, 06:49 AM
A screed/rant:

I am tired of the relentless negativity on this particular forum. This is the only section of the N54 site where I consistently go away feeling like abandoning my collecting. I am by no means a pollyannaish collector who advocates hiding one's head in the sand. There are definitely problems, big ones, in the autograph field, and exposing them is useful, but the consistent, almost gleeful, running down of the hobby that I see here is annoying to say the least. It seems that the forum has morphed into a [primarily] negative gripe space where the only things some posters want to talk about are frauds, fakes and scammers. I am not saying one must be a cheerleader for the hobby to post here, but I do believe that anyone whose feelings about the hobby are so strongly and consistently negative ought to quit and be done with it rather than constantly flogging the many dead horse topics that are repeated on this forum ad nausem.

That's all; resume whining.

earlywynnfan
08-20-2012, 07:30 AM
Don't forget the constant pissing match between a few key members. As soon as one guy posts, I count the seconds until another jumps in with some comment meant only to instigate. Thanks to these children, several important threads have recently been hopelessly derailed.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

bender07
08-20-2012, 07:55 AM
It's funny you mention this as I've had similar feelings lately. Most refreshed threads are negative in nature. I sorted the threads by views and the top 5 are all about counterfeits and the like. Maybe that can be translated to these are the type of discussions people like on this board? Don't know but I find it boring and don't participate.

I like the 'show off' threads of people's collections or discussions around their collecting focus. I also enjoy reading stories of years past. Not enough of those in my opinion.

ibuysportsephemera
08-20-2012, 08:04 AM
Don't forget the constant pissing match between a few key members. As soon as one guy posts, I count the seconds until another jumps in with some comment meant only to instigate. Thanks to these children, several important threads have recently been hopelessly derailed.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

+1. It is funny that in the real world these folks might be considered to be "smart or successful" people, yet when posting on Net54 they seem like petty malcontents.

Jeff

Julian Wells
08-20-2012, 08:15 AM
Even though I collect autographs, I don't even bother participating in any discussions under the autograph forum because of the reasons listed previously...and there are several topics I would love to participate and learn about.

I'm sure several collector's feel this way, and that's a real shame! This should be a forum to learn, enjoy and showcase prized collections freely without insults and demeaning behaviour.

Maybe the guilty parties can create their own forum so that they can sling their biased opinions and insults at each other...and then everyone else can get back to enjoying this forum in peace!

barrysloate
08-20-2012, 08:27 AM
The autograph people were already booted out of the memorabilia section for just that reason. Since they have their own forum I suppose they can do whatever they want. But no question there is a ton of arguing going on over here. They claim they love the autograph hobby, but you would never know it reading their posts.

MooseDog
08-20-2012, 08:38 AM
Good post and a point that needed to be made.

Many people lack civility these days. There is no discussion. My opinion or position is the right one, I don't have to listen to you or care what you have to say about it. Just look at politics. It's difficult to state an opinion on any matter without someone who has an opposite viewpoint to call the other an idiot, moron, or worse for thinking that way.

Reality TV tries to make everything in life a competition. Who would have ever thought that there would be trash talking on a TV cooking show?

Personally I tune out the negativity but yeah, it does seem to overwhelm around here at times. On the other hand, some of the information learned in some of those posts are things useful for the autograph collector to know.

Agree with the OP. Loved the Bill Zekus thread. Stinson's travelogs are fun reads thanks to his skill at writing about them. Pictures of cool collections or items are great to see. Exemplars of real rare signatures are educational.

I'm a dude from the "old days", and I don't mean the 1990s :)

If I can garner the courage maybe I'll try to write a few posts about how things were in back in the 1970s and 1980s. Talk about collectors who were real mentors to me like the late Dick Dobbins and Will Davis, others like Stan Marks, Steve Brunner and Hall of Famer Nick Peters (writers wing), fine gentlemen all.

Or trading in bulk with other guys. Send 100 3x5's get 100 (often more) 3x5's back.

Getting Mike Wheat's latest list and thinking $3.00 is way to much to pay for anyone's autograph, even Roger Maris.

The amazing generosity of Dr John Davis Jr.

Hanging out at the local hotels and the Oakland Coliseum when access to players was easy.

Jim Stinson's writing puts mine to shame but maybe someone will get something out of it.

Leon
08-20-2012, 08:41 AM
The autograph people were already booted out of the memorabilia section for just that reason. Since they have their own forum I suppose they can do whatever they want. But no question there is a ton of arguing going on over here. They claim they love the autograph hobby, but you would never know it reading their posts.

Do I hear a motion to create a sub-sub autograph forum? :)

In all seriousness, this forum was actually created because many of the memorabilia guys were getting inundated with the negative autograph threads. I don't know what the solution is but there does seem to be more angst and unhappiness in this forum than elsewhere on the board. This is also the forum where I read the least threads, partly due to my interests and partly due to my general dislike of negativity. And as Adam said, I am in no way saying bad things shouldn't be pointed out but it seems they should be tempered with equal amounts (or more) of "happy" threads. Just my take......as I continue the overall board mantra of "I don't tell people what to say or not to say." Happy collecting!!

Runscott
08-20-2012, 09:21 AM
The autograph people were already booted out of the memorabilia section for just that reason. Since they have their own forum I suppose they can do whatever they want. But no question there is a ton of arguing going on over here. They claim they love the autograph hobby, but you would never know it reading their posts.

I think it worked - the regular memorabilia forum has come back to life and is now much more interesting to visit.

MooseDog
08-20-2012, 09:27 AM
...there does seem to be more angst and unhappiness in this forum than elsewhere on the board...

Leon -

Could be the psychological nature of we autograph collectors. We are certainly a different breed of collector, In general:

- We get rejected a lot (and not just by players);

- We are sometimes victims of fraud (fakes, forgeries, clubhouse sigs);

- Card collectors don't respect us as "real" collectors (we deface cards);

- Professional sports has caught on to our cash cow and now want to charge us an arm and a leg to get an autograph in person or mail (hello, Steiner?).

- Third party authenticators (the "good" ones) have created an environment where we can't sell our collectibles for proper value without "their" approval (and a fat fee for merely an opinion!)

- Some of the things on our want lists simply do not exist.

Still, I have more angst and unhappiness from life itself. My collection has been fun and a great source of enjoyment over the years.

Runscott
08-20-2012, 09:40 AM
Leon -

Could be the psychological nature of we autograph collectors. We are certainly a different breed of collector, In general:

- We get rejected a lot (and not just by players);

- We are sometimes victims of fraud (fakes, forgeries, clubhouse sigs);

- Card collectors don't respect us as "real" collectors (we deface cards);

- Professional sports has caught on to our cash cow and now want to charge us an arm and a leg to get an autograph in person or mail (hello, Steiner?).

- Third party authenticators (the "good" ones) have created an environment where we can't sell our collectibles for proper value without "their" approval (and a fat fee for merely an opinion!)

- Some of the things on our want lists simply do not exist.

Still, I have more angst and unhappiness from life itself. My collection has been fun and a great source of enjoyment over the years.

Plus, you are often worried that your balls aren't even real

Fuddjcal
08-20-2012, 09:47 AM
A screed/rant:

I am tired of the relentless negativity on this particular forum. This is the only section of the N54 site where I consistently go away feeling like abandoning my collecting. I am by no means a pollyannaish collector who advocates hiding one's head in the sand. There are definitely problems, big ones, in the autograph field, and exposing them is useful, but the consistent, almost gleeful, running down of the hobby that I see here is annoying to say the least. It seems that the forum has morphed into a [primarily] negative gripe space where the only things some posters want to talk about are frauds, fakes and scammers. I am not saying one must be a cheerleader for the hobby to post here, but I do believe that anyone whose feelings about the hobby are so strongly and consistently negative ought to quit and be done with it rather than constantly flogging the many dead horse topics that are repeated on this forum ad nausem.

That's all; resume whining.

I did abandon the collecting because of it....the real hobby is following all the stupid B.S. here, there & everywhere. I still feel the need to share most of what I learned (not much) and I don't even know why I bother sometimes. I guess i just like to watch as the hobby circles the drain.

Exhibitman
08-20-2012, 10:53 AM
Do I hear a motion to create a sub-sub autograph forum? :)

In all seriousness, this forum was actually created because many of the memorabilia guys were getting inundated with the negative autograph threads. I don't know what the solution is but there does seem to be more angst and unhappiness in this forum than elsewhere on the board. This is also the forum where I read the least threads, partly due to my interests and partly due to my general dislike of negativity. And as Adam said, I am in no way saying bad things shouldn't be pointed out but it seems they should be tempered with equal amounts (or more) of "happy" threads. Just my take......as I continue the overall board mantra of "I don't tell people what to say or not to say." Happy collecting!!

That I did not know; makes sense, though. I have noticed that the memorabilia forum is 'funner' lately.

Here's a novel idea: let's just ignore the bummer threads and bummer posts--simply not respond. Let them wither away. Eventually the OPs will get tired of talking to themselves and stop.

packs
08-20-2012, 12:41 PM
I agree with the sentiments of this thread. It's really annoying when a select few posters decide they're going to start an argument. I don't think people are supposed to sling personal insults on this board. Yet in every other thread the same people are relentlessly insulting each other. Maybe we could get those posters off the autograph forum?

alexautographs
08-20-2012, 01:00 PM
Having just come back to this forum after an absence of a couple years, it seems everyone forgot the longest thread in history - the famous Morales-Frangipani epic of, I believe, 2010 or so. It helped fuel an FBI investigation that reaped great benefits and vindicated a fine dealer who had become a crook's victim.

Yes, there is an awful lot of mud-slinging here with people who have the same aim in the hobby attacking each other because they've aligned themselves with different "good guys". Who wins? Nobody....but the forgers.

Sure, the topic of frauds and forgers could be dropped entirely and the forum could become just "sweetness and light" - until the next giant fraud is exposed and everyone kicks themselves.

Maybe just a little more self-control and a little less needling is all that's really needed.

keithsky
08-20-2012, 01:06 PM
Maybe Leon can start another forum called Mudslinging forum so these guys that want to call each other names and cut each other down can do it without bringing the rest of us down with them. I think it would have about 3 members that come to mind right off the top of my head.

Keith

packs
08-20-2012, 01:32 PM
Nothing wrong with outing frauds. It's good for everyone to know who is selling fakes and what to stay away from. That's what I liked about the recent Drew Max thread. A board member carefully broke down what to look for in a baseball fabricated to look vintage.

However, in that thread certain board members also took the opportunity to relentlessly insult each other for another 4 or 5 pages, which is what, 50 posts? And by the time they put their rulers away the valuable information was buried.

There is such a thing as people doing more harm than good. Whenever I see a few posters in a thread I tend to avoid it without even reading whats going on. I'm sure I'm not alone.

T206Collector
08-20-2012, 01:37 PM
Also, there are a lot of "experts" on here that like to share their opinions about whether an autograph is real or not. Why would you share your collection if you can expect a few people to chime in about how the signature doesn't look right to them?

Probably comes with the territory, but could you imagine if every time you showed a T206 card on the forum that two or three people were like, "Looks trimmed to me" or "Lettering seems off, might be a reprint". No one would share any more. And it would discourage collecting.

bluebirds
08-20-2012, 02:07 PM
Leon has the right idea in making people post full names in these mud slinging contests. However, "Joe Blow" in Texas calling "Harry Hinkle" in Boston doesn't cut it with me. Don't say anything on here you WOULDN'T SAY TO A PERSON FACE TO FACE. If this rule was followed the negativity would greatly decrease and some of the phony "self-appointed" hobby saviors would disappear like the hot air some of them are. But then again the moon might touch the earth tonight if that happened.

Martin Green

bluebirds
08-20-2012, 02:16 PM
Second sentence in previous post should have said: "Joe Blow" in Texas CALLING "Harry Hinkle" in Boston a name doesn't cut it.
Martin Green

TyrusRCobb
08-20-2012, 02:39 PM
I joined this forum in late July and found that the vast majority of people very helpful indeed. However, I also felt attacked buy a few members. Perhaps they found my newbie questions and lack of knowledge annoying, I'm not sure. I even responded to such a post by hurling insults at a man I've never met, it was an embarrassing act on my part. Since that post I've written a two line response to a Bob Feller image which was posted and I posted an image in response to a poster's question. Frankly, being new and lacking knowledge, I don't want to post because I don't want to be attacked again.

David Atkatz
08-20-2012, 02:43 PM
Keep on posting, Adam. (The image of the Eddie Bennett-signed ball was very useful. Do you own it?)

JimStinson
08-20-2012, 03:26 PM
Interesting thread here and I like it , I was away for the weekend and was not going to post much because I too felt that there started to involve negative issues and comments , There were a couple of times that even my own attempts at levity in hindsight seemed ill mannered and ill timed.
The best thing I can add to this thread is what the late George Sanders said to me once. George and Helen used to put out all the autograph price guides and he had been a celebrity in his own right having his own radio show and had personally met and interviewed and gotten the autographs of Dr. Martin Luther King, JFK, everyone that was anyone in the 1950's and 1960's. I would usually write the introduction on Baseball autographs for his books. I was also doing free lance writing on sports in general and autographs in particular and he told me this

"People will want to hear about the NEGATIVE side of collecting, Don;t give it to them. If you can't write anything good about the hobby don't write NOTHING at all because There is MORE than enough good to go around and if you wrote from now until you couldn;t write anymore about NOTHING but the positive experiences you've had in autograph collecting you STILL would not have time to write about all of it"

Exhibitman
08-20-2012, 03:30 PM
Keep on posting, Adam. (The image of the Eddie Bennett-signed ball was very useful. Do you own it?)

Wrong Adam; I don't even know who Eddie Bennett is.

Runscott
08-20-2012, 03:38 PM
Don't say anything on here you WOULDN'T SAY TO A PERSON FACE TO FACE.

Martin, that would solve the problem. In a hobby like ours, if you are serious, you are likely to meet others at an event or two.

Kawika
08-20-2012, 03:39 PM
Wrong Adam; I don't even know who Eddie Bennett is.
He meant Adam Phillips who posts as TyrusRCobb, you moron.

Runscott
08-20-2012, 03:41 PM
I joined this forum in late July and found that the vast majority of people very helpful indeed. However, I also felt attacked buy a few members. Perhaps they found my newbie questions and lack of knowledge annoying, I'm not sure. I even responded to such a post by hurling insults at a man I've never met, it was an embarrassing act on my part. Since that post I've written a two line response to a Bob Feller image which was posted and I posted an image in response to a poster's question. Frankly, being new and lacking knowledge, I don't want to post because I don't want to be attacked again.

Many of us have been there. Live and learn, but keep posting.

(BTW-sometimes it is newbie questions and your actually HAVING knowledge - it can threaten the old-timers and they end up resorting to spraying the walls with their scent.)

Scott Garner
08-20-2012, 03:45 PM
It's funny you mention this as I've had similar feelings lately. Most refreshed threads are negative in nature. I sorted the threads by views and the top 5 are all about counterfeits and the like. Maybe that can be translated to these are the type of discussions people like on this board? Don't know but I find it boring and don't participate.

I like the 'show off' threads of people's collections or discussions around their collecting focus. I also enjoy reading stories of years past. Not enough of those in my opinion.

I agree with Mark whole heartedly on this one! ;)

TyrusRCobb
08-20-2012, 03:50 PM
Keep on posting, Adam. (The image of the Eddie Bennett-signed ball was very useful. Do you own it?)
Thanks Doc. I wish the ball was mine! Having read the OP I did some searching and found the image.

Scott Garner
08-20-2012, 03:51 PM
Maybe Leon can start another forum called Mudslinging forum so these guys that want to call each other names and cut each other down can do it without bringing the rest of us down with them. I think it would have about 3 members that come to mind right off the top of my head.

Keith

Perhaps the Mudslinging Forum could be held at high noon? Seems like this would make good sense, FWIW.... :rolleyes:

Big Dave
08-20-2012, 04:02 PM
This is the kind of garbage this thread is referring to. Was there any reason whatsoever to include..."you moron." ...in your response?


He meant Adam Phillips who post as TyrusRCobb, you moron.

keithsky
08-20-2012, 04:11 PM
Well that didn't last very long before it started again.

Leon
08-20-2012, 04:17 PM
This is the kind of garbage this thread is referring to. Was there any reason whatsoever to include..."you moron." ...in your response?


Adam and David are good hobby friends. It was tongue in cheek, guaranteed. Ya' just have to know David (which I am happy to say I do) to know what he said is so far outside of his norm that it was a joke.

tinkereversandme
08-20-2012, 04:18 PM
I belong to several collectible forums and this one is hands down filedl with so much constant nastiness and anger. I have been attacked for asking simple newbie questions. I have developed friendships with certain members who have been amazing in asking my questions but I really wish that there was more helpful people and less angry and insulting ones. Certain posters I know (and talk to privately) refrain from posting much because of all the mud slinging and that;s a shame. Any person who uses profane language, insults or brings forth something that could be considered detrimental to the site should get the boot until they can play nice with others.

Regards,

Larry

alexautographs
08-20-2012, 05:38 PM
Profane language has no place on any forum. If the members can't agree to be civil, they can PM each other, and threaten to kill each other's dogs, or whatever....

None of you know me, except Jim, Shelly and Travis - but my credentials outside of this forum are, IMHO, well proven.

You good people have a choice:

a.) Tear each other to bits over whose authenticator is best, or;
b.) Work for the common good.

I obviously have my preferences, and have said so in the past. As well illustrated here, the more infighting there is here (ex: Travis vs. Zipper, for example), the less that will be accomplished - except to scare any potential collector out of the hobby altogether. Jim and Richard have their opinions, but I haven't seen them pile on.

I know both Travis and Richard only through their anti-fraud efforts. They are NOT anti-authenticators - they are anti-profiteers and anti-incompetence. Have they made mistakes? Of course. Have I made mistakes? Bunches. We admit them. The TPAs don't.

Yes, PSA/DNA make mistakes. Yes, Spence makes mistakes. The differences between them and auctioneers/dealers are:

a.) They authenticate in fields in which, I believe, they are not qualified to judge;
b.) I believe there is a great deal of favoritism towards big-time customers;
c.) They authenticate via scans, and guarantee (with money), nothing;
d.) There is no record of their revoking their approvals;
e.) They make no public rebuttals or statements whatsoever - and PSA is a publicly-held company.

Yes, they do the public good. But since they charge a hefty fee and are now market-makers, they must be held accountable for their authentications. And as I said, if they say it's bad, it's ruined, even if Derek signed it and wiped hi pen on your shirt.

Comments???

alexautographs
08-20-2012, 05:42 PM
PS - And any dealer, experienced collector, or auctioneer who belittles a newbie collector is:

a.) A profiteer;
b.) A know-it-all;
c.) Diminishing his stature in the hobby, or;
d.) Losing three times as many potential customers through his idiotic postings.

"An ego is a terrible thing to abuse..."

David Atkatz
08-20-2012, 05:43 PM
Been saying the same things for years, Bill, re: PSA/JSA.

(And I know you--old customer of yours.)

thenavarro
08-20-2012, 06:13 PM
None of you know me, except Jim, Shelly and Travis - but my credentials outside of this forum are, IMHO, well proven.


Comments???

If you are Bill P and not someone posting under his corporate name, then there are more people that know you here than you think

I've purchased/sold many items to/from you including Albert Einstein, Thomas Edison, Sam Houston, John Hancock, etc etc etc

Mike

shelly
08-20-2012, 06:39 PM
I have taken more bashing than I think anyone on this site. Yes a Felon but in the near future many of the people that you thought where Gods will join me in that title.. As Truman said" if you cant take the heat get out the kitchen." As for Ty Cobb. Who was the first person when asked told you that the Williams and the Koufax where both bad. if you where insulted that I could not get over your total obsessin with a ball cube then I am sorry You on the other hand came at me and Chris like we poisned you food. So don't ever be afraid to come on here. It seems you know just what to do when your feelings are hurt.
As for the rest of the people that are offended by what takes place here so am
Bill you are right this site was a great place for people to learn. I am proud that I hold the title to the longest thread in the history of net 54.It never would have happened if it wasn't for so many people coming together for a very important cause. We might not have all agreed but that was not important.
Last but not least. How many of you that posted on this thread are guilty of what you know say is relentless negativity.

not horrible as stated before.

Exhibitman
08-20-2012, 06:45 PM
Adam and David are good hobby friends. It was tongue in cheek, guaranteed. Ya' just have to know David (which I am happy to say I do) to know what he said is so far outside of his norm that it was a joke.

Yeah, I figured it was a joke; David and I spent some quality time at the bar together in BAL. And I will be the first to cop to the occasional brain fart. Besides, no one ever takes anything David McD says seriously anyway :D

Kawika
08-20-2012, 06:56 PM
Besides, no one ever takes anything David McD says seriously anyway. :D
Stealing material from my wife, are ya?

Runscott
08-20-2012, 07:10 PM
How many of you that posted on this thread are guilty of what you know say is so horrible.?

Me!

However, I don't say it's horrible - I realize that when people are going through shlt, or are just temporarily too bored for their own good, they might behave badly. Some such people seem to be going through a lifetime of that attitude - mine is only in short spurts.

RichardSimon
08-20-2012, 08:50 PM
Never mind.

Fuddjcal
08-20-2012, 09:27 PM
Profane language has no place on any forum. If the members can't agree to be civil, they can PM each other, and threaten to kill each other's dogs, or whatever....

None of you know me, except Jim, Shelly and Travis - but my credentials outside of this forum are, IMHO, well proven.

You good people have a choice:

a.) Tear each other to bits over whose authenticator is best, or;
b.) Work for the common good.

I obviously have my preferences, and have said so in the past. As well illustrated here, the more infighting there is here (ex: Travis vs. Zipper, for example), the less that will be accomplished - except to scare any potential collector out of the hobby altogether. Jim and Richard have their opinions, but I haven't seen them pile on.

I know both Travis and Richard only through their anti-fraud efforts. They are NOT anti-authenticators - they are anti-profiteers and anti-incompetence. Have they made mistakes? Of course. Have I made mistakes? Bunches. We admit them. The TPAs don't.

Yes, PSA/DNA make mistakes. Yes, Spence makes mistakes. The differences between them and auctioneers/dealers are:

a.) They authenticate in fields in which, I believe, they are not qualified to judge;
b.) I believe there is a great deal of favoritism towards big-time customers;
c.) They authenticate via scans, and guarantee (with money), nothing;
d.) There is no record of their revoking their approvals;
e.) They make no public rebuttals or statements whatsoever - and PSA is a publicly-held company.

Yes, they do the public good. But since they charge a hefty fee and are now market-makers, they must be held accountable for their authentications. And as I said, if they say it's bad, it's ruined, even if Derek signed it and wiped hi pen on your shirt.

Comments???

Someone should take a screen shot of this and save it for later because NO ONE has or could make this point any better or more clear. We don't need endless analogies, one sided Willies, or dog piling on the rabbit... NOW, the next time this subject comes up, maybe we can just re-post this and be done with it.....

TyrusRCobb
08-21-2012, 03:39 AM
I have taken more bashing than I think anyone on this site. Yes a Felon but in the near future many of the people that you thought where Gods will join me in that title.. As Truman said" if you cant take the heat get out the kitchen." As for Ty Cobb. Who was the first person when asked told you that the Williams and the Koufax where both bad. if you where insulted that I could not get over your total obsessin with a ball cube then I am sorry You on the other hand came at me and Chris like we poisned you food. So don't ever be afraid to come on here. It seems you know just what to do when your feelings are hurt.
As for the rest of the people that are offended by what takes place here so am
Bill you are right this site was a great place for people to learn. I am proud that I hold the title to the longest thread in the history of net 54.It never would have happened if it wasn't for so many people coming together for a very important cause. We might not have all agreed but that was not important.
Last but not least. How many of you that posted on this thread are guilty of what you know say is relentless negativity.

not horrible as stated before.
Shelly, as I stated in my post, I attacked you having never met you and was ashamed for doing so. I'm really not that type of person. Please accept my sincere apology.
Adam

shelly
08-21-2012, 10:01 AM
Ty, no problem. like I said everyone on here is out to help you not hurt you. Just tell us what you need and you will find a whole lot of people come out of the woodwork to help.

Shelly

drc
08-21-2012, 10:55 AM
I thought recently this board hadn't been so bad. Some non-negative threads right now. Duly note that relentless negativity gets old fast with me, so I'm not someone with a high threshold for it. I wouldn't say I thought it was "not so bad recently" if I didn't think it.

I believe the reasons this was separated from the memorabilia board was because both there were a plethora of bad auction threads (with some arguments) and two there were more autograph threads than non-autograph. So part was the popularity of the autograph topic.

Clearly, people come to this forum for opinions on their autographs (they often specifically ask for opinions on their autographs), so authenticity opinions seem to an integral part of the the forum.

There are long fights and controversies on the card forum too (see the recent Goldin and Heritage threads), though they seem to be more spread out between harmless informational topics.

I think it would be nice to see some interesting informational threads and such, as opposed to just the latest scams and forgeries. One nice thing about about the card forum is there are regular threads on that order.

slidekellyslide
08-21-2012, 11:28 AM
For those of us outside of the autograph hobby, but semi-interested in what goes on in here, it's a sideshow. I like all of the participants even though it's clear that some of them really detest each other. I think all of them have the same end goal of making this a safer hobby, but they tend to focus on different aspects of the bad side of the hobby and they take it to a personal level.

As a moderator I tried in vain to mediate some of what was going on when it was on the memorabilia side...I've completely given up that effort since the move and that may be why it seems even more negative.

shelly
08-21-2012, 01:33 PM
Dan, if people just learned that not everyone is going to agree with what is said. This site will come back to where it belongs.