T207 Distribution Question

[WillowGrove]

I recently bought a lot including two empty Cycle boxes stamped May 23, 1913 and a Cycle back of t207 Roy Miller. They were discovered recently by a guy who was removing insulation in the walls of an old home in New Hampshire.

My question is - is it possible that the t207's were also sold into 1913? It seems like the worker who was working on the house 100 or so years ago could have gotten the card in one of the packs and crumpled it up; FYI the card is in poor shape - and just ditched it all in the walls.

I'm not up on the details on when T207's were distributed but considering the way these were found, and that the packs were stamped 1913 - I thought I'd raise the question.

thanks for any thoughts

EDITED TO ADD: Jon Canfield made a good point in an email to me - these are both 15 count boxes - which did not contain cards. I feel the need to also add that I have no reason to doubt how they were found. Hmmmmm. thanks again.

peter

[Pup6913]

We don't know everything about distribution at all. The odds of the cards being found with packs in a wall is scarce and raises the question of what we can guarentee. Without a document from the factory discussing packing like we have for 206's I would believe that those 15ct packs did contain the cards. jmo

[WillowGrove]

We don't know everything about distribution at all. The odds of the cards being found with packs in a wall is scarce and raises the question of what we can guarentee. Without a document from the factory discussing packing like we have for 206's I would believe that those 15ct packs did contain the cards. jmo

Andrew - where can I find this document from the factory discussing 206 packaging. I'd really like to read it. thanks. btw - and good meeting you at the dinner. maybe one day I'll get to that tree-resort in the Ozarks. -peter

[canjond]

Peter-

Here is the T-206 factory distribution record for Cycle. I do disagree with Andrew on the distribution methods, however. I find it unlikely that the configuration would change between series. Truth is, we don't know (maybe we will know someday), but my speculation is that 10-counts are the configuration used across all series.

- Jon

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/jon_canfield/Cigarette%20Packs/Cyclepage.jpg

[Bridwell]

Although we know for sure that T206's were distributed in 10 count packs, we don't know for sure whether T206's were ever in other size packs. Since no proof has been found, it is generally assumed that T206's were only inserted into 10 count packs. Assumptions can be proven wrong, if anyone has evidence to the contrary.

T207's were distributed in 1912, but certainly the distribution could have extended into 1913. A couple of older T206 packs were opened and supposedly a T206 card was found inside even though the packs were dated well past 1911.

So who knows for sure? Maybe the manufacturer had extra supplies of cards so they kept distributing them.

[Pup6913]

We have to remember the ATC got seperated before the printing of both my beloved T205's and the T207 sets. What we know about 206's means nothing to the other sets. It's only an assumption if we go that way with 0 proof. The fact those cards were pulled out of a wall with 15ct packs is hard to ignore.

Look at the AB's. They changed the pack size but not the card size during 205 distribution. I used to think 205's were somehow a subset of 206's. Like a continuation of some sorts but after a lot of research I believe that the T205,t80, and the other bird issue makes the 400 subjects. Take out the typo variations from the 205 set and add those other gold boarder cards and the number is right at 400. Kinda hard to look away from that.

Collecting and reasearching these types of cards sometimes reminds me of those 3-D pictures. We stand so darn close to them looking for the image or info we forget that sometimes we have to step back to see the picture.

Can the OP post pics of the find?

[canjond]

I have never heard that pack size of ABs changes during distribution. Just curious where that info came from? I have (or have owned) AB 10 count slide and shell packs from 1903, 1906, 1907, 1910 and 1913. All were the exact dimensions.

[canjond]

To Ron's point, while I'll certainly concede that we cannot know with certainty how the cards were distributed, every bit of evidence we have to date points to 10 count packs. Advertisements, unopened packs, etc. - and this stretches across all brands. While I agree it's interesting that 2 opened boxes were found with a card, it certainly isn't close to the evidence we have that points to 10 count distribution.

[Pup6913]

http://www.net54baseball.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=69927&stc=1&d=1343359664


This is what I was referring to. I may be wrong also:confused:

[Bocabirdman]

We have to remember the ATC got seperated before the printing of both my beloved T205's and the T207 sets. What we know about 206's means nothing to the other sets. It's only an assumption if we go that way with 0 proof. The fact those cards were pulled out of a wall with 15ct packs is hard to ignore.
Look at the AB's. They changed the pack size but not the card size during 205 distribution. I used to think 205's were somehow a subset of 206's. Like a continuation of some sorts but after a lot of research I believe that the T205,t80, and the other bird issue makes the 400 subjects. Take out the typo variations from the 205 set and add those other gold boarder cards and the number is right at 400. Kinda hard to look away from that.

Collecting and reasearching these types of cards sometimes reminds me of those 3-D pictures. We stand so darn close to them looking for the image or info we forget that sometimes we have to step back to see the picture.

Can the OP post pics of the find?

I agree. What would the chance be of some putting both cards AND packaging from the same manufacting company that the cards did NOT come in, into the wall cavity?