Counterfeit PSA Holder 1952 Topps Mantle

[delawarevintage]

I purchased two PSA Graded 1952 Topps Mantle cards back in December. because I did not want to make a mistake I called the professionals at PSA for guidance. I called to see if the cards were reported stolen. This was a Craigslist deal and I wanted to be safe. The PSA Rep told me they don't keep such records. I asked what I should do. She said to make sure the Serial Numbers match up. They did. I made the purchase for cash. The cards turn out to be counterfeits inserted into PSA holders. After lots of research I find out that the scam has been going on for several years. I talk to average collectors and they have no knowledge of the scam. The insiders such as PSA dealers are the only people I have talked to that are aware. I spoke to the PSA President a few times and he implied that I was an idiot. He said I should have seen the frosting around the edges. Lots of PSA cards have frosting around the edges. PSA has had all the information about the scam for years. Why did they only tell me to check the serial numbers? Any warning I would have avoided the deal. I called PSA twice recently. Now they warn you of all the dangers and scams. Try calling! I'm looking for comments from collectors as to what they would do if they found themselves in this situation. Please email response to devintage@comcast.net Thanks for reading. M

[Deertick]

I'd notify the police and report it to the ICCC. Not much you can do with a cash transaction. Get familiar with PSA slabs and labels. It was most likely a counterfiet slab, NOT one that had the card replaced. Oh, and now that you found Net54, ask questions FIRST. A lot of headaches have been prevented here (and some given, but that is another story).

[Wymers Auction]

I would recommend no high dollar purchases on craigslist for one. PSA cannot help that crooks are creating fake slabs. I would have called the police while the guy might still be contacted. Before purchasing any more Mantle rookies spend some time getting familiar with the techniques involved in detecting fake Mantles.

[Tcards-Please]

Did you not get the support from your original post back in June?

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=89073&page=3

r/
Frank

[devintage]

I have not gotten an support up to this point

[Volod]

I have not gotten an support up to this point

No, he means the support you got under your other username back in June. Sheezz....:rolleyes:

[Brianruns10]

Another sad example of why it is crucial to buy the card, not the plastic.

I've seen almost a half dozen of these cracked slab fakes, with seemingly legit PSA labels. I don't know enough about PSA to ID an authentic or fake label, but I know the Mantle card in and out (both types). And if you know what a real '52 Mantle looks like, you'll never fall for a fake. All the examples I've seen have three key diagnostics:

1) The color is wrong...Mantle is far too orange, when he should be more of a ruddy pink or buff.

2) Mantle's signature is too high. On real examples, the bottom loop of the "Y" is nearly touching the inner black border of the star box. This is the same for both types.

3) The team logo is far too good. It resembles the logo for the '53 or '54 series, with clearly defined, "v" shaped red stitches on the baseball, a two tone black bat with a white center, and a crisp, clearly defined "Yankees" script. On AUTHENTIC '52 mantles, the bat is solid black, and the red stitches are weakly defined blotches that resemble a string of pearls. The "Yankees" script is weakly defined, and the a's and e's are practically filled in.

[Volod]

Some of the counterfeits I've seen also have the stitches on the ball holding the card number on the verso pointing the wrong way.

[Brianruns10]

Some of the counterfeits I've seen also have the stitches on the ball holding the card number on the verso pointing the wrong way.

Actually, that's not an indicator of fraud. Actually it's a very real variety. The Mantle card was one of the three double prints on the high series sheet (along with the Robinson and Thomson). Type 1 the stitches point to the left, type 2 they point to the right.

I hope this doesn't mean you passed on a stack of Mantles at a garage sale! ;)

[Moesalty]

The same thing happened to me on eBay with a 1952 topps Mantle PSA 2. When I received it, I didn't like the look of the card. I went on YouTube and learned just how easy it to pop open a psa holder. At one point, there was an authentic Mantle in the holder, but was replaced with an obvious reprint.

EBay and paypal could do nothing to help me, but thank God that all my major purchases through paypal are paid for through Amex. One phone call and 24 hours later I got my money back. Amex also helped me and put me in contact with the authorities.

I still have the card and look at it often to remind me that "good" deals aren't always good!

[Wymers Auction]

Analysis of the authentic card

First off, a little about the history of the card and the 1952 Topps cards in general. The 1952 Topps set was Topps first standard issue set. The set was divided into 6 series. The low series cards were the first issued, however, demand didn't peak until the second series. Low and mid series cards surviving today are in significantly larger quantities that the elusive high number series. Card number 311, which happens to be Mantle, leads off the high numbers. These cards were issued well after the earlier series and had limited demand. A rumor has been floating around for years that Topps actually produced thousands and thousands of these cards that they could not sell, so they had them hauled out to sea and dumped.

Many of the 1952 Topps cards had production problems. Today, it is somewhat of a rarity to find a perfectly centered 1952 Topps card. Almost never will a card exhibit perfect centering of both the front and back because many of the original sheets that the cards were cut from did not line up properly to begin with. Because of this, the majority of the cards were cut off-center and many were miscut (some badly enough that the neighboring card on the sheet was showing). Many cards were also "diamond cuts" where the image is tilted, but the card is of standard size.

Topps issued two variations of the Mickey Mantle card. The two cards have at least 8 differences between them, they are easy to detect. In the picture below, the front of the card labeled Var. A corresponds to the back of the card also labeled Var. A.

#1 - One of the most obvious of the variations, the Yankees logo is enclosed entirely in a black outline box in Var. A, while in Var. B, the logo has only a partial black box outline around it.

#2 - On Var. A, the bottom left corner is missing a pixel that leaves the corner incomplete. In Var. B, the corner is nearly perfectly squared off.

#3 & #4 - On Var. B, the upper left corner black border extends slightly horizontally past the left vertical border and the upper right corner black border extends slightly horizontally past the right vertical border. In Var. A, the upper left corner black border is nearly perfect square and the upper right corner black border is indented slightly (< .5mm) horizontally inside of right vertical border.

#5 - The least obvious of the variations, on Var. B, there is an unprinted pixel in the blue background near the left edge of the card. Var. A has no missing pixel.

#6 - In Var. B, the rows of stars that make up the box around Mantle's name and signature has a "chewed up" look to it. In Var. A, the rows of stars are lined up neatly

#7 - In Var. A, the S from DiMaggio's lines up directly under the H in Right, while in Var. B, the S lines up under the T in Right.

#8 - The stitching of the baseball surrounding the card number runs in opposite directions on the two variations. In Var. A, it points to the left and the lines that make up the stitching are drawn rather thin, while in Var. B, the stitching lines point to the right and are drawn much thicker and in darker ink tone.

Many other variations of this card exist, however, they are all counterfeits and/or reprints. Check out known counterfeits and how to spot them to see some of the common features of a counterfeit production.

I have also seen that the bat in the Yankees logo has a white streak when it should be solid black.

[Volod]

Actually, that's not an indicator of fraud. Actually it's a very real variety. The Mantle card was one of the three double prints on the high series sheet (along with the Robinson and Thomson). Type 1 the stitches point to the left, type 2 they point to the right.

I hope this doesn't mean you passed on a stack of Mantles at a garage sale! ;)

Actually, I saw the stitches on the counterfeit Mantle that was the subject of this thread. I guess whoever faked it used the variation you referred to.

[devintage]

I'd notify the police and report it to the ICCC. Not much you can do with a cash transaction. Get familiar with PSA slabs and labels. It was most likely a counterfiet slab, NOT one that had the card replaced. Oh, and now that you found Net54, ask questions FIRST. A lot of headaches have been prevented here (and some given, but that is another story).

Yes, but you did not comment on my reaching out to PSA and asking for help. Do you think they let me down by not giving me any information about the problems they have encountered. I Felt secure because the cards are in PSA holders. I did not know about the scam. They did. Do you see my point?

[devintage]

The same thing happened to me on eBay with a 1952 topps Mantle PSA 2. When I received it, I didn't like the look of the card. I went on YouTube and learned just how easy it to pop open a psa holder. At one point, there was an authentic Mantle in the holder, but was replaced with an obvious reprint.

EBay and paypal could do nothing to help me, but thank God that all my major purchases through paypal are paid for through Amex. One phone call and 24 hours later I got my money back. Amex also helped me and put me in contact with the authorities.

I still have the card and look at it often to remind me that "good" deals aren't always good!
I tried to avoid a mistake by calling PSA. They did not reveal any information to me about the scam. I was told to make sure the serial numbers match. Any warning I would have avoided the deal.

[ALR-bishop]

The Thompson and Robinson, along with the Mantle, were all double prints and have the back stitching differences. All three also have minor front differences. These "variations" were finally listed in the 2012 SCD Standard Catalog.

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/img126.jpg?t=1338390358

[Volod]

Thanks, Al.