Isa graders?

[CMIZ5290]

Does anyone have opinions or thoughts about this new grading service? I must admit, some of there recent cards on ebay look very strictly graded....still very skeptical however.

[novakjr]

Have they given any trimmed cards an 8 yet?

[Peter_Spaeth]

On an ebay search, the first card that comes up is an ISA 9 33 Goudey. That was enough for me.

[sycks22]

ISA isn't new, it's been around for a couple years. I wouldn't trust them.

[VOTC]

I know the owner personally. Jason Koonce. Former PSA employee. Was unhappy with some aspects of PSA decided he could do it better. I trust them

[bobbyw8469]

You may trust them, but the general public doesn't.

[Peter_Spaeth]

First five cards on a highest to lowest search.
Brett rookie 10
Ditka rookie 9
Jordan rookie 10
Brock rookie 9
56 Jackie 9

Well, OK, maybe.

[novakjr]

Just from looking at what's on the bay. It does appear that they do a pretty decent job of grading/authenticating. My only concern is that on the high-grade stuff, it appears that the 10 may be thrown around a little too freely.. That Brett rookie though. It's hard to say. It's one hell of a gorgeous card..

[36GoudeyMan]

We really won't know much until we some ISA cross to PSA/SGC... notwithstanding the issues with PSA/SGC themselves...

[pclpads]

Does anyone have opinions or thoughts about this new grading service? I must admit, some of there recent cards on ebay look very strictly graded....still very skeptical however.

If you are looking to slab vintage and want to maximize your investment, why go to a start-up? Stick w/ PSA or SGC.

[travrosty]

If you are looking to slab vintage and want to maximize your investment, why go to a start-up? Stick w/ PSA or SGC.



because they were startups once too. why would you ever go with sgc, when psa started their card grading service first? how did sgc get off the ground if people just said "why go with sgc, stick w/psa?

[pclpads]

because they were startups once too. why would you ever go with sgc, when psa started their card grading service first? how did sgc get off the ground if people just said "why go with sgc, stick w/psa?

Maybe you missed this earlier post: "On an ebay search, the first card that comes up is an ISA 9 33 Goudey. That was enough for me."

My post was obviously over your head. The point is, PSA & SGC now have years of cred. So, why go to a newer, unproven? When PSA & SGC started, what was the slab competition . . . CSA, PRO, KSA?? I'd take my chances on a PSA or SGC slab any day of the week over the same card in a ISA slab. What are you, a flack for ISA?

[buymycards]

I was surprised to see a full page ad in SCD this week. $7 per card for 2 day service.

[travrosty]

Maybe you missed this earlier post: "On an ebay search, the first card that comes up is an ISA 9 33 Goudey. That was enough for me."

My post was obviously over your head. The point is, PSA & SGC now have years of cred. So, why go to a newer, unproven? When PSA & SGC started, what was the slab competition . . . CSA, PRO, KSA?? I'd take my chances on a PSA or SGC slab any day of the week over the same card in a ISA slab. What are you, a flack for ISA?



no, i had never heard of them before, i just reject out of the hand the old argument that a new startup cant be trusted, then no one would have trusted sgc, because psa was already up and running by then, so why take a chance on sgc.

you are suggesting psa and sgc opened at the same time, and they didnt - psa started first, please correct me if i am in error.

same with autographs, people will say - "why go with someone other than psa or jsa.

well, when jsa started, where were those people saying "why go with someone other than psa?"

no startup would or could succeed following that line of reasoning.

[drc]

It's true that people in the hobby can be automatically dismissive about the new and different. I've noticed that through the years.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Who is the grader? What are his qualifications and more importantly his reputation?

[Wymers Auction]

If I was that curious I would buy an inexpensive ISA card and view the item for myself. There are several of these startups that grade dinged up cards as 10's.

[pclpads]

no, i had never heard of them before, i just reject out of the hand the old argument that a new startup cant be trusted, then no one would have trusted sgc, because psa was already up and running by then, so why take a chance on sgc.

you are suggesting psa and sgc opened at the same time, and they didnt - psa started first, please correct me if i am in error.

same with autographs, people will say - "why go with someone other than psa or jsa.

well, when jsa started, where were those people saying "why go with someone other than psa?"

no startup would or could succeed following that line of reasoning.

So, if you had a '52T Mantle, your grading co. of choice would be ISA and you really believe that would maximize the value over the same card in a PSA or SGC slab?

[Peter_Spaeth]

So, if you had a '52T Mantle, your grading co. of choice would be ISA and you really believe that would maximize the value over the same card in a PSA or SGC slab?

It might if ISA gave it a numerical grade and the others would have deemed it altered; or graded it 2 grades higher. Otherwise, clearly not. More generally, I don't think it's impossible for a new market entrant to make headway, but I think the market would require a lot of information about the grader and his reputation. There have been quite a number of sham grading services in the past and the burden is on any new one to convince us that it isn't one more.

[drc]

I agree that a new company has to demonstrate their skills and/or document their experience. If a new company does a credible, good job it can catch on with time-- though I'd think card grading can be a tough area to get a foothold.

I think if a company does a good job, many collectors will eventually be welcoming. Collectors often say it would be nice if there was a new quality grader.

[T206DK]

I wonder if their facebook page still exists. it showed a bunch of young kids as the employees....

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would welcome a grading service with expert graders free from influence and ownership free from conflict of interest.

[novakjr]

Well, at least the Cobb/Edwards Wagner wasn't the first card that they graded.. ISA's definitely off to a better start than others..

[Peter_Spaeth]

Anyone remember CSA and PRO?

[travrosty]

they say they want a new quality grader, but if it ever comes to fruition, they swarm like sharks and hyenas to denounce the company because all their stuff is in psa or gsc holders, and they dont want to dilute what they already have.

if a new company overtook sgc or psa and caught on TOO MUCH, then all their stuff has to be regraded and pay again, it's what happened with gai and autograph authentication.

so they really DONT want someone newm everm no matter how good.

[drc]

The majority of new graders have been scams to borderline scams, so skepticism from card collectors isn't just knee jerk.

Some basement graders were there to grade fakes and altered cards, and others existed to overgrade as the grader was also the cards owner and seller. One infamous grader graded pictures cut out of books, representing them as cards-- and, yes, the grader, the picture cutter and the seller were the same person. Some graders clearly did not care if their grade or card description was accurate (they often knew the grade and description was wrong)-- they were only interested in taking money from newbie collectors who didn't know better.

So card collectors who have been around the block are going to be skeptical when the latest grader pops up. History hasn't exactly been pretty.

[calvindog]

because they were startups once too. why would you ever go with sgc, when psa started their card grading service first? how did sgc get off the ground if people just said "why go with sgc, stick w/psa?

True. Maybe they're great guys. Maybe they do things the right way. Maybe they aren't greedy bastards who just care about money.

[calvindog]

Who is the grader? What are his qualifications and more importantly his reputation?

The head grader's qualifications: he was born to grade.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Sounds like a Springsteen hit.

[drc]

As a watcher of vintage horror movies (ala Bela Lugosi), it makes me wonder what kind of unholy, unearthly lab experiment would produce a human born to be a grader.

[calvindog]

Sounds like a Springsteen hit.

Very few people actually know that the original title of Springsteen's 1975 breakout hit was "Born to Grade." Who would have known he was a card geek when he was young?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Was "Grading in the Dark" about PSA, SGC, or both?

[acramos1]

Instead of people just dogging ISA, can we get some opinions from people who have actually dealt with the company?

[Deertick]

My favorite album, "Gradings from Asbury Park, NJ."

[DerekMichael]

Mr. Mize,

For all I know, ISA could be a great company.

The thing is, it may impact the value of your card if it is in an ISA holder as oppose to PSA or SGC. For example, I have bought a few cards over the years by grading companies other than PSA and SGC, and on more than one occasion, they turned out to be altered.

In other words, I personally will always be a bit skeptical now due to my personal experience, and therefore would almost automatically pay less for a card graded by a company that is not PSA or SGC.

Still, I suppose we now know that no company is 100% perfect.

[acramos1]

Still not getting any "personal experiences" yet. Again, I'm very interested to hear from people who have personally dealt with ISA!

[brett 75]

Don't particularly care for any of the grading company's but there is absolutely nothing wrong with good old fashioned competition in the business world . The collectors will be the final judge of who has quality grading at a fair price. All the money I saved on sending cards in for grading I spent on more actual cards rather than on hard plastic case and typed labels . Learn to grade for your self! Brett

[Peter_Spaeth]

My favorite album, "Gradings from Asbury Park, NJ."

:D:D

[Clutch-Hitter]

Just browsed ebay and noticed the high end stuff but there were "authentic/altered" cards and other lower grade ones as well, all of which seemed consistent. The high end was very nice by the way, possibly ringers to attract attention. Looks pretty good so far. If done the right way, they can compete, and I noticed known advertizers on their site, along with probstein (?) selling some high end card.

[Clutch-Hitter]

P.S: they'll advertize here if they have any sense.

[oldjudge]

Jeff-let's clear one thing up, if your name is not Grady you couldn't be born to grade (exceptions may be made if your mother's maiden name was Grady and you are willing to undergo some genetic testing).

[toledo_mudhen]

So I picked up one of these at a more than fair price..... You tell me.....

<a href="http://s875.photobucket.com/user/toledo_mudhen/media/1955Banks85Front_zps5d24fe58.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab318/toledo_mudhen/1955Banks85Front_zps5d24fe58.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 1955Banks85Front_zps5d24fe58.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s875.photobucket.com/user/toledo_mudhen/media/1955Banks85Back_zps00c8eb43.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab318/toledo_mudhen/1955Banks85Back_zps00c8eb43.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 1955Banks85Back_zps00c8eb43.jpg"/></a>

[bobbyw8469]

I would take a pass on the Banks if I were you. It is in that ISA holder for a reason.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Looks trimmed to me..........

[1880nonsports]

I don't collect recent issues any longer and have always stayed away from cards in the minty ranges. Looking at the Banks card shown (without it in hand) I would have no clue it's been trimmed from the scan. I might not know even with it in hand..... An "off brand" of TPG and unusual condition suggests an extra level of caution be applied.

[ksabet]

...nevermind

[rocarroll]

no, i had never heard of them before, i just reject out of the hand the old argument that a new startup cant be trusted, then no one would have trusted sgc, because psa was already up and running by then, so why take a chance on sgc.

you are suggesting psa and sgc opened at the same time, and they didnt - psa started first, please correct me if i am in error.

same with autographs, people will say - "why go with someone other than psa or jsa.

well, when jsa started, where were those people saying "why go with someone other than psa?"

no startup would or could succeed following that line of reasoning.

That may be true, but I don't want to be the guinea pig for them. Especially considering the fact I'm only saving $3 over SGC. No thanks but best of luck to you on that.

[midmo]

If nothing else I really like their simple pricing structure. I wish the others would take note. I've never understood why the value of a card should dictate the price to grade it. That always seemed wrong to me.

[pokerplyr80]

It might if ISA gave it a numerical grade and the others would have deemed it altered; or graded it 2 grades higher. Otherwise, clearly not. More generally, I don't think it's impossible for a new market entrant to make headway, but I think the market would require a lot of information about the grader and his reputation. There have been quite a number of sham grading services in the past and the burden is on any new one to convince us that it isn't one more.

+1

The only reason I could imagine someone sending in a high profile card like a 53 Mantle or an 86 Jordan to a company no one has heard of is that they couldn't get a numerical grade out of PSA or SGC. Anyone buying these cards is probably hoping to cross but chances are someone has already tried and failed.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If nothing else I really like their simple pricing structure. I wish the others would take note. I've never understood why the value of a card should dictate the price to grade it. That always seemed wrong to me.

Because a flat rate would be much higher than the lowest rate and would create a disincentive to grade less pricey cards. Simple business.

[midmo]

Because a flat rate would be much higher than the lowest rate and would create a disincentive to grade less pricey cards. Simple business.

Fair enough, I guess that makes sense. It doesn't effect me anyway since I've never sent a card in to be graded. Have considered it, but after filling those forms out a couple times I've stopped myself and thought, "eh I don't really care that much". Maybe I'd think differently if I was selling, but I'm just collecting.

[ksabet]

That may be true, but I don't want to be the guinea pig for them. Especially considering the fact I'm only saving $3 over SGC. No thanks but best of luck to you on that.

Am I the only person here who is understanding what Travrosty is getting at?

He is not trying to promote the company or saying they are worth anyones time. He's simply stating that competition is good and that its a shame that no one wants to try new companies but insist on bashing the current ones.

We want change yet as collectors we stick with what we have been doing right or wrong. Because after all we buy the holders not the cards right?

[travrosty]

thats right i am not trying to promote the company, just trying to understand that when the phrase "buy the card not the holder" is bantered around i guess when push comes to shove, it's "buy the holder not the card". thats what i can glean from all of this.

[auggiedoggy]

thats right i am not trying to promote the company, just trying to understand that when the phrase "buy the card not the holder" is bantered around i guess when push comes to shove, it's "buy the holder not the card". thats what i can glean from all of this.

If I see two cards that appear to be high grade and one is in an ISA (or CSA or GAI, etc., etc.) holder and the other is in a PSA holder then damn straight I'm putting my faith in the PSA holder!

[1952boyntoncollector]

thats right i am not trying to promote the company, just trying to understand that when the phrase "buy the card not the holder" is bantered around i guess when push comes to shove, it's "buy the holder not the card". thats what i can glean from all of this.

ive been saying that for the longest time here about buying the holder not the card. is still what predominately happens no matter what people say........nice to see some finally agree with me....

was a thread about me asking to see someone actually on net54 buy a card with a lower grade than a higher grade card in the same auction....we shall see....

if a new company offers insurance or an issue to protect a buyer if a card is bought with the holder and there proves to be a significant defect not worth of the grade and the buyer can be compensated the difference in sale value that would be a good start and no reason to pick psa over them if you truly a buy the card not the holder person...

[pokerplyr80]

ive been saying that for the longest time here about buying the holder not the card. is still what predominately happens no matter what people say........nice to see some finally agree with me....

was a thread about me asking to see someone actually on net54 buy a card with a lower grade than a higher grade card in the same auction....we shall see....

if a new company offers insurance or an issue to protect a buyer if a card is bought with the holder and there proves to be a significant defect not worth of the grade and the buyer can be compensated the difference in sale value that would be a good start and no reason to pick psa over them if you truly a buy the card not the holder person...

Buy the card not the holder is one thing. To me that's just people saying don't overpay for an off center or poor registration card because it has a certain grade. Or don't be afraid to pay more than a certain grade goes for if the card looks great.

It certainly doesn't mean to pay a lot of money for a high end card graded by a company that no one uses. Everyone knows people use these kind of companies to grade cards that don't make it through PSA or SGC. This means someone would have to know nothing about the current market to send a legitimate card into ISA. The only way I would buy one of these high end cards ISA graded is if the seller will accept a return if it won't cross, knowing I'll only be out my time and grading fees.

This has nothing to do with buying the card and not the holder. I just don't want to end up with an expensive fake or altered card.

[travrosty]

Buy the card not the holder is one thing. To me that's just people saying don't overpay for an off center or poor registration card because it has a certain grade. Or don't be afraid to pay more than a certain grade goes for if the card looks great.

It certainly doesn't mean to pay a lot of money for a high end card graded by a company that no one uses. Everyone knows people use these kind of companies to grade cards that don't make it through PSA or SGC. This means someone would have to know nothing about the current market to send a legitimate card into ISA. The only way I would buy one of these high end cards ISA graded is if the seller will accept a return if it won't cross, knowing I'll only be out my time and grading fees.

This has nothing to do with buying the card and not the holder. I just don't want to end up with an expensive fake or altered card.


so you are saying ISA only encapsulates fake or altered cards and the other big companies have done so? Got it.

[bobbyw8469]

so you are saying ISA only encapsulates fake or altered cards and the other big companies have done so? Got it.

uhhh....no...try again.

[bobbyw8469]

i guess when push comes to shove, it's "buy the holder not the card". thats what i can glean from all of this

Buy the card not the holder IS true. However, let's use some common sense here. There is a reason why PRO/GEM/GAI cards don't sell for as much as their PSA/SGC/BVG counterparts.

I equate to finding a Rembrandt. Are you going to pay more for it at Sotheby's or your local mom and pop auction house in a one traffic light town. At least at Sotheby's you can rest easy knowing you are buying the real deal. At the smaller auction house. you have a almost 100% chance that the item is a fake, or if it is not a fake, there is a real good chance the item has issues. I know it is a far-fetched analogy, but it is similar enough that you should get the gist.

[toledo_mudhen]

Couple of random thoughts :

The primary at ISA appears to be a guy named Jason Koonce - Is it my imagination or do I recall Jason being with PSA at one time?

Some of the higher volume consignors appear to be OK with ISA - Probstein (no flames please), Mile High, Rich Gove

It appears top be extremely hard for anyone other than the big 3 to gain a foothold in TPG market as so many have come and gone over the past 20 years. Pretty sure that many of us on the boards have tossed around the idea of creating the next big TPG that would address all of the weaknesses of the existing companies. A cursory look at startup costs on such a venture is quite substantial - add in immediate suspicion of anyone other than the big 3 and you got tuff, tuff, tuff

[tiger8mush]

So I picked up one of these at a more than fair price..... You tell me.....

<a href="http://s875.photobucket.com/user/toledo_mudhen/media/1955Banks85Front_zps5d24fe58.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab318/toledo_mudhen/1955Banks85Front_zps5d24fe58.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 1955Banks85Front_zps5d24fe58.jpg"/></a>



When I matched up that Banks with a PSA 8.5 on ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-TOPPS-ERNIE-BANKS-28-PSA-8-5-NM-MT-HOF-1-5-NO-PSA-10s-CHICAGO-CUBS-/231635099674?hash=item35ee87201a) the two cards appeared to be the same size. I'm no image expert, just cropped and resized the images using a very old Powerpoint (MS Office 2k) until the name "Ernie Banks" on both cards appeared equal, and compared the height and width of each card and they appeared to be equal (considering the tools I was using).

[bobbyw8469]

When I matched up that Banks with a PSA 8.5 on ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-TOPPS-ERNIE-BANKS-28-PSA-8-5-NM-MT-HOF-1-5-NO-PSA-10s-CHICAGO-CUBS-/231635099674?hash=item35ee87201a) the two cards appeared to be the same size. I'm no image expert, just cropped and resized the images using a very old Powerpoint (MS Office 2k) until the name "Ernie Banks" on both cards appeared equal, and compared the height and width of each card and they appeared to be equal (considering the tools I was using).

If you crack it out and send it to one of the big three grader, please let us know the results.

[steve B]

Any new grading company has a tough road ahead, how do they prove their grading unless they get the full range of cards to grade? It's fine to grade a load of commons, but that says nothing about consistency. I often feel that cards of star players or the more "iconic" cards get better grades than similar commons. So having some really nice cards graded would be important. If I was starting one, I'd offer to do some high profile cards for free.

Sure, what holder a card is in makes a difference depending on the reputation of the company. They've all made mistakes. Some legit companies have made far more mistakes than others and that's why they aren't as trusted. Just avoid the really sketchy ones. The ones like the guy "grading" magazine cutouts and pop riveting them into screwdowns aren't legit at all.

But to say "oh if it's PSA I know I can trust the card isn't altered" is only a bit more true than saying that of any of the second tier companies.

Learn enough to trust the one hobby person you should put the most faith in - YOU. The holder doesn't matter, the lack of a holder doesn't matter.

Will you make mistakes? YES. I've been collecting since .....well, not as long as some, but plenty long enough. And I still make mistakes. (Massively overpaid for a stamp this week, but by massively overpaid I mean I paid $5 for a $1 item. ) I've also done fairly well buying ungraded cards even on ebay. It's kinda fun to buy an ungraded common t206 and have it grade as EX :)
I make a lot fewer mistakes now than I did 20-30 years ago. And fewer still than I made back in the 70's.

Steve B

[1952boyntoncollector]

again if a new company offers insurance or issues that deal with trimmed or fraud on the holders etc....that should eliminate a lot of concerns..

When checkers and Sonic were about to open restaurants, did they worry about Burger King or Mcdonalds...there is always room for more.

[pokerplyr80]

so you are saying ISA only encapsulates fake or altered cards and the other big companies have done so? Got it.

That's not what I said at all. I'm saying that no one who knows anything about our hobby would send an expensive card to a company like ISA for authentication when they know it's only going to detract from the value of the card. There's a reason it's in an ISA holder. And unless that reason is someone at ISA graded these cards and then sent them into the market to build their reputation, I'm assuming that someone tried to get it into a PSA or SGC holder and failed.

I hardly think I'm in the minority in my opinion.

[Peter_Spaeth]

That's not what I said at all. I'm saying that no one who knows anything about our hobby would send an expensive card to a company like ISA for authentication when they know it's only going to detract from the value of the card. There's a reason it's in an ISA holder. And unless that reason is someone at ISA graded these cards and then sent them into the market to build their reputation, I'm assuming that someone tried to get it into a PSA or SGC holder and failed.

I hardly think I'm in the minority in my opinion.

They only seem to grade 9s and 10s too. Odd, that.

[brewing]

Uh, they could advertise. A booth at the National perhaps. A social media presence maybe. A popular sports card message board could work.
None of these are cost prohibitive. The lack of doing so is bad business. The lack of business sense from TPGers is astounding.

[toledo_mudhen]

If you crack it out and send it to one of the big three grader, please let us know the results.

The PSA 8.5 is listed at $2500...wow

If that thing sells (6 Watchers) I may have to crack it and send it in to PSA just to see if I can hit the jackpot