What I don't understand about Dealers ...

[SMPEP]

We all know the dealers on Ebay who list the same card, week after week, at the same ridiculous price, and that have basically no chance of ever selling the item.

So I just offered one of these well-known dealers an offer that was well above the average price for the card in that grade according to actual sales (as per cardtarget.com), but significantly below his asking price (I offered $70, the average sales price for over 150 cards in the last 3 years was around $50-55, and his asking price is $130).

We all know he didn't pay $130 for it. We also know he didn't pay $70 for it. So for simple purposes of illustration, let's assume he originally paid $40 for it.

Here's what I don't understand ... why don't dealers understand that card turnover is the most important factor in their success?

Even if he gets his $130 after 3 years (which won't happen), your profit is is $90 ... which divided by 3 years is $30 a year.

So why wouldn't you take a $30 profit after 1 week of listing a card ... and then just buy another card you could make a profit on? If you make just 4 purchases/sales like this in a single year ... you make $120 in one year versus $90 in three years.

And I get holding out for a high price on a really rare card (waiting for the right guy to come in pays for itself then because you can't buy another one and there is no competition from other sellers), but when there have been over 150 Ebay sales over the last 3 years ... this isn't a rarity ... it's a commodity.

What am I missing? Why would you tie up your capital for 3 years with no sale?

[hangman62]

I see the same thing at a monthly local card show I sometimes go to....a well worn 50s Musial card..asking way too much, and has been asking way too much for over 3 yrs !..but there it sits in that old ratty wooden / lock broken/scratched up plexiglass/ case..next to all the rookie cards of Boggs/Clemens/Gooden/Bonds,etc... treasures.. all treasures..to be admired for yrs to come !

[GasHouseGang]

It's really hard to understand their motives. If the dealers don't want to sell their cards, what's the point? I've bought things off of folks on the B/S/T boards on Net54 where I know the individual made literally $10 on the sale. But they buy and sell the items and move on. If you are in it to make a profit it's got to be a volume business. It shouldn't be a museum! I have to assume they just are using some of these cards as window dressing and hoping to sell the unopened boxes and more modern cards that are more easily replaced.

[BradH]

I've wondered about this for a long time and I don't get it.

There was a recent thread where someone asked about quiting their job and trying to become a full-time dealer. One of the posters said that one of the most important things to remember as a dealer is to move cards quickly and keep cash flowing. Sometimes that means taking less of a profit (or no profit) than you might get if you were to hold out for months or years, but at least you're keeping the cash moving.

I don't think a lot of ebay sellers or weekend card show dealers understand this. Or maybe they just don't care. Their overhead is minimal, so maybe they figure they can hold out for that one buyer who might come along eventually and buy their cards....cards that, in reality, are a "dime a dozen" (for lack of a better term).

[darkhorse9]

People charge too much for items like this because....they only need one person to say "yes"

If you're a McDonalds or WalMart and you can make you money on valume then you charge lower prices.

Think of it like you were selling your home. Which is really better for the seller....waiting longer to sell at a profit or sell too cheap to someone else? It's a calculated risk that you have to take sometimes. You, as the buyer, have the ability to say Deal or No Deal.

Who knows, maybe tomorrow someone walks in and buys that card at $130. Then who will look silly then?

[ALR-bishop]

Not exactly sure what a constitutes a dealer in this discussion , versus someone who just regularly buys and sells a lot of cards on ebay, but I always assume if a seller sets a specific price on a card ( with no invitation of a best offer), that's what he wants before he will give up the card, and if he doesn't get it he prefers to keep it. Makes no practical difference to me what his reasons are.

There must be 25 threads or more on CU about why Levi at 707 does what he does. As a buyer only I don't care about his motives or business plan, all I care about is whether he has something I want/need at a price I am willing to pay. If not, I wait :)

[vintagetoppsguy]

What am I missing?

Al nailed it. Just because they sell on eBay doesn't make them a "dealer." I sell on eBay, but by no means am I a dealer. I think you'll find that a lot of them have regular jobs just like you and me and they do this for fun. Ebay is not their primary source of income. If they were a true "dealer" then they would understand how it's necessary to keep turning inventory and about cash flow.

I know that didn't answer your question as to why they do it, I guess maybe the answer is because the can because they do not depend on eBay sales as a source of income - it's just fun for them.

Then, as Al mentioned, you have dealers such as Levi, but I think his situation is a bit different. I don't know him, but from what I understand of him, he doesn't need the money. It's my understanding that he's pretty well to do. I could be way off, but that's what I heard. If that's true, he may have much business savy and understand about turning inventory and cash flow, but may not practice that if he doesn't need the money.

I know it's frustrating when you're looking for a card, but as Al also mentioned, just wait and another one will always come along.

[sycks22]

I love the dealers at shows that put the "book price" then "our price" assuming that a card without a left corner and 241 creases constitutes full book value and their "our price" is usually about 40-50% of full book. I think their hope is that someone just loses it when they see a Mantle or Ruth card, not knowing what the card goes for.

[SMPEP]

When I was saying dealer on Ebay, I was refering to someone like Levi (but not Levi in this case). This person has a brick and mortar store, this is their primary occupation, they go to nationals as a regular seller, etc.

Like I said, I get them sitting on something rare (little competition from other sellers and you can't readily replace it) makes a ton of sense to me.

But something generic like say a 1966 Topps Mickey Mantle (not the card in question but just an example) ... you can find 40 (or more) of them for sale on Ebay every single day of the week. This guy doesn't have the only one in that condition (and never will) and doesn't even have the cheapest one. So I don't understand why you would turn down an offer that is above average for the last 100+ sales in that condition.

Not upset by any means. I have my cash. He has his card. Everything is cool by me. But if I ran a card store, it would seem to me I would take a reasonable offer everytime to flip my inventory and not tie up my capital. I can making a bigger profit through volume on a "generic commodity" like card. On the rare stuff, heck yes, I make more waiting for the right guy to walk in, but not on mass produced Topps cards.

oh ... and this guy will NOT get $130. This card will still be for sale in three years. And that I don't get.

[Deertick]

Think of it like you were selling your home. Which is really better for the seller....waiting longer to sell at a profit or sell too cheap to someone else?

It is nearly always preferable to sell at slightly lower than market value quickly, than waiting for "your price". Emotions lose in a battle against simple mathematics. At least 77% of the time. ;)

[HRBAKER]

He's not a dealer, he's a curator.

I think most people have nailed it. Don't assume he actually cares if he sells the card or not, likely he doesn't. He's looking for a fish or someone willing to pay his price. No harm in that. As David said there is likely something else putting food on his table and paying for his vacation.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Yeah, I agree with much of the analysis. My observation is that many of these curators buy a nice item for their collection, but list it for sale with the mindset "everything has its price".

For example, I'm trying to finish a 1967T Baseball set and I'm down to the five cards tougher cards in the set. Consistent with the population reports its common knowledge that these are the tougher cards. So I've notice that when a decent example shows up for auction on eBay, it's now the dealers that are typically the winners and sure enough those exact cards get relisted at double to three times of what they originally sold for and sit on eBay month after month, beyond a year sometimes. I refuse out of principal to patronize these types even if its the last card I need and it's only $20 or $30 over true market value. Why feed the beast?

To me part of the problem is that Ebay is not charging these hucksters enough to put upon these over-priced relics on display. Double or triple the fees and the real sellers will emerge.

[par4brad]

A friend of mine is a cashier in Vegas. He bought a rare $5 chip for...$5. He is selling it for $2500. He was offered $1200 and did not take it. I asked him why he did not take it and his response was, "I only paid $5 for it. I can hold on to it forever, if I don't get top price". Maybe that's the mentality of some dealers, they didn't pay much for their cards, so no urgency to sell for less.

[Rich Klein]

For the guy with the beat up Musial -- one explanation is... he/she wants to show an old card or two just on that miracle that a vintage collection walks in and with that card in the showcase, someone may show him/her that collection.

I found in my dealing days, that people offered me what I had for sale on my table -- meaning in my "set building" days -- I got offered common/star lots

In my "odd-ball" card days I got offered a wide mix of cards not just basic cards

And every once in a while I would set up with books or periodicals or other types of collectibles and wouldn't you know it,. I'd get offered those type of items at my table

Rich

[savedfrommyspokes]

Having collected for 30+ years, and selling of my duplicates at a pace of 10k+ singles a year on ebay part time, I decided a year ago to do this full time. So far I am on pace to sell almost 75k ungraded cards this year.

The previous point about being a curator and not a seller is 100% correct...if you are not selling cards at a high volume quickly , then there is no profit to be made. 95% of my cards I list are commons and I sell them at the best possible price I can offer them for, and they sell at a point where I sell through my average amount of my inventory 2-3 times per year. Efficiency in listing and shipping is also paramount to selling these commons quickly in order to remain profitable.

The other 5% of inventory I have listed are what I consider lower population cards, such as the 64 Curt Flood card. Price guide shows $6 for a NM card, sells for $75-100 in NM on ebay. These 5% of the cards I have priced to be competitive with the market (not a price guide) and if they do not sell within several months, the best offer feature gets added to the listing and as time passes, the price I will accept is lower. However, I can not count the number of times buyers who bypass the chance to make an offer and have simply purchased the card.