Has (most) everything good been graded

[Touch'EmAll]

I am thinking that 80-90+ percent of all good cards have already been graded by either PSA or SGC. Sure there is the old grandad collection that the relatives just discovered. Or a tiny minority of real collectors refuse to get into grading and keep raw. But that is the exception rather than the rule.

How many PSA 5 or higher T206 Cobb's still sit ungraded, or how many 1933 Ruth's or Gehrig's have yet to make their way into an SGC holder. Or even 1950-60's Hank Aaron cards in PSA 8 or equivalent not yet graded?

You really think one can attend the National or any other large show and pick up rock solid untampered with major vintage HOF'ers ungraded? Really? Or spot that diamond in the rough on ebay that hasn't been trimmed or other?

I just got back from PCGS (coin folks) a submission of early Buffalo nickels - same thing goes for coins. You really think you can steal a deal of a grade suitable key date 1926-S or 1921-S Buffalo nickel? Most coin forums/blogs think fat chance. I did get back a 1915-S Buff in XF40 that is awesome coin, got lucky, but i have to admit several other key dates I submitted came back body bagged with various flaws.

Lesson learned: This day in age, don't even think about it (card/coin) unless it is already graded by reputable third party grader. The odds that you spotted something special raw are worse than any odds in Las Vegas.

Bummer, but true, yes?

[markf31]

I think 80-90 percent is a high number over all. I do think that when a lot of people think about putting a card up on the market, they're more apt to have it graded first as opposed to selling it raw especially if they're not comfortable with their own ability to grade a card. But there is a very large segment of the hobby that do not like graded cards, will not deal in graded cards or will crack the graded cards out and keep them raw.

After attending the sports card show in Pittsburgh just last month, I can tell you that the raw and ungraded market is very much alive and well in the hobby and I think it's a great thing. From the Pittsburgh show I would venture a guess that perhaps the split is closer to 50-50 for prewar issues. The sets I'm currently collecting T205, 1934 Goudey and 1948 Leaf, raw cards dominated and outnumbered graded examples.

[travrosty]

I think 80-90 percent is a high number over all. I do think that when a lot of people think about putting a card up on the market, they're more apt to have it graded first as opposed to selling it raw especially if they're not comfortable with their own ability to grade a card. But there is a very large segment of the hobby that do not like graded cards, will not deal in graded cards or will crack the graded cards out and keep them raw.

After attending the sports card show in Pittsburgh just last month, I can tell you that the raw and ungraded market is very much alive and well in the hobby and I think it's a great thing. From the Pittsburgh show I would venture a guess that perhaps the split is closer to 50-50 for prewar issues. The sets I'm currently collecting T205, 1934 Goudey and 1948 Leaf, raw cards dominated and outnumbered graded examples.



i agree, there is a number of nice ungraded cards out there.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Aloha,I think that the vast majority of pre wwII cards have NOT been graded. Of course there is no way to know for sure but my guess is maybe only 10% are graded. I havent been to a card show for many many years but those who go to a lot of them probably see 100 t-206s for every graded one. jmho. dave

[Touch'EmAll]

I scoured ebay this morning looking for mid/high grade vintage major HOF'ers raw - not one single raw card I would consider purchasing that I honestly felt, yes, this is a very nice untampered with grade worthy card of Matty, W.Johnson, Cobb, Ruth, few others.

Maybe you guys on east coast have more shows with honest dealers in raw cards, not where I live, and certainly not on ebay.

Also look at major auction catalogs - Goodwin, REA, nothing for sale raw in higher grade.

Possibly yes for lower grades 1 thru 4, but higher grades no.

If you were to take total of all PSA 5 or higher Red T206 Cobb's, multiply that by, say, 5-10, then there would be hundreds in nice grade still raw? Come on.

Remember, we are not talking commons, wee are not talking low grades, we are talking high grade upper tier HOF'ers.

Right now, an average year Hank Aaron PSA 8 has population little over 200. So you are saying that in a decade or so we may see a 1963 Aaron PSA 8 with population upwards of 800-1000? Again, come on.

[travrosty]

I scoured ebay this morning looking for mid/high grade vintage major HOF'ers raw - not one single raw card I would consider purchasing that I honestly felt, yes, this is a very nice untampered with grade worthy card of Matty, W.Johnson, Cobb, Ruth, few others.

Maybe you guys on east coast have more shows with honest dealers in raw cards, not where I live, and certainly not on ebay.

Also look at major auction catalogs - Goodwin, REA, nothing for sale raw in higher grade.

Possibly yes for lower grades 1 thru 4, but higher grades no.

If you were to take total of all PSA 5 or higher Red T206 Cobb's, multiply that by, say, 5-10, then there would be hundreds in nice grade still raw? Come on.

Remember, we are not talking commons, wee are not talking low grades, we are talking high grade upper tier HOF'ers.


there are millions of cards out there, and waaaay less than .1% on ebay. most nice cards are in peoples attics or collections, and not up for sale. when people want to put them up for sale, then they have them graded and slabbed, but there are a lot ungraded and unslabbed in nice condition because they are in a collection with someone who is not considering selling at this time. Lots of people with unfiinished sets who will probably only get them graded after they are finished and consider selling, not before. just my opinion.

[egbeachley]

For pre-war, I would say around 30%. If someone had a collection 10 years ago, it would not have been graded. If they still have that collection and aren't considering selling it anytime soon, then it's still not graded. I don't think it's unreasonable for collections to remain 'hidden' for 30 years or more.

[Touch'EmAll]

If one is a high-end collector, as is myself - with no intent to sell, as is myself - I see (IMO) that the dude will at least send them in for obvious reasons:

a) wouldn't collector want to know if their cards are legit?
b) encapsulating is extra protection against damage
c) would then be ready to sell if opportunity/need arises
d) could unload non-legit cards to keep collection high-end
e) can now be on "registry" - not 4 me but folks do like it
f) have more pride in their overall collection

Everybody has an opinion - I value all your input - thanks.

[Jaybird]

Just my opinions - not speaking for all...

a) I can authenticate from personal knowledge and hobby friends
b) top loader provides as much protection as plastic
c) grade if and when sale happens (I'm not in a rush), if necessary
d) don't understand what this means
e) not interested
f) pride? I think they are fun but not sure I derive pride from the cards.

[Republicaninmass]

there are millions of cards out there, and waaaay less than .1% on ebay. most nice cards are in peoples attics or collections, and not up for sale.


Beacause there are huge finds every week...again COME ON There might be a handful of Nagy's or Lionel Carter type collectors, but certainly not more than 5-10. When was the last big find of anything pre 1952? Go to a card show, there are hardly any nice raw pre-war cards, maybe at the nationa lthings are different, but I would say 50% of everything is graded, and 90% of people know what they have, or think it is worth much more than it is

[Touch'EmAll]

OK, I give, you guys are killing me. Guess my opinion is way off base. Maybe coins are much different than cards.

I wanna be shopping where you guys are shopping - have my bank roll wad of $100.'s ready to go.

I would love to see that stack of ungraded T206 Walter Johnson's in legit PSA 5, 6 & 7 raw. Would be a sight for my sore eyes.

[Exhibitman]

I think the only safe conclusion is that lots of cards offered for sale are slabbed, but there is simply no way of knowing anything more. Ebay is not a good measure since by definition it is self-selected to people who want to sell and whose motivation is to maximize their return by slabbing grade-worthy cards.

The vast majority of my collection is raw. I have no need and no interest in slabbed cards unless it is to match with an already-slabbed partial set or to protect a delicate item, or to sell. In fact, I often crack out newly-acquired cards from slabs to put them in the albums with their brethren so I can enjoy them all together [I also scan and print out laser copies of slabbed cards as placeholders in albums if I don't want to cut them out of their tombs, but that is another story...].

Lots of 'advanced' collectors I know simply do not want to spend the money and go through the hassles of having their cards encapsulated, the difficulties of storing them, the hassle of handling them in slabs, etc. I know one collector who had $10,000 cards sitting in binders with the rest of his sets. People in that position have no plans to sell and no need to have their cards blessed by someone else. They also figure [correctly] that if they ever decide to liquidate their collections the auctioneers will have to eat the cost of slabbing.

[Bosox Blair]

Lots and lots ungraded.

As a small note, Mark Macrae is a dealer (West coast, not East) with an enormous inventory of all ungraded cards. Just sayin...

And regarding the 2011 National, two of my really nice pickups were a raw W600 in pretty high grade, and a raw V128 Paulin's Candy Newsy Lalonde (major hockey HOFer). I took both cards to the SGC booth and they both graded on-site with no problems. So you can find significant (relatively expensive) pre-war cards at the National that are not graded...and not hiding any problems either.

Cheers,
Blair

[HRBAKER]

There are those high grade cards yet to be created, which obviously haven't been graded yet.

[markf31]

I would love to see that stack of ungraded T206 Walter Johnson's in legit PSA 5, 6 & 7 raw. Would be a sight for my sore eyes.

Let's be honest now, you don't find "stacks" of PSA 6 & 7 graded T206 Johnsons either.

[Touch'EmAll]

Mark - my point exactly - you just don't see this kind of stuff often, either raw or graded, and when you do its 9 out of 10 times graded - ungraded high end cards, especially raw, are almost never seen anymore.

For all those folks who claim there are tons, and millions out there, I would like to buy raw 1920's Exhibits of Ruth, Gehrig and Hornsby in equivalent PSA 5 and higher. PM me with your list and I will pay you top dollar.

[Jaybird]

The stuff you see is the stuff for sale. That's it. Why are you assuming that everything that is out there is for sale? As Adam stated, the only conclusion you can draw is that out of the stuff for sale, 90% is graded.

Many, many cards out there in people's collections that is not for sale even with an offer on the table. Trust me. There are some cards I've been pestering people about that just aren't going to come out of their collections.

So, just because you see a catalog with cards in it or a table with cards on it or ebay with cards listed that are 90% graded doesn't mean that's all there is.

[Bicem]

Just my opinions - not speaking for all...

a) I can authenticate from personal knowledge and hobby friends
b) top loader provides as much protection as plastic
c) grade if and when sale happens (I'm not in a rush), if necessary
d) don't understand what this means
e) not interested
f) pride? I think they are fun but not sure I derive pride from the cards.

+1

Although I do take a little pride in my (raw) collection.

[Touch'EmAll]

I agree - "...out of the stuff for sale, 90% is graded."

perhaps I should have reworded my original post with that specific contingency.

[Jaybird]

+1

Although I do take a little pride in my (raw) collection.

I was thinking about it and I do as well. Point taken.

[Matthew H]

If you are going to judge whether or not everything good is graded by looking at eBay and your own collecting habits, then yes, everything good is graded.

[Bugsy]

The stuff you see is the stuff for sale. That's it. Why are you assuming that everything that is out there is for sale? As Adam stated, the only conclusion you can draw is that out of the stuff for sale, 90% is graded.

Many, many cards out there in people's collections that is not for sale even with an offer on the table. Trust me. There are some cards I've been pestering people about that just aren't going to come out of their collections.

So, just because you see a catalog with cards in it or a table with cards on it or ebay with cards listed that are 90% graded doesn't mean that's all there is.

Perfectly said. I know of many extremely nice cards that aren't slabbed. They have been in private collections for 20 + years. If they were to ever be sold, they would likely get slabbed, but there is a TON of stuff out there in personal collections that aren't in slabs right now. People just don't know about them because they aren't sitting on eBay with a high BIN.

[ScottFandango]

as there are several self proclaimed CRACKERS on this board, there will always be a supply of nice RAW cards since these people decrease the numbers of slabbed cards...

now when they or their kids try to sell these CRACKED cards, they will surely garner less interest and value than if they left them slabbed...

smelling cards is overrated, and gross

[jcmtiger]

I know of 4 or 5 old time collectors that have great collections of pre war cards, sports and non sports and they are not graded, so I think your number is high.

Joe

[Deertick]

there are millions of cards out there, and waaaay less than .1% on ebay. most nice cards are in peoples attics or collections, and not up for sale. when people want to put them up for sale, then they have them graded and slabbed, but there are a lot ungraded and unslabbed in nice condition because they are in a collection with someone who is not considering selling at this time. Lots of people with unfiinished sets who will probably only get them graded after they are finished and consider selling, not before. just my opinion.

+1

Dead on. Just because a high percentage of cards for sale have been graded, does not translate to the universe of cards in existance.

[RUSH2112]

I keep all my cards ungraded cards in glassine envelopes.

I envision a day in 10 or 20 years where sportscard collectors become horrified to find out that the chemicals in the hard plastic slabs actually breakdown and cause damage to the card stock.

These plastic holders, likely made in China, from a long list of chemicals, have only been around for 10 years or so we really don't know the long term effects.

I hope none of you high end graded speciman collectors, lose the ability to have a peacefull sleep tonight. These were not my intentions.

[SetBuilder]

I keep all my cards ungraded cards in glassine envelopes.

I envision a day in 10 or 20 years where sportscard collectors become horrified to find out that the chemicals in the hard plastic slabs actually breakdown and cause damage to the card stock.

These plastic holders, likely made in China, from a long list of chemicals, have only been around for 10 years or so we really don't know the long term effects.

I hope none of you high end graded speciman collectors, lose the ability to have a peacefull sleep tonight. These were not my intentions.

You may want to alert Lucious and Spence about the possible chemical reactions of plastic on their prestine collections.

This thread is entertaining though.

The ungraded card snobs vs. the Slab elitists.

[Touch'EmAll]

I just chose 5 completely random semi high-end cards and looked up the PSA approx. pops in grade 5 and higher:

1915 Cracker Jack Mathewson = 60
1916 M101-4 Sporting News Cobb = 20
T206 Piedmont W. Johnson hands chest = 25
1933 Goudey #53 Ruth = 150
1949 Bowman Satchell Paige = 310

Now what are your guesses as to legit PSA 5 and higher non-graded? If you multiply each by 5 you would get:

1915 CJ Matty = 300
1916 SportNews Cobb = 100
T206 Piedmont W.Johnson = 125
1933 Goudey Ruth = 750
1949 Bowman Paige = 1,500+

Are these the type of true worldly non-graded pops for these random chosen cards?

[Matthew H]

You may want to alert Lucious and Spence about the possible chemical reactions of plastic on their prestine collections.

This thread is entertaining though.

The ungraded card snobs vs. the Slab elitists.

Spence might be more worried about the cards damaging the plastic.

Lol and Jk

[steve B]

I just chose 5 completely random semi high-end cards and looked up the PSA approx. pops in grade 5 and higher:

1915 Cracker Jack Mathewson = 60
1916 M101-4 Sporting News Cobb = 20
T206 Piedmont W. Johnson hands chest = 25
1933 Goudey #53 Ruth = 150
1949 Bowman Satchell Paige = 310

Now what are your guesses as to legit PSA 5 and higher non-graded? If you multiply each by 5 you would get:

1915 CJ Matty = 300
1916 SportNews Cobb = 100
T206 Piedmont W.Johnson = 125
1933 Goudey Ruth = 750
1949 Bowman Paige = 1,500+

Are these the type of true worldly non-graded pops for these random chosen cards?

I believe that's likely to be about right.

The CJ and sporting News are probably a bit tougher than 5x, the T206 and Goudey very close, and the 49 Paige probably a bit easier than 5x.

I collect some stuff that's very close to those for numbers existing in total, and there's very little grading yet. Those things come up for sale about as often as any of those cards raw in 5 or better. Not often, but not impossible -even on Ebay.

Steve B

[FrankWakefield]

No, most of the good stuff isn't graded.

No, an old collector doesn't need slabs to know his cards are legit, or for protection.

Before Mr. Carter decided to sell his cards, did he have any good ones and were they graded. Yes and no... And there are a few hundred more Mr. Carter's out there who know more than the graders and have no use for grading.

[SetBuilder]

No, most of the good stuff isn't graded.

No, an old collector doesn't need slabs to know his cards are legit, or for protection.

Before Mr. Carter decided to sell his cards, did he have any good ones and were they graded. No and no... And there are a few hundred more Mr. Carter's out there who know more than the graders and have no use for grading.

That's because Lionel Carter was born in 1918 and started collecting cards in 1933 before slabs and computers were invented.

Had Carter been born in 1982, all his cards would have been slabbed and on the PSA registry.

Fact.

[Brian Van Horn]

Has (most) everything good been graded

No.

[cobblove]

Yes 110% has been graded.
So please stop looking.

[FrankWakefield]

1982.... ugh.

My Cardinals won the World Series that year, I went to game 2. 1982, would be 30 years ago, I have socks older than that.

There's a bunch of collectors who have the old and good stuff that are half that old again. But you make a point... the young collectors have bought into the grading and registry stuff, the old collectors haven't, to a similar extent. 2 collectors of old stuff, one's 75 and the other is 35, which one you reckon has more old stuff?

[Leon]

That's because Lionel Carter was born in 1918 and started collecting cards in 1933 before slabs and computers were invented.

Had Carter been born in 1982, all his cards would have been slabbed and on the PSA registry.

Fact.


I politely disagree. Nothing against PSA but knowing of how Lionel collected he would have used BVG's authentication only service, without numerical grades, to protect his cards. He collected cards and I don't think he would have collected plastic. And saying something is "fact" as you did shows a lack of understanding.

[Touch'EmAll]

So with all these varied opinions of ours, who is willing to step up to the plate and make an educated guess as to actual tangible numbers? I listed 5 random cards in earlier thread with approx PSA pops in 5+ condition grade.

Question: How can we use these figures to extrapolate some actual surviving copies of these cards in legit PSA 5 and higher - that are not encapsulated? I started with a multiple of 5. Too high? Too low?

Do you folks really think there could be 1,500 legit 1949 Bowman Paige's (PSA 5+ equivalent) sitting around in collections by folks that refuse to get them graded?

The coin industry (PCGS company) has already attempted this "survival" for coins a) of all graded, b)mint only coins. Go check out PCGS web and check out their coin "survival" rates. Will PSA or SGC ever try to duplicate this survival estimate like PCGS does with coins?

[markf31]

The coin industry (PCGS company) has already attempted this "survival" for coins a) of all graded, b)mint only coins. Go check out PCGS web and check out their coin "survival" rates. Will PSA or SGC ever try to duplicate this survival estimate like PCGS does with coins?

I think one of the inherent problems with translating this to the card industry is that there are probably very well kept records in regards to US circulation numbers regarding coins. So extrapolating a "survival" number for a coin can be accomplished. We know how many were produced/minted and how many have been graded, so pulling together numbers is pretty straight forward.

But in the card industry production numbers, especially for vintage pre-war cards are non-existent. We have no idea how many were produced. When you you don't know how many were produced and distributed, coming up with a "survival" number is impossible.

[Touch'EmAll]

Look at our hobbies most iconic card - the T206 Wagner.

How many (legit copies) are still out there ungraded in someones collection that has no want to sell, and no desire for their T206 Wagner to be encapsulated? Double current pops? Triple? 5 times current pop figures?

Seems like an event for celebration and national news worthy story whenever one beater is discovered on rare occasion ever few years. But a PSA 5+ T206 Wagner ungraded - just can't imagine a whole lot exist.

[Matthew H]

Look at our hobbies most iconic card - the T206 Wagner.

How many (legit copies) are still out there ungraded in someones collection that has no want to sell, and no desire for their T206 Wagner to be encapsulated? Double current pops? Triple? 5 times current pop figures?

Seems like an event for celebration and national news worthy story whenever one beater is discovered on rare occasion ever few years. But a PSA 5+ T206 Wagner ungraded - just can't imagine a whole lot exist.

Most of the better examples of the t206 Wagner are un-graded. Everyone knows that. I'm surprised you don't, considering that you think you know enough to post in a thread like this.

Also, many cards are consigned to auction companies raw. The auction house will submit them to grading companies if they feel it will maximize profit. This is why all good cards in the catalog are graded.

On another note, I was born in 1980 and I think stabbing cards is totally lame, I tried it and don't like it. So I don't think you can state "facts" about what other collectors will do if they were doing their thing at a different time.

[Touch'EmAll]

I have been asking, "how many do you think" type questions - not many tangible responses from all you folks in the know, just a lot of jabs at me.

sorry - just trying to have an informative chat - guess I don't know very much

[ullmandds]

Perhaps the reason is that most of these questions have already been asked and discussed in the past. A simple search through the archives will probably give you many of the answers you seek.

Additionally many of the questions posed here have no answers. Only guesses.

[Matthew H]

I didn't reply until you mentioned the Wagner thing. There are only a few graded above 2 in PSA reports and, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the Drier example was only recently graded. The best examples out there are still raw.

[travrosty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kZG5QGGG0E&list=UULE7yWyhsMcB-8aqV3cJ_Gw&index=8&feature=plcp


go to the 4 minute mark and watch mr mint buy album after album after album of ungraded superb cards. There are lots of collectors out there like this. jilliions of them. whether it is pre wwii or just after, lots of guys collect CARDS, I know it is a novel concept.

[Paul S]

I have been asking, "how many do you think" type questions - not many tangible responses from all you folks in the know, just a lot of jabs at me.

sorry - just trying to have an informative chat - guess I don't know very much

...much in the way in the way of "jabs" toward you at all. These responses come from some very knowledgeable people. Is it possible that their responses are just not the answers you anticipated?

[birdman42]

I've been collecting since the early 80s. At the time (pre-Internet and eBay) I picked up cards at shows, from collectors, and through ads in the trade papers.

I bought things that were in the intersection between what I was interested in, what appealed to me, and what I could afford. At that time, type cards weren't all that hot--e135s, anyone?--so you could get high-quality cards for not much money. I took advantage of that.

In the years since, I've paid to have exactly three cards graded--an SGC 70 Buchner (for protection), and a couple '54 Topps (because they were nice but didn't fit my interests any more and I thought I could get more for them in slabs). My other cards rest in penny sleeves inside top-loaders. They'll probably stay that way until it's time for my heirs to break everything up.

There are two main reasons for me leaving things ungraded. First, I've learned enough about cards that I have my own opinions as to quality. Second, would I rather spend $500 to have a pile of cards graded, or to buy more cards? Duh. Some folks would prefer to have their cards graded. I've seen pics on here of wonderful displays of graded cards.

I have what some folks here would call an "armpit" collection, but I do enjoy it. Multiply me by many times, and you do get quite a few high-quality cards that are in collections but not slabbed.

Then there are the items that aren't in collections yet. Think of the "finds" from the last few years: Skydash's incredible group of Colgans, the Oregon Old Judges, etc. They all ended up in slabs. I do believe that this trend will lead to a greater and greater proportion of "good" cards ending up in slabs.

Question for those among us who prefer that their cards breathe freely: Are your convictions so strong that you'll insist that the cards be sold unslabbed after you're gone?

Just one perspective,

Bill

[tbob]

I have several pretty nice complete sets 205, 206 minus Big 4, 207, 212-1, 212-2, T212-3 and T212-4, etc which are all ungraded. I slab all my caramels, post 1919 cards and T210s but I have many unslabbed sets and some of those cards would grade very highly. To say most of the nice pre-war cards are graded is just wrong.

[Bugsy]

Second, would I rather spend $500 to have a pile of cards graded, or to buy more cards? Duh.

That says it all.

[GasHouseGang]

That's always been my take as well. I'd rather spend money on more cards than grading fees. I didn't even own any graded cards until they became the norm on ebay. The cards I collected over the years were never graded. It's hard to justify the cost until you want to sell something. However, I do have to add I wouldn't buy any expensive card from ebay that wasn't graded.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by birdman42
Second, would I rather spend $500 to have a pile of cards graded, or to buy more cards? Duh.

That says it all.


not using the $500 for grading, you heirs will lose thousands in potential profits, rather short sighted, but I see the point.

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by birdman42
Second, would I rather spend $500 to have a pile of cards graded, or to buy more cards? Duh.

That says it all.


not using the $500 for grading, you heirs will lose thousands in potential profits, rather short sighted, but I see the point.

I'm a collector, not a dealer. They can be slabbed if/when they are sold. I keep detailed notes on every item in my collection. My heirs would have all the information they would ever need to conduct a fully-informed sale. Nothing shortsighted about it.

[Bicem]

Question for those among us who prefer that their cards breathe freely: Are your convictions so strong that you'll insist that the cards be sold unslabbed after you're gone?




Heck no! I just choose to enjoy my collection raw while I own it, whenever I decide to sell something I have it graded. That's just dumb to leave money on the table.

[HercDriver]

I'm a VERY insignificant collector, but probably not out of the ordinary. I have a complete T205 set (208 cards), with only one graded card (Cicotte). My guess is that there are many collectors with similar numbers to that...

Take Care,
Geno

[pcoz]

I think there are a lot of cards still ungraded. But, anyone trying to guess percentages is silly. I have some raw cards, but almost all of mine are graded. I think the card companies do a great job, and I don't have to question the authenticity or damaging them. I have mostly caramels, and they're prone to chipping. So, enjoying them in a solid holder is my personal preference. Also, I think it would be unwise to buy or sell any cards that have significant value ungraded, unless you really know the provenance of the card.

[Exhibitman]

Question for those among us who prefer that their cards breathe freely: Are your convictions so strong that you'll insist that the cards be sold unslabbed after you're gone?



Ah, to have "convictions so strong that you'll insist that the cards be sold unslabbed after you're gone" would be a neat trick to pull off. Of course, if I could make demands on the living after I died I would be a ghost, zombie or vampire at the time so the executor of my estate would likely be too busy driving a stake through my heart and cutting off my head or otherwise trying to put me back in the grave to pay much attention to my comments about my cards.

But seriously, isn't your whole premise a silly one? Do you really expect anyone to write into their wills a prohibition on their executors slabbing their cards for resale, because that's the only way it would happen. I've seen some pretty specific estate plans but never anything as asinine as that.

[KyleTexas]

My Addie Joss/Pitching/Red Hindu Back ....

1. None Graded by PSA
2. None Graded by SGC

This is assuming their Population Reports are correct. None are showing ever graded by either grading company.


There is a picture of it on another thread currently ... post #22:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=152492&page=3

[Bicem]

My Addie Joss/Pitching/Red Hindu Back ....

1. None Graded by PSA
2. None Graded by SGC

This is assuming their Population Reports are correct. None are showing ever graded by either grading company.


There is a picture of it on another thread currently ... post #22:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=152492&page=3

Do you need help selling it? ;)

[markf31]

Originally Posted by birdman42
Second, would I rather spend $500 to have a pile of cards graded, or to buy more cards? Duh.

That says it all.


not using the $500 for grading, you heirs will lose thousands in potential profits, rather short sighted, but I see the point.

I've observed that in general, the difference in realized sales of graded vs non-graded is significant with the stars and high value cards. When you start to get into "commons" the price difference shrinks to almost nothing, and in many cases you would lose money in the end.

I'm working on a T205 set in the VG range. Graded commons in PSA 3 or SGC 40 sell on average for the same price as a raw card that I determine to be VG ($35-$45). If I were to spend $10 to get that raw card graded, I would actually lose money on the deal.

[Touch'EmAll]

May I inquire in a very polite and friendly manner - what are you best guesstimate (however silly) on approx ungraded pops on the 5 random high end cards I listed earlier in this thread (qualify for PSA 5 or higher grades). For 1915 CJ Matty, M101 Cobb, 1933 #53 Ruth, T206 W.Johnson & 1949 Bowman Satchell.

I may not know as much as some of you. I value your opinions.

Perhaps 5 times graded quantities? Less? More? One dude chimed in and said about 5 times seemed like a good number - thank you for your guess. Other educated guesses welcome. The more educated guesses we get, the more we may all know.

Just want to learn more - Thanks.

[Exhibitman]

The guesses aren't educated; it is impossible to fill in the denominator of the equation.

[Bicem]

The guesses aren't educated; it is impossible to fill in the denominator of the equation.

maybe for you it is Adam, the answer is...

http://www.thepoisonforest.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/equations_moyer.jpg

[Jaybird]

:D

[Exhibitman]

Har dee har har

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/dropins/500x_honeymooners_kramden_alice_cotd.jpg