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View Full Version : NEED YOUR HELP! Looking for the owners or an owner of this ball


BrandonG
06-05-2012, 02:14 AM
Hey guys, I'm wrapping up most of the baseball pages photography wise in my book with the exception of the early 1880's-1890's Spalding Official league Ball. This ball would have been used at the beginning of the National League and one of Spalding's first baseballs. I have been sent images of these two baseballs, but never high enough resolution or all of the panels to properly research them, and never with owner contact info so I could get proper photographs.

Does anyone out there own one of these baseballs? Or know of someone who might have one? This is a very important part of the History of the Base Ball, and sharing is a good thing! Last guy I spoke with didn't want the public to see what he had for fear of counterfeiting, but that's not fair to the people who want to learn and I thought selfish. Any help on your part won't go unrewarded!

Thanks guys.

Splinte1941
06-05-2012, 06:56 AM
The fact that the guy didn't want to share something with you is in no way selfish. The dude has his own reasons that are as legitimate as your reasons why you think he should help. That fact that you're putting a book together in no way obligates anyone to help you, whether compensation is offered or not.

Some of you guys kill me.

Leon
06-05-2012, 07:28 AM
The fact that the guy didn't want to share something with you is in no way selfish. The dude has his own reasons that are as legitimate as your reasons why you think he should help. That fact that you're putting a book together in no way obligates anyone to help you, whether compensation is offered or not.

Some of you guys kill me.

I understand what you are saying and of course agree somewhat. That being said you sure don't have a tactful way about you. Not that you need to but sometimes you might think about your brash posting style. Honey gets more bees than vinegar. There won't be any rule or reprimand for your style, I think it's just you, but you might just give it some thought. As I have aged I have mellowed a bit.......and it's a better thing overall. (and helps keep my blood pressure down too)

thetruthisoutthere
06-05-2012, 08:48 AM
I understand what you are saying and of course agree somewhat. That being said you sure don't have a tactful way about you. Not that you need to but sometimes you might think about your brash posting style. Honey gets more bees than vinegar. There won't be any rule or reprimand for your style, I think it's just you, but you might just give it some thought. As I have aged I have mellowed a bit.......and it's a better thing overall. (and helps keep my blood pressure down too)

Leon, I agree. Brandon goes out of his way to help anyone who requests his expertise.

Jake, there was no reason for you to be so crude in your reply to Brandon's request. Brandon didn't make a demand, he politely asked for help and offered compensation.

Splinte1941
06-05-2012, 10:37 AM
I understand what you are saying and of course agree somewhat. That being said you sure don't have a tactful way about you. Not that you need to but sometimes you might think about your brash posting style. Honey gets more bees than vinegar. There won't be any rule or reprimand for your style, I think it's just you, but you might just give it some thought. As I have aged I have mellowed a bit.......and it's a better thing overall. (and helps keep my blood pressure down too)

I hear you and will take it under advisement.

RichardSimon
06-05-2012, 10:56 AM
Leon, I agree. Brandon goes out of his way to help anyone who requests his expertise.

Jake, there was no reason for you to be so crude in your reply to Brandon's request. Brandon didn't make a demand, he politely asked for help and offered compensation.

+1

Splinte1941
06-05-2012, 11:21 AM
Leon, I agree. Brandon goes out of his way to help anyone who requests his expertise.

Jake, there was no reason for you to be so crude in your reply to Brandon's request. Brandon didn't make a demand, he politely asked for help and offered compensation.

No, he said how frustrated he was with the guy he talked to and called him selfish because he wouldn't provide help. Did you read his post?

And whether or not Brandon goes out of his way to help people is totally irrelevant to the point he made about this guy.

To paraphrase Rick Pitino, the air of entitlement around here stinks!

Wymers Auction
06-05-2012, 11:44 AM
I actually agree with all of you on this. I think Jake makes a good point, but a little tactfulness would go along way.

RichardSimon
06-05-2012, 12:04 PM
Brandon has been paying it forward, seemingly for a long time .
He has been courteous and helpful to me.
I guess he thought others were like that.
Some are, some are not.

thecatspajamas
06-05-2012, 12:05 PM
No, he said how frustrated he was with the guy he talked to and called him selfish because he wouldn't provide help. Did you read his post?

And whether or not Brandon goes out of his way to help people is totally irrelevant to the point he made about this guy.

To paraphrase Rick Pitino, the air of entitlement around here stinks!

The guy has the ball needed, but doesn't want to let it be shown in public. That's pretty much the definition of selfishness, which describes the action, not the person in this case. The owner of the ball has a very real concern that if made public, it would be duplicated/replicated/counterfeited, which would in turn reduce the value/prestige of his own original. This can and has been done, so whether we agree with the decision or not, I would call it "justified selfishness" in this case.

That doesn't make it any less frustrating for Brandon, who has put a LOT of work into his upcoming book, freely shared his knowledge at every turn, and (in my experience) shows equal parts fairness and gratitude when obtaining any piece needed for the book. I personally have never gotten a sense of "entitlement" from him. Much the opposite in fact, as he has been gracious to a fault at every turn, whether there was any exchange of goods or I was simply plying him for information.

Many of us here on the boards have been anxiously awaiting Brandon's upcoming book, and if photographing this ball is the last major obstacle to realizing that goal, add my voice to those bemoaning the only example he has located being locked up out of sight. I understand the owner's hesitance, but in this case, I will indulge the closest thing to complaining that I have heard from Brandon.

thetruthisoutthere
06-05-2012, 12:08 PM
Brandon has been paying it forward for a long time seemingly.
He has been courteous and helpful to me.
I guess he thought others were like that.
Some are, some are not.

+1

Splinte1941
06-05-2012, 12:18 PM
The guy has the ball needed, but doesn't want to let it be shown in public. That's pretty much the definition of selfishness, which describes the action, not the person in this case. The owner of the ball has a very real concern that if made public, it would be duplicated/replicated/counterfeited, which would in turn reduce the value/prestige of his own original. This can and has been done, so whether we agree with the decision or not, I would call it "justified selfishness" in this case.

That doesn't make it any less frustrating for Brandon, who has put a LOT of work into his upcoming book, freely shared his knowledge at every turn, and (in my experience) shows equal parts fairness and gratitude when obtaining any piece needed for the book. I personally have never gotten a sense of "entitlement" from him. Much the opposite in fact, as he has been gracious to a fault at every turn, whether there was any exchange of goods or I was simply plying him for information.

Many of us here on the boards have been anxiously awaiting Brandon's upcoming book, and if photographing this ball is the last major obstacle to realizing that goal, add my voice to those bemoaning the only example he has located being locked up out of sight. I understand the owner's hesitance, but in this case, I will indulge the closest thing to complaining that I have heard from Brandon.

We'll agree to disagree Lance. The dude is not being selfish in the least. Protective, paranoid, concerned maybe, but not selfish. He might even be smart in this instance. I'm not trying to argue semantics here, but Brandon asked for a favor, he was denied, so he branded the guy selfish. Sorry, I'm not buying your rationalization on this one. And it absolutely describes the person! He's the one making the decision not to give Brandon the information!

EDIT: And I will be buying this book, regardless of my comments here or the outcome of this thing.

Leon
06-05-2012, 12:54 PM
We'll agree to disagree Lance. The dude is not being selfish in the least. Protective, paranoid, concerned maybe, but not selfish. He might even be smart in this instance. I'm not trying to argue semantics here, but Brandon asked for a favor, he was denied, so he branded the guy selfish. Sorry, I'm not buying your rationalization on this one. And it absolutely describes the person! He's the one making the decision not to give Brandon the information!

EDIT: And I will be buying this book, regardless of my comments here or the outcome of this thing.

Jake- there is a difference between acting mean and being mean. Just as there is a difference between being a selfish person and acting selfishly. One describes an act and one describes a person. The two can intertwine but not necessarily. I am in the camp of the person with the ball is acting in a selfish manner. (understanding all of the other issues surrounding it.) I do the same things on the card side of the hobby. I might not let every single piece of information about a fake card out of the bag but I will bend over backwards to help. This person is in no way shape or form obligated to help but it would be nice if he did. (while still protecting himself)

Splinte1941
06-05-2012, 12:59 PM
Jake- there is a difference between acting mean and being mean. Just as there is a difference between being a selfish person and acting selfishly. One describes an act and one describes a person. The two can intertwine but not necessarily. I am in the camp of the person with the ball is acting in a selfish manner. (understanding all of the other issues surrounding it.) I do the same things on the card side of the hobby. I might not let every single piece of information about a fake card out of the bag but I will bend over backwards to help. This person is in no way shape or form obligated to help but it would be nice if he did. (while still protecting himself)

I agree with you 100%. It would be nice if the dude would help Brandon, and while I don't think Brandon is calling him selfish by nature, I tend to not want to use that word at all in this case. He's being more cautious than anything. It's only selfish because Brandon isn't getting satisfaction here. Once that ball gets counterfeited, the guy can't sleep at night, and where does that leave him?? I agree that the chances of it happening are slim (maybe) but Brandon has his complete book while this guy is a wreck.

And the fact that he's turning down renumeration of some kind makes him even less selfish in my eyes.

Leon
06-05-2012, 01:11 PM
I agree with you 100%. It would be nice if the dude would help Brandon, and while I don't think Brandon is calling him selfish by nature, I tend to not want to use that word at all in this case. He's being more cautious than anything. It's only selfish because Brandon isn't getting satisfaction here. Once that ball gets counterfeited, the guy can't sleep at night, and where does that leave him?? I agree that the chances of it happening are slim (maybe) but Brandon has his complete book while this guy is a wreck.

And the fact that he's turning down renumeration of some kind makes him even less selfish in my eyes.

Those are fair statements. Although I should add that if he were to help Brandon he would be helping a greater cause, that being the hobby. I have to believe there is a way to help but still protect himself. I know I could do it (and have).

Splinte1941
06-05-2012, 01:14 PM
Those are fair statements. Although I should add that if he were to help Brandon he would be helping a greater cause, that being the hobby. I have to believe there is a way to help but still protect himself. I know I could do it (and have).

Leon, we are kindred spirits who can regularly find common ground. :D

BrandonG
06-05-2012, 02:41 PM
Wow! Being on the west coast has it's downsides to getting up 3 hours later and checking the forum page. In no way did I mean to directly attack the owner of the baseball. I've never met the guy, I've never spoke with the guy, I never said someones name, all I received once were two very small images (which was kind) and a very negative comment about sharing information (which I did not include in my post because of its negativity). There is more than one of these out there, meaning multiple owners, hence the post looking for one of the baseballs.

I do not ask for anything for free, I do not demand that collectors contribute to my book. Every dime I make now days goes into this book, which I do not get paid to write as of yet, all of the info I supply to fellow collectors, I do not charge for. I simply hope that other people share their knowledge of the game and it's artifacts so the public will have a reference and be able to learn! The National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum wants a copy of this book for internal reference in their library, so they can identify their artifacts and correctly educate the public for years to come, so your grandchildren will know how it all started, and you're going to worry about one bozo who makes crap reproductions and sells them for $50 bucks over the entire collectors world? That's where I felt I should use the word selfish. This ball has already been published in a book, so it could already have been replicated, It's basically the first Spalding ball used in the NL, I cannot leave it out.

Jake, I respect your opinion so I'm not even going to comment directly to your posts. Leon, Richard, Lance, Christopher, I appreciate your support here on the forum, and thank you for the kind comments and support of my book.

Below is an already published picture of one of the balls, pretty sure the "counterfeiter" could use that image as reference.