T206 Factories

[SetBuilder]

I've been wondering what the locations were of the factories that produced the T206 cards. So I did some research...

According to Scot Reader: They are: Factory 6 in Ohio, Factory 17 in Virginia, Factory 25 in Virginia, Factory 30 in New York, Factory 33 in North Carolina, Factory 42 in North Carolina and Factory 649 in New York.

Does anyone know the exact locations?

Also, what was the distribution like for these cigarette packs? Did they ship only east of the Mississippi? Did more cigarettes get sold in a certain state/city over other regions?

[frankbmd]

I love this kind of question and after one hour of googling I propose the following locations as likely (but not verified) locations.

Factory 6 - Middleton, Ohio Polar Bear Tobacco

Factory 17 (?) & 25 - Richmond, Virginia

Factory 30 & 649 (?) - New York City on W 22nd St (Kinney Bros. - Sweet Caporal Brand name of Kinney)

Factory 42 - Durham, NC

Factory 171 - San Francisco, CA Obaks

This information may be well known by other members. Please modify or supplement this list, if you know. I'd like to know the real answers and the reference to pin this down for sure.

[tedzan]

I've been wondering what the locations were of the factories that produced the T206 cards. So I did some research...

According to Scot Reader: They are: Factory 6 in Ohio, Factory 17 in Virginia, Factory 25 in Virginia, Factory 30 in New York, Factory 33 in North Carolina, Factory 42 in North Carolina and Factory 649 in New York.

Does anyone know the exact locations?

Also, what was the distribution like for these cigarette packs? Did they ship only east of the Mississippi? Did more cigarettes get sold in a certain state/city over other regions?


Manny

First, I have to correct you......The factories DID NOT produce the T206 cards. These cards were designed and printed at the American Lithographic Co. in NYC.
Then shipped to the various Tobacco factories to be inserted in their respective Cigarette brand packs.

2nd....here is the answer to your question......

Factory 6 in Middleton, Ohio

Factory 25 in Richmond, Virginia

Factory 30 in New York City

Factory 33 in Wilson, North Carolina

Factory 42 in Durham, North Carolina

Factory 649 in Rochester, New York


TED Z

[t206blogcom]

I'm no expert, but a year ago when I was visiting my home town of Williamsburg (less than an hour south east of Richmond), a vintage card shop owner was telling me the factory in Richmond was torn down years and years ago. I do know there are a bunch of apartments/condos in Richmond in old tobacco warehouses and factories, but I don't think they're the ones related to T206.

More info can be found about ALC on this old Net54 post (http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1218471746/last-1219244303/Information+wanted+on+the+American+Lithographic+Co mpany). It sounds like the company was in NYC and their building still stands - at least as of 2008.

There are many on Net54 with far more knowledge about this subject than me, so hopefully they'll chime in for you. Also, Net54 member Jason Wells lives in Richmond, so he might be able to shed light on my previous statement about the apartments.

[White Borders]

Polar Bear - Factory No. 6, 1st District, Middletown, Ohio

Paul Sorg and John Auer began producing cut plug tobacco in Middletown, Ohio, in the late 1870’s. In 1898, Continental Tobacco Company (one of the main holding companies under the American Tobacco Company umbrella) purchased the Middletown plant. In early 1899, Luhrman & Wilburn Tobacco Company of Cincinnati (one of the largest scrap tobacco manufacturers) was purchased by Continental. Continental then moved the Luhrman & Wilburn operations to the Middletown factory. Upon the break-up of ATC in 1912, the plant ownership changed to the P. Lorillard Company, which operated it until 1951. The plant was demolished in 1958.

[Matthew H]

Frank, Schmidt Litho Co. printed the Obaks for ATC. Their building was/is in sf and is now the Clocktower Lofts. My Dad used to live in that building. I remember they had a display of different lithographs for cans and crates that were found in the building. I'm sure that's where they printed the Obaks. They were there starting 1907.

[tedzan]

Frank, Schmidt Litho Co. printed the Obaks for ATC. Their building was/is in sf and is now the Clocktower Lofts. My Dad used to live in that building. I remember they had a display of different lithographs for cans and crates that were found in the building. I'm sure that's where they printed the Obaks. They were there starting 1907.

Schmidt Lithographic Co. indeed printed the Obaks. Schmidt Litho. was the west coast's equivalent to American Litho. If you are visiting San Fran,
take the time to visit the Clocktower Bldg.....for in it there is a museum featuring a lot of their beautifully lithographed products.

Unfortunately, the American Lithographic Bldg. on Park Avenue South & 19th Street in NYC doesn't feature such a museum. It has been converted
to professional offices.


http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd339/tz1234zaz/americanlithographicbldg.jpg


TED Z

[SetBuilder]

Manny

First, I have to correct you......The factories DID NOT produce the T206 cards. These cards were designed and printed at the American Lithographic Co. in NYC.
Then shipped to the various Tobacco factories to be inserted in their respective Cigarette brand packs.

2nd....here is the answer to your question......

Factory 6 in Middleton, Ohio

Factory 25 in Richmond, Virginia

Factory 30 in New York City

Factory 33 in Wilson, North Carolina

Factory 42 in Durham, North Carolina

Factory 649 in Rochester, New York


TED Z

Ted,

I found an excerpt from the book "The Card: Collectors, Con Men, and the True Story of History's Most Desired Baseball Card" by Michael O'Keeffe (don't know who that is): "The Cards were printed at seven factories in New York, Ohio, Virginia, and North Carolina...The Gretzky 206 Wagner was imprinted with "Factory 25, 24 Dist. VA.," indicating that the Wagner cards were made at Factory 25 in Virginia. According to T206 historian Scot A. Reader, the vast majority of the Piedmont cards and cigarettes were made at Factory 25." (p. 33)

This information also carries over to the Wikipedia entry for the Wagner card.

[FrankWakefield]

New York, at American Litho. But me saying it won't make it any more believable than when Ted said it.

The cigarettes were made at the cigarette factories. The packaging wasn't made there, just the cigarettes. The American Lithographic Company printed those little cards, and then sent them to the places where the tobacco packages were being assembled, ie the cigarette places and the Ohio place for Polar Bear.

There are MANY inaccuracies in that The Card book. Many. I bought it and read it, found that to be frustrating, I'd cringe or speak out when I came across something that was wrong. The author wanted to write and sell a book, he didn't know very much about old cards, nor about one particular old card.

[SetBuilder]

Yeah, I figured the book lacked credibility.

Books with those kind of titles usually go for sensationalism over objectivity.

[tedzan]

Ted,

I found an excerpt from the book "The Card: Collectors, Con Men, and the True Story of History's Most Desired Baseball Card" by Michael O'Keeffe (don't know who that is): "The Cards were printed at seven factories in New York, Ohio, Virginia, and North Carolina...The Gretzky 206 Wagner was imprinted with "Factory 25, 24 Dist. VA.,"

This information also carries over to the Wikipedia entry for the Wagner card.

I have read the book "The Card"; and, there are some flaws in it.....and, this is one of the most glaring flaws by the author. And, Wikipedia repeated this myth.

The various Factory's were in business to produce Tobacco products and their machinery was designed for this task. The various Factory's did not employ lithographers
and did not have printing presses. The design and the printing of most T-cards from 1886 - 1919 were the result of specialized craftsmen who were very professional in
the art of lithography. In the 19th Century, George Harris & Sons (Philadelphia) was one of the big producer's of T-cards (N162, etc). At the start of the 20th Century
American Litho. on the East coast and Schmidt Litho. on the West coast were the big Lithographic Company's that produced T-cards.


TED Z

[campyfan39]

33 was definately in Wilson, NC. in the heart of tocacco country. Great little town that has a summer league team called the "Tobs".
It also host the NC Baseball Museum which sports a modest but nice memorabilia collection of all of the players who played in Wilson including Williams. It has large cabinets that feature the NC natives who are in the HOF Buck Leonard, Wilhelm, Gaylord Perry, Ferrell, Hunter, Slaughter and Appling.

[sreader3]

My original Inside T206 manuscript mistakenly stated that the cards were "printed at" the factories. I corrected this error in the second edition to say "distributed from" the factories. O'Keeffe quoted liberally from my original manuscript and unfortunately the error found its way into his book. This has been discussed at length on this forum before.

[White Borders]

Factory 42 - Durham, NC

[Abravefan11]

Great PC's Craig.

[g_vezina_c55]

if i understand corectly , all the T206 cards where printed at american litho and the same place with the same press printer ??? And after that where shipped to the factory write on the bottom of the card ???

[FrankWakefield]

Yes, that's it.

The cards were distributed in packages; packages that went from the factories into the commerce stream, eventually to a point where they were sold to consumers.

The factories didn't "make" the tobacco. The factory didn't "make" or print the cards. The factories did manufacture (or maybe process for Polar Bear) a tobacco product, package it (sometimes with various collector cards), then they would distribute (sell) the product.

American Lithograph Company printed those cards.

Part of what we collectors miss is the context of what that printing was. Before printing, visual media was hand produced. Gutenburg Bible time, ie the beginnings of movable type, was also when an artistic rendering could be cut into a block of wood. These might be small crude maps, portraits of Saints, Kings, Popes, Emperors... Before this time, the only way a visual image could be captured was by an artist rendering a painting or drawing. The woodcut blocks had a short printing life. Copper plates were used at a later point in time. They would last longer. But again, the product was expensive and beyond the means of most people. Most of us have heard of Currier and Ives prints. The significance is lost upon most folks. These were lithography works, great images, color and detail... and they were in the price range of most folks. For the first time ever, everyday folk could afford a visual rendering (art). Today, everything we see has visual art on it. Everywhere... but that is a fairly new phenomenon. 20 years ago I ordered some billboards, and chose 1 color, blue, to save on printing costs. More colors were more money... Today, the manufacturing process for the billboard sheets is such that full color is the same price as one color... Not true yet for newspapers, though. But I digress. These little trade cards that we look at as antiquated were, in their day, a marvel to behold. They represented a confluence of technology and art that resulted in great visual art in an affordable form.

[SetBuilder]

Could this be what the lithography machines looked like?

http://www.metropostcard.com/picshistory/h128-offsetlitho.jpg.jpg

[t206blogcom]

For those who are interested, here are some modern day images of the ALC building in NYC (taken from Google Maps):

http://www.t206blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/ALC-1.jpg

http://www.t206blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/ALC-2.jpg

http://www.t206blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/ALC-3.jpg

[steve B]

Yes, although I think those are somewhat newer.

Steve B

Could this be what the lithography machines looked like?

http://www.metropostcard.com/picshistory/h128-offsetlitho.jpg.jpg

[mrvster]

Great input everyone.....:D

This is facinating to me.....makes me almost want to go to the lithographic building......that's where more than likely my "freaks" evolved.....just awesome.....thanks for everyones research....i'm lazy:o

peace

v

[atx840]

Similar to these Steve?

http://i.imgur.com/7PBxi.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/pnjM6.jpg

[SetBuilder]

Imagine how many employees it took to operate those machines, print, and cut millions of T206 cards!

I wonder how many cards the employees took home.

They were very popular with kids and I'm sure many of them had eager relatives asking for cards.

When the order from upper management came to destroy all the Wagner cards, I'm sure several pocketed some.

[steve B]

Those presses are closer, and very early for printing from plates.

The ones printing from stones were more like this one from
http://www.fotolibra.com/gallery/499953/printing-fast-single-cylinder-jobbing-m/

http://gb.fotolibra.com/images/previews/499953-printing-fast-single-cylinder-jobbing-m.jpeg

Making them wouldn't have taken long. Figuring an unlikely but for math convenient 10x10 sheet,
100cards x 1000 sheets an hour =100,000 cards/hour.
x10 hours of production /day = 1,000,000 cards/day.

Figure 10 colors counting the back, so they could easily turn out 100,000 a day, probably more if the sheet was bigger as was likely, or if they used more than one press.

Add in a couple days for cutting, and a million cards probably took around two weeks.

Steve B

[vintagechris]

I found this postcard online of several tobacco warehouses and factories in Wilson NC. Maybe some of these distributed the cards.
http://www.cardcow.com/images/set333/card00270_fr.jpg

[vintagechris]

Here is another cool site. I believe some of these photos may show factory 42

http://endangereddurham.blogspot.com/2006/11/duke-factory.html

[sycks22]

Factory 42 - Durham, NC

The Chimney is still there in the Durham Tabacco road area. It's about 50 yards away from the Durham Bulls stadium. One of those factories were bought by Burt's Bees company. It's a really nice looking area down by the park.