Sales tax on Heritage invoice?

[scooter729]

I just got my invoice for my Heritage winnings and it has sales tax on it, which I have never seen before. I'm in Massachusetts so I didn't think it would be a factor.

Anyone else have the same? I'll reach out to Heritage, but was curious if this was a mistake on all invoices.

[mcap100176]

Yes you owe it....see number 3.


http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/sales/faq_use.html

[rainier2004]

I guess it depends on which office the lot is selling from...

[scooter729]

That doesn't seem in line with the policy on their site; it looks like for Massachusetts for "All Other Collectibles" (which is their sports auctions), it says, "Applicable state sales tax on Signature Auctions ONLY if held in that state."

Since this auction took place in Texas, I would think there should be no sales tax for something shipped to Massachusetts.

I'll send something along to Heritage now to see....

[kkkkandp]

I think the application of sales tax is determined by where the goods are delivered and whether the seller has a license to collect sales tax in that state. If the seller does not, I believe the recipient is liable for use tax if the item purchased is taxable in that state.

[FrankWakefield]

add "of residence" to the end of Kevin's post immediately above, for clarity; then +1 to what he said.

[steve B]

Mcaps link spells it out pretty clearly. Texas seems to tax mail order and internet transactions as though they were local.

The laws have been changing, 40 states have setup to require sales tax on all sales even if the seller has no physical presence there.

Amazon has been fighting it, likely at great expense.

Personally I'd ask them to fix their policy page and pay the tax.

Unless you want to get into fighting Texas over the tax......And if you've got that sort of money ther are better things to do with it.

Steve B

[jimross]

This sales tax thing got to be something new and everyone should be watched out for. People should add that "sales tax" factor on top of those already super high "buyer's penalty" before they place their bids.

I won something from HA last yr and they didn't charged me sales tax.

[Exhibitman]

HA has long had a Beverly Hills office so I've been used to factoring in the sales tax on their auctions. It did deter me from making a bid on an item this time as it would have boosted the cost of an item by $245 for me above the bid + vig.

[sycks22]

I just got that too with the sales tax and live in NC, nowhere near Texas or NY.

[jimross]

By the way, (kind of off topic) watch out for HA shipping fee charge back. They might send u another invoice later on for additional shipping fee since whatever amount they are charging u now might be less than the actual shipping fee.

[scooter729]

I'm not looking for a legal battle with Texas or anything like that; I just want to know what my final price is that I'll pay when I make a bid.

I know that if I make a $1,000 bid, I would have to pay $1,195 (their 19.5% juice) + some postage / insurance. So I make my decision on whether I want to make a bid which amounts to $1,225-ish.

But little did I know (nor is it ANYWHERE in their terms) that I would be paying an additional 8.25% sales tax. Had I known that, I could have factored that extra $100 expense into my bidding decision.

Next time, I will know and can bid accordingly. But when it explicitly states in their terms that Massachusetts does NOT pay sales tax unless the Heritage auction is held in Massachusetts, then I don't want to pay the extra 8.25%.

Link to Heritage sales tax terms, with state-by-state info:
http://sports.ha.com/c/ref/sales-tax.zx

[Runscott]

The complaint we have is that it was something new, and I doubt any of us factored this additional cost into our bids.

My invoice is for 30.42% above the hammer price - that is a significant surprise.

[atx840]

Canadians have to pay an additional 5% on declared value (some provinces up to 15%)

A $7,500 win ends up costing $10,210.53 plus ship/ins. THAT IS 36% in fees.

The BL460 final winning price $7500 * 1.195% = $8,962.50 * 1.085% = $9,724.31 * 1.05% = $10,210.53

[shaunsteig]

just went back and reviewed my prior Heritage invoices. I've never been asked to pay sales tax on a Heritage lot, although I've only won things in their internet/phone auctions, not their Signature auctions. I lived in MA until last year, and now since then in RI. I agree though, that tacking on that % would make a sizable difference to the cost, and thus one's limit bids, on a lot, and that if HA changed their policy (even if due to a state law which is out of their hands) that they should be more clearer and forthright about letting prior customers know about the change.
--S

[oldjudge]

Charging this tax is contrary to their Terms and Conditions. I am being charged the tax in Connecticut. Perhaps this is an error--I would not pay until chatting with customer service tomorrow. Interesting, my invoice was up on their web site and has now been taken down. Perhaps they are being corrected.

[Leon]

Tax laws are tax laws. I wasn't able to take a Heritage Live winning a few years ago, in person when I won it, because of tax laws. I am quite sure that whatever the law is, is exactly what is going to happen to each invoice. It's not a debate and there won't be a gray area on this. I would just hang tight and speak with them if there is a question.

[batsballsbases]

I paid it this time but my memory will be very long for the next time!:eek:

Also curious since this has happened will REA or any of the other auction houses be charging sales tax? Leon since you are also in TX and run auctions do
you also fall under the same guidelines?

[oldjudge]

If Heritage does charge tax and other auctioneers do not, why would anyone ever consign to Heritage? The tax is effectively coming out of the consignor's realization.

[oldjudge]

Here is the clause from the terms and conditions:

Lots delivered to you, or your representative in the States of Texas, California, New York, or
other states where the Auction may be held, are subject to all applicable state and local taxes,
unless appropriate permits are on file with Auctioneer. (Note: Coins are only subject to sales tax
in California on invoices under $1500 and in Texas on invoices under $1000. Check the Web site
at: h ttp://coins.ha.com/c/ref/sales-tax.zx f or more details.) B idder agrees to pay Auctioneer
the actual amount of tax due in the event that sales tax is not properly collected due to: 1) an
expired, inaccurate, inappropriate tax certificate or declaration, 2) an incorrect interpretation
of the applicable statute, 3) or any other reason. The appropriate form or certificate must be on
file at and verified by Auctioneer five days prior to Auction or tax must be paid; only if such form
or certificate is received by Auctioneer within 4 days after the Auction can a refund of tax paid be
made. Lots from different Auctions may not be aggregated for sales tax purposes.


Doesn't sound like taxes are due if you live outside a state where Heritage has a physical presence.

[Runscott]

Here is the clause from the terms and conditions:

Lots delivered to you, or your representative in the States of Texas, California, New York, or
other states where the Auction may be held, are subject to all applicable state and local taxes,
unless appropriate permits are on file with Auctioneer. (Note: Coins are only subject to sales tax
in California on invoices under $1500 and in Texas on invoices under $1000. Check the Web site
at: h ttp://coins.ha.com/c/ref/sales-tax.zx f or more details.) B idder agrees to pay Auctioneer
the actual amount of tax due in the event that sales tax is not properly collected due to: 1) an
expired, inaccurate, inappropriate tax certificate or declaration, 2) an incorrect interpretation
of the applicable statute, 3) or any other reason. The appropriate form or certificate must be on
file at and verified by Auctioneer five days prior to Auction or tax must be paid; only if such form
or certificate is received by Auctioneer within 4 days after the Auction can a refund of tax paid be
made. Lots from different Auctions may not be aggregated for sales tax purposes.


Doesn't sound like taxes are due if you live outside a state where Heritage has a physical presence.

That's how I understand it. Basically, it's not up to the state of Texas to collect taxes in other states - that's up to the 'other' states. Heritage has no physical presence in the state of Connecticut, so they can't charge you tax. If they do, you can request a refund from the state of Texas. If you were to visit Texas and buy things that had sales taxes, you could do the same thing - request a refund for all sales tax at the end of the year, then pay the 'use' tax on these items that Connecticut would charge (if any).

[bcbgcbrcb]

I live in NJ and had sales tax applied to my invoice for the first time ever and e-mailed them immediatley upon receipt asking if that was an error. No response yet although it is Sunday. Over $100 difference in cost for me as well.........

[Runscott]

Cool:

As a winner in our 2012 May 3-5 Vintage Sports Collectibles Signature Auction, we wanted to let you know that due to technical difficulties on our end, the invoices were generated incorrectly. Please disregard the invoice you received. We are working on resolving this issue and should have a new invoice ready soon.

Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this has caused.

Sincerely,

Heritage Client Services

[batsballsbases]

Just recieved a new message from Heritage saying due to techinical difficulties please dis regard your invoice and a new one will be sent. Maybe it has to do with the sales tax that I already paid!!!

[batsballsbases]

I was able to talk to Chris Ivy from heritage and he told me that only Tx. Calif. and New York will be taxed. The program sent out all the invoices with sales tax and new invoices will be sent out and that it will be taken off. If you already paid a refund will be issued! Well that is intresting!

[GoldenAge50s]

I was ready to post the same question! Got my invoice this AM w/ over $200 sales tax & I live in RI.

If you buy from out-of state RI requires one to file a form to pay the tax, hence TX should not tax me or I would be double-dipped!

Section 4--last line from Texas Tax Law:

If you paid another state's sales or use tax on the merchandise, you can take a credit for the amount of sales tax paid to the other state.

Add-On:

I just got my "disregard" notice also.

[Leon]

It was a mistake. They happen. No company in America wants to collect or not collect taxes incorrectly. Anyone is business knows that. I have a very good relationship with the Texas Comptroller's office. They are really pretty good in Texas and will work with you on honest mistakes. They won't forgive taxes but they will work with you if an honest mistake is made. At least that is my experience (AND I have a few of them).

[leaflover]

I live in California. Last year I won items auctioned in Texas and shipped from Texas but had to pay California sales tax. When I questioned the charge I was told, "We have a branch office in Beverly Hills"

No problem. Now I don't open their website, consign items to them, or read any of their publications. In short, I do not do any business with them.

Mike Ryan

[GoldenAge50s]

Just got my revised invoice--sales tax has been removed and a complimentary copy of the Collectors Handbook has been included.

[frankbmd]

When I won an REA Auction for two cards a few years ago in the middle of the night, I checked my invoice on line at 4AM and it had a shipping charge of $1000.00 included. Several hours later I received an Email telling me that the shipping charge was a default number and that the actual shipping charge would be added later.

Similar type of problem creating panic, anger and a sleepness night.
Wouldn't it have been more prudent to set the default shipping charge at zero with a pending determination note?

Glad to hear this was all a computer glitch. I know exactly how you all felt.

[baseballart]

Canadians have to pay an additional 5% on declared value (some provinces up to 15%)

A $7,500 win ends up costing $10,210.53 plus ship/ins. THAT IS 36% in fees.

The BL460 final winning price $7500 * 1.195% = $8,962.50 * 1.085% = $9,724.31 * 1.05% = $10,210.53

The only province in which a Canadian pays 5% on cards is Alberta. As Chris notes, in other provinces, the feds either collect the HST (up to 15%), the QST in Quebec (which is the only province to charge its tax on the value including the federal tax) or the provincial sales tax in Manitoba and Saskatchewan (PEI with Anne of Green Gables is soon to harmonize with the HST) (BC is going back to the PST instead of the HST--but don't get me started on an OT thread about the benefits of a value added tax!)

Max
*in his real life, dealing with tax and custom issues since 1985

[Leon]

Similar type of problem creating panic, anger and a sleepness night.
Wouldn't it have been more prudent to set the default shipping charge at zero with a pending determination note?



From my perspective as an auctioneer, absolutely NOT.
Then when shipping charges get added everyone is pissed off. Much better to set a very high default if one needs to be set. Our s/w does the same thing and we set ours at $2000 immediately, then adjust them right after that to the correct amount.

[mcap100176]

Online sales tax is based upon the Amazon legislation. In exchange for a "sales tax holiday" for a few years, Amazon has been negotiating with states to build distribution centers for faster shipping. They have been negotiating with NJ, where I live, for a few months. Texas and California did theirs a few months ago. Most legislation is aimed at Amazon as there are size parameters of capital investments, job creation, employee benefits, etc. If anyone wants to have a blast reading legislation, I can link to the NJ draft bills, there are a few competing bills.

Expect more of this in future as Amazon looks to increase their presence for distribution and warehouse sites. More annoying for me, living in NJ, I face the 18.5% BP on REA plus 7% sales tax. It definitely impacts my bidding.

[Rich Klein]

As a person who believes in local stores, I'm actually in favor of sales tax or whatever tax on internet purchases. These taxes just continue to make life much harder for brick and mortaer stores who already have to fight battles because of rent, electricity, employee costs, etc while some of these costs are the same for internet busineeses, the 8 percent is not the same.


Thus, and not just in cards, in fairness to local stores there does need to be a level playing field. I could go on more of a rant, but let's just say local sales tax is unfair to small businesses as compared to internet only ones.

Rich

[buymycards]

Wisconsin is really cracking down on the Use tax. If you use a tax preparer for your income tax they are now quizzing you with several questions about items that were purchased out of state. This year I ended up filing an amended return for the previous year in order to report some out of state purchases.

So now when I am bidding on ebay, B&L, or any other auction site, I factor in the 5.5% use tax, unless I am purchasing something to flip to a dealer. I then need to keep track of these purchases and report them during tax time. My experience with the Wisconsin Department of Revenue is that they are very aggressive and thorough, so I need to be prepared and proactive in order to avoid any problems.

Rick

[GoldenAge50s]

Am I the only one who has not heard a word from Heritage re: shipping of my winnings? I paid promptly w/ bank ck & have recvd no shipping info at all. Anyone else?

[Texxxx]

Everyone needs to get ready for sales tax on anything purchased online. The states are pressuring the federal gov. to make sales tax collected from point of sale instead of expecting the buyer to pay it. Most people are defrauding there state of the taxes by not paying them when they buy something and the states are loosing millions of tax dollars. The Feds have already shut down buying tobacco products over the internet because of the taxes not paid.

[glchen]

Am I the only one who has not heard a word from Heritage re: shipping of my winnings? I paid promptly w/ bank ck & have recvd no shipping info at all. Anyone else?

I'm in the same boat. I also paid promptly via bank cashier's check, and have yet to receive any shipping info either. Saying that, Heritage is one of the slowest shippers, so I expected it. They do not ship for 2 weeks after payment is received unless you paid by wire transfer. It doesn't matter that you paid by cashier's check, e-check from their website, have a history of winnings with them, etc.

[scooter729]

I received an email last Thursday 5/17 that my winnings had shipped, and I received them yesterday 5/22 (FedEx Ground).

Considering I paid via credit card on 5/7, I'm not sure why it needs to take them 10 days to ship something paid in full via credit card. But that seems to be the norm for Heritage, so I expected it when I bid.

[batsballsbases]

Well it took me 5 phone calls to finally get an answer on why they didnt ship my item. Paid by paypal and had paid the sales tax to them . They refunded my sales tax. Answer to why they didnt ship faster, we had to wait for your paypal refund from us to clear! Now does that make any sense! I would suggest a phone call to them it does seem to get some response! Finally did get a tracking # as it was sent out yesterday!

[GaryPassamonte]

I paid the monday after the auction, 5/7, my check cleared on 5/11, and still my item has not been shipped. Heritage is, without question, the slowest shipper I have ever done business with. And I've been collecting a long time.

[GoldenAge50s]

Well, it's somewhat comforting to know I'm not the Lone Ranger here---Thank You for all the replies!

In the case of Heritage, I guess it has to do w/ the size of the Company & the sheer number of auctions they seem to be running almost constantly, but tomorrow will be 3 weeks from end of the big auction & no shipping info in sight. Seems as if they could improve on that ALOT!

[GoldenAge50s]

UPDATE:

After an EM to Heritage yesterday asking for info, I just got notice my package shipped today via Fed X overnite & should be here by 3 PM on Thurs.

[rainier2004]

Last purchase from Heritage took 18 days to receive shipment after payment cleared. Poor customer service as well. The size of their company shouldnt matter, they have enough accountants to process their money. THey also seem to show little loyalty to repeat customers. Im a first time winner in REA and received my shipment in half the time versus Heritage paying by check...theres your standard.
Steve Suckow

[Exhibitman]

So last Friday I am wondering where the heck my stuff is--I paid the invoice online via cc the day after the auction ended. I go to check on their site and find that they assessed me an extra $2.27 in shipping. You'd think they'd get their overpriced shipping right the first time and if not at least alert me to it, but no email, no communication, nothing. Just no cards and a minuscule balance due. What FUBARed customer service. It's just so stupid not to LMK about a balance due of so little. Of course, it is ridiculous with their alleged state of the art system to have invoices ready and payable if they aren't really ready. Yet again the lack of professionalism in the sports memorabilia 'business' appalls me.

And of course here we are a week later and still no items in hand.

Dealing with them is like dealing with Time Warner Cable. I guess if you can get the materials and knowing what card-whores collectors can be, you don't have to sweat over providing good service.

And in case it is controversial: I'm @d@m w@r$h@w and I approve this message.

[wonkaticket]

I feel for the guys who don’t have goods yet that sucks.

I will say that for me Heritage has been very good and I find that Pete and Derek have been pretty responsive to my requests on the few I’ve had.

I won a pretty huge lot shipping wise and I will say it was shipped and packed out very fast and packed well. I do know Derek Grady was a big help with this so not sure what effect that had etc.

So far my experience has been very positive with Heritage but feel for those who have not had the same experience.

Cheers,

John

[GoldenAge50s]

Package recvd @ 1:30PM today, very well packed & fully protected. All items intact and as described/purchased.

[Runscott]

Heritage has always treated me right. I pay, there might be a bump or two, I receive. I'm happy.

Life isn't perfect. There are great things, there are not so great things, and there are lukewarm boring things. Whether or not you get a baseball card as quickly as you would like is not really one of the huge events in life. If you really need some perspective, PM me and I'll give it to you.

[bsuttonosu]

I admit to not being a big auction guy. I bid/win stuff every now and then but not often. So I am not as familiar with historical service from these companies.

But I don't understand why, if you know the service is always bad, does everyone keep buying from them? If I went to a restaurant and got bad food or bad service I wouldn't eat there again. But it seems like every auction there's all these posts about such and such auction did it again to me.

Just my observation.
Ben.

[Jay Wolt]

But I don't understand why, if you know the service is always bad, does everyone keep buying from them?
Ben.

Good stuff trumps all, be it bad service or dealing w/ unsavory characters

[GaryPassamonte]

My winnings were sent Fed Ex yesterday and are scheduled for delivery today.