Reporting live from the Hunts Ted Williams auction

[scooter729]

STRONG prices thus far through the first 100-ish items. Most signed pieces have been beating estimates (Bush / Ted / Joe D. pics bringing over $1K each).

The most impressive items thus far have included Williams' WWII and Korea flight logs ($15K - $20K) and a game bat (almost $50k).

The signed checks are bringing more than I expected, considering the quantity of them available (over a thousand). They are bringing an average of $200 per check at least.

Some big items coming up later - this will be fun to see how it goes!

[Splinte1941]

I landed lot #37. That signature is fantastic. I'm hoping the photo came from his personal collection but regardless I'm happy to have it.

[Giants00]

is it crowded there?

[scooter729]

I landed lot #37. That signature is fantastic. I'm hoping the photo came from his personal collection but regardless I'm happy to have it.

That's a fantastic picture! They did announce at the start of bidding on #37 that JSA wouldn't issue a COA for the picture, because they had never seen that exact style of signature. Hunt's felt certain it was 100% legit, but JSA wouldn't cert it because of the unique style.

And they did say the picture originated from Ted Williams' belongings as they were sorting through things, so you should be happy! The image might be unique as well, I believe!

Crowd is maybe 150 people or so right now, plus some various media outlets in town. People seem to be coming and going a bit, since this is going to be an all-day affair.....

[Splinte1941]

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[scooter729]

Good luck in dealing with them on this - I would certainly have thought that information would be (and should be) shared with any bidders on the lot.

I had been interested in the picture as well but was a bit surprised to hear their announcement.

[Splinte1941]

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[travrosty]

I was bidding via phone and I wasn't privy to that information about the signature nor did the woman taking my bid tell me anything. Looks like a problem in the making. There was nothing about JSA refusing to cert the thing in the catalogue.



why is it a problem in the making? the lot never said jsa cert. do you need a jsa cert on everything? it is just one guys opinion.

You got exactly what you bid on, a ted williams signed photo with no cert, just as the description states. why let one guy run the autograph collecting world? You should have done your own research BEFORE you bid and you should have felt comfortable with the signed photo BEFORE you bid. There is no disclaimer on these auctions that everything is sold with the expectation that it will pass psa or jsa.

do you need a list of all the people who will or won't give it a cert on every single item in the whole catalogue? How many names do they need to list?

on this item, psa will cert it, but jsa wont, on this one, jsa will but psa wont, on this one, psa and jsa wont, but global will.

Why not get the opinions of the authenticators of your choice on any one particular item before you bid? Just saying.

[Splinte1941]

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[travrosty]

They're not getting paid until PSA has a look at it. I even asked the girl over the phone what they were saying and she said they were saying how rare it was. More BS from this business. Someone is supposed to call me back, but they'll probably end up relisting this live if I don't get a good explanation.



where in the description does it say jsa cert?

i dont get it. why does psa's approval all of the sudden mean its good again and that's the only way they are going to get paid? Where does it say you are only obligated to pay if just two people in the world give it the thumbs up? You bid on it as is and you should pay for it. I have sold stuff that jsa and psa did not like, but it was real so who cares unless you are only interested in the cert.

something tells me you just want the cert, you are cert shopping.

If an auction lists no cert, does that mean if psa and jsa fail it in the future, you are entitled to your money back? that's ridiculous. It's their opinion and if you didnt get their opinion beforehand, its not the auction houses problem. nobody should be subject to the whims of psa or jsa.

[travrosty]

Get a life. No one asked for your opinion. Your response is rude and not welcomed.

I'm on the phone waiting to bid asking the woman for the information and you would have thought theyd have provided the info.



they DID provide the info. they listed it on their auction with no cert. that's what you bid on. they are under no obligation to list who may or may not cert this item in the future. that's for you to figure out BEFOREHAND.

[Splinte1941]

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[travrosty]

No. I want a legitimate item you *******.

Am I supposed to take Dave Hunts word for it? Whos word am I supposed to take? If I wanted to resell it someday a cert would nice, wouldn't it genius? Now go back to doing whatever you were doing before I didn't ask for your 2 cents.



so you are cert shopping, good. a cert would be nice for resell? Hey, HUNT sold it to you without one. worked for them, didnt it?

you mentioned resell, which means you are only interested in the cert, not if it is real. if psa gives you a cert, you won't be mad at the auction house anymore or jsa either. that's the point. whether or not it is real doesnt really matter to you as long as jsa or psa issue a cert for it.


so if psa certs it and jsa won't, what does that tell you about the legitimacy of the item? NOTHING, because it is a split opinion. so if the two world's experts disagree, you only care about the one that certed it, because it is now real, but if psa wouldnt cert it and jsa would, then it would also be real, as long as one of them certs it, you will believe THAT person, because for the moment, he is giving you what you want. If it was the other way around, then that same person's opinion would be junk in your opinion, and the OTHER one would be gold. See how crazy it is?

[HRBAKER]

If they had the info about JSA's refusal bf they went to print they should have put it in the description. If it is important enough to announce to the live bidders and they didn't have the info bf the catalogs went out then a note should have been made to share the same info with all phone bidders IMO.

Their announcement of such info IMO acknowledges that they consider it relevant to most bidders.

EDIT TO ADD: JSAs refusal to cert certainly doesn't mean that the item is no good.

[scooter729]

FWIW it's worth - the auction catalog states "Auction LOA from JSA". My guess is that it used to be on the website description and was removed when they got the add'l info from JSA.

They should have updated the website listing with this info, and informed anyone who had bid on it of this info.

And geez travrosty, seriously - do you have to yell at everyone who ever buys an autograph? You called me a moron the other day for admitting I'd bought some bad autographs years ago; it's people like you with your negative attitudes that make people stay away from the autograph forum. Now please stay over there and do NOT ruin another legitimate thread please!

[carrigansghost]

Thank you for keeping us updated, Scott.

Rawn

[Splinte1941]

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[yanks12025]

But travrosty does make a point dealing with passing one and failing another.

[Splinte1941]

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[carrigansghost]

Now is it any wonder why I consigned all of my auto's to auction. Maybe it's a ploy to pick up auto'ed items for cheap by bashing everything on the market or everything out there is bad? Either way, I'm glad there is a seperate forum now.

Rawn

[Splinte1941]

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[murphusa]

$120,000 for a world series program scorecard

[yanks12025]

$120,000 for a world series program scorecard

I'm sorry but that's stupid to pay that much for a piece of paper. Must be nice to drop 120k on paper.

[CW]

Thanks for the updates, Scott. I'll be interested to see how high the Babe Ruth signed ball goes. Congrats to all that won items.

[Runscott]

Nice thread title and potential - too bad Hunt is also auctioning autographs.

I've won one lot so far, and still high internet bidder on five more - very cool, interesting stuff.

[travrosty]

he has no idea if the autograph is good or not, and asked if he should take hunts word for it?

the listing did not list a cert at all, so of course you have to take hunt's word for it. just like lelands who does not use jsa or psa at all.

if he didnt want to take hunts word for it, then dont bid on a listing with no certs listed. just because psa or jsa give a no opinion (and that's what it is concerning jsa, a no opinion, not a fail), that shouldnt then make it the auction houses problem.

[HRBAKER]

IMO if the auction house chose to make the info re the attempted certification available to the live bidders then they owed the same consideration to the phone bidders.

[Splinte1941]

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[scooter729]

One important thing not to be overlooked here...

The auction catalog stated "Auction LOA from JSA." This is no longer on the website, which says that it likely had been there before, but when JSA came back unable to render a full opinion, they removed the auction LOA verbiage from the website listing.

Had they gone with full disclosure, they would have stated why they removed the "Auction LOA" description which had been there at one time.

[murphusa]

thanks for the updates, scott. I'll be interested to see how high the babe ruth signed ball goes. Congrats to all that won items.

$170,000.00

[Splinte1941]

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[RichardSimon]

he has no idea if the autograph is good or not, and asked if he should take hunts word for it?

the listing did not list a cert at all, so of course you have to take hunt's word for it. just like lelands who does not use jsa or psa at all.

if he didnt want to take hunts word for it, then dont bid on a listing with no certs listed. just because psa or jsa give a no opinion (and that's what it is concerning jsa, a no opinion, not a fail), that shouldnt then make it the auction houses problem.

Leland's has two people there who really know what they are doing regarding autographs, Josh and Mike Hefner.
Does Hunt? (Delehanty?)

[Splinte1941]

Leland's has two people there who really know what they are doing regarding autographs, Josh and Mike Hefner.
Does Hunt? (Delehanty?)

Richard, what is your opinion on my situation. Am I wrong here? I'd appreciate your input. Thanks.

[CW]

$170,000.00

Ah, cool -- thanks! Quite an amazing item. (http://www.huntauctions.com/live/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=36&lot_num=386&lot_qual=)

Some other cool pieces...

.400 club hitters ball sold for $55K. (http://www.huntauctions.com/live/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=36&lot_num=319&lot_qual=)

http://www.huntauctions.com/live/img36/319.jpg

Ted's Hall of Fame induction ring. (http://www.huntauctions.com/live/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=36&lot_num=425&lot_qual=)

http://www.huntauctions.com/live/img36/425.jpg

And more than double the auction estimate for Ted's 1957 "Babe Ruth Sultan of Swat Award" (http://www.huntauctions.com/live/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=36&lot_num=431&lot_qual=)

http://www.huntauctions.com/live/img36/431.jpg

[RichardSimon]

Richard, what is your opinion on my situation. Am I wrong here? I'd appreciate your input. Thanks.

As someone who does not put his faith in TPA's I am not the right person to ask here but it does seem you are not being unreasonable.

[Splinte1941]

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[travrosty]

just because lelands has auto experts and hunts doesnt in your opinion, so what? you knew that going in.

You entered into a contract to buy a signed photo without a cert, then when you find out you cant get one from a company that you want one from, you make it hunts problem?

they didnt list a cert, so there is no guarantee for a cert. that's the way it works. doesnt mean it is a fake autograph. jsa gave a no opinion, not a fail. why are you acting like its fake? you bid so you should pay.

its what cheeses me off, and reminds me of a high priced boxing autograph that the buyer liked a lot, and said it looked good, paid for the item, and then when jsa and psa either gave a no opinion or a fail, wanted his money back from the seller, and when the seller stuck to his guns, the seller got sued, but thankfully won the case. just because the buyer couldnt get his favorite guys to give it a cert, does not make it the sellers problem.

the buyer could have gotten all the opinions he wanted AHEAD OF TIME, and asked anybody he wanted ahead of time. he didn't. that's his problem. both this boxing autograph i am referring to and this williams has not been proven a fake, but since the buyer is more interested in the cert than the autograph, the problems start and thats why the hobby has been going downhill since the tpa's started the "unless we give it a cert, it is not good" type nonsense, and the collectors fell for it.

[Splinte1941]

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[Splinte1941]

And just as an aside, its incredible some of the prices being realized for stuff that has been going unsold on eBay for years. Most of the massed produced Green Diamond stuff is going for ridiculous and unreasonable prices.

$1k for a single signed Bobby Brown baseball? They can't give these away anywhere else.

[RichardSimon]

And just as an aside, its incredible some of the prices being realized for stuff that has been going unsold on eBay for years. Most of the massed produced Green Diamond stuff is going for ridiculous and unreasonable prices.

My guess would be that there are a lot of non-collectors in the crowd, with more money than sense.

[Splinte1941]

My guess would be that there are a lot of non-collectors in the crowd, with more money than sense.

You're not kidding.

[scooter729]

My guess would be that there are a lot of non-collectors in the crowd, with more money than sense.

They hyped this auction a lot in the local Boston media this week, so I think a lot of non-collectors showed up and it became a "gotta have something from the Williams auction" for the non-collectors. That's what drove up the prices on the low-end items, to $1K for a ball and $500 for an 11x14 photo.

[RichardSimon]

They hyped this auction a lot in the local Boston media this week, so I think a lot of non-collectors showed up and it became a "gotta have something from the Williams auction" for the non-collectors. That's what drove up the prices on the low-end items, to $1K for a ball and $500 for an 11x14 photo.

Wait until those non-collectors try to sell that stuff, somewhere down the road.

[barrysloate]

Brian Williams did a story about the auction on NBC's evening news. A whole lot of people watch that. So a lot of the money may be coming from outside the hobby.

[Splinte1941]

They hyped this auction a lot in the local Boston media this week, so I think a lot of non-collectors showed up and it became a "gotta have something from the Williams auction" for the non-collectors. That's what drove up the prices on the low-end items, to $1K for a ball and $500 for an 11x14 photo.

I live outside of Boston and this was really high profile. It's a shame a lot of collectors were edged out due to the hype.

[RichardSimon]

I live outside of Boston and this was really high profile. It's a shame a lot of collectors were edged out due to the hype.

I would guess collectors were blown out, not edged out.

[Splinte1941]

$1K for a modern day single signed ball is a joke and borderline criminal.

The ton of old Green Diamond garbage unloaded is in the same boat. I'm biased though as I'm already in a battle with Hunt over shenanigans so take everything I say with a grain of salt.

[Runscott]

edited: removed non-autograph content, as inappropriate for this forum. My bad. (sorry about the duplicate post)

[Splinte1941]

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[Scott Garner]

I would guess collectors were blown out, not edged out.

Never underestimate the "crazy-stupid" factor of the live auction. I've always been amazed at the crazy prices that garden variety items sell for in an auction....

[RichardSimon]

Yeah, but when crazy/stupid try to sell those $1000 baseballs where are they gonna go? :D

[Splinte1941]

Yeah, but when crazy/stupid try to sell those $1000 baseballs where are they gonna go? :D

Flea markets. If they're lucky.

[Runscott]

edited: removed non-autograph content, as inappropriate for this forum. My bad.

[thekingofclout]

edited: removed non-autograph content, as inappropriate for this forum. My bad.

like

[glchen]

I thought the 1915 Red Sox photo w/ Ruth went for a good price. I was the high Internet bidder but ended up losing by an increment.

[CW]

edited: removed non-autograph content, as inappropriate for this forum. My bad. (sorry about the duplicate post)


:confused: :confused: :confused:

This isn't the autograph forum -- this is the vintage memorabilia forum.
Non-autograph content welcome. :)

[Runscott]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

This isn't the autograph forum -- this is the vintage memorabilia forum.
Non-autograph content welcome. :)

Well, Jimmy got it. Hey Jimmy - I picked up a group of Ted and Dimaggio photos in the Hunt Ted Williams auction. I would post them here, but none of them are autographed :)

[drc]

I'd be worried, they don't come with JSA LOAs.

[Splinte1941]

To put this issue to bed, I have spoken directly to David Hunt, whom I respect and I have dealt with for years. He wouldn't know me if I walked into him, but that's irrelevant.

All I will say is that anyone who does business with this guy should know they are dealing with one of the most honest guys in the industry. Period. I went off the deep end on Saturday and overreacted. Dave and I have not threatened each other, nor do we have any standing disagreement over any aspect of the lot in question or this transaction. And if anyone thinks I've been pressured or persuaded to post this, please think again.

Shit happens, fellas.

EDIT: This doesn't change any statement I made regarding the realized prices on the modern, Green Diamond stuff. Total insanity on the part of those bidders.

[scooter729]

Jake, thanks for the update - does that mean you will be keeping the picture?

[Splinte1941]

Jake, thanks for the update - does that mean you will be keeping the picture?

Yes. I didn't get an answer as to why Spence decided to pull their COA and replace it with a no-opinion and while that bothers me, ultimately the photo was too rare IMO to let pass. Regardless of the signature, I'm willing to gamble that this photo could be one of a kind and that was my motivation. The fact that Dave was willing to guarantee it came from Williams possessions provides enough smoke for me that there's fire as well.

Either the autograph is legitimate or it's not. The TPA is hired to offer an opinion. It was given and then taken back. This situation is as strange as you'll find.

[CW]

Well, Jimmy got it. Hey Jimmy - I picked up a group of Ted and Dimaggio photos in the Hunt Ted Williams auction. I would post them here, but none of them are autographed :)

Ah. My sarcasm meter must've been on the fritz. ;)

[Runscott]

Sorry :)

The autograph-drama was getting old...again.

But back to what was apparently the only interesting part of this thread: the 'W' is horrible - this is NOT rocket science, and it's a shame that it appears to be so for so many autograph collectors.

Forget about LOA's and COA's until you've first used your God-given eyeballs.

[drc]

That's all well and good for you theists, but what about the rest of us?

[Splinte1941]

Sorry :)

The autograph-drama was getting old...again.

But back to what was apparently the only interesting part of this thread: the 'W' is horrible - this is NOT rocket science, and it's a shame that it appears to be so for so many autograph collectors.

Forget about LOA's and COA's until you've first used your God-given eyeballs.

So you're saying you don't like it?

[Runscott]

No, I don't like the 'W'. There might be other things wrong with it as well, but that one letter was pretty obvious.

If anyone can show other examples of his signature with a 'W' like that, please do. Then the next step would be to question whether or not those are authentic. Perhaps they were all (if there are more than one) done during Ted's 'creative signature' phase, or maybe they were done by a secretary or someone else signing for Ted.

I am extremely cautious when purchasing something like an autograph - I look at LOTS of examples first, and if there is anything whatsoever about the item that says 'run', I leave it alone and wait for the right one.

[Splinte1941]

No, I don't like the 'W'. There might be other things wrong with it as well, but that one letter was pretty obvious.

If anyone can show other examples of his signature with a 'W' like that, please do. Then the next step would be to question whether or not those are authentic. Perhaps they were all (if there are more than one) done during Ted's 'creative signature' phase, or maybe they were done by a secretary or someone else signing for Ted.

I am extremely cautious when purchasing something like an autograph - I look at LOTS of examples first, and if there is anything whatsoever about the item that says 'run', I leave it alone and wait for the right one.

Thanks. If we have to move this to another thread so be it but I would like additional feedback. The TPA in question provided a COA and then removed it and gave a no-opinion not a rejection. From my experience that's unique...to say the least. I have purchased the photo regardless but information is appreciated.

[Runscott]

Thanks. If we have to move this to another thread so be it but I would like additional feedback. The TPA in question provided a COA and then removed it and gave a no-opinion not a rejection. From my experience that's unique...to say the least. I have purchased the photo regardless but information is appreciated.

Since the auction's over now, I doubt anyone really minds. Since I last posted, 'someone' has shown me another example with a 'W' that looks like yours. Could be that's the way he signed during that period.

Bottom line - if you gather what info you can, and you are happy with the situation, then that's all that counts.

[Splinte1941]

Since the auction's over now, I doubt anyone really minds. Since I last posted, 'someone' has shown me another example with a 'W' that looks like yours. Could be that's the way he signed during that period.

Bottom line - if you gather what info you can, and you are happy with the situation, then that's all that counts.

I guess if one looks hard enough information is available.

Check out eBay item # 120855205215

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1939-40-RED-SOX-POGRAM-SIGNED-AUTOGRAPHED-PSA-DNA-JIMMIE-FOXX-TED-WILLIAMS-12408-/120855205215?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2388155f#ht_3485wt_922


We're getting warmer...

[Splinte1941]

http://www.lelands.com/Auction/AuctionDetail/52226/November-2009-Catalog/Sports/Baseball-Autographs/Lot179~1939-Ted-Williams-Rookie-Signed-Photo

I'm at the end of this journey. Thanks to Dave for the bargain on Lot # 37. It's taken me 5 minutes to find exemplars others say didnt exist.

[Tedw9]

I got there just before the break, which gave me time to walk around and take pics.

I was able to land lot 682, a bat thought to be used by Ted as a hitting instructor. I was happy with the price, I think it ending near the end of the auction helped my cause and my wallet. :D

[perezfan]

Yep... the later lots always seem to be a better bargain. I have been to Hunt Live Auctions, in which less than a dozen people remain in the room when things are closing down (last hundred lots or so).

Congrats!

[thekingofclout]

.

[travrosty]

i wonder if jsa will reverse his decision now?

[Splinte1941]

Here's one more for you Jake. This stellar c. 1940 Williams GPC belongs to fellow board member Ben (foreveryoung).

62486

Wow. Thanks King. The reason for the No-Opinion is that JSA had never encountered that style before. If thats true, it's pretty embarassing in light of what's been provided here, but I don't buy that excuse. The "W" doesn't really match but there's plenty of smoke there.

Is Ben taking offers on that? LOL

[Splinte1941]

i wonder if jsa will reverse his decision now?

Travis, don't bet any money on it. I'll let you know what PSA says for the hell of it.

[RichardSimon]

GPC's can be secretarial, not saying that the above one is, just saying they can be.
Here is one that is from an insurance application in 1949.
I would say with 99.999% certainty that it is authentic.

[Runscott]

http://www.lelands.com/Auction/AuctionDetail/52226/November-2009-Catalog/Sports/Baseball-Autographs/Lot179~1939-Ted-Williams-Rookie-Signed-Photo

I'm at the end of this journey. Thanks to Dave for the bargain on Lot # 37. It's taken me 5 minutes to find exemplars others say didnt exist.

No one said they didn't exist. If you are happy with the examples that you found, and with the signature you bought, then that's all that counts.

I'm overly-cautious when I buy autographed items, and the 'good' examples I found did not match up. But as I stated previously (I think, twice), the thing that bothered me was that no one had any information to give you, despite all the experts on this forum. I finally spoke up with some detail, you found examples, the experts came out of the closet. It's all good.

[Splinte1941]

No one said they didn't exist. If you are happy with the examples that you found, and with the signature you bought, then that's all that counts.

I'm overly-cautious when I buy autographed items, and the 'good' examples I found did not match up. But as I stated previously (I think, twice), the thing that bothered me was that no one had any information to give you, despite all the experts on this forum. I finally spoke up with some detail, you found examples, the experts came out of the closet. It's all good.

If you don't think the Leyland's example is close to the one I bought then we'll agree to disagree, but then that's the major problem with this entire business, isn't it? I appreciate your candor and you did force the "experts" to come out of the closet. It is very curious that no one stepped up to offer an opinion here other than yourself. I will probably submit this to JSA as well and see what happens.

[travrosty]

it's just two guys opinion, grad and spence, they don't know any more than you, me or the guys who showed the examples here.

the problem is that if someone like me, richard, or another knowledgable collector on this forum took our time, we could find and catalogue the exemplars shown here and figure it out. but it would take a few hours, jsa and psa don't have a few hours for each autograph they precert.

that is why they have a few minutes to give it thumbs up, thumbs down, or no opinion, which they rarely give a no opinion. that's why their opinion has to be taken with a big grain of salt. they don't have the time to do a thorough investigation.

If it took 7 days of researching for them to figure out that the photo was indeed signed by williams in a vintage form of his signature, then that is something they won't do, because 7 days of salary to them isn't worth it.

but the truth doesn't have a time limit. you can do your own searching, take as much time as you like, and figure it out yourself. and your opinion on the final outcome of whether it is real or not is just as valid, and actually even more valid than the 10 minutes they spent to give an opinion that is under the gun vis-a-vis a time limit.

[Splinte1941]

it's just two guys opinion, grad and spence, they don't know any more than you, me or the guys who showed the examples here.

the problem is that if someone like me, richard, or another knowledgable collector on this forum took our time, we could find and catalogue the exemplars shown here and figure it out. but it would take a few hours, jsa and psa don't have a few hours for each autograph they precert.

that is why they have a few minutes to give it thumbs up, thumbs down, or no opinion, which they rarely give a no opinion. that's why their opinion has to be taken with a big grain of salt. they don't have the time to do a thorough investigation.

If it took 7 days of researching for them to figure out that the photo was indeed signed by williams in a vintage form of his signature, then that is something they won't do, because 7 days of salary to them isn't worth it.

but the truth doesn't have a time limit. you can do your own searching, take as much time as you like, and figure it out yourself. and your opinion on the final outcome of whether it is real or not is just as valid, and actually even more valid than the 10 minutes they spent to give an opinion that is under the gun vis-a-vis a time limit.

Agreed Travis. Thank you for your insight and help.

[RichardSimon]

it's just two guys opinion, grad and spence, they don't know any more than you, me or the guys who showed the examples here.

the problem is that if someone like me, richard, or another knowledgable collector on this forum took our time, we could find and catalogue the exemplars shown here and figure it out. but it would take a few hours, jsa and psa don't have a few hours for each autograph they precert.

that is why they have a few minutes to give it thumbs up, thumbs down, or no opinion, which they rarely give a no opinion. that's why their opinion has to be taken with a big grain of salt. they don't have the time to do a thorough investigation.

If it took 7 days of researching for them to figure out that the photo was indeed signed by williams in a vintage form of his signature, then that is something they won't do, because 7 days of salary to them isn't worth it.

but the truth doesn't have a time limit. you can do your own searching, take as much time as you like, and figure it out yourself. and your opinion on the final outcome of whether it is real or not is just as valid, and actually even more valid than the 10 minutes they spent to give an opinion that is under the gun vis-a-vis a time limit.

Having worked for PSA in the distant past, I know what you speak of when you talk about under the gun with a time limit.
I am sure that Ron Gordon and Jim Stinson will remember being rushed to do our jobs and the one time we asked to stay over another night to do the job properly and we were turned down by the powers that be.

[Splinte1941]

If you guys are interested in helping me gain some more insight into this signature please PM me. I am willing to compensate you for your time.

[travrosty]

Having worked for PSA in the distant past, I know what you speak of when you talk about under the gun with a time limit.



Richard, you know it!

For regular auction lots in a huge auction, they have a few minutes, then they will move on to the next item. if it is a blockbuster item, maybe they will spend more time on it.

if their time is worth 250 dollars an hour, then a 25 dollar submission is worth about 6 minutes of their time. if they spend more than that, they are losing money. so they will go with their best guess. what they should really do is give a no opinion most of the time if they don't know.

but they dont like to do that for 2 reasons.

#1. they don't get paid for it if they give a no opinion.

#2. they think that the collector thinks it is a sign of weakness. if they give a no opinion, then the collector sends it to the other company, which gives an opinion, they think the collector thinks that the first company doesn't know what they are doing because the 2nd company certed it, so the first company kind of feels pressured to give an opinion one way or the other so not to be seen as wishy washy.

what they don't realize is that an honest no opinion is nothing to be embarrassed about. not every autograph in the world can be figured out and it is honest and ethical to give a no opinion.

a no opinion does NOT mean the autograph is bad. some collectors think that this is what it means, but it doesn't. It simply means they cant give a definite opinion one way or another. it still might be good, might not be. but a no opinion is not a death sentence.

[Runscott]

If you don't think the Leyland's example is close to the one I bought then we'll agree to disagree, but then that's the major problem with this entire business, isn't it? I appreciate your candor and you did force the "experts" to come out of the closet. It is very curious that no one stepped up to offer an opinion here other than yourself. I will probably submit this to JSA as well and see what happens.

??? I didn't say anything about the Leyland's example. I'm glad that some good examples have been found that are almost certainly legitimate, that show the pointy-bottomed 'W'.

If you and I had spoken before you bought this photo, I would have said, "The 'W' looks weird - it's pointy-bottomed, and that's not how Williams normally signed. If you really want this photo, go dig around and find examples with pointy-bottomed 'W's, and let's compare them very carefully and decide what the odds are that they are legit."

[Splinte1941]

??? I didn't say anything about the Leyland's example. I'm glad that some good examples have been found that are almost certainly legitimate, that show the pointy-bottomed 'W'.

If you and I had spoken before you bought this photo, I would have said, "The 'W' looks weird - it's pointy-bottomed, and that's not how Williams normally signed. If you really want this photo, go dig around and find examples with pointy-bottomed 'W's, and let's compare them very carefully and decide what the odds are that they are legit."

I misunderstood. My bad. Thanks.

[travrosty]

another collector had posted his 1939 signed photo of ted williams signed front and back on another thread. another pointy bottomed W in each signature, for what it is worth.

[Splinte1941]

another collector had posted his 1939 signed photo of ted williams signed front and back on another thread. another pointy bottomed W in each signature, for what it is worth.

I nearly bought this in Boston last year. I appreciate the post Travis. A truck load of variations in his 1939-1940 signatures. Who the hell knows in the end.

[Runscott]

I nearly bought this in Boston last year. I appreciate the post Travis. A truck load of variations in his 1939-1940 signatures. Who the hell knows in the end.

Yeah, it's odd how many things are different in Ted's autograph during that period. Last night I placed four examples next to each other and there were some very odd differences that would not have come naturally for him - concerted effort to change the direction he moved his pen, or some of them were not done by him.

[Jay Wolt]

Looks like the Ted Williams auction brought in $3.5 million

[Runscott]

Looks like the Ted Williams auction brought in $3.5 million

It was a kick-ass auction - Hunt seemed to do everything right. I feel extremely lucky to have come away with three lots.