card collectors company, and T206 Wagner

[zljones]

I found this flyer on the internet that shows the T206 Wagner as being worth $250 in 1964. It also lists the 52 Topps high number cards as $1.00 a piece. This got me wondering, is Card Collector's Company the first card shop in America? If not what was?
Another question I have is I see the Wagner was worth $250 in 1961, 1962, and 1964. Then I read old articles that said it was selling for $1,000+ by 1972-73. So what was the value of it in the late 60s and very early 70s? Does anyone recall how much it was selling for between 1964 and 1973? What about the T206 Plank, how much was that selling for in the 60s and 70s? What about the T206 Magie or the 33 Goudey Lajoie? How much did those go for in the 50s,60s, and 70s? If you remember any years during the 70s, 60s and 50s of how much any of these cards sold for in any given year can you post it?
I have price guides from 1979-1995 so I already know those values. I just want to know what happened before 1979. The Sports Card Collector's Bible I heard was loaded with innacuracies, even the 1977 reissue. I also do not want to pay the exorbinant amount of money dealers want this old price guide. I have Burdick's 1967 price guide but it is horribly innacurate for values. It says the Wagner was worth $50 in 1953,1960, 1967 which is way off. So can someone fill in the gaps for me. I am very interested in historic values.

http://www.marshallwest.com/cardcollectors'company,march1,1964

[tennisguy]

I am also interested in hearing what the Plank and Magie were valued at in the 50's and 60's?

[Bilko G]

How much was the Wagner worth in 1979???

Also, was there anyways to protect the cards in 1963, or did most people just rubber band them and put in the shoe box??

[Griffins]

I found this flyer on the internet that shows the T206 Wagner as being worth $250 in 1964. It also lists the 52 Topps high number cards as $1.00 a piece. This got me wondering, is Card Collector's Company the first card shop in America? If not what was?
http://www.marshallwest.com/cardcollectors'company,march1,1964


Goody Goldfadden's Adco Sports Book Exchange.
I think he started in Cleveland in the last 40's, moved it to LA probably in the '50's, and ran it here for decades. He just died recently.

[Steve D]

How much was the Wagner worth in 1979???


The first Beckett/Eckes Sports Americana Baseball Card Priceguide issued in 1979 lists the Wagner at $4,800 in mint, $4,000 in VG-E, and $2,000 in F-G.

It lists the Plank at $2,700 in mint, $2,200 in VG-E, and $1,000 in F-G.

Magie's at $400 in mint, $320 in VG-E, and $150 in F-G.

Commons are listed at $1.60 in mint, $1.20 in VG-E, and $.50 in F-G, with HOFers ranging from $9 - $20 in mint.

Steve

[zljones]

The first Beckett/Eckes Sports Americana Baseball Card Priceguide issued in 1979 lists the Wagner at $4,800 in mint, $4,000 in VG-E, and $2,000 in F-G.

It lists the Plank at $2,700 in mint, $2,200 in VG-E, and $1,000 in F-G.

Magie's at $400 in mint, $320 in VG-E, and $150 in F-G.

Commons are listed at $1.60 in mint, $1.20 in VG-E, and $.50 in F-G, with HOFers ranging from $10 - $20 in mint.

Steve

Yup and the 52 Mantle was $500.

[zljones]

Goody Goldfadden's Adco Sports Book Exchange.
I think he started in Cleveland in the last 40's, moved it to LA probably in the '50's, and ran it here for decades. He just died recently.

Wow I would have never thought card shops existed in the 40s.

[Bilko G]

Yup and the 52 Mantle was $500.


Hmm that's interesting info.

What about protection and storage? When that advertisement to sell cards was printed in 1963, was there any special ways people protected the cards? What year did the plastic sheets for binders come about? Was that the first way people protected their cards?

I wonder how these companies back in 1963 would ship cards to people when they bought them? I wonder if they put them between cardboard or anything, or did they just send them in PWE?

[g_vezina_c55]

IN the 30, wagner was 50$ and plank 10$

[benjulmag]

In the early to mid-'70s, Wagners were regarded as $1,500 cards. Condition then was much less of a factor than it is today, and from the perspective of one who was looking to acquire to acquire a Wagner at that price, I would have been happy with a vg card (by 1970's vg standards). By the mid-'80s, when I finally acquired a Wagner, I paid $25,500 for one (ungraded but most likely a solid 5 by today's standards). At the time, to my knowledge, it was the highest price ever paid for a baseball card. Another top Wagner, the former Halper example that is now at the HOF, was on the market for $27,500. It had been auctioned by Lew Lipset in the '80's (1982 as I recall), for a tad over 25k. As the '80's wore on offering prices for high end (vg-ex and better) Wagners were moving steadily up, but still in 5 figures. It was not until the watershed Copeland sale at Sotheby's when the "8" (raw at the time) sold did the prices for Wagners explode. What is interesting is that even then the rumors were rampant that "the card" was trimmed.

[Bilko G]

Wow Corey, so at one time you had paid the most ever for a Baseball card?!?! Thats is one amazing thing and definitely something to be proud of, amazing!!!:eek:

[benjulmag]

Wow Corey, so at one time you had paid the most ever for a Baseball card?!?! Thats is one amazing thing and definitely something to be proud of, amazing!!!:eek:

What is amazing about it and the only reason I mentioned it was to illustrate how much cards have appreciated over the years. Today a person can easily spend 25k for a condition rarity Topps or Bowman (non-Mantle) card.

[Bilko G]

What is amazing about it and the reason I mentioned it was to illustrate how much cards have appreciated over the years. Today a person can easily spend 25k for a condition rarity Topps or Bowman (non-Mantle) card.

or for a brand new superfractor of the latest and greatest prospect:rolleyes:

[g_vezina_c55]

In the early to mid-'70s, Wagners were regarded as $1,500 cards. Condition then was much less of a factor than it is today, and from the perspective of one who was looking to acquire to acquire a Wagner at that price, I would have been happy with a vg card (by 1970's vg standards). By the mid-'80s, when I finally acquired a Wagner, I paid $25,500 for one (ungraded but most likely a solid 5 by today's standards). At the time, to my knowledge, it was the highest price ever paid for a baseball card. Another top Wagner, the former Halper example that is now at the HOF, was on the market for $27,500. It had been auctioned by Lew Lipset in the '80's (1982 as I recall), for a tad over 25k. As the '80's wore on offering prices for high end (vg-ex and better) Wagners were moving steadily up, but still in 5 figures. It was not until the watershed Copeland sale at Sotheby's when the "8" (raw at the time) sold did the prices for Wagners explode. What is interesting is that even then the rumors were rampant that "the card" was trimmed.


Your answer is verry nice to read thx to share your experience.

Do you still have your wagner?

[benjulmag]

Thanks for the response. Yes, I still have my Wagner.

[g_vezina_c55]

Thanks for the response. Yes, I still have my Wagner.


Wow amazing. Thx for share your story.

owning a wagner will only be a dream in my life. the most valuable card i will ever own
in my life is and will be my t206 plank.

[benjulmag]

...the most valuable card i will ever own
in my life is and will be my t206 plank.

Congrats on that, a card that would be on anybody's short list of great cards to own!

[g_vezina_c55]

yep
it is not many people who will own a t206 plank in her life.

thx for the comment.

[zljones]

Hmm that's interesting info.

What about protection and storage? When that advertisement to sell cards was printed in 1963, was there any special ways people protected the cards? What year did the plastic sheets for binders come about? Was that the first way people protected their cards?

I wonder how these companies back in 1963 would ship cards to people when they bought them? I wonder if they put them between cardboard or anything, or did they just send them in PWE?

Good question I always wondered that myself.

[zljones]

In the early to mid-'70s, Wagners were regarded as $1,500 cards. Condition then was much less of a factor than it is today, and from the perspective of one who was looking to acquire to acquire a Wagner at that price, I would have been happy with a vg card (by 1970's vg standards). By the mid-'80s, when I finally acquired a Wagner, I paid $25,500 for one (ungraded but most likely a solid 5 by today's standards). At the time, to my knowledge, it was the highest price ever paid for a baseball card. Another top Wagner, the former Halper example that is now at the HOF, was on the market for $27,500. It had been auctioned by Lew Lipset in the '80's (1982 as I recall), for a tad over 25k. As the '80's wore on offering prices for high end (vg-ex and better) Wagners were moving steadily up, but still in 5 figures. It was not until the watershed Copeland sale at Sotheby's when the "8" (raw at the time) sold did the prices for Wagners explode. What is interesting is that even then the rumors were rampant that "the card" was trimmed.

I heard that back in 1972 there was a convention and a college student supposdly paid $1,500 for a Wagner. That was believed to be the story until years later it was said that someone made up that story and there was no college student that paid $1,500. I have come accross articles from 1973-1975 that say it was worth $1,000-$1,500. I also wonder about the late 60s.

[Steve D]

Hmm that's interesting info.

What about protection and storage? When that advertisement to sell cards was printed in 1963, was there any special ways people protected the cards? What year did the plastic sheets for binders come about? Was that the first way people protected their cards?


I know that by 1976 Enor was making the nine-pocket sheets for cards. I know this because that's the year I started buying the complete Topps sets (from Larry Fritsch), and I remember putting all the cards (2 to a pocket) in the sheets. These were the sheets that contained mass quantities of PVC, and after a while, they turned very oily.

Steve

[mrvster]

Corey!!

Congrats!!it's my dream card and i'm striving hopefully one day to trade all my t206 freaks and rarities for one:)

[barrysloate]

A postscript to Corey's story: when he purchased his Wagner he discovered that the seller had another one for sale, a low grade example that he priced at $8250. Corey called me and told me about it, and I ended up buying that one. But because buying and selling baseball cards was my sole source of income, I sold it about eighteen months later. I doubled my money and thought I made a great deal. As time passed I of course realized it was a mistake not keeping it. But part of business is turning over inventory, so that's what I did.:(

[g_vezina_c55]

A postscript to Corey's story: when he purchased his Wagner he discovered that the seller had another one for sale, a low grade example that he priced at $8250. Corey called me and told me about it, and I ended up buying that one. But because buying and selling baseball cards was my sole source of income, I sold it about eighteen months later. I doubled my money and thought I made a great deal. As time passed I of course realized it was a mistake not keeping it. But part of business is turning over inventory, so that's what I did.:(



wow i love to read all your Wagner story.... it is amazing to hear old experienced collector like you ... thanks to share these story !!!

Do you have any pic of these 2 Wagner ? And do you know where you Wagner is by now ??

[barrysloate]

I didn't save a picture of my Wagner, but it's easy to pick out in a crowd. Somewhere there is a gallery of Wagners- I'm sure someone could link it up to this thread- and mine was the one with the upper left corner missing.

[travrosty]

I didn't save a picture of my Wagner, but it's easy to pick out in a crowd. Somewhere there is a gallery of Wagners- I'm sure someone could link it up to this thread- and mine was the one with the upper left corner missing.




http://centuryoldcards.com/1909t206wagners.html


is it 5th row, second one in?

[barrysloate]

That's it indeed Travis. Thanks for posting.

I do recall being bothered by that missing corner...often when I looked at it I would place my left thumb over the missing piece to imagine what it would look like without the flaw. I think part of the reason I sold it was that the missing corner bothered me, and I couldn't get past it.

[g_vezina_c55]

Thanks for the link !!

It is verry nice to see all these wagner side by side.

Any Galery like this for the Plank ?

I love the fourth Wagner at the first row... it look like in beautifull condition.

I understand at this time selling card is your money source, but probably no 1 day pass without thinking about this card ! :)

But you can said 1 thing that almost every collector can tell : ' you own a wagner for 18 month '

heheh

[fkw]

I started a page on the T206 Planks too, Im up to 23 different (only spend an hour so far), but its not online yet.

Also have a 1914-35 Babe Ruth type card gallery in the works (96+ dif so far).
(please dont get upset if your card is pictured ;), all images are from auction catalogs and the internet)


The T206 Wagner page is up to 34 now, I just added the recently talked about B&W (image) Piedmont card listed in an old The Trader Speaks for sale
http://centuryoldcards.com/1909t206wagners.html

[g_vezina_c55]

I started a page on the T206 Planks too, Im up to 23 different (only spend an hour so far), but its not online yet.

Also have a 1914-35 Babe Ruth type card gallery in the works (96+ dif so far).
(please dont get upset if your card is pictured ;), all images are from auction catalogs and the internet)


The T206 Wagner page is up to 34 now, I just added the recently talked about B&W (image) Piedmont card listed in an old The Trader Speaks for sale
http://centuryoldcards.com/1909t206wagners.html


Nice , impatient to see Online your Plank page !

[atx840]

Can't wait to see it Frank, the wags page has been very helpful.

Here is Wonka's Plank page.

http://imageevent.com/piojohn3/collectionpublic/planks

[g_vezina_c55]

Can't wait to see it Frank, the wags page has been very helpful.

Here is Wonka's Plank page.

http://imageevent.com/piojohn3/collectionpublic/planks

I see all your plank picture and i realize i own the more creased plank in the world lol

[atx840]

True, but it's yours and it has wonderful provenance.

[Bilko G]

I see all your plank picture and i realize i own the more creased plank in the world lol


which Plank is you???

[g_vezina_c55]

which Plank is you???


Lionel Carter Plank.

[g_vezina_c55]

True, but it's yours and it has wonderful provenance.

Yep you are right !

I just receive the auction dvd of lionel carter and liste it now... I lovethehistory of my card hehe

[atx840]

T206resource released a Wagner Sales History page with dates going back to the 91 Gretzky sale.

http://t206resource.com/WagnerSales.html

[Bilko G]

Lionel Carter Plank.


OH WOW!! Very, very cool!!!!:cool:

[HoofHearted]

Also, was there anyways to protect the cards in 1963, or did most people just rubber band them and put in the shoe box??

I was excited to see the name "Card Collectors Company" in a post! When I was a kid collecting in the '60s I ordered from Mr. Gelman's company trying to complete the 1962 Topps Ruth and World Series subsets. I just scanned the CCC Catalog #14 from 1963. On page 7 are a couple storage devices you might be interested in:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/HoofHearted53/Card%20Collectors%20Company%20Images/CCC_Catalog_1963_Issue14_page01.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/HoofHearted53/Card%20Collectors%20Company%20Images/CCC_Catalog_1963_Issue14_page02.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/HoofHearted53/Card%20Collectors%20Company%20Images/CCC_Catalog_1963_Issue14_page03.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/HoofHearted53/Card%20Collectors%20Company%20Images/CCC_Catalog_1963_Issue14_page04.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/HoofHearted53/Card%20Collectors%20Company%20Images/CCC_Catalog_1963_Issue14_page05.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/HoofHearted53/Card%20Collectors%20Company%20Images/CCC_Catalog_1963_Issue14_page06.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/HoofHearted53/Card%20Collectors%20Company%20Images/CCC_Catalog_1963_Issue14_page07.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/HoofHearted53/Card%20Collectors%20Company%20Images/CCC_Catalog_1963_Issue14_page08.jpg

[HoofHearted]

I wonder how these companies back in 1963 would ship cards to people when they bought them? I wonder if they put them between cardboard or anything, or did they just send them in PWE?

Here's an envelope in which I received cards from the CCC. I don't recall how the cards were protected -- if at all...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/HoofHearted53/Card%20Collectors%20Company%20Images/CCC_Catalog_mailing_env_front_ed.jpg

[Bilko G]

Thank you Mike B. Very, very interesting!

[zljones]

[QUOTE=HoofHearted;985486]Here's an envelope in which I received cards from the CCC. I don't recall how the cards were protected -- if at all...

I am glad you shared that because the one I shared is one year later and still showing the Wagner as $250. Maybe the Wagner was going up in value throughout the 60s just no one was updating their info, unless it truly stayed at $250 from 61-64.

[HoofHearted]

I am glad you shared that because the one I shared is one year later and still showing the Wagner as $250. Maybe the Wagner was going up in value throughout the 60s just no one was updating their info, unless it truly stayed at $250 from 61-64.

I also have CCC catalog issue #19 from 1968 and it still shows a $250 value on the Wagner. Either the value stayed the same or the CCC didn't change the value in their catalog. I'd be curious to see if there are any other price guides with differing values from that time period.

[zljones]

I also have CCC catalog issue #19 from 1968 and it still shows a $250 value on the Wagner. Either the value stayed the same or the CCC didn't change the value in their catalog. I'd be curious to see if there are any other price guides with differing values from that time period.

Nice that is a time period I was curious about the most, the late 60s. Now you got me really wondering if that was the real price in 68, I wish there was another source to verify what CCC said in 68.

[HoofHearted]

And here is the first page of Issue #20 from 1968:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/HoofHearted53/CardCollCo_catalog02.jpg

[zljones]

[QUOTE=HoofHearted;985811]And here is the first page of Issue #20 from 1968:

Now that is awesome because I have also been trying to follow the history of the value of 52 Topps High number. In the 64 issue they wanted $1 each, looks like that did not change in 4 years. I am thinking there was a complete lag in values in the 60s for higher end cards. Prices must have exploded right around 1972-73. In 1973 the 52 Topps High number was $5-$10 a piece, according to a old news article I read from 73. Thanks for sharing that.

[HoofHearted]

My pleasure, Zach! I've got a few more flyers from the CCC that I'm going to try to scan and share soon. I'll put them in this thread...tbc

[zljones]

My pleasure, Zach! I've got a few more flyers from the CCC that I'm going to try to scan and share soon. I'll put them in this thread...tbc

Excellent especially if they are from after 1968 then maybe we can eventually see a price increase on the 52 high numbers and the T206 Wagner. It's interesting to see when these prices shot up, now my gap is narrowing to a span of 5 years instead of 9 for not knowing when the prices climbed.

[HoofHearted]

The rest of the CCC material I scanned has been presented in the post-war forum. Here's a link to that thread: The Card Collectors Company items (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?p=986015#post986015)

Thanks!

[HoofHearted]

Keeping on the T206 and CCC prices theme, here are the T206 prices in a 1981 price list:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/HoofHearted53/Card%20Collectors%20Company%20Images/CCC_1981_Aug_T206_price_list.jpg

[zljones]

[QUOTE=HoofHearted;986215]Keeping on the T206 and CCC prices theme, here are the T206 prices in a 1981 price list:

That seems about right according to Sports Card Americana issue#3 from 1981.