Advice on Early 70's sets

[skelly]

When I got back into the hobby, I purchased a box of about 1200-1500 cards-
All low number common from 1970-1972. I've since nickle and dimed my way to being about 70-100 cards left for each set. I have some stars, high numbers, really not much rhyme or reason to what I still need. But the question is this, I just have no motivation to buy cards like the 71 Aaron, 70 Banks, basically the star players from the late 50's- 60's that were still in the game. Should I hold the sets and see if I ever get the urge to complete them, or should I just sell ( they are mid-grade, quite a few are off center, etc ) and put the money I get towards other collecting projects?- Thoughts, advice, has this ever happened to you, etc..

[ALR-bishop]

I like these sets, especially the 72. And, along with the73, were the last sets before Topps stopped selling in series. But if they don't grab you as a collector, I would move on since in mid grade they are not an investment.

[steve B]

That's a tough question.
Those are some nice sets, but as Al said aren't good as an investment unless they're in higher grades.(Except maybe 71's, very high grade 71's are fairly tough and that sort of pushes demand into the mid grades) I think they'll do ok, but other stuff will always do better. I wish I'd bought some sets back when I started and they were cheap.

That being said, what are your collecting goals?
And how reachable are those goals for you financially ?

If those sets include cards that fit your goals or may fit your goals then keeping them may be a better way to go. (Like collecting team sets or runs of a few particular players)

But if your goals are running towards registry sets or prewar or just rookie cards then moving some of the 70's stuff will be better.

Persoanlly I like mid grade cards. I don't feel nervous handling them, or letting friends look through them. And a bit of honest wear sometimes adds a bit of charachter. (I'm ok with beaters and really high grade cards too, I just look at them differently)

Steve B

[RobertGT]

I would keep them for now, but not attempt to fill in the holes by card-by-card by haggling with dealers at shows or on ebay, etc. The way 1970s stuff is coming out of the wordwork now, it should be pretty easy to purchase large lots or entire collections and then fill in the holes with one shot from the bulk you have accumulated. After that, sell-off of the excess dups and what you do not want, and fill in the sets basically for free.

Once the sets are complete you can sell them then, as they will bring a much better price.

Good luck!

[betafolio2]

That's a tough question.
Personally I like mid grade cards. I don't feel nervous handling them, or letting friends look through them. And a bit of honest wear sometimes adds a bit of character. (I'm ok with beaters and really high grade cards too, I just look at them differently)

Steve B

Funny, but there are probably as many definitions for "mid grade" as there are baseball card collectors. Some would probably consider mid grade to be anything that doesn't warrant a PSA 7 or higher, while others might consider mid grade to mean cards that display obvious corner wear, perhaps a few light creases, some surface wear -- in other words, more like a PSA 4 or 5. I'm convinced that the average meaning of mid grade has tended to slide downward as PSA has created and then continued to feed the artificial appetite for super-high-end cards that qualify for PSA 9 or 10 status. I for one belong to the club of collectors who receive great joy in cracking cards out of their plastic prisons, so I'm obviously not hung up on a PSA number. My chief concern is how nice a card looks to my own eyes -- and how consistent it'll look alongside other cards in my set binders.

[ALR-bishop]

Congratulations, you are a hobbyist and a collector and not an investor

[mintacular]

I would say keep 'em if you think the urge to own/complete the sets will come back...If you sell them now, and wish to get them back, you'd probably be best off financially to plunk down 1K/ea. on the set and that won't be nearly as fun as trying to plug the holes you now have in those sets...That said, if you have zero interest in them and doubt it will come back then you should sell them obviously

[sox1903wschamp]

My chief concern is how nice a card looks to my own eyes -- and how consistent it'll look alongside other cards in my set binders.


Well put.

[steve B]

Some good points there. For "investment" I suppose I mean anything that isn't exceptionally nice. Investment to me means working most of the potential angles, including the registry crowd.

Personally I consider "mid grade" to be what's usually vg through vg-ex. So no creases but worn corners, and typical early 70's centering. Or maybe sharp corners and typical centering. That pretty much describes my whole collection as far as 70's goes. I know I have some worse and some better, but It's not something I worry about.
I only have a few graded cards, nearly all prewar, and nearly all ones I sent in. The few modern ones are from packs, I think a couple "edge graded" football and maybe one or two random graded baseball that came in a lot.

The grading is something I'm ambivalent about. I typically base my decisions on my own grading scale
Awful - trimmed, missing bits, writing, stains etc.
Not horrible- worn, maybe a couple creases.
Pretty good- no creases but not great corners.
Nice- decent corners and no creasing.
Really nice- sharp corners decent centering.
wow- nearly perfect

And I enjoy some of the written on cards as much as the nearly perfect ones.

I don't worry much about the cards matching the rest of a set either, but I know I'm a bit odd in that. (I did briefly consider trying to complete some set with a wax wrapper stain on each card, but that would take way more focus than I have)

Steve B


Funny, but there are probably as many definitions for "mid grade" as there are baseball card collectors. Some would probably consider mid grade to be anything that doesn't warrant a PSA 7 or higher, while others might consider mid grade to mean cards that display obvious corner wear, perhaps a few light creases, some surface wear -- in other words, more like a PSA 4 or 5. I'm convinced that the average meaning of mid grade has tended to slide downward as PSA has created and then continued to feed the artificial appetite for super-high-end cards that qualify for PSA 9 or 10 status. I for one belong to the club of collectors who receive great joy in cracking cards out of their plastic prisons, so I'm obviously not hung up on a PSA number. My chief concern is how nice a card looks to my own eyes -- and how consistent it'll look alongside other cards in my set binders.

[theseeker]

why are mid-grade sets from the seventies not considered an investment? The way I see it, it's supply and demand, so if interest drops in these sets, it will be across the board. As a matter of fact, high-grade investors are likely to take the bigger hit. It seems to me, if history is any indicator, there will be proportional price movement, according to grade. All the price guides have a means of pricing sets in various grades. High-grade sets sell for more but, obviously cost more and are more time consumming to obtain. And one more thing to consider, they are less liquid as they tend to take longer to sell.
It's all relative, if you're trying to complete a mid-grade set, then you complete it with mid-grade cards. For bargain hunters, there is greater price fluxuations with mid-grades, so it could be worth the effort to complete the sets. Of course, as the saying goes "time is money."
P.S., why are seventies sets now "coming out of the woodwork?"

[steve B]

I think the early 70's cards will show some modest gains over a few more years. especially 71s. But I've been wrong plenty of times before. Mid 70's might also be ok, and late 70's might not be "good" for some time. Not really an "investment" but some might look at it that way.

It all depends on how people come to view the era and the cards. Eventually the early -mid 70's might be seen as the last era before drug use, free agency creating huge salaries and the game and players getting somewhat unapproachable.

Card collecting had a huge boost from about 75- 81 as well, along with somewhat increased production.

I think we're seeing a lot of 70's stuff becoming available as the few adult collectors of the time get older - if you were 30 in 82 you're 60 now and maybe downsizing or getting ready for retirement. And many who collected then while younger might need money in tight times and will sell the 70's stuff as it's replaceable but still worth enough to sell.

Steve B

[RobertGT]

I think the early 70's cards will show some modest gains over a few more years. especially 71s. But I've been wrong plenty of times before. Mid 70's might also be ok, and late 70's might not be "good" for some time. Not really an "investment" but some might look at it that way.

It all depends on how people come to view the era and the cards. Eventually the early -mid 70's might be seen as the last era before drug use, free agency creating huge salaries and the game and players getting somewhat unapproachable.

Card collecting had a huge boost from about 75- 81 as well, along with somewhat increased production.

I think we're seeing a lot of 70's stuff becoming available as the few adult collectors of the time get older - if you were 30 in 82 you're 60 now and maybe downsizing or getting ready for retirement. And many who collected then while younger might need money in tight times and will sell the 70's stuff as it's replaceable but still worth enough to sell.

Steve B

+1. The hope is that as the Baby Boomers decide to part with their collections, there will be a significant number of people in the 25-40 age group who have the interest and financial means to catch these collections and keep the hobby moving in a positive direction. I am 37 and trying to do my part.

[theseeker]

+1. The hope is that as the Baby Boomers decide to part with their collections, there will be a significant number of people in the 25-40 age group who have the interest and financial means to catch these collections and keep the hobby moving in a positive direction. I am 37 and trying to do my part.

Sorry, but I'm just not seeing any evidence of 1970's cards "coming out of the woodwork." So if I have it straight, people who were 30 in '82 and would have grown up collecting early '60's cards, are now selling off there 1970's cards to prepare for retirement??? All this is loosely anecdotal at best.

This does, in a round about way bring up the greater issue of an aging hobby going forward as the baby boomer generation heads further into retirement age. As far as moving the hobby forward, the fact a 37 year old is taking up the cause as a young vangaurd of the hobby is telling. And by moving forward, does that mean sustaining prices? Because, it is the investment angle that killed off the hobby interest of the majority of those in their late 20's and early 30's, after the investment craze of the late '80's/early '90's abrutely turned cardboard investments into "shiny junk." The new card quality ushered in by UD in 1989 was a huge leap forward for the industry. Unfortunately, they were viewed (and sold) mostly as investments. As a result, those younger than this age group largely haven't grown up with collector interest and simply won't pick it up as adults.

[mintacular]

I think the early 70s will hold some value, lots of HOFers like Mays, Aaron, Banks, Clemente on their way out with new rookies/stars coming in...The high series cards will always have some tougher cards to find so break out potential there. Lot of bang for your buck/affordable for most collectors 700+ cards from this time era in EX for around 1K make it fun for collectors to chase

[steve B]

Not so much the baby boom as the cards as a collectible boom that existed for much of the mid 70's to mid 80's (With a bit of a dip in 81)

The guys who were 30 in 81 had collected as kids, and either looked at completing sets or buying stuff that had been tossed. I'm only using 30 as a rough age, that's about the time many people that collect something get into it somewhat seriously. Student loans paid off, career going well, etc.

When I started being more "serious" about cards in 77-78 There were a few adults, and some kids that collected, maybe 50/50 (Not counting kids that just bought packs at the corner store) I had 4 friends that collected during high school, and none of them would admit it around non-collectors. By 84 that had really changed, card collecting had become acceptable as a hobby for an adult, and there were more older guys buying cards.

So a lot of people who were 30-40 got into collecting and without a large number of sets it was common to buy the new ones already sorted into sets each year. And many dealers carried early 70's sets (Fritsch supplied many of them and may still be working off their inventory bought as new vending cases. )
I had a "job" sorting cards into sets each spring, paid in trade value instead of cash until all three companies made factory sets. Fleer in 82, topps and donruss a bit later. (Or maybe at the same time but more expensive than vending?)

Personally I never bought the "quality" of Upper Deck. Bland design, the silly hologram, the cardboard that made 81 donruss seem sturdy.....And all at double the price- what a bargain!

Steve B


Sorry, but I'm just not seeing any evidence of 1970's cards "coming out of the woodwork." So if I have it straight, people who were 30 in '82 and would have grown up collecting early '60's cards, are now selling off there 1970's cards to prepare for retirement??? All this is loosely anecdotal at best.

This does, in a round about way bring up the greater issue of an aging hobby going forward as the baby boomer generation heads further into retirement age. As far as moving the hobby forward, the fact a 37 year old is taking up the cause as a young vangaurd of the hobby is telling. And by moving forward, does that mean sustaining prices? Because, it is the investment angle that killed off the hobby interest of the majority of those in their late 20's and early 30's, after the investment craze of the late '80's/early '90's abrutely turned cardboard investments into "shiny junk." The new card quality ushered in by UD in 1989 was a huge leap forward for the industry. Unfortunately, they were viewed (and sold) mostly as investments. As a result, those younger than this age group largely haven't grown up with collector interest and simply won't pick it up as adults.

[theseeker]

Well your view of UD and all the premium cards that followed is the majority opinion on this board. I, however, still say the negative feelings towards these cards has everything to do with how they ended up as investments and little to do with their overall quality. I'm sure if they're honest, there are some board members still stuck with a case of 1991 series 1 Leaf.

It's all about perception and opinion. One man's simple design is another man's clean, classic look. As for those "silly" holograms, I wish they would have come around decades earlier. Would have thwarted most of the dead serious counterfieting that still casts a dark shadow over the hobby.

And speaking of silly, 1981 Donruss cardboard Vs. 1989 UD, you can't be serious with that one. You never bothered comparing picture quality. As a true collector, I honestly wish UD, Stadium Club, and Leaf had come about a generation sooner. That way, the cards of my youth would be a vastly superior product and now obtainable at a tiny fraction of the cost. A bargain in my book.

[chris6net]

I have a soft spot for 71,s 72,s. I don,t really see a dip but I have seen a stagnation in the prices especially for low number cards. I know I can buy a complete set for $1000 but I would rather pay double to put together a set by buying some large lots and piecing the rest together.

[Exhibitman]

1970-1973 cards are common. No denying it. You can pick up a set or assemble a set every day of the week. That said, I don't think you can go wrong with pre-1974 cards--even in lower grades--if you can get in at the right price. Since the supply isn't short enough to create true scarcity-based demand [like for an E107], the whims of collectors will dictate the pricing. I happen to believe that given the rotten economy of the last few years and the uncertainty going forward, that lower grade cards are where a lot of collectors will go when it comes to the 1970s stuff. It is the "safe" way to collect--if everything turns to crap economically, you won't be out a fortune on them. I know I've sold off all of the high grade stuff from the 1950s-1960s and will probably do the same for the 1970s cards, and replaced it with lower grade versions that cost a small fraction of their prices. And I find that I can enjoy them just the same. I have never been a condition bug, though, so a crease or worn corner has never been an issue for me anyway. I collected higher grade cards simply because I had the opportunity to acquire them.

Also wanted to chime in on the 1981 Donruss v. 1989 UD debate, aka old school vs. shiny stuff. One of the things that I most enjoy to this day about busting packs of 1981 Fleer and Donruss is that there are very few 'perfect' cards as compared to more modern product. Although it is really nice for a collector not to get a bunch of o/c cards in every pack, I find the experience of busting pack after pack of 'perfect' cards to be oddly less satisfying. Now that may be the conditioning over the recent decades to think of everything as chase card oriented, but I tend to think that the issue is more that if nearly every card is nearly perfect, there isn't much challenge to finding a better card, except for the asinine gradations that the TPGs try to convince us exist between the 9-10-11.

[mintacular]

While early 70s cards are pretty available, complete sets are not. Currently there are about a dozen each from the years 1970-73 and most of these are priced at high retail and have been sitting on eBay for months...In other words, it's not like there are tons of these complete sets available for sale at realistic prices...When they are priced at 1K or under they usually sell very quickly or get tons of offers.

In terms of condition, I disagree with Exhibitman in that because 70s are not all that old I and are relatively plentiful I feel collectors are more choosy about condition whereas T collecting for example you have to take what you can get in terms of condition...

[Exhibitman]

That may be true, Patrick, but there are a lot of active collectors out there who are piecing together collections in the lower grades. One of the things I've noticed in attending shows [local and the National] is that the guys with the tables overflowing with mid and low grade stuff from pre-1974 down do very well.