Does anyone else wonder, "Why isn't this card graded?"

[betafolio2]

Is it just me, or does anyone else, upon seeing super-sharp 1950s or 1960s baseball cards listed by a relatively low-feedback seller on eBay, wonder why they weren't submitted for professional grading first? I've just noticed quite a few such cards (1950s Mantles, Clementes, etc.) currently listed, and the cards look like they'd warrant a PSA 7 or 8 at least. Common sense tells me that the cards, if genuine, would likely sell for a substantial premium if graded, because then there'd (presumably) be no question as to their authenticity. I myself feel a little nervous about bidding on unslabbed cards that look just "too good." I'm sure that's exactly what PSA had in mind when it went into business -- to "force" people into buying only graded cards. Still, I'd like to know what other collectors feel about this issue. Obviously people out there are bidding on these awesome-looking cards, but how often are they getting burned by ending up with all those unidentified reprints that are floating around out there?

[travrosty]

Is it just me, or does anyone else, upon seeing super-sharp 1950s or 1960s baseball cards listed by a relatively low-feedback seller on eBay, wonder why they weren't submitted for professional grading first? I've just noticed quite a few such cards (1950s Mantles, Clementes, etc.) currently listed, and the cards look like they'd warrant a PSA 7 or 8 at least. Common sense tells me that the cards, if genuine, would likely sell for a substantial premium if graded, because then there'd (presumably) be no question as to their authenticity. I myself feel a little nervous about bidding on unslabbed cards that look just "too good." I'm sure that's exactly what PSA had in mind when it went into business -- to "force" people into buying only graded cards. Still, I'd like to know what other collectors feel about this issue. Obviously people out there are bidding on these awesome-looking cards, but how often are they getting burned by ending up with all those unidentified reprints that are floating around out there?



they might be getting burned, but some people dont like graded cards, like some people dont like certified autographs. they already forced people to slab all their coins. thats what the company does, play off of fear. there is some risk to buying off of ebay from a low feedback seller versus a low time established dealer. almost all long time dealers offer graded cards anyway, but some sellers resent the fact they are considered "guilty" without any proof that they are doing anything wrong just because they like raw cards and don't need grades.

they have totally succeeded playing off of peoples fears with coins, cards are nearly to the same point, and autographs are halfway there. but when i buy an autograph, i pop it out of the encapsulated holder if it is in one, and i would do the same with a card if it was in an encapsulated-graded holder too. but that's just me.

[Leon]

This is the same for pre-war cards too. You have to look at the sellers other auctions, their history, the cards etc.... If they are not card-sellers then it's understandable. If they are selling other graded cards and these high end raw ones aren't, then there could be other issues to watch out for. Many times it's just an educated gamble. I do it quite often and sometimes do well and others times I don't.

[steve B]

With cards I'd be more concerned with trimming than the cards being fakes. There are some issues that are hard to tell, but most aren't.

I used to be against grading, I figured someone should become familiar with an issue before buying expensive star cards. Then a few years ago I saw a few things that made me start to change my mind.

The stacks of raw cards Simply weren't around at shows, when I started, nearly every dealer at every small show would have 50's and 60's cards in some quantity, and most had at least a few T cards or Goudeys.

So the opportunity to see and handle thousands of vintage cards and get a feel for what looked "right" just wasn't there.

At about the same time I started seeing dealers with loads of mid grade 50's cards slabbed, which seemed silly till I saw what the higher grades went for. I asked one dealer who said he wasn't a great grader, so he sent cards in in bulk. Thousands of them. And the prices he got for the high grades more than covered the grading of the mid grade ones.

I still have some worries about the acidic cardboard degrading inside the slab and the acid accelerating that process.

But I've become ambivalent about grading. I think it can be good for high grade cards and ones prone to reprinting. I don't think it's all that useful for low grade cards, except for ones that have been trimmed neatly and are hard to spot the alterations.

The downside is that any card that's oddly cut or undersize -even slabbed- is now suspect. They should have a way of slabbing well preserved cards that are outside the published specs.

Steve B

[smtjoy]

I would be wary of any high grade NM+ raw cards, there are some finds out there but more times than not there is something wrong with the card. Take the advice above, the seller will give you a better idea.

I do know a few of the large submitters like 4SC (sending in over a 1000 cards at a time) have seperate ebay accounts they use to sell off the cards that fail to grade the numbers they can make money slabbed at and sell them all offs as raw NM. Just something to know.

[egbeachley]

Sometimes a card you've enjoyed for a long time needs to be sold unexpectedly and you don't have time to send it in to be graded.

[David W]

Maybe the low feedback seller is legit, and just selling a long time collection, and knows little to nothing about how to get cards graded or see a reason to?

I'm sure there are lots of people like that out there. They don't read internet chat boards, they never heard of PSA or SGC, and think Beckett is a magazine.

Shoot, Lionel Carters cards weren't graded when they got stolen.

[alanu]

There are some sellers out there who buy nice looking graded EX cards and break them out and sell them raw as NM... not saying that is the case with this seller though, especially with the low feedback

[steve B]

I would be wary of any high grade NM+ raw cards, there are some finds out there but more times than not there is something wrong with the card. Take the advice above, the seller will give you a better idea.

I do know a few of the large submitters like 4SC (sending in over a 1000 cards at a time) have seperate ebay accounts they use to sell off the cards that fail to grade the numbers they can make money slabbed at and sell them all offs as raw NM. Just something to know.

Do they actually crack them out or just have it setup so anything that isn't a certain grade doesn't get slabbed? The cracking out seems like tons of work, but I guess if they can do it quickly it might work.

Steve B

[betafolio2]

Thanks, all, for the responses so far! Good points made all the way around! One thing I'd add to the discussion at this point is that I definitely lean toward sellers with a liberal return policy, ESPECIALLY if they're selling some really nice raw cards that I want. I think I'm pretty good at inspecting cards for trimming (nothing like a good loupe to check for the original Topps edge-cut patterns), wrinkles, etc., so if I have the option of returning a card if it fails inspection, I'll often take the chance. I just finished my 1971 NM Topps set (all raw) in January after 28 years, and I got VERY good at checking the cards for touched-up corners and edges. (And it's amazing how many times I had to return -- repeatedly -- the cards that would've finished my set because the edges had been doctored.) Unscrupulous people have gotten REALLY good at touching up the '71s, by the way. I saw some alterations that, perhaps, many others would've missed. One eBay seller even doubted my determination that one of his cards was altered. Oh, he gave me a full refund as promised, but he made his doubts known about my findings IN MY FEEDBACK! That really bothered me at first, but I'm over it. Anyway, thanks again to all of you for your thoughful responses!