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Sterling Sports Auctions
03-04-2012, 08:12 PM
By using the T206 Resource ranking of T206 backs:

http://t206resource.com/Back%20Rankings%20List.html

I find it curious that the prices of all these backs do not necessarily reflect the rankings. As most of you know I collect and follow Cycle 460s quite closely and the prices for them surpass many of the backs ahead of them. A prime example was a Duffy SGC 30 Sovereign 460 that finished at a little over $100, that card in same grade in a Cycle 460 would go for at least 3 times that. I think even the Cycle 350 in the similar grade would surpass that kind of price. Granted I think the realized price was low for the Duffy but many of the prices do not reflect the back rankings.

From the backs I have been able to cover, my rankings by value from 12. Pied 42 to 24 Cycle 350:

12 Hindu - Brown (14)
13 Piedmont 350-460 Factory No.42 (12)
14 Cycle 460 (17)
15 American Beauty 460 (13)
16 American Beauty 350 (No Frame) (15)
17 Sovereign 460 (16)
18 Cycle 350 (24)
19 American Beauty 350 (Frame) (21)
20 El Principe De Gales (20)
21 Tolstoi (18)
22 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory No.25 ( I think this is lower because it takes an effort to figure the back out) (19)
23 Sovereign 350 (Apple Green) (22)
24 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory No.42 ( I think this is lower because it takes an effort to figure the back out) (23)

Lee

Blitzu
03-04-2012, 08:37 PM
I think the problem with using eBay as a source is skewed by the lack of knowledge. I feel like barfing every time I see the word "rare" listed on a sweet caporal, Tolstoi, or even cycle 350 back. It seems like anything non pied/SC is thought of as rare and the less knowledgeable consumers are (no pun) buying into it.

Rare needs to be left for Uzits, blanks, drums, etc. "Tough" is the appropriate designation for anything under red Hindu IMHO. If the markets reflected that I think the prices would be different. There also goes into consideration those that try to buy the whole market on one back, and the lack of those cards readily available at that given time will raise prices well beyond what they should be just because of a temporary shortage.

z28jd
03-04-2012, 09:06 PM
The prices likely reflect what is being collected the most at that moment and possibly the depth of the pockets of those collecting them. Two collectors with money and lack of patience going for the exact same cards can skew the results

itjclarke
03-04-2012, 09:28 PM
A prime example was a Duffy SGC 30 Sovereign 460 that finished at a little over $100, that card in same grade in a Cycle 460 would go for at least 3 times that. I think even the Cycle 350 in the similar grade would surpass that kind of price. Lee


This Duffy ended tonight on eBay and seemed to be a little more in line with 1 or 2 previous Sov460 I'd seen sell. I actually ended up with the $97 Duffy from Sterling, and was happy with the price.. I'd have been willing to go at least $20-$30 higher.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=130655550265&nma=true&rt=nc&si=4%252FC59i%252BszPqVfzGOp72mPvOrcmM%253D&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

I was also surprised by this Sov460 Mathewson eBay result. The Sov460 back was a little under the radar in the listing, so much so I'd actually forgotten why I was watching it until after it ended.. but $449 for a clean Sov460 and a throw in '33 Goudey HOFer to boot seemed a little low to me.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120867443187?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

freakhappy
03-04-2012, 10:01 PM
I think the problem with using eBay as a source is skewed by the lack of knowledge. I feel like barfing every time I see the word "rare" listed on a sweet caporal, Tolstoi, or even cycle 350 back. It seems like anything non pied/SC is thought of as rare and the less knowledgeable consumers are (no pun) buying into it.

Rare needs to be left for Uzits, blanks, drums, etc. "Tough" is the appropriate designation for anything under red Hindu IMHO. If the markets reflected that I think the prices would be different. There also goes into consideration those that try to buy the whole market on one back, and the lack of those cards readily available at that given time will raise prices well beyond what they should be just because of a temporary shortage.

Blitz,

I think you hit it head on. People's lack of knowledge is raising the price of some of these backs sky high! People really like different backs when it comes to the T206's, but what I think we are running into are the fact that people really like backs like American Beauty 350 w/frame and Cycle 350 and kind of make them very much in demand just because they are popular, not necessarily because they are rare. At any given time you can find these backs on Ebay (not like common backs), so why are they so rare? I can understand some players with these backs being somewhat rare, but you have to know your stuff for that to be true, not just because of the back itself. I think the design itself makes some of these cards rise above the normal/general price that they usually sell for also.

mrvster
03-05-2012, 06:11 AM
You all hit the nail on the head....these rarities will shift from positions occasionally when more is known about each back, beleve it or not even after over 100 years we are still learing something new everyday about the set...:D....collectors skew raritity when chasing in correlation to value, but we have a general idea of the "rarities"....

Lee, "rarities" are thrown around alot....i like anything red hindy and up classified as rarity, and include the bb.....:D

CMIZ5290
03-05-2012, 01:51 PM
I still believe the sovereign 460 backs are greatly blown out of proportion. I think cycle 460's are definitely tougher. I have had many of each, and the cycle 460's have definitely brought a higher premium than the sov. 460's.....

frankbmd
03-05-2012, 01:59 PM
My Broadleaf 350 common Abbott (BVG 3.5) was purchased in 2007 for about $200. Just noticed that a PSA 1 Clymer BL 350 sold on Ebay for over $400. I assume Broadleafs are rarer than any on the 12-24 list at the beginning of this post. Am I now wealthy?

CMIZ5290
03-05-2012, 02:09 PM
Lee- you are absolutely right. The rating of cycle 460s makes no sense at all in terms of what prices they sell for....

atx840
03-05-2012, 02:13 PM
I find it interesting that the AB460s are ranked that high. There must be a significant jump from the AB to the P42 in scarcity. I also think the blank backs are under rated.

The last three ABs I've picked up were all under $150 and relatively easy to find, the P42 was under $300 for a SGC 40, where a blank is $1200-2k and I've seen only 6-8 in the last year come up.

CMIZ5290
03-05-2012, 02:16 PM
Chris- you are right on about ab460's, another back way overrated imo......

danmckee
03-05-2012, 03:01 PM
I don't see a lot of difference between Tolstoi and Hindu. Hindu's were not tough in the past until a few hard hitting collectors started hammering them.

Blitzu
03-06-2012, 06:44 AM
I don't see a lot of difference between Tolstoi and Hindu. Hindu's were not tough in the past until a few hard hitting collectors started hammering them.

I concur. The hype and value given to Hindu browns is excessive. I've seen nearly 5 Hindus for every AB 460.

E93
03-06-2012, 12:08 PM
I think all the brands/series/etc. from ranks #12-18 or so are really close. One can't draw accurate, far-reaching conclusions based on data from the past year or two years imho. Current prices do not necessarily reflect relative scarcity. It only takes a few people battling it our for something at the same time to skew the numbers on the short term.

Just looking at the first two spots on your list, I would say that Piedmont factory 42 is much tougher than Hindu. When I decided to go for all 39 backs instead of just the 16 brands last year I went through my raw set accumulated over the past 31 years. Actually it was about 600 T206s, a bit more than one set. Out of 600 I had NO Piedmont fact. 42s, but I had probably 8 or 9 Hindus. These cards were all accumulated when nobody even knew or talked about factory 42 being tough. Just one person's experience.
JimB

JohnP0621
03-06-2012, 12:19 PM
Anyone have A REASONABLY PRICED T206 AB 460 common in a PSA 3 or 4 that they would like to sell. I would like to add one of these backs to my collection without paying a small ransom.

please pm if available.

Thanks
John P

Sterling Sports Auctions
03-06-2012, 01:30 PM
The list I gave was how I have perceived the current prices to the toughness ranking. As far as Dan's comment, I think 3 backs are a question mark to there toughness because no one really seemed to be collecting them specifically are Tolstoi, Old Mill and EPDG. I think this has kept the hype down on these backs. I know one person (Ray?) Had accumulated quite a few EPDGs but has sadly sold them off.

As far as Pied 42s I think the toughness has always out weighed the dollar value, they are just starting to get some respect. The other back I feel that falls into that category is the SC 460 25's, but as noted it takes some effort to figure out which 460s have the factory designation.

Lee

mintacular
03-06-2012, 09:23 PM
I don't think Tolstoi's (which look like Piedmonts) or EPDGs should be in the same breath of Brown Hindus...And def. not Old Mills. Brown Hindu's have an ornate style and might also benefit from the rare existence of the Red Hindu