My autograph question for those board experts -- lamination

[drc]

Why are laminated autographs (where the signatures are clear and clean) worth so little? Or, at least, worth so little to you? I never got why their they'd be worth so little.

[perezfan]

Any collectible in an altered state is normally worth less. Most collectors want their items to be original and as issued. To address your specific concern, I would imagine that the fact that shellac/varnish is prone to peeling and darkening over time would be the main concern. I know this would keep me away, as a potential buyer.

[drc]

I was half guessing future deterioration might be a reason.

[David Atkatz]

"Laminating" is sealing between two sheets of plastic, each of which adhere (permanently) to the paper. No shellac or varnish. The procedure has not been popular for some time, and so almost all laminated items are fairly old. One problem, of course, is the yellowing of the plastic. In theory, laminated items are not much different than shellac balls--the handwriting has been permanently sealed under a clear coating. In one case the coat goes on as a liquid, in the other as a solid.

Here is an (unfortunately) laminated item in my collection, the front of a cover signed and addressed by Walter Johnson at the first Hall of Fame induction:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/datkatz/walterjohnson.jpg

All-in-all, it's not too bad.

(Next thing I know, this very same Johnson signature will be appearing on repro baseballs.)

[thecatspajamas]

I think that, coupled with the irreversible nature of lamination. Collectors don't like to be locked into previous owners' storage/display preferences. Photos are removed from or placed in frames, matting colors changed, items are broken out of or placed into slabs, taken out of toploaders and placed in sleeves, etc. Even if the laminate itself is in good condition and crystal clear, it's a preservation/display choice made by a previous owner that can't be altered (at least, not without professional restoration, which comes at great expense).

Also, I'm wondering if the laminate affects the ability to authenticate a signature, the same way as being in a plastic sleeve or framed under glass would? I'll leave that to others more knowledgable than I to touch on.

[David Atkatz]

I don't believe lamination can ever be undone.

[thecatspajamas]

David,
I was thinking it had been commented in a previous thread that certain high-end professional restoration experts could, with some difficulty, un-laminate something. I could very well be wrong though.

[David Atkatz]

I could be the one who's wrong--I'm no expert on restoration.

[drc]

If it can be done, I'm sure it would be expensive.

Like the Walter Johnson. If it's worth only $3 now, I'll buy it.

[BrandonG]

It depends on what type of laminate was used. There are some laminates that are heat activated and some cool activated. The cool activated laminates are sticky and will adhere to anything that it touches and would be impossible to remove. Some heat activated laminate only sticks to the opposite laminate itself, so in other words the paper is sandwiched between the plastic and sealed in but not necessarily stuck to the plastic laminate, it could be removed if the "sealed" area was cut to expose an opening which could be pulled open to remove the contents. But on something like Richards postcard, there's no way I'd chance it.

[David Atkatz]

Laminate always adheres to the paper. The second method you mention is not lamination, but encapsulation. It is an archival method of preservation and storage (as long as the material is mylar), and is completely reversible.

[D. Bergin]

There is one seller on Ebay who sells laminated vintage Newspaper pages, and I've bought several over the years. I think they're great and they've shown no signs of deterioration, as of yet.

[BrandonG]

Laminate always adheres to the paper. The second method you mention is not lamination, but encapsulation. It is an archival method of preservation and storage (as long as the material is mylar), and is completely reversible.

I have laminated documents myself using a heat activated laminate, and the same exact machine FedEx Office uses and have been able to separate the two sealed pieces from the paper, it doesn't adhere permanently to the paper in all cases. It wasn't "encapsulating" it, I laminated it.

[David Atkatz]

Sorry. If it don't stick to the paper, it ain't lamination.

[Exhibitman]

I had a printer heat laminate all of the autographs I got on loose paper when I was a kid. I wanted to preserve them but be able to handle them and show them off too. I don't see it as a big deal and if there is a signature of unquestionable authenticity that I want that 'the market' wants to mark way down for laminating, great, I'm there.

Johnny Carson:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/dropins/carson.jpg

Ray Bolger:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/dropins/Bolger.jpg

Cheech and Chong:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/dropins/cheech.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/dropins/Chong.jpg

Gene Hackman:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/dropins/Hackman.jpg

Ricardo Montalban:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/dropins/websize/Montalban.jpg