New Forensic Autograph Authentication Company

[thetruthisoutthere]

New "Forensic Autograph Authentic Company" is founded!!!!!!!!!!

http://gfaauthenticated.com/

[novakjr]

Just checked their team....Damn. I've got some balls I'd like one of their examiners to check out..

[thetruthisoutthere]

Well, well, well, Stephen Rocchi came out of retirement.

[Ease]

Just checked their team....Damn. I've got some balls I'd like one of their examiners to check out..

LOL, oh that's funny!

[HRBAKER]

This may be a good hobby for a couple of people with degrees in criminology to get into. No shortage of material here.

Me, I'm seriously thinking of becoming an "at risk youth."

[Mr. Zipper]

Just checked their team....Damn. I've got some balls I'd like one of their examiners to check out..
Lol

I know what you mean. :-)

[RichardSimon]

She is not an examiner, she is a founder of the company along with Steve Rocchi.
Too bad :)

[novakjr]

She is not an examiner, she is a founder of the company along with Steve Rocchi.
Too bad :)

Damn. You got me there... If only I could be an "at-risk youth", maybe she could help me "become compassionate"? Is that better?:D

[Scott Garner]

Just checked their team....Damn. I've got some balls I'd like one of their examiners to check out..

Unbelievable!! Now THATS funny!!! :p

[thetruthisoutthere]

I found the following on the FAQ section of their website:

How can third party authentication companies authenticate so many different autographs?

To properly authenticate a signature you must have numerous exemplars to do side by side comparisons. That is why at GFA we only authenticate a limited number of autographs and have experts specialized in these signatures.

I guess one of the forensic people over at GFA specializes in the signatures of Nana Visitor & Avery Brooks. The below Avery Brooks/Nana Visitor signed photo is presently on a auction site that I will not name.

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[GrayGhost]

I don't want to sound stupid here, or w/e, but why n ot give this group a chance?

[Mr. Zipper]

I found the following on the FAQ section of their website:

How can third party authentication companies authenticate so many different autographs?

To properly authenticate a signature you must have numerous exemplars to do side by side comparisons. That is why at GFA we only authenticate a limited number of autographs and have experts specialized in these signatures.

I guess one of the forensic people over at GFA specializes in the signatures of Nana Visitor & Avery Brooks. The below Avery Brooks/Nana Visitor signed photo is presently on a auction site that I will not name.

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55041

Are you implying this is a case of SSDFE?

[HRBAKER]

I see that their COA "guarantees" that the signature is genuine.
Wonder what that means if it isn't?

[novakjr]

I don't want to sound stupid here, or w/e, but why n ot give this group a chance?
a bunch of ex-cops with the founder of Global and a hot chick? With over 100 years experience, just like stated at Global..

Also check out their guarantee.

"In the event the purchaser of a GFA authenticated signature believes that the signature is not genuine with respect to GFA standards and procedures, he/she may submit the signature through the GFA “Guarantee Resubmission” service and GFA will submit the signature to an authorized 3rd party forensic authenticator for additional examination"

Why does it have to be re-subbed to them, so that they can submit it to their own choice of 3rd party forensic examiner? Who exactly will this 3rd party be? Perhaps Global?

[novakjr]

I see that their COA "guarantees" that the signature is genuine.
Wonder what that means if it isn't?

supposedly, they give you your purchase money back, or replace with an authentic item...However, see the process in order to claim the guarantee that I just posted..

[Mr. Zipper]

I see that their COA "guarantees" that the signature is genuine.
Wonder what that means if it isn't?

The FAQS indicate they send the questioned item to a third party FDE for determination. If found bad, they refund price or replace with similar item.

[drc]

I didn't get out the subtle nuances of the joke, until I checked out the team.

[Scott Garner]

i didn't get out the subtle nuances of the joke, until i checked out the team.

;)

[J.McMurry]

Jackie looks to be about 28 at most,but says she's been collecting sports for 30 years. Nice trick.

[RichardSimon]

a bunch of ex-cops with the founder of Global and a hot chick? With over 100 years experience, just like stated at Global..

Also check out their guarantee.

"In the event the purchaser of a GFA authenticated signature believes that the signature is not genuine with respect to GFA standards and procedures, he/she may submit the signature through the GFA “Guarantee Resubmission” service and GFA will submit the signature to an authorized 3rd party forensic authenticator for additional examination"

Why does it have to be re-subbed to them, so that they can submit it to their own choice of 3rd party forensic examiner? Who exactly will this 3rd party be? Perhaps Global?

Global is not a forensic examiner. Neither is PSA or JSA or Ted Taylor. Neither am I.
We know who is.
I guess we will have to wait and find out who is their authorized 3rd party forensic authenticator.

[RichardSimon]

Their team page lists the founders, the examiners and the investigators(?).
What are the investigators for?
And another point, in the real world, forensic examination implies hours of work to examine one document or signature. It also implies much higher rates when compared to what the TPA's charge if a true forensic examination is offered.

[Mr. Zipper]

Their team page lists the founders, the examiners and the investigators(?).
What are the investigators for?
And another point, in the real world, forensic examination implies hours of work to examine one document or signature. It also implies much higher rates when compared to what the TPA's charge if a true forensic examination is offered.

The whole notion of a "forensic exam" and "forensic examiners" adding value for modern era collectibles is absurd. If the medium (ball, photostock, etc) is "of the era" and the signing implement is "of the era," what else is there to "forensically" examine? How are they "forensically examining" a Pete Rose signature in blue Sharpie on a Fuji Crystal Archive photo?

After that it is pure signature analysis, and I trust experienced collectors and dealers (and yes, PSA and JSA :p ) to be more in tune with that than some forensic examiner puffing their credentials with meaningless certificates.

[mschwade]

So from the Services page, am I to assume that to authenticate a Joe Dugan index card it will cost me the same as a Babe Ruth index card?

[RichardSimon]

So from the Services page, am I to assume that to authenticate a Joe Dugan index card it will cost me the same as a Babe Ruth index card?

Based on the services page, assume that is true.

[mschwade]

Based on the services page, assume that is true.

The problem I have with that is this company is going to need to authenticate a lot of pieces at that rate to stay afloat.

[novakjr]

Jackie looks to be about 28 at most,but says she's been collecting sports for 30 years. Nice trick.

Do you mean her implants look to be about 28? She's easily in her 40's.

[HRBAKER]

So from the Services page, am I to assume that to authenticate a Joe Dugan index card it will cost me the same as a Babe Ruth index card?

Why shouldn't it?
Now with a "guarantee" (if it has any teeth) then I can see charging a different price bc the risk assumed is greater financially for an error but with the other companies I can't see why they should charge more for esentially the same service.

[Leon]

She is not an examiner, she is a founder of the company along with Steve Rocchi.
Too bad :)

I will bet she is an examiner alright. It might have nothing to do with autographs but she examines!! I bet she has examined a many a base-ball.

[mschwade]

Why shouldn't it?
Now with a "guarantee" (if it has any teeth) then I can see charging a different price bc the risk assumed is greater financially for an error but with the other companies I can't see why they should charge more for esentially the same service.

What equates to a thorough examination? How much time and effort will be spent in making sure an item is authentic? If they spend just two hours on a single signed flat, they're hourly wage just went down to $5.

[RichardSimon]

I will bet she is an examiner alright. It might have nothing to do with autographs but she examines!! I bet she has examined a many a ball.

Leon - tsk,tsk :D:D.
Terrible thing to say about such a fine looking lady :D:D.
And I do think she looks about 40ish,, but not bad for 40ish,,;)
Good to have a woman in the business though, especially one who looks like that ;).

[Scott Garner]

Do you mean her implants look to be about 28? She's easily in her 40's.

Like! Absolutely true!!

[Big Six]

Does anyone think she's found Net54 yet?

If she has, do you think she's found this thread yet?

If she has, do you think she had the courage to read each post?

If she has read each post, do you think she has a sense of humor?

If she does have a sense of humor, that's great. But if she doesn't have a sense of humor, does anyone think she knows any martial arts?

Carry on...

[RichardSimon]

Does anyone think she's found Net54 yet?

If she has, do you think she's found this thread yet?

If she has, do you think she had the courage to read each post?

If she has read each post, do you think she has a sense of humor?

If she does have a sense of humor, that's great. But if she doesn't have a sense of humor, does anyone think she knows any martial arts?

Carry on...

1-yes
2-yes
3-yes
4-hope so
5-nah, too busy at the hairdresser to ever have learned martial arts,,, ouch did I just say that? :D:D

[Leon]

Leon - tsk,tsk :D:D.
Terrible thing to say about such a fine looking lady :D:D.
And I do think she looks about 40ish,, but not bad for 40ish,,;)
Good to have a woman in the business though, especially one who looks like that.

Richard- I was most certainly talking about baseballs. :eek:

[RichardSimon]

Richard- I was most certainly talking about baseballs. :eek:


Glad you clarified that, thanks :D.

[RichardSimon]

Geez, what a randy bunch of guys we are,,
Note: I did say we are, not you are ;).
But if their certs start showing up on CC, then the tone changes.

[Mr. Zipper]

In all seriousness, it's one thing to comment on the woman's obvious good looks. However, let's not get too nasty... she is someone's wife, mother, daughter...

:)

[novakjr]

Does anyone think she's found Net54 yet?

If she has, do you think she's found this thread yet?

If she has, do you think she had the courage to read each post?

If she has read each post, do you think she has a sense of humor?

If she does have a sense of humor, that's great. But if she doesn't have a sense of humor, does anyone think she knows any martial arts?

Carry on...

Hopefully
Hopefully
Hopefully
Hopefully
Hopefully NOT

Honestly, when I originally posted, it was with the anticipation that it would be seen. Just planting seeds;)

[novakjr]

Richard- I was most certainly talking about baseballs. :eek:

Yes! Yes! So was I;)

[barrysloate]

A couple of posts have already touched on what I was thinking as soon as I saw this: why is it that every authenticator has the word "forensic" somewhere in his title or company name? Is that the buzzword that adds the needed credibility to the enterprise? I've got to be honest here, I don't even know what the word "forensic" means. Is the root "foreskin", or something to that effect?

[RichardSimon]

A couple of posts have already touched on what I was thinking as soon as I saw this: why is it that every authenticator has the word "forensic" somewhere in his title or company name? Is that the buzzword that adds the needed credibility to the enterprise? I've got to be honest here, I don't even know what the word "forensic" means. Is the root "foreskin", or something to that effect?

I wouldn't touch that foreskin comment with a 10 ft pole :D.

[barrysloate]

Did you know that forensic is an anagram of forescin? That's close enough for me.:)

[J.McMurry]

Fortyish? really?

I've been outta circulation for too long. Oh well, if she ever does read this thread, I've made a friend for life.:D

[sylbry]

Perhaps this company is trying to capitalize off of Grey Flannel's name recognition.

Grey Flannel Auctions = GFA = Guaranteed Forensic Authenticators

[RichardSimon]

Fortyish? really?

I've been outta circulation for too long. Oh well, if she ever does read this thread, I've made a friend for life.:D

I based the 40ish age on the bio of her on their website. She has been collectiong for over 30 years so,,,,,
Some people just have good genes and appear to be much younger than they really are, she seems to be one of those people.

[novakjr]

Perhaps this company is trying to capitalize off of Grey Flannel's name recognition.

Grey Flannel Auctions = GFA = Guaranteed Forensic Authenticators

Just wait 'til they gut sued by the other GFA "Graph factory Authentics"
http://myworld.ebay.com/graphfactoryauthentics/?_trksid=p4340.l2559

[novakjr]

I based the 40ish age on the bio of her on their website. She has been collectiong for over 30 years so,,,,,
Some people just have good genes and appear to be much younger than they really are, she seems to be one of those people.

Agreed. Without a doubt, she is the definition of Cougar..

[mr2686]

Agreed. Without a doubt, she is the definition of Cougar..


Please, no jokes about petting the kitty! :D

[RichardSimon]

Please, no jokes about petting the kitty! :D

This board has gone from a PG rating to an NC-17 very quickly :D.

[drc]

Per grayghost's much earlier post, I have no pre-conception or opinion of the company.

It is interesting that just days ago people were bashing PSA/DNA and JSA for not guarantee their opinions, yet here is a company that say it will guarantee things and people are complaining about that too.

Let's not just be a board of complainers.

[mschwade]

Per grayghost's much earlier post, I have no pre-conception or opinion of the company.

It is interesting that just days ago people were bashing PSA/DNA and JSA for not guarantee their opinions, yet here is a company that say it will guarantee things and people are complaining about that too.

Let's not just be a board of complainers.

I am in 100% agreement... They have everything we've been complaining about... a guarantee that puts them somewhat on the hook (depending on their 3rd party examiner) and the same auth fees regardless of the signature. I am just anxious to see how thorough their exams are for the comparably low rates. I think the biggest way for them to survive is to do their own signings for athletes that they witness and authenticate and turn around and sell-- and I think I read that is what they are doing. No exams needed that way and they can still turn profits.

[thetruthisoutthere]

From the GFA website:

To properly authenticate a signature you must have numerous exemplars to do side by side comparisons. That is why at GFA we only authenticate a limited number of autographs and have experts specialized in these signatures.

I guess they have a forensic expert who specializes in Colm Meaney's autograph.

I wonder if they have someone who specializes in the signature of Phil Linz?

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[thecatspajamas]

Per grayghost's much earlier post, I have no pre-conception or opinion of the company.

It is interesting that just days ago people were bashing PSA/DNA and JSA for not guarantee their opinions, yet here is a company that say it will guarantee things and people are complaining about that too.

Let's not just be a board of complainers.

I think it's the whole re-submission process for bad authentications that has people concerned/scratching their heads. Seeing a list of their "authorized 3rd party forensic authenticator"(s) would probably go a long way to easing (or confirming) people's concerns. Since I don't see any such list on their website, that may be up in the air until someone has first-hand experience and can relate it here on the board.

To my mind, their whole "guarantee" hinges on that one factor. If they use a reputable 3rd party authenticator for disputed certs and actually follow through on their guarantee, then they darn sure better not make any high-profile mistakes as it would only take 1 bad Ruth settlement to wipe out a whole pile of those $10 authentications. (Which, incidentally, is the kind of hard-line self-imposed regulation/penalty system many have been wishing for from other companies).

If, however, their authorized 3rd party authenticator is Chris M, well, that's a loophole big enough to drive a truckload of bad certs through...

[drc]

The COA of company that does well-documented in person signings can get a strong reputation.

[D. Bergin]

From the GFA website:

To properly authenticate a signature you must have numerous exemplars to do side by side comparisons. That is why at GFA we only authenticate a limited number of autographs and have experts specialized in these signatures.

I guess they have a forensic expert who specializes in Colm Meaney's autograph.

I wonder if they have someone who specializes in the signature of Phil Linz?

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Well, is it his autograph or not? It very well could be an in person and it certainly can't be a hard autograph to find exemplars on.

I just hope they have actual "handwriting analysis" experts, and not simply "forensic" experts.

[novakjr]

Chris. The COA doesn't state it, but I have a good feeling that those are probably from in-person signings.. Either that, or they are bunch of Trekkies who originally wanted to call the company "Galactic Ferengal Alliance".

[mschwade]

The COA of company that does well-documented in person signings can get a strong reputation.

Tri-star is the first one that comes to mind.

[Mr. Zipper]

Let's not just be a board of complainers.

Isn't that what the Internet is for? :confused:

:D

[RichardSimon]

I think it's the whole re-submission process for bad authentications that has people concerned/scratching their heads. Seeing a list of their "authorized 3rd party forensic authenticator"(s) would probably go a long way to easing (or confirming) people's concerns. Since I don't see any such list on their website, that may be up in the air until someone has first-hand experience and can relate it here on the board.

To my mind, their whole "guarantee" hinges on that one factor. If they use a reputable 3rd party authenticator for disputed certs and actually follow through on their guarantee, then they darn sure better not make any high-profile mistakes as it would only take 1 bad Ruth settlement to wipe out a whole pile of those $10 authentications. (Which, incidentally, is the kind of hard-line self-imposed regulation/penalty system many have been wishing for from other companies).

If, however, their authorized 3rd party authenticator is Chris M, well, that's a loophole big enough to drive a truckload of bad certs through...
+1
Their claim is that a forensic authenticator will reexamine the item.
The whole thing then comes down to who will that be.
One simple statement of fact, who is their forensic/alternate?
Right now the forensic field, in the autograph hobby, is very limited.
And if they submit the item to a forensic, where do the exemplars come from? What type of forensic exam does it then get?
An elaborate real forensic exam, or a $10-$30 exam?
I look forward to seeing their work, let us hope they do a good job.

[mschwade]

FYI, I wrote an email today to Mr. Rocchi voicing my concerns and suggestions for GFA and tried to send the email to the email address listed for him and also the generic info email address that was listed, and both emails bounced as an unknown email address. I eventually used the contact form on the Contact Us page and cut and pasted my email into it, but I am still not sure if it will ever reach them.

Just an FYI to anyone else that thought about writing them.

Thanks,
Matt

[thekingofclout]

Do you mean her implants look to be about 28? She's easily in her 40's.

like

[Scott Garner]

A couple of posts have already touched on what I was thinking as soon as I saw this: why is it that every authenticator has the word "forensic" somewhere in his title or company name? Is that the buzzword that adds the needed credibility to the enterprise? I've got to be honest here, I don't even know what the word "forensic" means. Is the root "foreskin", or something to that effect?

Moral ass has paved the way to this dubious distinction.... :(

[drc]

I think the word forensic is a word the average person on the street understands, even if he can't literally define. Kind of like authentic. Both words have a ring to them. We know what they mean even if we don't know what the mean.

A common meaning is forensic scientist-- in any area, medicine to psychology-- is someone trained and certified to provide evidence in a court of a law. So supposedly, a forensic expert in autographs is certified by whatever forensic body and is able to testify in court.

There are looser definitions.

Actually, to be come certified as a forensic autograph expert by the governing bodies, you have to do a lot of stuff. You need at least a BS, often take addition education in the area, pass tests and I think intern with an other certified expert for two years. So, whatever you think of the status, it isn't like sending in two box tops and $5.

However, if you aren't certified by any forensic board but clearly are an expert/knowledgeable in your field-- a Ph.d. microbiology professor asked by a lawyer to testify in a suit about hospital cleanliness--, you may be allowed to testify in court as an expert. Who's allowed to be an expert witness in a case is up to the judge, and the certification may not be deemed necessary for Professor Smith. In the eyes of a judge, the Ph.d. in microbiology may be worth a lot more than some forensic board certificate.

One thing is a judge may be a learned and sharp guy, but he has a J.D. and hasn't studied in all the forensic areas. He's not an MD or biochemist or a civil engineer. Thus, he'll look at tangible outside indications that person is qualified to testify-- Ph.d., certified by a forensic, board, has been okayed as expert witness in other cases, etc. In the topic of this thread, the judge may have an MENSA IQ, a law degree from Yale and on his free time wrote a history of New Haven, but chances are he's not an avid autograph collector and knows the heart the loops in Mickey Mantle's signature. In fact, you may be relieved the judge in your civil suit isn't the type who places bids on eBay autographs during his lunch break and posts comments on an autograph board.

It should be noted that some judges are wary of those so-called those certified forensic autograph experts, and don't allow them to testify as experts. The judges consider their opinions unreliable and/or scientifically questionable. They likely experienced where expert opinions were later clearly demonstrated to be errors, too many dueling opinions, and also likely grew to question the whole methodology/logic used by experts. So, in cases, a judge may share opinion with many members of this board about the folks.

Interestingly, I saw Judge Judy where the person brought in a forensic document expert to testify about writing on a document and Judge Judy said she thought the expert was wrong. He even showed her how he analyzed the writing on the document, and she didn't buy it.

But, as I said, in a company title it's just a word that people seem to understand, as they've watched those law and crime shows.

I believe that Texas A & M has a new masters program in forensic document examination. As Texas A & M is a good science and research school, the masters degree may mean something.

[mark evans]

In all seriousness, it's one thing to comment on the woman's obvious good looks. However, let's not get too nasty... she is someone's wife, mother, daughter...

:)

I agree. Crude comments about the lady may be one of the reasons the Board does not seem to have female members.

[Ease]

I agree. Crude comments about the lady may be one of the reasons the Board does not seem to have female members.

With all due respect, I don't think the crude comments are driving the ladies off. Its more likely the sports cards and memorabilia that do that... :)

[carrigansghost]

Well said Eric.

Rawn

[Leon]

With all due respect, I don't think the crude comments are driving the ladies off. Its more likely the sports cards and memorabilia that do that... :)

+1 ...our comments haven't run any women off, guaranteed. There would have to be some here already, which there aren't. WE have had a few women on the board before, and they were usually pretty good sports about stuff. But ask yourself this, how many times in the last 2 yrs have I bought vintage memorabilia or pre-war cards from a woman that was running the business? (there are a few but the percentage is less than 1% from what I have seen)

[RichardSimon]

There are a number of well respected women in the autograph field but not in the sports autograph field.

[RichardSimon]

I did a Google search for the forensic document examiner that is listed on the team page of GFA.

This is what I got:

"Your search - John Goraczyk forensic document examiner - did not match any documents."

A search for the other examiner Roger Fenton showed a number of listings for a man who was a photographer in the Crimean War. But no listing for the man listed on the GFA site, unless I missed it somehow.

[sycks22]

My favorite part of the website was listing that one guy testified in 127 court cases as a cop. I guess that helps him authenticate huge names like Willie Stargell.

[thecatspajamas]

From their website, Service Level III Extras:

"Ink analysis, Document analysis (when possible), Chain of custody of the item, background of when the item was signed (if possible). It will also include a Letter of Authenticity, describing the item, the signature, what type of ink was used, a biography of the signer, a photograph, and GFA’s full guarantee of authenticity"

I'd be curious to know what their "chain of custody" investigation entails? Is that just asking the submitter where they got it and making phone calls back up the line? Or does it only go as far as a line on the submission form of "where did you get this?" How far back do they go with that? May be another one of those things that experience will show, but it's got me curious.

[drc]

If you can show you got it from a good dealer or auction house that is relevant info.

[RichardSimon]

From their website, Service Level III Extras:

"Ink analysis, Document analysis (when possible), Chain of custody of the item, background of when the item was signed (if possible). It will also include a Letter of Authenticity, describing the item, the signature, what type of ink was used, a biography of the signer, a photograph, and GFA’s full guarantee of authenticity"

I'd be curious to know what their "chain of custody" investigation entails? Is that just asking the submitter where they got it and making phone calls back up the line? Or does it only go as far as a line on the submission form of "where did you get this?" How far back do they go with that? May be another one of those things that experience will show, but it's got me curious.

All this for $30??
Something is very different with this company but I cannot put my finger on it yet.
Forensic examiners that you cannot find on Google, investigators? for what purpose?, no ability to communicate with them, COA's showing up on a website with no ability to discern the COA number or no place to check it even if you could see the number.

[thetruthisoutthere]

All this for $30??
Something is very different with this company but I cannot put my finger on it yet.
Forensic examiners that you cannot find on Google, investigators? for what purpose?, no ability to communicate with them, COA's showing up on a website with no ability to discern the COA number or no place to check it even if you could see the number.

Another "Forensic" authentication company. You gotta be kidding me!!!

When I first found them I was like "Holy crap!!!" Then I tried to contact them via their website, but to no avail. Then I tried to print out a "submission" form, but there's no option for that.

But yet their "authenticated" items show up on a particular auction site with blurry photographs ans serial numbers on the COAs that read "GFAA-####."

Wow!!!

[travrosty]

The verbiage doesn't matter, whether they say forensics or not, it's whether or not they are good at authenticating autographs. The bar is already set pretty low so they can't do much worse than what is already out there.

J. Spence touts his forensics credentials (mail order correspondence course), so either forensics is bad for spence and everyone, or is a credit to jsa and everyone, but not selective good for one guy and bad for another.

I see Spence didn't have flattering things to say about forensics when he participated in an autograph authentiction forum, but then he likes to say he has forensic credentials himself, so which is it? Even PSA's self-describing paragraphs say that they are trained in and use forensics too. So shame on them too I guess.

It's the result of their work that matters, we haven't seen enough of GFA work to make a determination. I couldn't endorse or not endorse them based on the work I have seen. To be fair we would have to see a quantity of their work over a good period of time.

[RichardSimon]

It's the result of their work that matters, we haven't seen enough of GFA work to make a determination.

We are watching for that.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Travis writes "The verbiage doesn't matter, whether they say forensics or not, it's whether or not they are good at authenticating autographs. The bar is already set pretty low so they can't do much worse than what is already out there."

The below was certed by Todd Mueller and sold on his website. A pitiful Derek Jeter forgery. When confronted about certing the below Jeter, Mr. Mueller replies "That was obtained in person by Danny Tuliebitz. His cousin is the New York Yankee's travelling secretary." Really?

So, Travis, when you write "The bar is already set pretty low so they can't do much worse than what is already out there." you are absolutely correct. This is a great example of "the bar is already set pretty low."

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[travrosty]

you cant impugn a whole company like gfa if you havent seen quantity of their work, just becuase forensics are in the title.

The low bar is by independent third party authenticators, who offer to cert your item that you send in for money, which is the what GFA is competing against. I haven't seen your example that fits into that category.

[Karl Mattson]

All this for $30??
Something is very different with this company but I cannot put my finger on it yet.
Forensic examiners that you cannot find on Google, investigators? for what purpose?, no ability to communicate with them, COA's showing up on a website with no ability to discern the COA number or no place to check it even if you could see the number.


I think they just misspelled the name on the web site - try again using John Gorajczyk.

[thetruthisoutthere]

you cant impugn a whole company like gfa if you havent seen quantity of their work, just becuase forensics are in the title.

The low bar is by independent third party authenticators, who offer to cert your item that you send in for money. I haven't seen your example that fits into that category.

I include ANYONE who calls themselves an authenticator. That includes Mueller. He doesn't get a free pass.

[novakjr]

I think they just misspelled the name on the web site - try again using John Gorajczyk.

Great. They can't even spell their own names, and we're supposed to expect them to correctly authenticate an autograph...

[thecatspajamas]

Great. They can't even spell their own names, and we're supposed to expect them to correctly authenticate an autograph...

Pretty sure the website programmers who put the site together are not the same folks doing the authentication. As someone with a weird last name, I can relate to folks misspelling it more often than not. :D

[novakjr]

Pretty sure the website programmers who put the site together are not the same folks doing the authentication. As someone with a weird last name, I can relate to folks misspelling it more often than not. :D
I was just joking. But yes, I can relate to the misspellings and mispronunciations as well..

[travrosty]

Well, he's a dealer that backs up his own items. That would make any dealer who issues their own coa an authenticator. Every booth at the national has an authenticator behind the desk. There are 600 authenticators at the national.

Here's my definition: An authenticator is an authenticator.


i would have to see a letter of rejection from abc, or xyz on that ballplayers signature as i guess only those companies are qualified to tell people whose sigantures are real and who are not?

Our mutual friend is the only one with the expertise to call out the al ruddy/al pacino mistake on pawn stars, even though many people on the blogs said "what a wonderful job mr. wonderful did on the authentication."

so our mutual friend mr. mueller is terrible and the company who asked him to join, to which he said 'no' to many times is good. i finally got it now.

[Fuddjcal]

Travis writes "The verbiage doesn't matter, whether they say forensics or not, it's whether or not they are good at authenticating autographs. The bar is already set pretty low so they can't do much worse than what is already out there."

The below was certed by Todd Mueller and sold on his website. A pitiful Derek Jeter forgery. When confronted about certing the below Jeter, Mr. Mueller replies "That was obtained in person by Danny Tuliebitz. His cousin is the New York Yankee's travelling secretary." Really?

So, Travis, when you write "The bar is already set pretty low so they can't do much worse than what is already out there." you are absolutely correct. This is a great example of "the bar is already set pretty low."

55748

While I think Todd has a great business model, this is HIS BIGGEST PROBLEM...he won't return anything despite offering completely worthless "lifetime guarantee" and will fight tooth & nail how he is so much smarter than you citing BS "providence" or stating his COA is forged??? LOLOLOLOLOLOOLOO. :D:D:D:D:D

He is an complete idiot and anyone buying a thing from him or listening to his gibberish are complete morons. I base my opinion when the guy went on for 3 pages on that pathetic website, Autograph New Live last year how this Mantle was real. The thread has since been deleted by Steve Koschal, the festering boil on the ass of the autograph industry who runs that site of the stupid.

Yeah right Todd, and Pete Nash has a bridge to sell you. For sake of clarification, I post this FORGED MICKEY MANTLE signed photo (yet again)as Exhibit A into this boobs stupidity. This was sold on his website last April. Why don't you explain your stupidity on "this Forum" and see how far it gets you....CRICKETS CRICKETS that's what I thought. When you admit you are wrong about this photo and refund the poor sap who bought it, I'll ease up. Until then you have ZERO CREDIBILITY and all your ventures should be treated as such.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Well, he's a dealer that backs up his own items. That would make any dealer who issues their own coa an authenticator. Every booth at the national has an authenticator behind the desk. There are 600 authenticators at the national.

Here's my definition: An authenticator is an authenticator.


i would have to see a letter of rejection from abc, or xyz on that ballplayers signature as i guess only those companies are qualified to tell people whose sigantures are real and who are not?

Our mutual friend is the only one with the expertise to call out the al ruddy/al pacino mistake on pawn stars, even though many people on the blogs said "what a wonderful job mr. wonderful did on the authentication."

so our mutual friend mr. mueller is terrible and the company who asked him to join, to which he said 'no' to many times is good. i finally got it now.

First of all, Mueller is not a friend of mine.

So your friend Mueller called out the Al Ruddy/Al Pacino mistake on the Pawn Stars show. Wow, does that make him some kind of hero?

But yet I didn't hear a peep from Mueller about the Drew Max and the FDR Letter To Clergy joke. Nor did I hear Mueller call out Drew Max and that Bram Stoker mess on the Pawn Stars.

You're right, Travis, I finally got it now. It's called a double-standard. I got it.

[Fuddjcal]

First of all, Mueller is not a friend of mine.

So your friend Mueller called out the Al Ruddy/Al Pacino mistake on the Pawn Stars show. Wow, does that make him some kind of hero?

But yet I didn't hear a peep from Mueller about the Drew Max and the FDR Letter To Clergy joke. Nor did I hear Mueller call out Drew Max and that Bram Stoker mess on the Pawn Stars.

You're right, Travis, I finally got it now. It's called a double-standard. I got it.

BINGO!!!WE HAVE A WINNER. The double standards are astounding.....I give him credit for his business model, but standing behind KNOWN forgeries does not endear me to him one iota, like some who sees him as a shining knight.

I give him credit for breaking the Pawn Stars fiasco (1 of many fiascoes on that show) It just goes to show, if these guys worked together the industry would be much better off for it instead of being irreparably fractured.

[travrosty]

First of all, Mueller is not a friend of mine.

So your friend Mueller called out the Al Ruddy/Al Pacino mistake on the Pawn Stars show. Wow, does that make him some kind of hero?

But yet I didn't hear a peep from Mueller about the Drew Max and the FDR Letter To Clergy joke. Nor did I hear Mueller call out Drew Max and that Bram Stoker mess on the Pawn Stars.

You're right, Travis, I finally got it now. It's called a double-standard. I got it.



Mr. Pacino didnt exactly get called out by you either for making the biggest pawn stars blunder of all. Where were you on that one? You call out all the fakes on that show and denigrate each one by who the authenticator is except for one conspicuous instance in which your scrutiny was absent? hmmmmmm.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Mr. Pacino didnt exactly get called out by you either for making the biggest pawn stars blunder of all. Where were you on that one? You call out all the fakes on that show and denigrate each one by who the authenticator is except for one conspicuous instance in which your scrutiny was absent? hmmmmmm.

John makes one mistake on the Pawn Stars and I'm suppose to call him out? You serious, Travis? Are you also aware that John admitted to his mistake in public? John acknowledged the mistake he made.

Has Drew Max ever admitted to his numerous mistakes on Pawn Stars? Never!!!

[drc]

Forensic may just be something for the company title.

[travrosty]

John makes one mistake on the Pawn Stars and I'm suppose to call him out? You serious, Travis? Are you also aware that John admitted to his mistake in public? John acknowledged the mistake he made.

Has Drew Max ever admitted to his numerous mistakes on Pawn Stars? Never!!!



I have looked everywhere and have not seen him admit his mistake.

Please go wherever you want on the billions of pages on the web, and copy and paste once instance in which he admits the al pacino mistake. You can't do it because it's not there. I am sure you know where to look too. I will help you out though. The las vegas sun articles, the jewish magazine article, and autograph magazine live website.

[RichardSimon]

I think they just misspelled the name on the web site - try again using John Gorajczyk.

You are correct Karl , that spelling does bring up several pages about him.
Unusual in that Google usually corrects spelling errors but did not in his case.
Sorry to GFA for that, but we are still watching.

[thetruthisoutthere]

I have looked everywhere and have not seen him admit his mistake.

Please go wherever you want on the billions of pages on the web, and copy and paste once instance in which he admits the al pacino mistake. You can't do it because it's not there. I am sure you know where to look too. I will help you out though. The las vegas sun articles, the jewish magazine article, and autograph magazine live website.

Here, please read this story everyone.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/oct/06/after-snubbing-pawn-stars-charity-gets-bigger-offe/

[thetruthisoutthere]

I have looked everywhere and have not seen him admit his mistake.

Please go wherever you want on the billions of pages on the web, and copy and paste once instance in which he admits the al pacino mistake. You can't do it because it's not there. I am sure you know where to look too. I will help you out though. The las vegas sun articles, the jewish magazine article, and autograph magazine live website.

Another item that I want to add, Travis, is that the Al Ruddy signature wasn't a forgery, but a mis-identification from John. The signature was not a forgery. The signature of Al Ruddy was incorrectly identified by John as Al Pacino. That's a fact.

[travrosty]

exactly,


everyone, please read it and you wont see an admission anywhere.

the interviewer admits it, and reznikoff simply says 'everyone makes mistakes"

where is reznikoff's admission?

many people have admitted it for him, but when it comes time for his turn, he puts up a link to a jewish magazine article he penned in which a general statement of mistakes comes up but nowhere will anyone find where he says he made a mistake on the pawn stars autograph out of john's own mouth.

on autograph magazine live, the one passage where he comes closest is actually not there anymore, (available on google search though)

Now presumably the only person that could remove the passage is reznikoff himself, why was it removed? you can see he only mentions he may have made a mistake, and he needs a few days to research it, because he is on the beach. so he hasnt seen the proof yet, and wont admit to a mistake, just maybe a mistake based on what others have told him.


Here is the passage that is deleted,

Jul 24, 2011 – Yup maybe I made a mistake and it is not Pacino . Need a few days to look into it.. ..last days on the beach with my kids.


that's still not an admission as 'maybe' isn't an admission. "needs a few days to look into it" means he isn't admitting a mistake. And no one can post a passage where he admits to the pacino error. why doesn't he want people to see this passage anymore?


he let''s other say it and then makes a statement about mistakes in general. not an admission!

try again.

[thetruthisoutthere]

exactly,


everyone, please read it and you wont see an admission anywhere.

the interviewer admits it, and reznikoff simply says 'everyone makes mistakes"

where is reznikoff's admission?

many people have admitted it for him, but when it comes time for his turn, he puts up a link to a jewish magazine article he penned in which a general statement of mistakes comes up but nowhere will anyone find where he says he made a mistakes on the pawn stars autograph out of john's own mouth.

on autograph magazine live, the one passage where he comes closest is actually not there anymore, (available on google search though)

Now presumably the only person that could remove the passage is reznikoff himself, why was it removed? you can see he only mentions he may have made a mistake, and he needs a few days to research it, because he is on the beach. so he hasnt seen the proof yet, and wont admit to a mistake, just maybe a mistake based on what other have told him.


Here is the passage that is deleted,

Jul 24, 2011 – Yup maybe I made a mistake and it is not Pacino . Need a few days to look into it.. ..last days on the beach with my kids.


that's still not an admission as 'maybe' isn't an admission and no one can post a passage where he admits to the pacino error. why doesn't he want people to see this passage anymore.


he let''s other say it and then makes a statement about mistakes in general. not an admission!

try again.

Geez, Travis, you sound exactly like Mueller. He teaches his pupils well.

[travrosty]

you just admitted i was right, because if you had evidence otherwise, you would have posted it, not just said that you give up, that i am a good debater.

Let's see the specific passage where john, out of his own mouth and with his own words says he made a mistake on the pacino?

I just told the truth. I am just interested in the truth regarding this pawn stars mistake. Don't shoot the messenger, if he didn't admit it, and he should have, people should ask him to admit it. I would have respect for that if he admitted it.

It's when people don't admit something, but piggyback others comment in vague terms to give the impression that he actually admitted it that points to his acumen at psychology. A lot of people have it in their mind that he must have admitted it, because it's right there in the record, right? Wrong, it's still not an admission.

[thetruthisoutthere]

you just admitted i was right, because if you had evidence otherwise, you would have posted it, not just said that you give up, that i am a good debater.

let's see the specific passage where john, out of his own mouth and with his own words says he made a mistake on the pacino.

I just told the truth. I am just interested in the truth regarding this pawn stars mistake. Don't shoot the messenger, if he didn't admit it, and he should have, people should ask him to admit it. I would have respect for that.

Thank you, Todd.

[thetruthisoutthere]

The link to the story:

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/oct/06/after-snubbing-pawn-stars-charity-gets-bigger-offe/

Here is John's apology and he made a $1,000.00 donation to the charity.

Turns out that Ruddy writes in a similar fashion, and when Reznikoff realized he was wrong in his assessment, he not only apologized to Catholic Charities but donated $1,000 to the organization.

“Everyone makes mistakes,” he said Wednesday. “The issue is what you do after you make the mistake.”

And in the final analysis, he said, “the charity has benefited from the screenplay, so I’m happy.”

[thetruthisoutthere]

To the members here, I won't apologize for going a bit off-track here, but I am done with this subject. I have made my points.

Done.

[Fuddjcal]

To the members here, I won't apologize for going a bit off-track here, but I am done with this subject. I have made my points.

Done.

Great "points" by both of you, especially the one on Travis' one dimensional, narrow minded, tunnel visioned, selective bashing, unrelenting head.:p

[travrosty]

say what you want, but you cant say i wasnt right.

[RichardSimon]

Just for the heck of it though, if anyone sees the COA's of GFA I would love to see them and the item that is authenticated.

[yardboy]

http://www.autographalert.com
I dont think ebay, psa/dna, or the rest of the so called best experts are mentioned more that 50-60 times with examples. Hmmmm Im so upset, I was told by the yeller on youtube psa/dna was the BEST and only~!
Your right about one thing...

[thekingofclout]

http://www.autographalert.com
I dont think ebay, psa/dna, or the rest of the so called best experts are mentioned more that 50-60 times with examples. Hmmmm Im so upset, I was told by the yeller on youtube psa/dna was the BEST and only~!
Your right about one thing...

Welcome back Pete!

[Leon]

Welcome back Pete!

I'm on it.....yardboy is "Ken Fraley" and if it is Ken, he and I will be having a nice chat today. If it isn't then I will take care of it......LL

[Mr. Zipper]

Anyone else suspect that "Ken" is someone who was tossed off eBay for selling fakes? :rolleyes: In my experience, those are the types that tend to attack the TomTresh videos the most vigorously.

[RichardSimon]

Anyone else suspect that "Ken" is someone who was tossed off eBay for selling fakes? :rolleyes: In my experience, those are the types that tend to attack the TomTresh videos the most vigorously.


+1

[RichardSimon]

Welcome back Pete!

I don't think so.

[thetruthisoutthere]

http://www.autographalert.com
I dont think ebay, psa/dna, or the rest of the so called best experts are mentioned more that 50-60 times with examples. Hmmmm Im so upset, I was told by the yeller on youtube psa/dna was the BEST and only~!
Your right about one thing...

I don't mind anyone bashing me for what I say, do or write, but at least be a man about it and show your true identity.

[Leon]

I don't mind anyone bashing me for what I say, do or write, but at least be a man about it and show your true identity.

Well, this gentleman's wife answered the phone, and once he got on the phone, he and I had a very nice 15 minute chat. He totally understands and appreciates trying to keep this place as "real" as possible. He also told me he had a personally signed Mantle autograph that PSA said was questionable and would not certify. I believe Ken is on the same team as us and feels the same way we do. He can't stand what has happened to this part of the hobby. best regards

[Mr. Zipper]

He also told me he had a personally signed Mantle autograph that PSA said was questionable and would not certify. I believe Ken is on the same team as us and feels the same way we do. He can't stand what has happened to this part of the hobby. best regards

So, another scorned submitter lashing out. :rolleyes:

I'm frankly puzzled what people mean when they say stuff like, "can't stand what has happened to this part of the hobby."

Were they around in the 90s when literally 80% of the stuff on ebay was fake? Did they go to any of the shows in the 90s when many of the show dealers were selling Marino Family forgeries and no one knew it? Have they forgotten the so-called reputable dealers like B&J Collectibles and Stans Sports selling forgeries by the truckload at shows and in big glossy magazine ads?

Admittedly, the hobby has its issues, but it's way cleaner now than it was a decade ago.

[David Atkatz]

According to Chris, 80% of the stuff on eBay is still crap.
(And 80% of the buyers and sellers don't know what they're doing.

Nice round number, 80%.)

[thetruthisoutthere]

I haven't made a video in about nine months and during that time Ebay has made tremendous strides with help from its members in eradicating forgeries. It will never be 100%, that would be impossible, but Ebay finally took a step forward to removing forgeries from their auction site.

During the last year Ebay added Nicholas Burczyk, TTA (Ted Taylor) and Chris Morales to the "Banned COA" list.

Chris Morales, Forensic Investigator, on the "Banned List" and Ted Taylor (TTA and Stat Authentic), Philadelphia Athletics Historian, on the "Banned List" with his renamed authentication company. Congrats to both Taylor and Morales.

[vintagechris]

just curious, who or how would you report someone on ebay who may be selling very large amounts of forgeries? I'm talking about someone who could actually do something about it.

[Leon]

So, another scorned submitter lashing out. :rolleyes:

I'm frankly puzzled what people mean when they say stuff like, "can't stand what has happened to this part of the hobby."

Were they around in the 90s when literally 80% of the stuff on ebay was fake? Did they go to any of the shows in the 90s when many of the show dealers were selling Marino Family forgeries and no one knew it? Have they forgotten the so-called reputable dealers like B&J Collectibles and Stans Sports selling forgeries by the truckload at shows and in big glossy magazine ads?

Admittedly, the hobby has its issues, but it's way cleaner now than it was a decade ago.

Admittedly I don't collect autographs. I have enough headaches on the card side and I "think" I know what I am doing over there. I did tell Ken, while on the phone, that I think the TPA's have probably helped the autograph part of the hobby "some".....I just don't have enough experience to really know how much. I will let you guys hash all of that out. Ken does collect some autographs and did make the statement I said, and in reading this board, it seems like he isn't the only one that feels this way. Now, there are also those folks that think TPG (the card graders) have hurt that side of the hobby. I disagree with them as I do know that part of the hobby and think they have helped. It still isn't perfect but, to me, is a lot better with them than without them. As one of the SGC guys and myself were chatting this morning, concerning a fairly obvious error they made and are trying to rectify....the overriding sentiment is, "you will never make everyone happy." That's the only thing I am certain of!!

[thetruthisoutthere]

Admittedly I don't collect autographs. I have enough headaches on the card side and I "think" I know what I am doing over there. I did tell Ken, while on the phone, that I think the TPA's have probably helped the autograph part of the hobby "some".....I just don't have enough experience to really know how much. I will let you guys hash all of that out. Ken does collect some autographs and did make the statement I said, and in reading this board, it seems like he isn't the only one that feels this way. Now, there are also those folks that think TPG (the card graders) have hurt that side of the hobby. I disagree with them as I do know that part of the hobby and think they have helped. It still isn't perfect but, to me, is a lot better with them than without them. As one of the SGC guys and myself were chatting this morning, concerning a fairly obvious error they made and are trying to rectify....the overriding sentiement is, "you will never make everyone happy." That's the only thing I am certain of!!

It's funny that the same people who complain about the mistakes that PSA, JSA, BGS or SGC make, don't complain when their PSA 10 card/autograph, JSA card/autograph, SGC card or BGS 9.5/10 card sells for a tremendous amount of money because of that PSA, BGS, JSA or SGC high grade or authenticated autograph.

We are all human and we all make mistakes. Some complain because their in-person autograph wasn't authenticated; I don't blame any authenticator who errs on the side of caution as opposed to maybe certing a forgery.

Most collectors have their cards graded or autographs authenticated so that their card or autograph sells for a higher premium.

There was a discussion on the other side about a Ozzie Smith PSA 10 rookie card that sold for $20,000. The collector who got that card graded made a nice penny on that card and the buyer of that card now owns a rare Ozzie Smith PSA 10 rookie card. Both the seller and buyer got what they wanted.

[David Atkatz]

Another idiot who buys the holder rather than the card.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Another idiot who buys the holder rather than the card.

Obviously the seller was able to afford it and he has bragging rights to an Ozzie Smith "1979 Topps" rookie card "Population 4." Good for him.

[David Atkatz]

Yeah. Good for him.

(BTW, he also has bragging rights for being a semifinalist for the 2012 "More Money than Brains" award.)

[GrayGhost]

IMO, the PSA pop business like "one of four graded" is misleading. That is OF ONES GRADED. What about the people who either don't want/can't afford/don't care bout "professional grading"? There is NO way on God's Green Earth there are not MORE MINT Ozzie Rookies out there. Thus, the idea that the "pop is this" does NOT mean that many exist, just that many who someone has cared to get graded. So, I think its ridiculous overall.

That said, for those who do place such a high value on graded cards that any ungraded ones in high grade are basically irrelevant. are happy.

Course, tho I think its nuts. I also know the guy who paid what is a ridiculous 20K for that is happy, so its his life.

Sorry Leon for this , but I wrapped up my thought on it, since the thread had jumped the tracks.

[travrosty]

they are buying the grade, and not the card.

Some high 9's of smith have the 9 grade on the holder because psa doesnt do 9.5's, and these high 9's are in the same condition as the 10 in many instances, just a lot less expensive. They were close but fell on the 9 side of the fence in the graders mind based on if the grader was feeling conservative or liberal that day.

some high 9's keep getting resubmitted by the submitter until it comes back a 10. They are chasing the grade only.

so they have the same card either way, they just want that #10 on there, for the price increase and bragging rights, but the card didnt change.

It's not about the card anymore. If I wanted a pristine ozzie smith card, just buy a nice 9 and save the vast bulk of the purchase price a 10 would cost. even add your own 10 label on it if someone needed the ego boost.

Some guy paid 90 grand for a psa 10 wayne gretzky rookie. It's just insanity, but there are guys out there that already have a lexus for every day of the week and they need to spend their money on something I guess.


its the same thing with getting an LOA with autographs. Many collectors just want the cert, and if the autograph is actually real or not is secondary. They would rather have a fake autograph with a abc/xyz cert than a real one without an LOA. As long as no one tells them the truth.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Imagine, beating up a collector because with his own hard-earned money, he desired, and now owns one of four Ozzie Smith "1979 Topps" rookie cards graded PSA 10. Pitiful.

[David Atkatz]

Give it a rest, Chris. I sure hope PSA or JSA don't turn a corner too quickly, 'cause it might break your neck.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Give it a rest, Chris. I sure hope PSA or JSA don't turn a corner too quickly, 'cause it might break your neck.

Imagine, beating up a collector because with his own hard-earned money, he desired, and now owns one of four Ozzie Smith "1979 Topps" rookie cards graded PSA 10. Pitiful.

[David Atkatz]

Imagine, beating up a collector because with his own hard-earned money, he desired, and now owns one of four Ozzie Smith "1979 Topps" rookie cards graded PSA 10. Pitiful.Imagine, beating up a collector because with his own hard-earned money, he desired, and now owns an eBay Mantle forgery. What kind of person would beat up a collector for that? Oh, wait...

BTW, the moron who bought the Smith is out a sh#tload more money than the poor sap with the bad Mantle!

[thetruthisoutthere]

Imagine, beating up a collector because with his own hard-earned money, he desired, and now owns an eBay Mantle forgery. What kind of person would beat up a collector for that? Oh, wait...

BTW, the moron who bought the Smith is out a sh#tload more money than the poor sap with the bad Mantle!

Who are you to tell someone else how to spend their hard-earned money on his collection?

[travrosty]

He's not collecting the card, he's collecting the grade.

There are 9's out there in the same condition, just a LOT cheaper.

He's a status collector, he collected the status of being a grade 10 - 1 of 4 in a certain circle of collectors that no else is admitted in this circle unless they want to pay that amount also.

There is an app for the iphone called the "I am rich" app, and it consists of a red jewel that shows up on your iphone and that's all it does.

It cost 1000 dollars and some people have bought it for the sole status of saying that they own it and have the means to own it.

He can buy the ozzie smith if he wants to. but he's not buying card or even the condition, he's buying the status, grade 10 - 1 of 4.

If he took it out of the holder, it would still be the same card in the same condition, but he couldn't show others the #10 on the holder anymore and it wouldnt be worth the money even though it is the same card.

i don't know who the guy is, he collects for his own reasons, and others collect for their reasons too, and we don't have to agree.

If he paid 10 million for the card you would think he was still sane? we just have different sane thresholds and #10 cards going for that kind of money crossed my threshold a while ago.

but he can go for it and knock himself out. It's a free country.

[thetruthisoutthere]

He's not collecting the card, he's collecting the grade.

There are 9's out there in the same condition, just a LOT cheaper.

He's a status collector, he collected the status of being a grade 10 - 1 of 4 in a certain circle of collectors that no else is admitted in this circle unless they want to pay that amount also.

There is an app for the iphone called the "I am rich" app, and it consists of a red jewel that shows up on your iphone and that's all it does.

It cost 1000 dollars and some people have bought it for the sole status of saying that they own it and have the means to own it.

He can buy the ozzie smith if he wants to. but he's not buying card or even the condition, he's buying the status, grade 10 - 1 of 4.

If he took it out of the holder, it would still be the same card in the same condition, but he couldn't show others the #10 on the holder anymore and it wouldnt be worth the money even though it is the same card.

i don't know who the guy is, he collects for his own reasons, and others collect for their reasons too, and we don't have to agree.

If he paid 10 million for the card you would think he was still sane? we just have different sane thresholds and #10 cards going for that kind of money crossed my threshold a while ago.

but he can go for it and knock himself out. It's a free country.

Oh I see what you mean, Travis. So the collector who purchased the below piece of crap with the Todd Mueller Autographs cert, bought the cert and not the autograph.

55878

[David Atkatz]

Who are you to tell someone else how to spend their hard-earned money on his collection?Oops! I guess for a minute there I thought I was tomtresh2! :o

[thetruthisoutthere]

Oops! I guess for a minute there I thought I was tomtresh2! :o

That's not possible, David. You see, you're easily intimidated. I'm not.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Travis wrote "He's not collecting the card, he's collecting the grade."

So what if he did collect the grade. The population reports reads that the buyer of that card owns one of four of that particular PSA 10 graded card. That's not an illusion, that's real. If that's what he paid for, so what. What business is it of yours? How does that purchase affect your life, Travis? Explain that to everyone here.

[David Atkatz]

That's not possible, David. You see, you're easily intimidated. I'm not.And you're a jerk.

I'm not.

[David Atkatz]

Travis wrote "He's not collecting the card, he's collecting the grade."

So what if he did collect the grade. The population reports reads that the buyer of that card owns one of four of that particular PSA 10 graded card. That's not an illusion, that's real. If that's what he paid for, so what. What business is it of yours? How does that purchase affect your life, Travis? Explain that to everyone here.And how does some guy buying something on eBay that you don't like effect your life? Explain that to everyone here.

Hypocrite.

[thetruthisoutthere]

And you're a jerk.

I'm not.

I'd rather be a jerk who is never intimidated and bullied, than someone who isn't a jerk who wimps out at the first sign of trouble.

[thetruthisoutthere]

And how does some guy buying something on eBay that you don't like effect your life? Explain that to everyone here.

Hypocrite.

Because I care about the hobby and I do something about it when it comes to forgeries. I don't sit on the sidelines watching other people do the dirty work.

[David Atkatz]

You'd just rather be a bully yourself. And you are. As well as being a self-centered, egotistical, moron. So proud of yourself for yelling at nameless eBay buyers on YouTube.

Real guts there, Chris. LOL

[David Atkatz]

Because I care about the hobby and I do something about it when it comes to forgeries. I don't sit on the sidelines watching other people do the dirty work.No videos in nine months, Chris? What happened? Camcorder break? (Or did someone make you an offer you couldn't refuse?)

[thetruthisoutthere]

You'd just rather be a bully yourself. And you are. As well as being a self-centered, egotistical, moron. So proud of yourself for yelling at nameless eBay buyers on YouTube.

Real guts there, Chris. LOL

That's right, David, is does take guts to do what I do. I have my own method of doing things and that's what I do.

For someone who wimped out on the Piedmont thread, you sure have a lot to say.

I will end this here by stating, David, you're an agitator because you have nothing else to contribute here on Net54.

I will no longer reply to any Atkatz comments. I took the bait and this time I do apologize to the members here for allowing Atkatz to hijack this thread and for my contributing to that hijacking.

[thetruthisoutthere]

No videos in nine months, Chris? What happened? Camcorder break? (Or did someone make you an offer you couldn't refuse?)

Two and half years of videos (almost 200) was enough. There was no need to do any more of them.

[David Atkatz]

Self-righteous schmuck.

[David Atkatz]

Chris! You replied immediately after saying you wouldn't! Does the left half of your brain have any idea what the right half is doing?

[travrosty]

Travis wrote "He's not collecting the card, he's collecting the grade."

So what if he did collect the grade. The population reports reads that the buyer of that card owns one of four of that particular PSA 10 graded card. That's not an illusion, that's real. If that's what he paid for, so what. What business is it of yours? How does that purchase affect your life, Travis? Explain that to everyone here.



It doesnt affect my life, i just think its crazy to overpay for a bump in condition that only a microscope can detect, if there is a bump in condition at all.

[earlywynnfan]

And you're a jerk.

I'm not.



I don't understand why posts like this are tolerated on this forum??

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[GrayGhost]

I agree. This place is turning into nothing but a name calling contest, with two people who can't play in sandbox together. Really pathetic

[novakjr]

Dude!!! What the hell happened in here? David c'mon quit pokin at Chris. It's completely uncalled for.

Anyways. It's one thing for a thread to go off topic, BUT not when there's already a thread about the topic. If you're gonna argue about the PSA 10 Ozzie, do it in the PSA 10 Ozzie thread.

[Mr. Zipper]

It doesnt affect my life, i just think its crazy to overpay for a bump in condition that only a microscope can detect, if there is a bump in condition at all.

In my opinion, uber "high grade" 10s are a theoretical grade and can't be consistantly replicated. A 10 could be 9.9 on another day and vice versa. It applies to cards, comics and coins.

That said, if someone wants to spend their money that way, that's their right. I'd prefer to spend my collecting dollars on 25 "near perfect" somethings than one imaginary perfect exemplar.

[David Atkatz]

I don't understand why posts like this are tolerated on this forum??

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.comAnd the one immediately preceding it should be tolerated, right?

[earlywynnfan]

And the one immediately preceding it should be tolerated, right?

David, you've called him a jerk, hypocrite, self-righteous shmuck, and self-centered, egotistical, moron. After all of this, he called you an agitator. Step back and read the thread again, sir. YOU are dragging this thread down, and you know exactly what you are doing. I ask you to quote one post you've made on this thread that has had any purpose other than to stir the pot.

While we're at it, if someone is willing to spend $20,000 of their money on a baseball card is an "idiot," couldn't that name also be attached to someone who spends $10,000-20,000 on a signed baseball?

While we're at it (again,) I'm tired of hearing Chris bring up your continued silence on the Piedmont situation. How about breaking the cone of silence on that one so we can put it to rest, too?

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[Leon]

Well, crap. I don't really like to step in the middle of threads too much. That being said, when I put my manager cap on, and some good folks are all saying the same thing, then I need to say something. So here is the deal.

David- you need to cut the crap out. I get the fact you were irritated or whatever. If you can't add anything positive please don't just fuel the fire. At the same time, I will also ask Chris and others to keep their distance from you. Next one that throws a jab at each other will get a time out. I don't want this place to get out of control and it's gone far enough. I am trying to be fair to all parties and the board in general. If anyone has any questions....go for it. Thanks for your understanding.

[RichardSimon]

David, you've called him a jerk, hypocrite, self-righteous shmuck, and self-centered, egotistical, moron. After all of this, he called you an agitator. Step back and read the thread again, sir. YOU are dragging this thread down, and you know exactly what you are doing. I ask you to quote one post you've made on this thread that has had any purpose other than to stir the pot.

While we're at it, if someone is willing to spend $20,000 of their money on a baseball card is an "idiot," couldn't that name also be attached to someone who spends $10,000-20,000 on a signed baseball?

While we're at it (again,) I'm tired of hearing Chris bring up your continued silence on the Piedmont situation. How about breaking the cone of silence on that one so we can put it to rest, too?

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

+1

[RichardSimon]

Well, crap. I don't really like to step in the middle of threads too much. That being said, when I put my manager cap on, and some good folks are all saying the same thing, then I need to say something. So here is the deal.

David- you need to cut the crap out. I get the fact you were irritated or whatever. If you can't add anything positive please don't just fuel the fire. At the same time, I will also ask Chris and others to keep their distance from you. Next one that throws a jab at each other will get a time out. I don't want this place to get out of control and it's gone far enough. I am trying to be fair to all parties and the board in general. If anyone has any questions....go for it. Thanks for your understanding.

+1

[Caseyatbat]

Anyways, back to the original topic of this thread....I just ran across some GFA authenticated items for the first time since I learned about their existence. Thought you guys would like to see some of their work.

http://skystuff.skyauction.com/iSynApp/auctionDisplay.action?sid=371&auctionId=541912

http://skystuff.skyauction.com/iSynApp/auctionDisplay.action?sid=371&auctionId=542509

http://skystuff.skyauction.com/iSynApp/auctionDisplay.action?sid=371&auctionId=542519

[RichardSimon]

Anyways, back to the original topic of this thread....I just ran across some GFA authenticated items for the first time since I learned about their existence. Thought you guys would like to see some of their work.

http://skystuff.skyauction.com/iSynApp/auctionDisplay.action?sid=371&auctionId=541912

http://skystuff.skyauction.com/iSynApp/auctionDisplay.action?sid=371&auctionId=542509

http://skystuff.skyauction.com/iSynApp/auctionDisplay.action?sid=371&auctionId=542519

Same exact stuff as the prime online auction for this stuff, I won't give them undue publicity by naming them.
Skyauction.com is a travel site, so happy to see them in the autograph business, what could be better? :D

[Leon]

One further comment on the subject of arguing. I re-read my last post and it probably singled David out a bit too much. My main message was supposed to be that I want everyone to quit bickering so much. However that happens, I don't care. Please carry on....but I have my eye on it. :) thanks ya'll....

[Mr. Zipper]

So is the GFA sticker supposed to resurrect tainted Global Authentics stock?

[barrysloate]

When the memorabilia side was first created there was never any fighting, and we always had interesting discussions about photos, books, 19th century pieces, and the like. Now a bunch of autograph guys have hijacked this whole side of the board. All we have is our daily thread about fradulent autographs, then the same people get into their daily pissing match. I really hate what you guys are doing to the memorabilia side. It's no longer fun to hang out here unless you are in the mood to watch a trainwreck. I hate autographs and think you all have become a pain in the ass.

[travrosty]

In my opinion, uber "high grade" 10s are a theoretical grade and can't be consistantly replicated. A 10 could be 9.9 on another day and vice versa. It applies to cards, comics and coins.

That said, if someone wants to spend their money that way, that's their right. I'd prefer to spend my collecting dollars on 25 "near perfect" somethings than one imaginary perfect exemplar.



agreed,

[thekingofclout]

When the memorabilia side was first created there was never any fighting, and we always had interesting discussions about photos, books, 19th century pieces, and the like. Now a bunch of autograph guys have hijacked this whole side of the board. All we have is our daily thread about fradulent autographs, then the same people get into their daily pissing match. I really hate what you guys are doing to the memorabilia side. It's no longer fun to hang out here unless you are in the mood to watch a trainwreck. I hate autographs and think you all have become a pain in the ass.

I couldn't agree more Barry. Well, I guess that just makes us a couple of sentimental old farts... :)

[drc]

I find the drama, personal fights and evil people writing anonymous blogs too much, but the subject of autographs on this board I find interesting. So I have nothing against autographs being a topic here.

[perezfan]

I couldn't agree more Barry. Well, I guess that just makes us a couple of sentimental old farts... :)

Make it three...

I remember (seems like yesterday) that we on the Memorabilia side took pride in not quibbling and fighting like the "Card Guys". This was known as the civil side of the board. It was basically a place that collectors could come to share information and help others with questions. Too bad it had to change gears so quickly.

I like vintage autographs too, but it does seem that 90% of the fighting, accusations, name calling and drama come from the autograph threads. Many of the frequent autograph posters seem to have an "agenda" that over-rides any potential enjoyment they are deriving from the hobby.

Last I checked, hobbies were for relaxation, recreation and enjoyment. What's happening here is more like a war :(

[barrysloate]

I wasn't suggesting that autographs aren't a fair topic of discussion, as they are an important area of the hobby. And since the level of fraud is epidemic, it's fair game to point out some of the bad ones. But it's the tenor of these threads I don't like. The same guys every day are ragging on each other, and frankly the only thing I can think of to say is that you guys are becoming really boring.

[Fuddjcal]

I wasn't suggesting that autographs aren't a fair topic of discussion, as they are an important area of the hobby. And since the level of fraud is epidemic, it's fair game to point out some of the bad ones. But it's the tenor of these threads I don't like. The same guys every day are ragging on each other, and frankly the only thing I can think of to say is that you guys are becoming really boring.


I for one have probably been one of the most out spoken and seemingly against Travis & David. I AM NOT. I am going tone down the rhetoric.

After further review and not letting my emotions get in the way, I can see where David has a bone to pick with PSA & JSA. If they cost me the kind of money, they cost him on the 27 Yankee ball fiasco, I'd be pretty pissed about it too and I'd regularly speak out about their sloppiness and lackadaisical mistakes. I just wish he wouldn't rail against Richard & Chris, because they are great assets to the hobby and have so much to offer as well.

I also have great respect for Travis & his knowledge on Boxing even though he regularly bashes me and I bash him. Boxing is his passion and PSA & JSA apparently suck at Boxing, so I do get his focus. I just wish he would speak out about ALL forgeries a little more, which are always rampant.

The FDE forgeries are just as important to focus on. Once they are outed, guys like MORALESS, AAU, STAT (they turn to TTA), Birdsick they seemingly go away for a bit and then BANG Tbhey are back on another website or you have new fraudulent FDE's coming out of the woodwork like CSC & ACE pops up and rear their ugly heads. IT IS A BIG Never ending problem & we can thank Chris for helping to spearhead this effort.

Richard is against 3rd party to some degree, but does understand they are the lesser of two evils and regularly "tells it like it really is". He is respected by almost everyone in the hobby and rightfully so.

All in all we are really lucky that these guys put themselves out there and contribute on this board, which is really the standard, by which all blogging is measured. Thanks to all four of you guys, for your passion. FUDD. Happy Super Bowl.

[RichardSimon]

Thank you Chuck, I do appreciate your kind words and the sense of humor you have shown in many of your earlier posts.
Chuck you referred to ACE as an FDE, they are not an FDE.

[RichardSimon]

I wrote to this new company, GFA, 5 days ago from the contact page on their website, asking how to submit autographs for authentication.
I am still waiting for a reply.
It appears to me that they are not looking for retail collector business.

[RichardSimon]

Steve - it would be great if you came here to Net54 and explained to us why e mails are not being answered and what the goals of your company are.
I suspect that many people read this board who never post and hope that you are one of them.
Let us hear from you, it would be very helpful to your new endeavor if we had an idea where it was headed. So far only a couple of your certs have appeared on a site that I prefer not to name because they deserve no publicity from me

[RichardSimon]

Steve - we now see your certs all over that infamous website,,, the one I shall never name,, but its the one where Birdsick used to operate.
Care to explain yourself now?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Did Stephen Rocchi and his Forensic Experts really forensically examine the below Mickey Mantle signed photo and certify it as authentic?

We have seen that same Mickey Mantle signed photograph "authenticated" by Nicholas Burczyk, Chris Morales, Ted Taylor and Drew Max.

Please note that I will not show the link where this originates from. But for my own files, I have printed the entire auction page.

56996

56997

56998

56999

[earlywynnfan]

Gee, it already had a Global sticker, how much authenticatin' can one pic get??

Ken

[novakjr]

Gee, it already had a Global sticker, how much authenticatin' can one pic get??

Ken

Maybe somebody resubmitted it to GFA for their money back guarantee, and Global was chosen as the authorized 3rd party.:D

From their website....
"In the event the purchaser of a GFA authenticated signature believes that the signature is not genuine with respect to GFA standards and procedures, he/she may submit the signature through the GFA “Guarantee Resubmission” service and GFA will submit the signature to an authorized 3rd party forensic authenticator for additional examination.

If authenticity is determined under such “Guarantee Resubmission” procedures to be found non-authentic, GFA shall pay the purchase price for the autograph in question or at the owner of the signature’s option to replace the signature with a GFA authenticated signature of the original signer of similar item and value."

[RichardSimon]

Maybe somebody resubmitted it to GFA for their money back guarantee, and Global was chosen as the authorized 3rd party.:D

From their website....
"In the event the purchaser of a GFA authenticated signature believes that the signature is not genuine with respect to GFA standards and procedures, he/she may submit the signature through the GFA “Guarantee Resubmission” service and GFA will submit the signature to an authorized 3rd party forensic authenticator for additional examination.

If authenticity is determined under such “Guarantee Resubmission” procedures to be found non-authentic, GFA shall pay the purchase price for the autograph in question or at the owner of the signature’s option to replace the signature with a GFA authenticated signature of the original signer of similar item and value."

'cept GAI can be called many things but forensic is not one of them.
So the GFA people don't need GAI but we are all still wondering what forensic authenticator is the alternate that they babble about.
It is six days now since I wrote to them asking about how to submit and I am still waiting for an answer.
That customer service dept. must be sooooo busy,,,
Hey Steve,,, what's up? Apparently nothing but same s--- different company.

[drc]

A guess is the photo is stock leftover from GAI and/or its owners. I said a guess.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Well I guess Stephen Rocchi (GFA) and his team of Guaranteed Forensic Authenticators are up and running.

They forensically authenticated another one of these Mantle signed photographs. What a piece of garbage. Mr. Rocchi, maybe you can come over here and explain to us the forensic techniques used to "authenticate" the below Mantle autograph?

57372

57373

57374

[Mr. Zipper]

It didn't take long for this matter to become clear.

SSDFE

[RichardSimon]

It didn't take long for this matter to become clear.

SSDFE

It started with Birdsick and then ---->> GFA.
And Mr Rocchi's firm does not answer their e mail and most obviously does not want any public submissions or contact.
And I bet he reads this site.

[RichardSimon]

Chris - if you look at the auction ad you can see it is an autogrape , not necessarily an autograph.
Perhaps the authenticators thought they were working with fruit.

[thetruthisoutthere]

It started with Birdsick and then ---->> GFA.
And Mr Rocchi's firm does not answer their e mail and most obviously does not want any public submissions or contact.
And I bet he reads this site.

I bet Mr. Rocchi reads this. I hope he does.

[travrosty]

so....GFA is no good?

[Wymers Auction]

I love the $1800 compare price while theirs is only bringing $23. Just plain silly!!!

[RichardSimon]

I love the $1800 compare price while theirs is only bringing $23. Just plain silly!!!

And those things (I won't call them autographs) used to flood ebay with amateur sellers trying to make a killing. They saw these auctions paid little $ for these items and tried to sell them on ebay, using the same compare at $1800 wording in their ebay ads.
Simply foolish, not to mention stupid.