Shoeless Joe Jackson and the T206

[ScottFandango]

Why was Joe included in the E90-1 American Caramel set yet not included in the much larger t206 set issued at the same time?

Shoeless only played 10 games for the Philadelphia A's from 1908-1909..he spent most of these years in the minors...

He was an excellent minor leaguer in 1909, batting .358 in 118 games in the southern league...

he was traded to Cleveland in 1910 and played for the Pelicans...

Most probably, the E90-1 Joe Jackson was made in 1910.....so why no t206 Joe Jackson card, especially considering all the career minor leaguers included in the monster.

The E90-1 set has far fewer minor leaguers and was much more in tune with current trades and "hot" current players throughout 1908-1911...

Does it have anything to do with other Philadelphia A's players such as Plank..

The e90-1 plank was printed in 1908, and the t206 was printed in 1909 or 1910....
So why no T206 Joe Jackson?

Was it because the A's owner wanted to control his players even more than on the field? Is this related to the plank rarity?

Thoughts?

Did the Philadelphia

[Rob D.]

You might find this previous post, and most of the comments that followed, interesting and informative.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=125317&highlight=redux

[ScottFandango]

Thanks for that reference thread...
Tim had a great post!

One thing is strange to me still...the t206 set was printed not only in 1909 but also in 1910 (as evidenced by buck herzog's two cards)...then why wasn't joe Jackson included in the "updated" version of t206 like so many marginal players were...surely an up and coming superstar would have been chosen instead of the slew of "no names" that made it into the multi-year t206 set....

Sgc has the Plank card as 1910 Btw....

[packs]

I don't really miss Joe Jackson. I do wish there was a Connie Mack.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Were the E90-1's printed in Philadelphia? If so, I think that is your answer as to why he was included in that set.

[ScottFandango]

Yes they were printed In Philly..

Simple as being a homer?

[Runscott]

Yes they were printed In Philly..

Simple as being a homer?

Ted wrote up a great theory on why various Philadelphia players were/weren't included in tobacco or Caramel sets. I would really love to see him write a clear, concise summary of what he discovered.

[tedzan]

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/abjoejaxt206.jpg

On Aug 25th 1908, Connie Mack brought up Shoeless Joe from the Greenville Spinners to play for the A's. Joe just didn't fit in with the College bred players
on the A's team. He played in only a handful of games with the A's in 1908 & 1909.

Meanwhile, the Philadelphia based American Caramel Co. (ACC) issued the 1st series of their E90-1 set in the latter part of 1908. Cards such as the CYoung
(Boston Amer.), and other player's cards in this 1st series support this late 1908 date. And, as we all know, they included Joe in their early series of E90-1
set. The A's were "hot-stuff" in 1909 with their new stadium (Shibe Park) and a great team....ACC capitalized on this by included the following twelve A's in
their E90-1 set......

HR Baker
Jack Barry
Chief Bender
Eddie Collins
Harry Davis
Jimmy Dygert
Heinie Heitmuller
Joe Jackson
Harry Krause
Stuffy McInnis
Eddie Plank
Ira Thomas

In the Spring/Summer of 1909, the 1st (150) Series of the T206 set was available which included only these A's players......

Bender
Davis
Murphy
Nicholls
Oldring
and,
a short supply of Eddie Plank cards

Now, we can speculate over the possibility that ACC controlled the "player's rights" to their hometown guys; therefore, preventing the T206 set designers
from portraying many of the A's guys in their 1st series.

In 1910, Joe played for the New Orleans Pelicans. On July 30th 1910, Connie Mack traded Joe Jackson to Cleveland for Bris Lord. Unlike his short stint with
the A's, Joe felt at home with his Cleveland team mates; and, he demonstrated this by batting .408 in 1911.

By then the T206 era was over.

But, it's very fascinating that Joe Jackson is not featured in any major Tobacco or Candy sets during his great playing years (1911-1920)....with the excep-
tion of the 1917 Collins-McCarthy set.
Did I omit any other card set in this period featuring Joe Jax ?


Thanks to Scot Reader for my "T206" HINDU Joe Jackson card.


TED Z

[ullmandds]

Cracker jack.

[wonkaticket]

[IMG] But, it's very fascinating that Joe Jackson is not featured in any major Tobacco or Candy sets during his great playing years (1911-1920)....with the exception of the 1917 Collins-McCarthy set.
Did I omit any other card set in this period featuring Joe Jax ?TED Z

LOL More than Collins McCarthy.....Ted......:confused:

1909-11 (E254) Colgan's Chips
1910 (T210-8) Old Mill Cigarettes Series
1911 (M101-2) Sporting News Supplements
1911 (T5)Pinkerton #616
1911-15 Base Ball Stars Notebooks
1912 Schmeltzer Sporting Goods pin
1913 Police Gazette Supplement
1913 (E270) Colgan's Chips Tin Tops
1913 (T200) Fatima Team Cards Cleveland American
1913 (T200) Fatima Team Premiums Cleveland American
1913 (WG5) The National Game
1913 (WG6) Tom Barker Game
1914 Boston Garter #6
1914 (B18) Blankets Purple Pennants
1914 (B18) Blankets Yellow Pennants
1914 (E145-I) Cracker Jack #103
1914 E & S Publishing Post Card
1914 Notebook Covers
1914 (WG4) Polo Grounds Game
1914 (E224-1) Texas Tommy
1915 (E145-II) Cracker Jack #103
1915 (D350-1) Standard Biscuit #86
1915 W-unc Strip Card #7
1916 (D350-1) Standard Biscuit #87
1916 (M101-5)
1916 (M101-4)
1916 (H801-9) Globe Clothing Store #87
1916 (D352) Morehouse Baking Co. #87
1916 (E135) Standard Biscuit #82
1916 (D329) Weil Baking Co. #87
1916 (BF2) Ferguson Bakery Felt Pennants (Orange/Blue)
1916 (E135) Collins-McCarthy #82
1917 (D328) Weil Baking Co. #82

Two seconds of web search.....

John

[tedzan]

But, it's very fascinating that Joe Jackson is not featured in any
major Tobacco or Candy sets during his great playing years (1911-1920)....

[ullmandds]

Cracker jacks were not a major set?

[wonkaticket]

But, it's very fascinating that Joe Jackson is not featured in any
major Tobacco or Candy sets during his great playing years (1911-1920)....

http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/net54shared/huge/Untitled-1_2.jpg

I guess we will have to wait to hear your "NEW Ted Z" definition of major Tobacco & Candy sets….beyond 1911 this seems like what was available to the public for distribution…..and Jackson is present in a lot of them. :confused:

John

P.S. None of those are my cards yanked from REA, if one is yours I'm green with envy! :)

[MVSNYC]

John- do you still have the scan of that T206 Jackson proof card from a few years ago? i think we pulled that out on April Fool's Day :)

[wonkaticket]

Too funny Mike was talking about that tonight with Jim R. :D

Here's the Jackson I made...funny the fake girls "April" photbucket is still there...LOL. Boy I got some classic emails from some folks with offers and from some big folks too. :)

Very Funny. Ahhh the good ol' days fo Net54. NYC dinners, Dial 777 limos for Bruce etc.

http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/jackname.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/Jackson_1.jpg

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1175407814/last-1175455959/Question+on+value+and+year

Cheers,

John

[ScottFandango]

Now now boys lets all get along...

Since there were more marginal players/minor leaguers in the monster than the 48 southern leaguers, how come shoeless wasn't included in the 1910 printing of the monster?

Tim post is great but only addresses the spring 1909 but surely the monster was printed after that....jackson was a star in 1909 albeit a minor leaguer...