The fall of the candy card

[caramelcard]

We've had a lot of threads about candy issues over the years. They were hot for quite a while and now...well, it's a great time to collect them.

But where are they? It seems most of us have tucked them away hesitant to sell (or even trade) them while they're "cheap".

Anybody out there still collecting E90-E106? I've tried every set in there except E99, E100, and E107, but it seems like it would be a lot more difficult to accumulate any of these right now.

On ebay at the moment there are zero E96, E94, E97 etc auctions.

E107 dipped quite a bit, but made a come back.

Think there will be a overall pickup in interest or will these continue to fall like so many other types have?

I collect a lot of non-sports caramel sets and some of them are stronger then the baseball issues right now. Craziness.

Thoughts?

Rob

[ChiefBenderForever]

What will happen first, E cards come back or T206 back prices drop? Are the E cards part of the first bubble with T206 to follow? Collectors love and want them but will not pay while tough backs are being overpaid. Funny how quick things can change.

[familytoad]

Rob, good question...
The E cards are terrific, but they sure seem more cyclic than other sets.
And of all folks...you oughta know:D!

Since this seems to be one of those times when the supply has dried up (probably more for the reasons you mention rather than scarcity), I haven't added to my caramel quests in some time.
It's not just eBay...BST doesnt have low grade caramels anywhere often enough for my taste;)

I'm still in though...who's with us?

[martin neal]

I'm in, although I only pick one up every now and then. If my cash flow was better, I would be all over them. Just picked up a e90-1 Bender on Ebay.

[barrysloate]

They will come back. The hobby always moves in cycles. They will be back up, T206 will slip at some point...it's as sure as the sun rises.

[ullmandds]

I'm still into E cards...in fact I'm getting rid of most...if not all of my t206's. I've been working on the e94 set this year...there was a pretty steady stream of low grade e94's on ebay until recently...I have stalled out with 3 left to complete the set!!!!!!

[scooter729]

It seems like the past week or two have been a bit slow for most things on eBay - likely due to Christmas and New Years and the further hesitance of sellers to list around these times, when potential birders may be traveling.

So let's hope for increased listings of these caramel cards - and everything else - after the first of the year!

[gnaz01]

I have gotten rid of all my t206's to pursue caramel cards, I love reading through my Egan's Handbook and studying about them. My favorite is the E125's, as I have picked up 5 in the last few months, including a Mathewson, Honus Wagner, and Chief Bender. I love 'em!! :D

[Kzoo]

It's not just eBay...BST doesnt have low grade caramels anywhere often enough for my taste;)

It's not that I have a hole burning in my pocket as I'm pretty patient, but the past month has been painfully boring on Ebay and the BST in my searching (due to the holiday season). The E's are out there in the Ebay museum, but I'm not taking the bait. I'll let those dreamers sink with their ship before I pay double or triple the value. I think everything will pick up by Feb. 1st (I hope), otherwise I may need counseling.

Matt

[ullmandds]

This was evident at the national last summer with some e issues as well...there were no e94's to be found...and very few e98's. One dealer had a red background e98 jennings in f-g condition...and he was asking $1500...but was willing to go down 10%...what a guy!

I think the issue with e94/e98 is the # of collectors going for master sets...combined with the rest of the e collectors has created a serious dearth of these issues available for consumption!

[FrankWakefield]

The Wagner card draws some initial interest to the T cards. In a way, that gets new collectors interested in prewar cards and they go on to discover E cards. But I think sometimes these new collectors just stay with the white border cards, their entry point.

I think that some of the folks that want to collect graded cards can find some T cards at grade levels the desire. Most E cards are worn a bit more than T cards, somewhat a result of many times going straight into the hands of kids at the point of acquisition, then on into the kids' pockets. Collecting E90-1s in slabs with 1's, 2's and A's on them isn't as fulfilling as collecting T206's with 4's, 5's and 6's on them. My point, I think that graded card collecting has slightly exacerbated the collectability of E cards.

[sportscardpete]

I'd much rather collect caramels than t206's. I started an e104 set that is actually much cheaper than I anticipated. I've also been able to pick up a few type caramels that were perfectly in my budget. I really do want an Uzit/Drum t206, but for the price for one of those I could build a nice starter type set in caramels.

[Leon]

Great thread and post Robert. I agree with everyone above. I like the E's as much or more than any of the T's. If I were a set collector I would be as happy as a pig in poop concerning the prices (when we can find them) of the e cards right now. And like Barry said, they will go back up, just as the sun rises and sets. I have thought about the exact premise of this thread at least 50 times in the last 6 months. And lastly, good point on availability too. You don't see too many caramels for sale right now and that is in fact probably a combination of different factors, one being folks don't want to sell in a down market and the other being their relative scarcity compared to T's. When I look at the spreadsheet of my caramel types, some of them today are priced where they were 10 yrs ago. It's a great time to be collecting them. I picked up the Mello Mint below raw on ebay, thought it vg-ex when I bought it, and paid $250. They have retained their value more than the more common ones Robert mentioned. (love the overprints too!!) best regards

http://luckeycards.com/pe94overprintset3.jpg

[smtjoy]

I'm a big E card fan and the supply is at rock bottom which makes it tough. I can understand why thou no need to sell into this down market, I have a few dupes that I am holding onto for when the market goes back up.

I am down to 3 E93's and have not had a pickup in 9 months.

[dog*dirt]

I concur with what everyone has been saying. I have picked up of few E93's over the last year and a few E102's and although the cards I bought are not in the best condition the prices were pretty low.

I could not find an E102 Knabe for a long time and was able to pick this one up at the Philly show

[HRBAKER]

Like many have stated in the thread, I am anywhere from a few cards to many away from some of the smaller E card sets. I will bet I picked up less than a half dozen in 2011. I too understand sellers not wanting to put cards at play in the current market. On the other hand I am not sure the market was ever at or will ever get to the level of some of the B-I-N examples available on ebay.

[ullmandds]

I also wonder if printing errors/miscues/color variations will ever be recognized/placed on a pedestal the way they are w/t206.

[Leon]

I also wonder if printing errors/miscues/color variations will ever be recognized/placed on a pedestal the way they are w/t206.

I don't know the answer but I hope so. They seem to be less prevalent than their T counterparts..

[caramelcard]

Good to see there are still some folks collecting these sets or types.

I thought for a minute that Tbob finally did just buy all of them up!

Good point about the E card errors and mis-cuts.

I think one of the reasons the T206 errors and mis-cuts have become so popular is due to how many folks collect them. They're looking for something new and will pay to find it. They also sometimes reveal something about the printing process which is obviously significant.

E card errors are really rare. Especially with E95 and E96 which appear to have been mainstream premiums. The Philly Caramel quality control must've been really good.

I've only seen a handful of E98 errors or printing flaws. I think Steve F had some interesting hand cut E98s which were the first I've ever seen.

Rob

[Leon]

Good to see there are still some folks collecting these sets or types.

I thought for a minute that Tbob finally did just buy all of them up!

Good point about the E card errors and mis-cuts.

I think one of the reasons the T206 errors and mis-cuts have become so popular is due to how many folks collect them. They're looking for something new and will pay to find it. They also sometimes reveal something about the printing process which is obviously significant.

E card errors are really rare. Especially with E95 and E96 which appear to have been mainstream premiums. The Philly Caramel quality control must've been really good.

I've only seen a handful of E98 errors or printing flaws. I think Steve F had some interesting hand cut E98s which were the first I've ever seen.

Rob

Hey Robert
Not sure how much of an error this is but I picked it up at the first Oaks show I attended. Bridwell's back is feeling almost twice the pain and Walsh has a sunburn!!

[caramelcard]

Very cool Leon.

I think Pete C had a similar back to the Bridwell (maybe cy young) for sale a long time ago. That is rare!

Also love your E26 back since I collect that set as well.

Have not seen a registration problem quite like that Walsh on an E98, but have seen some that are missing a color and looked washed out on the face.

Caramels with the name on the top and the bottom are really difficult! I think we've only seen a couple on this board. I wanna say E90-2 or an E104, but I don't remember seeing a mainstream caramel card with the name on the top. I'm probably wrong.

[Tim Kindler]

Rob and Everyone,
Neat to see thoughts and ideas on caramel cards. I too prefer to collect them over the Tcards. Yes, I definately think the caramel cards are drying up. At one time, I think it was common thought that there was 1 caramel card for every 100 T cards. I think that this is way under estimated in that there are WAY more T cards than E cards. At least it seems that way, unless like Rob said, everyone has packed them away in their collections.

Here are a few E98 oddballs. The blue Mcgraw and Meyer have odd backs like Leon's and the "Pale Face" McGraw has no pink color to his face like all of my other McGraws'

[jbsports33]

We sell more T206 cards than any other right now! candy cards are not asked about as much anymore

Jimmy

[judsonhamlin]

I am still collecting some of the E sets, but not as a priority. E90 is frustrating because the same 40 or so cards are on eBay (Summers, anyone?) and the rest are catch as catch can - the 38 I need include many that I haven't seen at all recently, at any price even a ridiculous one. I collect e92,101 and 102 as one set, and that has even fewer cards for sale than E90.
Ah well, all in good time.

[caramelcard]

Hi Judson,

I agree. The E92s, E101, E102s have just disappeared. Again, I feel like it's because folks were selling them for what they thought was too cheap and decided to hold onto them. Especially the commons. The crofts candy and crofts cocoa fell so low I thought I could pick a few up but haven't seen many around.

Tim, nice cards! I guess they're not as rare as I thought? :p Well, you probably have more E98s right now then most people in the world right now so I'll stand by that comment.

I collect more tobacco cards then caramels at the moment but I'm looking forward to diving back into these small sets.

rob

[Bosox Blair]

I also agree with what has been said. I'm a big fan of E-cards. Aside from the Red Sox in those sets, I'm working on an E92 Dockman set.

Been 3 cards away for awhile now. Took advantage of the availability and very low prices over the last 3 years, but there are not many for sale lately...

Cheers,
Blair

[ScottFandango]

it seems a lot of the E90-1 cards are being sold on EBAY at ridiculously high BIN...

not often you get a real .99 auction for any of these cards....

it seems dealers/sellers buy these at lower prices and then throw them on BIN for triple what they paid....

[ScottFandango]

I am still collecting some of the E sets, but not as a priority. E90 is frustrating because the same 40 or so cards are on eBay (Summers, anyone?) and the rest are catch as catch can - the 38 I need include many that I haven't seen at all recently, at any price even a ridiculous one. I collect e92,101 and 102 as one set, and that has even fewer cards for sale than E90.
Ah well, all in good time.



that is because the e90-1 SET has a huge dichotomy between common cards and rare cards...most are VERY COMMON, but they are a few dozen that are very rare indeed...its because these cards were not produced at once, instead having many different print runs....

i wont mention "SHADED REVERSE BORDERS" variations on this set cause i dont want to get into a heated discussion but.....search feature it

[sportscardpete]

it seems a lot of the E90-1 cards are being sold on EBAY at ridiculously high BIN...

not often you get a real .99 auction for any of these cards....

it seems dealers/sellers buy these at lower prices and then throw them on BIN for triple what they paid....


It's almost like 2008 in our financial crisis. People were trying to sell Real Estate bonds at 100 cents on the dollar, even if prices were crashing. They were worth 60 cents at most, but people kept holding out for the 100 cents because that is what they thought they were worth.

No one is selling their caramels for a loss! That's why there are so few real auctions for them. They know off the bat that they are going to get a crap price for them.

[sportscardpete]

And for the record, I bought an e104 on the cheap on ebay a few months ago. The seller sent me an email saying, "nice deal, this is why I hate using ebay". The fact there are so few buyers for certain sets makes anyone hesitate to sell cards.

[judsonhamlin]

that is because the e90-1 SET has a huge dichotomy between common cards and rare cards...most are VERY COMMON, but they are a few dozen that are very rare indeed...its because these cards were not produced at once, instead having many different print runs....

i wont mention "SHADED REVERSE BORDERS" variations on this set cause i dont want to get into a heated discussion but.....search feature it

I saw your old posts at the time about the shaded baseballs, and found them interesting. As far as the disparate head counts of the cards, I am amazed at the scale. I mean, for every 25 Krause, Summers or Mitchell (NY), I don't even see one Tenney, Dougherty or Bemis. That doesn't even get us to the true toughs - McLean, Speaker, Shean, Duffy, etc.

[ScottFandango]

even more interesting is :

1: there are ZERO shaded cards for sale on EBAY
2: the cards that have the shaded variation are all LOW POP players..
ie. summers and the rest of the commons have ZERO shaded versions..
3. when you look at the FRONT of the SHADED versions, they all have similar front images and color and all look like they came from a different set than the rest of the e90-1 (hint; think red backgrounds with full poses)
4. people on this board got caught up in semantics and missed the bigger picture that the shaded version painted: The rare tiers become more obvious when you look at the shaded versions that exist.
5. since the backs of E90-1 have long been considered identical, this "variation" had been undiscovered for 100 years!

good stuff

[judsonhamlin]

I think most of the red background cards are much tougher, along with (almost) the "sunset" images.
Great stuff for more research...