How exactly does one become a card grader

[kmac32]

Question of the day. How exactly does a person become a card grader? What background/ education does one need? Is there any special training?

[ErikV]

This question has piqued my interest for some time. A couple of years
ago, PSA was accepting job openings for card graders. I was interested
in a part time gig, but I couldn't give up my current job, so it never did work
out for me.

I too am curious if there's a training period, qualified testing, or recurrent
training associated with this position?

ErikV.

[kmac32]

Erick, where in California are you? Wonder if you would need to live in Orange County and go into Newport Beach every day or if you could work from your home and mail things in? Intriguing question as I am disabled due to spinal stroke. Would love to play with ball cards all day.

[glchen]

I would think that grading, especially at PSA, would be like a sweatshop, where you would need to grade thousands of card each day. The only benefit might be that every now and then you might see a really interesting prewar card, but probably 99.99%, you'd have to deal w/ all of these vintage and shiny cards.

[Fred]

Seriously, you guys don't know how to become a card grader? It's quite simple for PSA. You request a job application and submit it in person. If you have a pulse you've passed the first requirement. If you wear glasses then all you need to do is make sure you bring in your latest prescription to show that your glassses are up to date. If you're vision isn't great you can still be hired but don't bring your seeing eye dog with you because that increases the chances of the dog getting hired....

I think that PSA performs an ink blot test on the applicants to see if they are capable of subjectively determining exactly what the blotches are...

Seriously, how much training would it require? PSA obviously doesn't provide their graders with the same criteria that they publish on their website, but then again perhaps it's not a requirement to be able to read if you get hired on as a grader for PSA.

Crap, I almost made it until December 31 without saying something negative about PSA, there goes that New Years resolution... but then agian, I didnt' really impart anything that negative about PSA, in fact, I consider what I wrote a compliment based on how I really feel.... does that mean I didn't screw up my New Years Resolution??? :eek: :confused: :D

[Ladder7]

http://www.indianagrain.com/media/images/blog_entries/2965.jpg

[Gradedcardman]

I believe Steve has it !!

[kmac32]

Fred, if I/we became graders at PSA, would we need to worry about you mailing anthrax spores to us for grading? Guess I better apply to SGC for the job instead. LOL. Less chance of letter bombs or suspicious packages.

[doug.goodman]

... to photoshop the sign...

[pclpads]

First, you apply and get accepted for a job as a monkey intern at your local zoo. Once you have successfully passed all phases of monkey training, then you are eminently qualified to become a card grader. :D

[frankbmd]

100 recruits sit in a room. A card is passed around and graded by each. If you are able to come up with a grade different from the other 99, you become a Sophomore. Requirements for advancing to the Junior and Senior years are proprietary secrets kept in a vault in Orlando. I'm still in the first room.

[ErikV]

Guess this thread has gone to hell. Can't have a legitimate question
asked or answered without all the PSA haters throwing in their two cents.
My guess if "PSA" was replaced with "SGC" everyone whose posted sofar
would have been a little more helpful with their responses.

ErikV

[kmac32]

Erik, typical for the board. Would be interesting to hear from Brian Dwyer or anyone else that has worked for SGC or PSA.

[Fred]

Erik,

As someone figured out there are a few of us that really don't care for PSA. I don't think any of us posted negative things with the intentions of sabotaging this thread.

I apologize if you feel I ruined your thread, that was not my intent. In any case, I know in the early days they used a few hobby veterans at PSA but when the volume increased I'm sure the hiring requirements got pretty lienient. I honestly don't know how they pick graders these days.



http://www.net54baseball.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51777&stc=1&d=1324187518


http://www.net54baseball.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51778&stc=1&d=1324187839

[barrysloate]

Erik- let me try to answer your question since nobody else did. Of course all graders have to get some training. I believe most of them are pretty young and have excellent eyesight. If you can't see too well, not a good field to go into. If you are thinking about becoming a grader I'm sure you could call the company and inquire. I know from my own experience cataloguing collections over the years, it's very tedious work. As pointed out, most cards are not exciting and not vintage. The bulk of submissions are post-war, and many will be modern. I'm also going to guess the attrition rate is high. Only a handful will make a career of it; I'm sure many leave after a short period of time. And I'm certain all the graders are working quickly and with a deadline to get stuff out ASAP, which explains the large number of errors made. Probably not a glamour job, but somebody's got to do it.

[Fred]

This is actually a pretty interesting topic, it makes me wonder a few things:


How much do they pay graders?
Is hobby experience a requirement or is it something that only enhances the resume?
How do they assess (evaluate) a grader?
Is there a "career path" (seriously, for retention)?
What is the actual process for grading a card? I've heard that a card is passed to a few different graders for evaluation.
Are they supposed to grade a certain number of cards in a predetermined amount of time?


The last question is something I'm really curious about. I'm sure that time is money to the grading companies so it benefits the grading companies to have as many cards graded as possible in an effor to maintain profitibility. This has a direct relationship to the value provided to the customer/consumer.

I've heard (must be an urban legend amongst hobby consumers) that a card is passed around to a few graders to determine the grade of a card. I find that hard to believe because if that's being done then I don't understand how paperloss and other defects get by the graders. I believe that it would be a good idea to pass a card to a few different graders without letting the other graders know the "grade/evaluation" assigned by the other graders. This would allow the grading company to determine if there was a large variance in the grade but that probably wouldn't be econimcally feasible.

[steve B]

I would think they'd be better off with someone with no hobby experience for most tasks. Sometimes it's better to start with a blank slate then someone who has already developed biases based on experience or bad information. That way they could be trained purely on the technical merits of a printed object and its state of preservation.

For stuff like determining if a card is real or reprint experience would help, and determining trimmed or not would take more knowledge of the sets and how they were produced, a bit more technical than the grading.

So maybe the three graders are one group that looks at authenticity, a second that looks for alterations, and the third are actually assigning the numerical grade?

I'm thinking that's how I'd set it up if there was enough volume.

[Exhibitman]

Smoke two joints in the morning
Smoke two joints at night
Smoke two joints in the grading room
It makes me feel all right

[xanderthegreat35]

Found this video on youtube, it might be outdated but its an inside look on the operations that take place at PSA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXid6VPJz6k

[barrysloate]

Smoke two joints in the morning
Smoke two joints at night
Smoke two joints in the grading room
It makes me feel all right

You may be on to something.

[Zach Wheat]

Alex,

Thanks for the link to PSA Grading posted on Youtube. Answers a lot of things I had not realized about PSA. It is a more involved process than I first imagined.

Z Wheat

[buymycards]

Ken,
Please PayPal me $100. I will have your authentic "graders certification kit" in the mail right away. The kit includes a diploma, a blindfold, darts, and a dartboard.

Good luck with your new career!

Rick

(Just want to say that I don't have any problems with any grading company. I just enjoy being a smart ass).

[Runscott]

I would be surprised if they didn't have graders assigned to specific card-types - I can't imagine that the same guy who does 1988 Donruss also does Old Judge. If I got a job as a grader, I would expect them to use my pre-war expertise to put me primarily on tobacco and caramel cards. These are more valuable cards - it only makes sense that they would use someone with the correct background to grade them.

[chaddurbin]

just because you're a prewar collector doesn't mean you get to jump right into grading 4fig+ ts and ojs...there's probably a process and progression. from what kevin saucier had posted psa was interested in hiring him, but they wanted to train him first at a lower grading position whereas he felt with his experience he should've been at least senior position...which PSA declined.

erik--would've been cool if you had applied. i saw that psa was hiring also and thought would've been cool 10 years ago if i was still in school...would've applied for a summer or something (the dark room don't look very enticing tho)

[Runscott]

just because you're a prewar collector doesn't mean you get to jump right into grading 4fig+ ts and ojs...there's probably a process and progression. from what kevin saucier had posted psa was interested in hiring him, but they wanted to train him first at a lower grading position whereas he felt with his experience he should've been at least senior position...which PSA declined.

erik--would've been cool if you had applied. i saw that psa was hiring also and thought would've been cool 10 years ago if i was still in school...would've applied for a summer or something (the dark room don't look very enticing tho)

That's a shame, and partially explains some of their problems.

Has nothing to do with '4fig + ts and ojs', and has everything to do with having the appropriate expertise on each card. You grade a $20 VG T206 the same way you grade a $1,000 VG T206, and the expertise is the same. The expertise for grading a $20 VG T206 is NOT the same as what't required to grade a $20 NM modern card.

Forget the dollar value - skill is the issue here.

[kmac32]

Rick, I need your snail mail address to send you $100.00 in Monopoly money

[Pup6913]

And I thought I was the only one that dislikes PSA.

To answer the OP question I would think IMO that you would have to know your cards and issues. Know the correct grading scale(not PSA's:D), be able to identify alterations. If applying to PSA just forget all that and only know your cards. If you can't identify them I am sure they have SGC's # on speed dial for help :eek:

[Exhibitman]

I suspect the interview process goes something like this:

Joe Orlando: Okay, before we get started, I have one question, has anyone here graded cards before?

Man: (raises his hand) I have experience grading cards.

Joe: Good for you. You can get up too.

Man: What? Why?

Joe: We don't hire graders here, we train new ones. That's it Skippy - pack your $***, let's go. (the man leaves)

Okay, here's the deal, I'm not here to waste your time. Okay, I certainly hope you're not here to waste mine, so I'm gonna keep this short. Become an employee of this grading firm, you will misgrade your first million cards within 3 years. Okay, I'm gonna repeat that, you will misgrade a million cards, within three years of your first day of employment at PSA.

Now you all look sloppyand out of shape, and that's good. Anybody who tells you that third party grading is the root of all evil, doesn't f***ing have any good cards. They say slabbed cards can't buy happiness. Look at the f***ng smile on my face! Ear to ear baby! You want details, fine. I drive a Hyundai. What's up? (he slides his keys across the long boardroom table) I have a ridiculous studio apartment in Anaheim. I have every G.I. Joe toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, I am liquid to five figures.

So now you know what's possible, let me tell you what's required. You are required to work your F****** A** off at this firm. We want graders here, not pikers. A piker worries about getting every grade right. A piker asks how come there's so much variance between the same grades depending on who is looking at them. Concerns? People come to work at this firm for one reason, to grade cards as fast as we can, that's it. We're not here to get the grades right the first time, we're not saving the f***ing manatees here guys. You want to be consistent graders who care about every grade, go teach third grade at a public school.

Okay, first three months at the firm are as a trainee, you'll make 150 dollars a week. After you've done training, you misgrade some cards, you become a junior misgrader and you're misgrading cards for your team leader. You misgrade forty dozen cards you start working for yourself, the sky's the limit. A word or two about being a trainee, your friends, parents, other graders, they're gonna give you $*** about it, it's true, a 150 a week, that's not a lot of money. Pay them no mind. You need to learn this business and this is the time to to do it.

Once you misgrade enough cards, none of that's gonna matter. Your friends are sh** You tell em you misgraded 25,000 cards last month they're not gonna believe you. F*** them! F** 'em! Parents don't like the life you lead. F** your mom and dad.

Now go home and think about it. Think about whether or not this is really for you. If you decide that it isn't, listen, it's nothing to be embarrassed about. Misgrading cards the PSA way is not for everyone. But if you really want this, you call me on Monday and we'll talk. Just don't waste my f***ing time......Okay, that's it.

[drc]

Much of grading involves authenticating, so I would think quality experience as a dealer, auctioneer or working for an auction house will be relevant. Being a quality card seller on eBay might help.

[Fred]

Adam,

I won't even ask you the process for hiring someone that does the order entry...

The interviewer holds up a picture of a very desirable T206 (won't mention which one) and asks the applicant if they know what it is....of course the interviewee knows what it is, but they deny it anyhow....


In all honesty, I wish there was a board member that is a current grader or former grader so that we could ask them quesitons about their job... I'd really be interested in hearing from people that graded 10+ years ago and within the past 2 years.

[thejuanscards]

I have a real answer to this question, at least BGS. Back in 2001 I had been laid off from my job in the petroleum industry. I was 30 years old and knew that I didn't want to sell oil, gasoline, and propane for a living anymore. While paging through the monthly Beckett, I found a blurb saying that they were looking to hire price guide analysts. I thought, what the hell, and sent them an email with my card experience. I had been selling & buying on ebay since 1997, and before that was running my own monthly email auctions. I started collecting in 1984 and only stopped for a brief time during college.

I got a call from Dan Hitt, who is still the price guide Sports Data Publishing Manager. I did two phone call interviews with him, and although I don't remember a lot of the details, I do remember having to tell him the rookie year of mulitple players from football and baseball. I must have done well, because he invited me to come to Dallas for a face to face (I live in Wisconsin).

Beckett picked up the tab for my flights, plus a great hotel Friday-Sunday. My interview was on Friday. There was also a rental car waiting for me at the airport when I got to Dallas. So, I make my way to Beckett headquarters, and am given a great tour of the facility, including the grading room. I met Bill Sutherland and a few others who are no longer with the company, and then did my formal interview. The part of the face to face that I really remember was when I had to highlight cards from different sets. Dan picked 5-6 vintage sets from different years in football and baseball, and I was to highlight with a marker the cards that I thought should be tracked on a monthly basis to track actual value. I don't remember which sets I had to mark, but I do remember highlighting the rookie cards, short prints, high numbers, Hall of Famers that had been in the news recently, Mantles, Mays, Koufax, etc...you get the idea.

Four of us them piled into Dan Hitt's recently purchased Cadillac, and they took me out and wined and dined me. They introduced me to Pappadeaux's restaraunt, which we don't have up north, and then we bar hopped and took in some great live music. Then next two days were on my own to explore the city of Dallas, so I explored The Edgeman's retail store. That alone was a great experience.

The next week I got a call from Dan with an offer to become a Beckett Football Price Guide Analyst. Starting pay was $35k per year, and they offered $3 to $4k to pay for moving expenses. I had told my new wife to pack her bags if the offer was in the $60k range, so I declined the offer. Part of the deal was that I would not be allowed to ever sell another card on ebay or though any other outlet.

So, after turning down the price guide analyst position, he then offered me a BGS grader position for the same pay. Again, I turned it down.

I still have mixed feelings about turning down the job offers. Although the pay was not where I wanted it to be, I know I would have enjoyed the opportunity. As it goes, I am now entering my 11th year in the Pharmaceutical industry, and still spend all my free time dealing in vintage cards on ebay and COMC.

John
thejuanscards

[vintagecpa]

That is a remarkable story. Thanks for sharing. It is always fun to dream of turning your favorite hobby into your 8-5 job.