1960 Fleer Grove/Collins Martin Back Help Please

[budob]

I am fortunate enough to have this card, just back from PSA for authentication and grading:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...:X:AAQ:US:1123

The PSA Population report doesn't appear to list this particular variation on the card - the only "Canceled" version shown in the Pop Report is titled "Joe Tinker.. Martin back - Canceled".

Is the card I have yet another variation which PSA has not placed in their Pop Report?

Also, my impression is that "Canceled" means there should be a hole in the card somewhere - might this card just be mislabeled?

I'd appreciate any and all insights

Bud Obermeyer

[budob]

Sorry, link is bad:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lefty-Grove-John-Martin-Back-1960-Fleer-80-PSA-Good-2-Boston-Red-Sox-Collins-/220906656171?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item336f1011ab

[Griffins]

this looks like another PSA label screwup.
Your card isn't cancelled- the cancelled ones have a huge notch out of the bottom. Yours is also obviously Grove/Martin, not Collins/Martin.
PSA often did not list them as cancelled early on, so it's not surprising the pop report is screwed up. They also didn't downgrade them for being cancelled, which is why there is a PSA 7 or 8 with a huge gouge in it.
In the last 11 years I've seen Grove/Martin cancelled, handcut, and factory cut.
I've seen Collins/Martin and Tinker/Martin hand cut only- they seem a lot scarcer than Grove/Martin, although all 3 are among the scarcest post war regular issue cards.
Bottom line is toss out the pop report on this card, it really doesn't mean anything. I'd much rather have yours that is uncancelled than a cancelled one with a higher numerical grade.
Best of luck with the auction.

[budob]

Thanks for the info Anthony!

[ALR-bishop]

The cancelled one are not nearly as nice as the hand cut ones. I have not seen one of the factory cut cards Anthony mentions but agree the Grove is the most common on the 3. I had thought 6 combos of the 3 cards were possible, 3 hand cut and 3 cancelled ( based on SCD) but maybe if Anthony is correct only the Grove can be found cancelled. That would make only 5 versions ? I have the Grove hand cut version

[Griffins]

Al- here's mine, uncancelled and factory cut. A bit oversized and obviously oc
http://photos.imageevent.com/griffins/expansionera/mainstreamissues/1960fleer/large/80.tif.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/griffins/expansionera/mainstreamissues/1960fleer/large/80back.tif.jpg

[ncinin]

I sent Bud an IM earlier, but I had a Grove uncanceled and factory cut back in 1997. In fact this example was issued in a pack.

In 1997 a local shop who handled almost all new cards had a lady walk in with a stack of 1960 Fleer and a Grove/martin card was in the stack. The #80 card had a wax stain on the back of the card as well.

I sold the card at the 1997 National and the card was slabbed a PSA 6oc.

[ALR-bishop]

Great card Anthony. Much nicer than my hand cut

[budob]

Thanks to all for my continuing education :)

[Griffins]

auction ended early. bummer.

[sando69]

the seller canceled all (three) bids and ended the auction early because: "card being returned to PSA for label correction."

[budob]

I sent the card back to PSA for relabeling. I don't expect the label to be accurate when it returns, but it will be perhaps less inaccurate :)

[budob]

The card is back in my hands relabeled:

Lefty Grove
Martin Back - Hand Cut

They did not have a qualified grader examine the cut on the card.

I think I'll just give up and sell it as is.

I appreciate all the insights received!

[Griffins]

did they give it an "authentic" grade?

[budob]

No, it still shows Grade 2. Images:

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa228/nwestphoto/cards/grove0108f.jpg

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa228/nwestphoto/cards/grove60fpsab.jpg


I have sold the card and it's en route today to the buyer.

[budob]

There were 5 people staying in contact with me by email expressing an interest in this card while it was back at PSA for relabeling. Two of those people have expressed disappointment (1 anger) that we sold the card without giving them an opportunity. Only 2 of those 5 who stayed in contact with me had made any offer, and they were both lower than the 2 highest offers I had received shortly after closing the listing and sending the card back to PSA for relabeling.

There were 5 people emailing me steadily expressing interest in the card while it was back at PSA. It arrived back in my hands on Saturday afternoon and my son and I were uncertain about how we would proceed with selling it. On Sunday one of those 5 people made us a specific offer SUBSTANTIALLY higher then any previous offers we'd had by email and we decided to acknowledge that gentleman's willingness to step up and we accepted his offer.

The alternatives we had were to either reject the offer and risk putting it up for ebay auction or to hold a private sale/auction which again would jeopardize that substantial offer we had in hand. We decided, whether rightly or wrongly in other people's opinions, to go with the very substantial offer we had in hand.

I am sorry that our decision was disappointing to those other 4 people, and perhaps to others unknown to us as well.

Best regards,
Bud

[ALR-bishop]

It was your card. You were entitled to sell it to whoever and however you wanted.

[doug.goodman]

I agree completely, congrats on your sale.
Doug

[Griffins]

Gotta go with the strong offer, congrats on the sale.