View Full Version : The making of - "Handbook To US Early Candy and Gum Cards" - Egan, 1969
The history of the hobby is fascinating to many of us. The "HANDBOOK TO U.S. EARLY CANDY AND GUM BASEBALL ISSUES" Egan, 1969, is one of the classic works of early hobbyists. To those that might not know, Richard Egan set out, with some other collectors, to detail each set and each card in the American Card Catalog's "E" section, where they pertained to baseball players only. (The ACC listed all the sets together with rudimentary information and value of each). These collectors were going to change the numbering system of the Candy (E) cards in the ACC too. The baseball issues would be segregated from other early candy issues. And last but not least, the original plan was to have a picture of a front and back of each card. The Handbook, and these unique letters will explain the reasoning behind it's existence, details of how cards were check-listed and the new catalog numbers moving forward. Since we mostly use the original ACC#'s today it doesn't seem like the new numbering scheme stuck. Regardless, it is an interesting subject and this thread will go through the entire initial origination process of the key people on the Handbook project Richard Egan, Buck Barker and Dick Dobbins. This Handbook was from one of a few collections of hobby publications acquired recently.
http://luckeycards.com/egan1frontpageofhandbook.jpg
teetwoohsix
12-04-2011, 08:35 AM
Great score Leon !! I am also a fan of the hobby history myself, this would be a great read. Thanks for posting this.
Sincerely, Clayton
Leon,
How many pages are in that publication?
Great score Leon !! I am also a fan of the hobby history myself, this would be a great read. Thanks for posting this.
Sincerely, Clayton
Hi Fred
The Handbook is a great read. The documents I will sharing are beyond that, imo. As stated, I want this to be a chronologically correct thread and what's coming is really neat and will be in order. Intermittent comments are welcomed. best regards
FrankWakefield
12-04-2011, 10:21 AM
Fred, Mr. Egan numbered the pages so that the cover depicted above is page 1. The inside back cover is an index, and it has page 83 on it. the outside back cover is blank, and would be page 84. Mr. Egan's Handbook is quite interesting, reading it enables someone to understand Mr. Burdick's system a bit better, and to understand what was known about the cards back in 1969. Leon's copy above, with the inscription, is a true treasure.
more in the chronology from before the Handbook was even thought about until it's first inspiration (shown before but goes in this thread)....and since Dick Dobbins contributed (and there are these docs and more to show it) I want to get this Jan., 1966 letter in too.
http://luckeycards.com/egan4dobbinsjan1966letter.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/egan4dobbinsjan1966letter2.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/egan2catalogsalesletter.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/egan3comptemplating.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/egan3contemplating2.jpg
NonSportDaniel
12-04-2011, 12:23 PM
This is great; I have been after this book for a while and have never been able to come across a copy.
The only Egan item in my collection is a copy of the World Tobacco Index that passed through his.
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/PancakeBunny_photos/Reference%20material/Worldtobaccoindex71E011.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/PancakeBunny_photos/Reference%20material/Worldtobaccoindex71DF75.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/PancakeBunny_photos/Reference%20material/Worldtobaccoindex71DFD4.jpg
Leon,
This is GREAT stuff. I hope you intend to scan the whole publication into this thread. Thanks for sharing. I'm not sure about the other posters but I find this stuff fascinating. There's just not a lot of material like this available.
Leon,
This is GREAT stuff. I hope you intend to scan the whole publication into this thread. Thanks for sharing. I'm not sure about the other posters but I find this stuff fascinating. There's just not a lot of material like this available.
Hi Fred
There are several bits of correspondence back and forth which will be posted before I need to make a decision on how much of the original handbook to post. It could be the whole thing or some portion of it, just not sure yet. We'll see how it goes. You are welcome on the sharing of it. There is lots more to come and I will put new pieces out every few days or so. Then after this is done we'll start back on the Card Collectors Bulletins. best regards
Dear Buck, Thanks for the rapid reply.....(will only stay one day :))
http://luckeycards.com/egan5septeganletter.jpg
TT40391
12-05-2011, 12:01 PM
This looks fantastic! I can't wait to see more.
Tony
There are only several more letters but here is one of them.....**note T206 proofs mentioned at the end.
http://luckeycards.com/egan6eganletternov1966letter.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/egan6eganletternov1966letter2.jpg
teetwoohsix
12-06-2011, 08:48 AM
This stuff is excellent. In one of the letters he mentions "T206 booklet". I wonder what that is.
I'd love to see the strip card/T206 printers proof he's talking about.
Thanks again for posting this Leon-
Sincerely, Clayton
This stuff is excellent. In one of the letters he mentions "T206 booklet". I wonder what that is.
I'd love to see the strip card/T206 printers proof he's talking about.
Thanks again for posting this Leon-
Sincerely, Clayton
I don't have it in hand right now but he might be referring to Heitman's, T206 Monster booklet.
teetwoohsix
12-06-2011, 08:57 AM
I don't have it in hand right now but he might be referring to Heitman's, T206 Monster booklet.
Yeah, I think you're right Leon. Thanks again for posting these letters, very fun to read this stuff.
Sincerely, Clayton
tedzan
12-06-2011, 09:16 AM
I don't have it in hand right now but he might be referring to Heitman's, T206 Monster booklet.
"The Monster" by Bill Heitman was published in 1980.
Leon
Have you had a chance to read if Egan documents where the American Caramel Co. cards were printed ?
My research suggests in the greater Philadelphia area....but, I have not been able to pinpoint the printer.
Thanks and great stuff,
TED Z
barrysloate
12-06-2011, 09:17 AM
I pulled out my copy of "The Monster" and it's copyrighted 1980. Was there ever an earlier printing? Probably not, so that could not be the booklet being cited.
teetwoohsix
12-06-2011, 10:04 AM
I pulled out my copy of "The Monster" and it's copyrighted 1980. Was there ever an earlier printing? Probably not, so that could not be the booklet being cited.
That's why I was wondering about what booklet he was refering to- but I didn't know how old Mr. Heitman is and wondered if Mr. Egan knew of it as a work in progress in the 60's? It'd be interesting to try to figure this one out.
Sincerely, Clayton
tedzan
12-06-2011, 10:23 AM
That's why I was wondering about what booklet he was refering to- but I didn't know how old Mr. Heitman is and wondered if Mr. Egan knew of it as a work in progress in the 60's? It'd be interesting to try to figure this one out.
Sincerely, Clayton
I have known Bill Heitman since the early 1980's. He wrote his book in the late 1970's with Dennis Eckes (the publisher), "The Monster" was in print in 1980.
Bill Heitman was a young guy, when he started collecting T206 cards. He inherited his love for these cards from his Dad. Along with hobby veteran's (Larry
Fritsch, Irv Lerner, Lew Lipset, Frank Nagy, etc.), Bill collected T206's and researched these cards throughout the 1970's.
I think Bill is in his 60's.
TED Z
teetwoohsix
12-06-2011, 10:35 AM
I have known Bill Heitman since the early 1980's. He wrote his book in the late 1970's with Dennis Eckes (the publisher), "The Monster" was in print in 1980.
Bill Heitman was a young guy, when he started collecting T206 cards. He inherited his love for these cards from his Dad. Along with hobby veteran's (Larry
Fritsch, Irv Lerner, Lew Lipset, Frank Nagy, etc.), Bill collected T206's and researched these cards throughout the 1970's.
I think Bill is in his 60's.
TED Z
Thanks Ted Z. That rules out "The Monster". Very interesting- I wonder what the booklet was. Even more so, I wish I could see that strip they're talking about.
Sincerely, Clayton
ethicsprof
12-06-2011, 10:54 AM
you're quite the scholar. These documents are a fascinating read as we continue to illuminate the historical trajectory of this remarkable vintage
baseball card world.
it reminds me of my early days when the old Professors from Marburg and
Leipzig would come to class and insist on Die geschichte der forschung.
You've offered us quite an enticing die geschichte der forschung, Leon, ole buddy.
best,
barry
Hey Guys
Thanks for the comments and kind words. I am intrigued by this stuff too. Ted- I am not sure it says where they felt E121 were printed. I haven't seen that yet but I truthfully am reading this as I post it :). Kind of keeps the suspense for me and fills my "laziness" quota all in one. Here is what Buck had to say in late November, 1966....
http://luckeycards.com/egan7buckletter1966nov.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/egan7buckletter1966nov2nd.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/egan7buckletter1966nov3rd.jpg
Here is a Dick Dobbins letter to Richard Egan, cc'd Buck on it. I hope folks interested in E121 will read the previous one posted too. best regards (this is a few days out of order and I might adjust them later..)
http://luckeycards.com/egan8dobbinsletter1966nov.jpg
Rickyy
12-13-2011, 12:21 PM
Thanks for the great read Leon! Also brought back memories of meeting Dick Dobbins out here in N. Calif. I sure miss him he was a very nice man.
Ricky Y
Egan's Dec. 1966 letter to Buck- (I tried to make the pages a bit darker so they are easier to read)
http://luckeycards.com/egan9egandec66letter.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/egan9egandec66letter2.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/egan9egandec66letter3.jpg
1/1/1967 - Didn't know Zeenuts existed till the '40s- Buck
http://luckeycards.com/egan10letterjan167barker.jpg
.
.
edhans
12-19-2011, 10:06 AM
I'd love to see the E90-1 discussions.
I'd love to see the E90-1 discussions.
The end of the personal correspondence is almost here. I think there might be 1-2 more letters. After that I will take requests to see other information in this prototype book. We need to remember the more that was known about a set at the time this was done, the less new info there will be. I think there are some pages on E90-1 that probably didn't make the final cut so those would be things not seen before.
teetwoohsix
12-20-2011, 08:37 AM
These letters are amazing, thanks again for posting them Leon.
Regarding the letter in post#21- He talks about being suspicious about the second D-327 Wambsganss card. Does anyone know what he is suspicious about regarding this "second" Wambsganss card?
In the same letter it's also intersting that he wanted to throw all the unnumbered W-501's into the W-575's. I'm amazed at how much detailed knowledge these collectors had back in a day with none of the modern technology that we have today. How did they keep up with all of these issues? Major dedication........
Sincerely, Clayton
toppcat
12-20-2011, 03:09 PM
It's hard enough figuring out E and W cards even with modern technology. The original compilers amaze me, especially the ones who did before photocopying became commonplace.
teetwoohsix
12-21-2011, 08:16 AM
It's hard enough figuring out E and W cards even with modern technology. The original compilers amaze me, especially the ones who did before photocopying became commonplace.
+1
There are quite a few handwritten notes left that have not been posted but most are merely check-listing and giving minute idiosyncrasies to each of the caramel sets. Posted here is what Egan and his cohorts hoped to do with this Handbook, which was to literally renumber the American Card Catalog "E" sports candy cards and separate them from the rest. Since we are still using the American Card Catalog numbering it seems as though this herculean effort, while it was a great accomplishment in check-listing the series', did not accomplish what it was intended to. If there are specific requests to see detailed info on the sets I will be glad to post those pages or answer questions where the Handbook is concerned. We will eventually put this thread in the Ne54 Forum Archive Center (upper right icon) so it is here permanently for reference. I am including a list of contributors to this handbook which was at the back of the Handbook. I know we have at least one board member from this list who still posts. best regards
http://luckeycards.com/egan11appendi1x.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/egan11appendi2x.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/egan11appendi3x.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/egan11appendi4x.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/egan11appendi5x.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/egan11appendi6x.jpg
ethicsprof
12-27-2011, 10:29 AM
I see Steve Mitchell's name on the list and must say that I'm pleased.
He's a prince of a fellow and one of the great gentlemen in the history of the hobby. His serving as editor of one of the hobby's early periodicals was a remarkable achievement. I believe I remember seeing Barker,Nagy, a precocious Olberman, and a number of others with brief articles or comments.
And the name of that hobby publication is:::::
best,
barry
After about 12 yrs I thought I might bump this thread as a lot of members probably haven't seen it. Enjoy..
.
frohme
10-25-2023, 09:50 AM
Thanks, Leon!
rhettyeakley
10-25-2023, 10:20 AM
Blast from the past post! 🤣
Speaking of Dick Dobbins…not too many collectors can claim to be part of hobby history but also be collected within said hobby! Dick was in the background as a young man in the 1949 Sommer & Kaufmann card Of team trainer Doc Hughes.
ocjack
10-25-2023, 11:25 AM
Blast from the past post! 🤣
Speaking of Dick Dobbins…not too many collectors can claim to be part of hobby history but also be collected within said hobby! Dick was in the background as a young man in the 1949 Sommer & Kaufmann card Of team trainer Doc Hughes.
I never knew that. How cool is that!
trdcrdkid
10-25-2023, 08:58 PM
I see Steve Mitchell's name on the list and must say that I'm pleased.
He's a prince of a fellow and one of the great gentlemen in the history of the hobby. His serving as editor of one of the hobby's early periodicals was a remarkable achievement. I believe I rememberhttps://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?p=1683408 seeing Barker,Nagy, a precocious Olberman, and a number of others with brief articles or comments.
And the name of that hobby publication is:::::
best,
barry
Sports Collectors’ Journal. I have a complete run of the 15 issues that Steve published, in several different formats. Steve is still active in the hobby and on this board 12 years after Barry Arnold wrote the above.
In this thread from 2017 I posted most of the first issue of Sports Collectors’ Journal from July 1967, right after Steve graduated from high school.
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?p=1683408