Churchill & Denison National Nine

[wolf2039]

Hi Net 54ers -

I am interested in bidding on this item -- the 1865 Churchill & Denison National Nine -- which is part of the current SCP auction. However, I have never seen it up for auction or sale before and don't know anything about it. I was hoping that the Net 54 crowd might help me understand how common it is, how desirable it is to 19th Century collectors and if you have an opinion about its value, that, too. I've always wanted a Peck & Snyder Red Stockings card and this seems like a reasonable alternative. Thanks!

http://www.scpauctions.com/LotImages/17/17198a_lg.jpeg

[bcbgcbrcb]

Brian:

BTW this post really belongs on the main board and not the BST section.

There are others on the board who possess much more expertise that I do when it comes to 19th Century items but I have never seen it before either and believe that it is a safe bet to be much rarer then the Cincy Peck & Snyder. Of course, demand is a major factor in price and I have never heard of any of the players listed on this card, maybe others have. This lack of recognition may keep the value down somewhat.

[Old Hoss]

A few minutes on Google should answer most of your questions about both the cdv and the team.

I find with things that are closer to the memorabilia side, like this, that the value really depends on how much you want it.

Charles

[GaryPassamonte]

I know of one other example of this CdV and I own it. I acquired it in a Mastro auction in 2008. The price at that time was about $4800. There are very few earlier baseball team CdVs. The 1860-61 Atlantics and the circa 1864 Resolutes come to mind. I can't come up with other earlier ones right now. Maybe other board members can help on this one.

[Leon]

Anyone know why these are graded AUT? I have seen TPGs grade something AUT, occasionally, when they just don't know enough about them. Not sure if that is the case here is the reason I ask. Neat CDV's btw.....

[bcbgcbrcb]

Leon:

I believe that SGC typically goes with an "Authentic" grade on any item that does not have catalogued/standard-sized measurements as they would have nothing to compare the item to. I have a number of cabinet cards and the like and they are all basically "Authentics". The Peck & Snyder Cincy may be an exception as they have handled a number of those and could have a very good idea what the measurements should be.

[barrysloate]

Isn't this team actually the Nationals of Albany?

[Old Hoss]

Barry: yes, they are the Nationals of Albany as far as I know.

Here are three of the links I was alluding to in my other post (sorry for coming off as curt in my first post...I was in a bit of a rush before):

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=83580 (the price, with BP was 4500)

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2007/870.html

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2010/1143.html

Charles

[barrysloate]

Thanks Charles. Since the team name Nationals is so generic, it would be nice to see Albany somewhere on the label.

[GaryPassamonte]

I have seen CdVs graded numerically or as authentic, with no real consistency. Since CdVs are generally about 2.5 x 4 inches, I see no good reason not to grade them numerically, if there is no evedence of trimming. Cards such as Old Judges varied in size at production and are numerically graded, for example.
Barry- I don't think the graders really knew this team was called the Nationals of Albany. If the research isn't shown to them at the time of submission, they really don't do any themselves. They just make the most obvious label, right or wrong.
Attached is my companion piece to the Nationals CdV. It seems there are at least two known.

[barrysloate]

I agree Gary, but isn't research part of what they do? If they called me, they would have had the correct answer.