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GKreindler
10-26-2011, 04:54 PM
Hey everyone,

I've been thinking about something for a while, and I thought you guys on the board might be perfect to broach the subject with. The only problem is that I'm having quite a hard time articulating it, so if it rambles for a little bit, I apologize. And certainly if you make it to the end and have no clue what the hell I'm trying to say or ask, I again apologize.

So, in our hobby, names like Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Ty Cobb, Mickey Mantle, Ted Williams and Jackie Robinson ring pretty loudly. Being some of the greatest players to ever wear spikes, in terms of collectability, they'll always be well-known, and highly sought after. Also, they're many of you who actually had the privilege of seeing some of those players play in person, be it at the beginning or in the twilight of their respective careers. In a way, many of you grew up with them, collecting their baseball cards, watching them on the field, following their box scores, and even hearing other people spin vivid stories about their profound talents.

Now, it's probably safe to say that there aren't many people around anymore who have seen Gehrig or Ruth (and plenty of the other deadball era players) in person, and I would imagine that each day, that number gets smaller and smaller. Surely, most of that number has nothing to do with this industry either. But, the spirit of these great names is somewhat kept alive through that same industry.

What I'm curious about is, what do you think is going to become of baseball history in another 50 years? How are people going to remember the game? Those of you who got to see Mantle play, I assume you tell your kids about the man and the thrill of seeing him on the field. Even, if you just missed his career, your father or grandfather probably spun some tales for you about the Mick, and maybe even their other heroes of the past. But at what point do these stories become - pardon the expression - antiquated? When a kid gets a game-worn jersey patch or something in a pack of baseball cards, is he/she really going to appreciate what they have in their hands, or is it just going to be another card that's worth a lot of money?

In essence, I find myself wondering who I'm going to tell my kids about. Granted, I don't have any right now, and even if I did, I would imagine that they'd still be years away from actually appreciating the game on that kind of level. By then, am I going to speak of the great Mattingly, Jeter or Rivera - the players that I grew up with? Or maybe what little I can expound upon the careers of Mantle and Maris - the guys my father grew up with? Or, are they just going to look on the Internet and in books for that kind of stuff? I mean, if you wanted to learn about Derek Jeter fifty years from now, you can be sure that you'd have hundreds of games, interviews and everything else at your fingertips. With all of that media, you can almost relive his career from the very beginning, and very easily place them in the context of their eras.

So, where do the hallowed names of Gehrig and Ruth fit in for future generations? I mean, 'yes', we'll still have the artifacts, books and cards, but what gets lost in translation? What will my kid's impressions be of them? And my kid's kids? Are they just going to be these old figures with famous names that don't even seem real?

I suppose for collectors, it's rather different. Nostalgia runs in our blood, and these people are more alive to us than some of our real-life friends (ain't that the truth). But obviously as collectors, we only represent a small portion of the population. And the way the curb of entertainment is going, I feel like the fans who are getting into baseball are fewer and fewer. In the under-40 demographic, the sport can't be doing all that well, can it? I guess in America, something like football or basketball is just sexier. It makes for a more exciting thing to watch, or even play on an Xbox.

I guess what I'm getting at is, does this all mean that the mass appreciation of this great sport on such a deep level die with us? If so, can it be prevented?

That's all I got.

Graig

vthobby
10-26-2011, 07:48 PM
Graig,

Great questions and alot to ponder. Speaking from my experience, I grew up in the 1970s-1980s and lived to open packs of baseball cards and try and put sets together. I got my baseball tv fix from Mel Allen's "This Week in Baseball" and went to card shows regularly in the 80s and 90s. Most of my deep love for the game came from reading books like Ritter's Glory of Their Time's etc...

What your question boils down to I think is how people are raising their children and what they are exposed to. My son is heavily involved in sports but I think he may know more actual MLB names from his Wii or his Playstation!

Personally, I try and involve him with my letter writing and autograph requests to NFL and MLB players from the 1950s to present and we still get some beautiful letters from former players so this helps a bit.

But the more I see of his interests and those of kids in his school, it does not appear there is a universal knowledge of sports history or interest to learn about the history of sports even.

Who besides me now that I recollect, will think that the 1978 Topps Doug Ault card was the coolest around? :o

I think that you will always have your sports history buffs and lovers but those traits need to be passed on to younger generations. Not as easy as it sounds unfortunately.

Good night Sibby Sisti wherever you are! (with my apologies to the The Great American Baseball Card Flipping, Trading, and Bubble Gum Book by Brendan C. Boyd and Fred C. Harris) the second greatest book behind "Glory of their Times!" ;)

Great topic Craig!

Mike

71buc
10-26-2011, 10:12 PM
I think baseball is far too ingrained in our history and culture to worry about it. My third grade daughter came home from school today asking me about Satchel Paige, Jackie Robinson, Pee Wee Reese, and Branch Rickey. She is learning about the Negro Leagues and was very interested to know more. She also asked if I had any Toni Stone cards. I said who? She then explained to me that Toni Stone was a female second baseman who played for the Clowns after Hank Aaron left the Negro Leagues. I learn from my children everyday. She asked if she could take my Jackie Robinson, Pee Wee Reese, and Paige cards to school to share with her class. I swallowed hard and agreed to let her do so. I showed her the cards and she asked me why the Paige had brown stains on it unlike the others that were in much better condition. I explained how I had traded three chocolate milks for it in the fourth grade and accidently spilled my own milk on it. She immediately said that made the card much better. I asked her why and she said because it came from when you were a kid like me. Baseball is a large part of who I am and she knows that I am passionate about all things baseball. Because of this she knows that the game and it's history is important to me so she is interested as well. I doubt she knows a homer from a touchdown. However,she does listen with interest to my incessant ramblings about Hank Aaron and Roberto Clemente. Thankfully she knows more about who they were as men more than who they were as players. If you ask her she will tell you Aaron was brave in the face of prejudice and that Clemente died helping others. It is up to those of us who love the game and it's history to share our passion with the next generation. Nonetheless, I will likely tag along with her and my cards for my own peace of mind as she habitually loses her own shoes

Runscott
10-26-2011, 10:29 PM
I wouldn't worry too much about it. This definitely was an issue generations back, but we've got too many interviews with old players for it to be an issue anymore. Pick up a copy of the 5-disc "Glory of Their Times" set - you will feel much more assured of this after listening.

One of the things I found very interesting about those interviews was one of the 't206-era players' describing what babies "today's" players are (meaning players in the early '60s), compared to the early nineteenth century players. And of course, we think the players of Koufax' day were much tougher than today's.

Can you imagine what men who were part of the 10-player teams of the mid-1800s would have thought of the wimps wearing gloves in the early 1900's? Those guys knew that if they left the game due to something as minor as a twisted ankle or broken toe, they might likely lose their spot to the 10th player.

As far as today's history buffs, it's obvious from conversing with guys on this board that those qualities begin at a very early age. My kids had no interest in baseball, and believe me - I tried to get them into it. But they do remember me taking them to see Nolan Ryan when they were around 4.

perezfan
10-26-2011, 10:49 PM
I think that the lack of TV clips and available footage serve to enhance the legend of the truly great early players (LaJoie, Cobb, Ruth, Gehrig, Mathewson, Johnson, Young, etc.)

But it hurts the more marginal players and non-HOFers. This is a fascinating topic, and I think about it all the time. There's no question that many of the mid-tier players of the 40s - 80s are already long-forgotten. There's just no vehicle for keeping their names and images top-of-mind (other than to the most hard-core fans and historians).

As 71buc states above... they are keeping the names of Paige, Robinson, Reese and Rickey relevant and alive. But the less "storied" players and non-Hall of Famers will inevitably fade into obscurity. There's not much we can do to stop that, and it makes me sad.

It's true of the entertainment industry as well. Few people under 20 can identify John Wayne, but they all know Lil Wayne. My kids and their friends (who I've tried to educate) probably cannnot identify Bob Hope, Humphrey Bogart, Clark Gable, Spencer Tracy, WC Fields, The Marx Bros, or either of the Hepburns. Not to mention the character actors and lesser stars of the day.

It's pretty sad that Snookie, The Situation, Simon Cowell and the Kardashians are better known today than any of the legends listed above. The only consolation is that they'll be forgotten upon the next generation. Guess that's my rant for the day :p

steve B
10-27-2011, 07:50 AM
Excellent question!

My own experience has been that I had little interest in baseball till 5th grade. My father coached track and basketball at the highschool, and also little league baseball. My interest was mainly going to the games and playing on the playground stuff. Or a real treat, carrying the equipment bag to the house next door where it was kept. The best thing was dragging the mesh thing around to smooth the infield before the game.

Then I moved to a new town, just in time for the end of the 73 season. Last year for Mays, Aaron chasing the HR record, Ryan striking out pretty much everyone....74 I went to my first Major league ballgame, plus the Hank Aaron specials showed me there were older cards and what they looked like.

77 - moved to another new place. Near Boston, and with a store in town that sold mostly sports memorabilia. Then the 78 Red Sox season, with Fenway right nearby!

It was all timing I suppose, had the first move been a couple years later I probably would have missed the excitement. Had the second move been later or elsewhere I'd have missed more, and without exposure to the hobby.

Would I have eventually picked up some baseball history and become a fan? Probably, dads a big Red Sox fan, and a fan of all sports, so I'd have gotten intersted at some point, but maybe not in the same way. (One of my early memories is of him calling me in to watch figure 8 stock car racing on tv and telling me I'd probably never see it again since it was so crazy and a fading sport)

Everyone has to come to baseball history their own way. Somewhere out there is a kid looking up who this Reggie guy was that hit 3 in a WS game before Pujols, and Ruth? And the other stuff, Matsui he knows, but Molitor?

That's how it begins, and how it continues.

Steve B