'49 Leaf Satchel Paige, real or not?

[dougscats]

Was this Leaf Satchel Paige too good to be true?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/320765445248?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

It looked real to me, but I was hesitant; the seller didn't have many sales and had a couple of red flags in his feedback. Still, it looked real, so I underbid and was second best.
[Seller also had a nice Musial that I also underbid on.]
While I have a number of '49 Leafs, I'm no expert, and I was afraid it wasn't authentic. I'm curious now, and I'd like to learn what to look for if it is a dupe, so I'd ask for the board's expertise:

What do you think?

Thanks.

Doug

[bcbgcbrcb]

Not an expert on these but my gut feeling would be no, not good.

[3-2-count]

Fake!!

[Brendan]

You're lucky you were the underbidder.

[ThoseBackPages]

this card is my current "white whale".

that listing screams FAKE to me... horrible seller feedback as well

[calvindog]

Not even a close call. Very fake.

[barrysloate]

When the winning bid on a 49 Leaf Paige is $113, that should tell you all you need to know.

[dougscats]

Thanks for the replies, and I'll consider myself lucky [not winning].

But no one yet has told me how he can tell that card is a fake.
And that's what I'd like to know, so I won't make such a mistake again.

Doug

[bobbyw8469]

To me, the colors seem off, and that ring (edge-wear?) around the top and sides of the card would be cause for concern. It looks artificial, as I have never seen a card age like that.

[3-2-count]

Okay, here's my reasoning:
1. No scan of the back provided. "Huge red flag"!
2. The consistent wear on all four sides is very obvious made to look like a worn authentic card
3. The color is off
4. And finally his location scares the hell out of me if I had to track him down? (St-Gérad des Laurentides, QC, Canada)
These are just my feelings, others may have more.

[tedzan]

There is no certain way of telling from that front scan if it is an original 1949 LEAF card, or a fake. However, here are a few pointers for you......

1st....demand to see a back scan of a card of such value and scarcity as this one.

2nd....Cards of such value ($500 -25,000 depending on its grade) will be invariably graded. A Non-Graded 1949 LEAF Paige is highly suspect.

3rd....CHECK-OUT the seller's feedback


Here is the Paige from my 1949 LEAF set. I'm not a fan of graded cards; therefore, my card is un-graded. Should I ever decide to sell this card,
I will have SGC grade it.


<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/paige2.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/paigeb.jpg" alt="[linked image]">


Best of luck in your quest for this card, as it is one of the toughest post-WWII cards to find.


TED Z

[gareterag]

A few months back I purchased one and it turns out it was actually Teds scans and the seller never had the card and I did not notice until I already paid for the card.

Be careful of non graded and even graded as its best to purchase from someone with very high feedback or someone from this board.

Best luck
Garet

[FUBAR]

Besides the colors, look at the way the red and yellow borders line up on the fake vs the real one.... quit common for fakes to line up much nicer then the real ones.

[dougscats]

There is no certain way of telling from that front scan if it is an original 1949 LEAF card, or a fake.

Thanks, Ted, for that. And thank you all; the circumstancial evidence that you give is compelling, and there's some good advice in general that I'll bear in mind for the future.

Can one tell if it's a fake from the back of the card?
Interestingly enough, I am now being given a "Second Chance" to buy it!

SECOND CHANCE OFFER

1949 Leroy (Satchel) Paige #80 $113.62
$3.99
5h 42m
Buy it now
More actions

eBay note: You have received a Second Chance Offer for this item. Click here to view your offer.

I sent the seller a message, asking him if he were sure the card was authentic, and if he could send me a scan of the back.
I'm sorry I didn't ask sooner, but if I get an answer, I'll let you know.

Doug

[terjung]

Doesn't surprise me in the least that you got a second chance offer. That happens a lot when sellers shill their auction too high. That's another warning sign to add to the mix.

[dougscats]

I agree; it has the smell of a shill. The original winning bidder had only 18 stars feedback, as did the winner of the Musial card [that I was third highest on].

The seller did respond by the way:

I bought it as an original 2 weeks ago at Montréal
I know the card isn't graded so i sell it as unknow
I can only say that this card is amazing ! A great Deal


Charles-
Le 2011-10-03 à 07:37, eBay Member: dougscats a écrit
I again replied, asking him for a scan of the back.

I'm going out for a couple of hours, but will be back before the BIN offer ends, so if any of you have any last thought, please chime in.

And hopefully I'll get an answer as to whether or not one can tell it's a fake from a scan of the back.

Later,

Doug

[tedzan]

Avoid this seller.

His latest posting on ebay are these 4 cards......

1949 LEAF Ted Williams
1941 PLAY BALL Ted Williams
1940 PLAY BALL Shoeless Joe Jackson
1940 PLAY BALL Joe DiMaggio

These are all reprints (again, no back images).
Several years ago a scammer from the Michigan area was reproducing these, and many other vintage star cards (E90's, T206's, and Goudey's).
The front scans of these cards posted on ebay were good enough, in that it was difficult to discern if they were real or fake. However, it is ob-
vious from their backs that they are REPRINTS. I have a 1941 PLAY BALL Joe DiMaggio card from this scammer whose back shows exactly what
I'm talking about.

Notice how this seller attempts to cover himself by stating......"Era: Post-WWII (1942-1980)"

Dooooh......1940, 1941 issues......"Post-WWII (1942-1980)"......this tells us all we need to know !


TED Z

[dougscats]

Thanks, Ted.
He replied that he'd have to wait till tomorrow when he was home to send a scan. I then asked him to extend my time on BIN, till after I'd seen the scan.

It'll be interesting to see if he sends it.

It was also good to hear that you really couldn't tell if it was fake from the front scan, because despite all that's been said I hate to admit that it still looks real to me.
Don't worry; I'm taking all your advice.
If there are any developments, I'll keep you posted.

I have another academic question, though, on a related topic:
If I were to buy a reprint and realize it was a fake after I got it in the mail and examined it [I've been using a pocket microscope for a couple of years and have just bought a new blacklight], wouldn't ebay refund my money if the seller didn't? Doesn't ebay guarantee it?

I've bought a couple of cards that on inspection turned out to be fakes. In all cases thus far, the seller has been apologetic and refunded my money with no problems. But if the seller didn't refund it, wouldn't ebay/paypal?

Thanks again,

Doug

[rainier2004]

Doug:
Just had an issue w/ the bay and heres how it went for me.
Expensive purchase and cards were "not as advertised" (b/c of condition) so ebay forced seller to return money and s/h chanrges immediately b/c it "was not as advertised"...seller refunder but idk what would have happened hadnt they. BUT, this seller emailed you that authenticity is "unknown" and at tjis point I beleive if you buy it, ebay, paypal and your cc company will not back you b/c of thie "unknown"....ie, dont buy "unknown" status cards....be careful Doug, if theres a bad feeling in your gut just walk away and report to net54, ebay, etc. It never cost anything to walk away.

[dougscats]

Thanks for pointing that out, Steve.
The BIN offer will expire in about 15 minutes; whether he extends it or not remains to be seen. I'm not going to buy at this point even if he does, but I'd still like to see a scan of the back.
I'll post it if he does send it to me.

Doug

[tedzan]

What do you think of this 1941 Play Ball Joe D......real or fake ?

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/afake41pbjoed.jpg" alt="[linked image]">


TED Z

[bobbyw8469]

Fake with a capital 'F'!!!! Stay away!

[dougscats]

To tell you the truth, Ted, the colors on that don't look true.

The colors on my PlayBalls are all ... flatter--not so pixillated.
This is true compared to the one that's on ebay, as well:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1941-Play-Ball-Joe-DiMaggio-71-SGC-50-VG-EX-4-/350489759102?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item519ad14d7e

So I'd guess that the one you put up might be a fake
[I'd say guess because I'm not expert enough to be 100% sure].

Doug

[tedzan]

Here is dis-colored back of it. There is no question that it is a fake. Especially, when comparing it with a real one.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/bfake41pbjoed.jpg" alt="[linked image]">
<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/afake41pbjoed.jpg" alt="[linked image]"><img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/1941pbjoedtedwill.jpg" alt="[linked image]">



TED Z

[dougscats]

Seller has emailed me a scan of the back.
I don't know how to forward it to this site; normal cut and paste doesn't work.

I'd have to say that the back looks the same as a normal back with the big exception that it's miscut, being mis-centered and also not at a 90-degree angle--something like you might get, maybe, if you photocopied both the front and back separately and weren't too careful about putting them together.

If anyone knows how to scan it/forward my email to this post, please let me know and I'll do it.

Seller says he will extend my time, but I won't reply till I hear back from some of you.

Thanks.

Doug

[refz]

looks teabagged :)

[jezzeaepi]

12 people have respond that it is a fake and you are still trying to buy it? huh?

[dstraate]

12 people have respond that it is a fake and you are still trying to buy it? huh?

He's not buying it, he's just messing with a crook. A very noble hobby:D