Authentic Ruth Kaywoodie Sign?

[wmullis]

I know this may be asking a lot considering I only have this one photo but can anybody here tell me if this piece is authentic or not? If it is authentic, what would something like this be worth?

If you cannot tell by this photo is there anything I should be looking for to let me know if this is authentic or a reprint?

Thanks

Will

[ruth-gehrig]

I don't believe authentic. Perhaps even a fantasy piece? I don't know for sure. Interested to know what other members believe.

[perezfan]

This particular sign was indeed reproduced, and circulated quite a bit (on Ebay and elsewhere...) I am not positive about yours, but would bet it's a repro. The odds are stacked against it being authentic. A photo of the reverse side would be very helpful in making this determination. Thanks!

[sayhey24]

Another clue that it's a repro or fantasy piece-- you can see right next to it the corner of the frequently reproduced Babe Ruth Old Gold sign.

That said, if it's really cheap, it's a nice looking display piece.


Greg

[oriolesbb6]

A shot of the back would help, but prob a repro. Whats up with the Old Gold sign next to it-same purchases place?

[Tigerden]

IMO-Repro. The Old Gold sign next to it would also be a concern to me. What would be the odds that the seller would have both in an antique store? This is why I would never purchase an advertising sign unless it was being offered by a major auction house. Just too many reproductions. I learned my lesson a few years ago when I won a repro of the Ty Cobb Fan for a Fan piece. Fortunately, I was issued a full refund and chalked it up as a lesson learned.

[barrysloate]

Any of these die cut advertising signs with easels are quite rare; just the way they were constructed suggests that very few could have survived, especially in such nice condition. The fact that so many of them now circulate leads me to believe that they are all reproductions until proven otherwise.

[thecatspajamas]

Is there a generalized way to get a good idea whether one of these is a repro when looking at them? I'm sure that there are clues specific to each type of display/sign, and context is obviously important (as in this case), but is there some detail that is a dead giveaway on most of these? Something about the printing method that can be seen under magnification, fluorescence of the inks or card stock under black light, something like that?

It does seem from reading all the posts that the repros far outnumber the real signs, but unless they are fantasy pieces, the real signs do exist. I've yet to deal with one of these personally, original or repro, but I'm sure I will sooner or later and am wondering if there is a quick way to spot most repros? It would make me a lot less hesitant to handle them if I knew what to look for.

[Robert_Lifson]

The Kaywoody die-cut advertising sign posted above by Will is definitely a fake. In fact, there is no original Kaywoody counter sign featuring Babe Ruth of this type. All of these small Kaywoody counter signs are fakes. They have been intentionally created to cheat people.

Technically they are fantasy pieces (as there is no original of this size) but there is an original much larger cardboard Kaywoody Ruth sign of this very same design that is original and period (circa 1930). I have only ever seen or heard of two examples of the original. The dimensions of the original are approximately 48 inches tall and 19 inches wide. The best of the two examples I have seen was in the Barry Halper Collection ( Lot #2240 in the 1999 Halper Sotheby’s auction). That Kaywoody example was pictured in the Sotheby’s catalog in a huge image that took up most of a full page.

All of the fakes have been made by copying the huge catalog image of the Halper example – using some type of color copier or computer technology to both copy the image and make it just a little larger than the catalog image, so that the quality of the image is still strong, and then mounting the copy on a cardboard backing with an easel attachment added on the back to create a fake “Kaywoody counter sign”). If you check the fakes (including the example posted above), you’ll even be able to match up the many imperfections found on the Halper original with the fakes made from the Sotheby’s catalog image by criminals.

I hope this explanation was not too tedious and I hope this helps someone out there avoid buying one of these fakes that might not otherwise know!

Sincerely,

Robert Lifson

[gnaz01]

Awesome Rob, thanks for the reply. Not tedious at all, very informative.

[wmullis]

Thanks for all of the informative information! I found this item pictured on the website for a semi local antique shop that specializes in tobacco advertising. Everything in their store is tobacco related and this picture was amongst a bunch taken from inside their store. There was no info given for any item specifically and I wanted to be as educated as possible if I was able to get ahold of or visit them. Unfortunately, I don't think the shop exists any longer. The phone number on their website is disconnected and I tried sending them an email but have yet to receive a response...

[Shoeless Moe]

FYI if you purchased this one...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1940-039-s-Kaywoodie-Tobacco-Pipe-Babe-Ruth-Baseball-Gas-Oil-16-034-Sign-/133339051604?hash=item1f0ba07654%3Ag%3AMC0AAOSwZDx eTb%7Ec&nma=true&si=5NDHQpyaFvOK3LcPovznBw8eiSI%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

or are a bidder on this one...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1940s-Kaywoodie-Tobacco-Pipe-Babe-Ruth-Baseball-Gas-Oil-Sign-Yankees/324113975260?hash=item4b76b2c7dc%3Ag%3AZrUAAOSwGIV eeq0Q&LH_Auction=1

[chalupacollects]

ouch...

[Hankphenom]

I can imagine this piece fooling someone who hasn't seen a lot of old paper stuff, including display advertising pieces, but to my eyes all of these repro/fantasy jobs have enough in common that should get picked up on pretty much at first sight: I don't know if it's because they're all being made by the same outfit or because there's a standard faux aging process among the phony manufacturers, but they all have a basic faded yellowing look to them that I suppose is intended to mimic real toning from age and air, and there is also enough lack of clarity and resolution to tip off any but non-collectors of old paper. The backs are also usually too uniformly dirty or stained across the entire surface, intended to look old but just not the way old cardboard that has typically been haphazardly stored in unsafe places gets degraded, with a corner here exposed to a dirt floor or a section soaked in encroaching water, in other words much less uniform than is seen on the fakes.

[clydepepper]

well, I certainly would have been fooled...you guys are the best.

Stay safe n STAY HOME!


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