Likelyhood of New Cards Being Discovered

[old-baseball]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed lately or not so I'll put it out there. With today's world being much smaller than it was even 25 years ago. What's the likelyhood that the founders of the hobby missed a card in one of the major un-numbered sets (T206, T205, Obaks, American Caramel, Old Judge, etc...)? I don't mean minute variances in photos more along the likelyhood of just flat out missed a subject player or pose. If they did when was the last time a player or pose was legitimately added to a set? If a new find was to occur how are they documented or verified? Are there rumors of cards or info on sets that collectors may be holding back?

[Joe_G.]

New Old Judge poses turn up with some regularity. I'll let another board member chime in if he wishes regarding a couple new Old Judge poses that have surfaced over just the last month. However, additions to mainstream 20th century sets would be far more unlikely.

[butcher354435]

I was able to pick this card up not to long ago and believe it may be a new discovery. It comes from a very obscure athletes issue probably from the period of 1913-1914. The issue focuses on the accomplishments from the 1912 Olympics for most of the subjects that are on the known checklist. It is also interesting to note that the Capitol Candy & Cracker Co also had direct ties with the Pacific Coast Biscuit Co. So yes, I believe unknown cards are still out there...

http://photos.imageevent.com/butcher354435/multisportsets/191314capitolcandycrackerco/websize/Capitol%20Candy%20Thorpe.jpg

[Rich Klein]

always be additions and corrections to even static sets. IIRC, in 2007, a player in the T205 set who was originally ID'd as player x was actually player y but they had the same last name and it took almost a century to figure that out.

We'll always be adding to our knowledge, hopefully there will always be some central resevoir to keep everything together. If not, we may go back to the ways of the 70's --- in terms of checklisting and even with technological advantages, that is going to be even tougher 40 years later

Rich

[canjond]

Although uncommon, I believe new players can be discovered. I'd consider the Tango Cobb discovery earlier this year as a new find. Even though one was rumored to exist, noone had ever seen it before.

[egbeachley]

I predict the T231 Fan set will double in size in the next 20 years. If someone finds a collection from a smoker of that brand, it may increase 100-fold.

Wasn't the Pirates set a recent addition?

[Leon]

I predict the T231 Fan set will double in size in the next 20 years. If someone finds a collection from a smoker of that brand, it may increase 100-fold.

Wasn't the Pirates set a recent addition?


Depending on how you count them this has already happened when John Rumirez showed his T231 specimen recently. Many of us knew about it for years as John had told us, but it had not been seen. I don't know about 100x more but I would expect more to be found...as well as most other very rare types. I have always said there is way more unknown to the hobby than most believe. There will be attic finds for the next 100+ yrs. AS far as new players added to well known and popular sets, I believe those will be very rare occurrences.

ps...the recent Pirates set is sort of in this realm too...

[barrysloate]

It will vary from set to set.

For example, you won't find a new player in E93, E94, E95, or E98. Ever.

It would be virtually impossible to find a new player in T205 or T206, although those eight T206 proofs were found with entirely unknown players. But if you're hoping to find a T205 Lajoie, forget it.

In a set like N172, maybe a new California League player could be found, and new poses are likely, but a new major leaguer would be nearly impossible.


But for some sets that we don't know a whole lot about, such a T231, as well as other somewhat obscure issues, new players would be expected.

[scmavl]

I, like Jon, was thinking of the Tango Eggs Cobb. I doubt a new T206 will be showing up, but on some of the more obscure sets? Sure.

[Exhibitman]

New stuff surfaces regularly in a wide variety of card collecting arenas. I'd be surprised to see a new subject in a well established mainstream set (though perhaps not a back-front combo in T cards, as that area still isn't completely proven yet), but definitely not in an issue where there "should" be more cards.

I find new boxing cards all the time. Latest is this Jack Dempsey from Cuba:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/rareboxingcards/websize/Turquinos%20Dempsey%201.jpg

[rhettyeakley]

Still not well understood, the 1939 R-Uncataloged set (that is the tentative name I have given them) has been known about by a few but no more than 15-20 examples of the set are known to exist as of now (not to say that won't increase once it finally gets cataloged and people know what they have sitting in their "misc" box.)
http://www.starsofthediamond.com/uncatferrell.JPG http://www.starsofthediamond.com/uncatfrench.JPG http://www.starsofthediamond.com/uncathack.JPG http://www.starsofthediamond.com/uncatlewis.JPG http://www.starsofthediamond.com/uncatmize.JPG http://www.starsofthediamond.com/uncattravis.JPG

[E93]

Wasn't the Pirates set a recent addition?

If my memory serves me (which it often does not) the Pirate set that sold a few years ago was the basis on which the original checklist was made. It was not a set of new discoveries or completely new group to the hobby, though since the checklist was made (1970s?) a few new additions were made and included in that set including a Matty/dark cap.

JimB

[Bicem]

D380 Joss is relatively new to the hobby, and a great card.

[steve B]

In the more obscure/rare sets there are going to be new discoveries. And once outside of the sports field there are a great number of unknown cards. many t card sets haven't been checklisted well at all, And cards from outside the US aside from the UK and Germany often aren't checklisted. Possibly they aren't well cataloged either, but I don't have a world card index yet

Steve B

[JLange]

Some collectors view newspaper cutout sets as "cards," while others probably never will. There are a number of additions to the catalog that can be made in this area of collecting, as I'm sure other areas could benefit with additional collector interest. This set may have been known to others for quite some time but was only recently catalogued in the last several years.

[E93]

THere were also the really cool popcorn cards that included a Ruth and a few other HOFs that were discovered a few years ago.
JimB

[oldjudge]

As my good friend Joe Gonsowski indicated, new Old Judge poses turn up from time to time. Two new poses(not cropping differences) showed up in the last month or two. I have attached the links below:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=170649772321&si=OYy%252BF51rF%252FgsApCIpyjpckZyOh0%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT

http://www.milehighcardco.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=20360&searchby=3&searchvalue=shreve&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=1&seo=1887-N172-Old-Judge-Lev-Shreve-Ready-To-Hit-SGC-30-GOOD-2

As for a new Old Judge player turning up, it is possible. I believe that there are more California League players left to be discovered. A sheet of Old Judge cards had 24 cards and to date only 19 California League players have been found. Does this definitely mean that there are more players to be found-No, but it certainly raises the possibility. As for players east of the Rockies, I think it is possible for a new player to be found, although less likely. There is an Old Judge glass plate negative known for Wilson-Omaha, and a card of his has yet to be found. Also, there are a few other players who are listed on the cabinet ordering form, but for whom no card has yet been found. So---keep looking. I know I will.

[felada]

It was only a little over a year ago that the Ewing just so was found. I would suspect that it is more likely that a new FBH, yum yum or G&B (spalding a selee are recent examples) would be discovered before a a new OJ player. But who knows, i am still waiting for a one arm dailey to surface

[slidekellyslide]

I was able to pick this card up not to long ago and believe it may be a new discovery. It comes from a very obscure athletes issue probably from the period of 1913-1914. The issue focuses on the accomplishments from the 1912 Olympics for most of the subjects that are on the known checklist. It is also interesting to note that the Capitol Candy & Cracker Co also had direct ties with the Pacific Coast Biscuit Co. So yes, I believe unknown cards are still out there...

http://photos.imageevent.com/butcher354435/multisportsets/191314capitolcandycrackerco/websize/Capitol%20Candy%20Thorpe.jpg

Wow! That Thorpe card is very cool!

[fkw]

Hi Rhett, I had only seen a couple of those 1939 R-Unc. cards before you showed that group above. Very Cool!

One unusual thing I just noticed.... check out this Larry French card below that I had a scan of compared to the bright red one you have :) Looks like there are some nice variations in the printing/cutting on these...

http://centuryoldcards.com/images/1939runcfrenchx2.jpg

[rhettyeakley]

Frank, that is interesting. I have 7 different of these and I have seen 1 or 2 randomly (inluding the French you posted), and the only other ones I have ever heard about are from this former Hunts lot (that went incredibly cheap, as nobody knew what they were looking at at the time.) Notice how my Stanley Hack and theirs share the same image but different cropping & coloring (just like the Larry French cards). These groupings are the only known "groups" that have been found to date. Also notice that all outside of my grouping have a pair of staple holes at top. We've discussed these before but they are very cool and apparently came from in-and-around the Chicago area.
-Rhett

http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=32&lot_num=544&lot_qual=&url_referer=view_lots_items_list.cfm

[JLange]

Apologies to the rightful owner of these, as I do not own the cards, but I sure would like to get an example one day (preferably the Bruce Campbell in the center). I think this was maybe from the Hunt auction?

[ValKehl]

Don't forget the recently discovered D381 Ferguson Bakery Walter Johnson that was sold in Heritage's last major auction.
http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7032&lotNo=80075
Val

[ls7plus]

The more obscure sets have and will continue to see the most new players added, but where we might see some additions to more mainstream sets are in the area of proofs and/or salesman's samples, IMHO (although this might be outside the context of the original thread).

Very nice Mize, Rhett!

Regards,

Larry

[the-illini]

It was only a little over a year ago that the Ewing just so was found. I would suspect that it is more likely that a new FBH, yum yum or G&B (spalding a selee are recent examples) would be discovered before a a new OJ player. But who knows, i am still waiting for a one arm dailey to surface

There is a G&B Selee card?

[Exhibitman]

Still not well understood, the 1939 R-Uncataloged set (that is the tentative name I have given them) has been known about by a few but no more than 15-20 examples of the set are known to exist as of now (not to say that won't increase once it finally gets cataloged and people know what they have sitting in their "misc" box.)
http://www.starsofthediamond.com/uncatferrell.JPG http://www.starsofthediamond.com/uncatfrench.JPG http://www.starsofthediamond.com/uncathack.JPG http://www.starsofthediamond.com/uncatlewis.JPG http://www.starsofthediamond.com/uncatmize.JPG http://www.starsofthediamond.com/uncattravis.JPG

Rhett, what's the sizing on these cards?

[rhettyeakley]

they are 2.375" x 3.375" (or 2-3/8" x 3-3/8"). Nearly modern "standard size"

[rhettyeakley]

There is a G&B Selee card?

He meant Reach not Selee, unless I am mistaken.

[wonkaticket]

I say 100% yes new cards and players to checklists will be added even to some major sets IMO.

Just my two cents.

John

[aljurgela]

I think that a lot of progress has been made in the cataloging of Cuban (and other Latin cards), but there are still a few gaps to be filled. This is mostly thanks to Ryan Christoff.

I think that with time, more and more of these cards will be found. I have a couple of cards that are not in the standard catalog from the 1910 punch series and hope that someday we can have a more complete listing.

Another interesting point is what happens to value as new cards are being discovered. In some cases an item may be too rare for its own good... too obsure for people to care, so new copies of a small issue that effectively "confirm" the issue and drive value of the other cards of the same issue.

I am always wondering what will happen to the Latin cards if new ones are found. Imagine what a Josh Gibson card issued in his playing days would do the the value of the Toleteros Josh Gibson.

From my perspective most of the relevant issues have probably been found in Cuba, but there could be substantial additional additions from Mexico or other countries.

Anyway, time will tell. This is part of the fun of collecting.

[Exhibitman]

they are 2.375" x 3.375" (or 2-3/8" x 3-3/8"). Nearly modern "standard size"

They are about the same size and similar in style to these nonsport cards issued in the early 1930s. I wonder if there is a connection?

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneouscards/websize/002%20-%20Copy.jpg