Anonymity vs Privacy on the Net54baseball

[Leon]

Anonymity vs Privacy on the Net54baseball


I feel it's time for a healthy debate on this subject and hopefully we can find the best rule for the board, and the moderating of the rule. I will only say that the end result is members will have to stand behind what they say on the board. The "Privacy" on the Board is being debated.
Here is the rule today, (with a typo or two corrected):

"Anonymous, where this board is concerned, implies that you are not known to the moderator or anyone else. That is not permitted on Net54baseball. However, you may remain private on the board; otherwise, as long as your post is not argumentative, controversial, confrontational, accusatorial etc.…For example you can discuss attributes of cards, sets or memorabilia and stay private. You can not say someone is an imbecile, hard to deal with, gave poor service etc…and remain private on the board. In addition to that if your opinion is that you dislike someone, hate them, can’t stand or don’t like anything about them, and you want to tell the world about it on Net54baseball, then your full name will need to be in your post. The moderator may put the posters name on the board or delete their posts, at his sole discretion, when this rule is not adhered to. Heated debates will require first and last names to be known, and made public, on the board. Contact information will be given out for legal reasons or under extraordinary circumstances at the discretion of the moderator."



ps...the reason I am bringing this up again is the current way it's being done isn't working for me :) ...way too much oversight needed.

[Ease]

Imo everyone should have their first and last name under their login name or in their sig. Period. That ends all the oversight.

[Jacklitsch]

Imo everyone should have their first and last name under their login name or in their sig. Period. That ends all the oversight.

Changed my mind. If you don't know me by now I don't want you to.

[Leon]

Thanks for your thought Eric....That would be my first choice but I know it's not good for a lot of people and for good reason.

****In this thread you can remain private and argue with me. Since we are debating it I want everyone to have a chance to say something. Please don't take that as carte blanch..... If you get out of hand, and unprofessional I will revoke this consideration and make your name known. Just be cool and you can argue :). All in the spirit of debate.

[dstudeba]

My home was broken into last year and cards were stolen. That is one of the reasons I will not put my first and last name in my posts. If that is a requisite of posting I won't post. No big deal as my life will go on and the board will go on.

[drc]

My opinion is, if the moderator has information, and the poster isn't causing trouble, I have no issue with someone not posting his name. No harm, no foul, as they say. I understand and appreciate why people don't want to post their name on a public chatboard.

[teetwoohsix]

I understand both sides of this.....when I first joined, I had my full name up for months-no harm done. Then, I just decided I wanted to be "a little" more anonymous, so just used my last initial for my last name.

Anyone I've bought cards from can vouch for the fact I give all my info to them- home adress, full name, and even add my phone # in there too.

If anyone for any reason would like my last name, you can P.M. me and I will give it to you. Then, at least, I know who it is that is wanting to know my last name ;)

I like the option to be anonymous........because anyone on the web can see your full name, board member or not- that is my main issue with it.

Sincerely, Clayton

[asphaltman]

I don't like being required to have first and last name on every post. Heck if we have to have that then why do we have a members page with emails, ebay handles, websites, etc?

To me...if you've been here for years and are known...then you're known by the general masses...and that should be good enough.


If anything, I wish the member page would be updated...as so many new people here are posting that aren't on it, as well as quite a few on it that don't even come here anymore.

[Rich Klein]

But in our society, one of the great strengths has always been that you have a right to know who your accusers are and have them known to you.

If I say something about a Doug Allen for example, at least I put my name out there -- as does Jeffrey Lichtman who is actually closer to a public figure than I'll ever be,

Doug then has the right to know who it was that said something about him, and I don't have any problems with that.

If you are going to post on a subject that is controversial, then anyone does have the right to know who you are.

If you wish only to post on subjects such as,, observations on 1967 Topps hi #'s, then go ahead and don't worry about if anyone knows who you are.

I think this gives everyone a chance to face their adverseries and I'm sorry but I'm all in favor of giving names. Having the right to know who it is saying something --- is a basic American right.

Regards
Rich

[drc]

I agree with you Rich. There's a difference between threat/auction fraud/theft threads and threads about T206s backs/figural trophies. The latter probably make up 98 percent of the threads. If someone wishes to stay anonymous, stay out of the other former 2 percent. I try my best to.

As far as I've seen, someone's identity is only an issue when the person does stuff like make threats or accusations of stealing. If these inflamatory subjects never came up, I doubt this issue would have ever come up.

[Kawika]

If it weren't for the all-trumping point made by Dstudeba, whoever the hell that is :), I would be 100% in favor of forbidding anonymnity on the board. Too many jokers coming over the walls.

David McDonald
(not my real name)

[3-2-count]

Imo everyone should have their first and last name under their login name or in their sig. Period. That ends all the oversight.

Agreed. My vote is with Eric & Steve.

[T206Collector]

Uh... If I was naive enough to use my real name on here, well then OF COURSE I would want everyone else to do the same.

Duh.

If you start listening to the folks that like to use their real names, you won't get anything near a useful debate on the subject.

Putting privacy aside, which is a major consideration, the best reason to not use a real name is that it doesn't freaking matter what name anyone uses on an Internet forum. As long as people stay consistent with their usage then there shouldn't be any confusion. At the same time, if someone is being an arsehole, then ban them quickly.

Finally, while many of the regular posters like to use their names for some reason, to the extent your bag is social networking, then please keep in mind that many of us, myself included, are not interested in meeting folks on here in real life. Barry Sloate could call himself Jonny Bloat, for all i care -- he's still the same Internet person to me.

If you want to get to know each other in real life, sign up for Match.com. Otherwise, keep sharing images of your awesome cards, ask questions about your cards, answer questions about my cards, buy/sell/trade your cards. Everything else is none of my business and i don't care to know who you are, or for you to know who i am...

[Matt]

If anything, I wish the member page would be updated...as so many new people here are posting that aren't on it, as well as quite a few on it that don't even come here anymore.

Dave - the 'Community' link at the top has a full current membership listing. Of course, it is dependent on the member supplying their contact info.

[asphaltman]

Dave - the 'Community' link at the top has a full current membership listing. Of course, it is dependent on the member supplying their contact info.


I was talking more about this page Matt...which I guess was just plain replaced by the other one you pointed out.


http://www.net54baseball.com/forum/content/vintagelinks.html

[Rickyy]

I see both sides to the argument as well..but posts that veer into nasty comments and personal attacks and those posts that appear suddenly with controversial statements need to be dealt with a swift hand. Your rules are your rules and this is your site...I'm fine with banning, deleting or editing posts as deemed justifiable based on the mods discretion and rules that are clearly set forth...if you don't like that...leave or start your own site with your own rules...my two yen.

[T206Collector]

What if using your real name was banned -- wouldn't there be fewer personal attacks? Also, if you were personally attacked, wouldn't you take it less seriously if the attacker didn't even know your name?

[teetwoohsix]

One of the turning points for me to exclude my last name was one time I googled my name and one of the first things that came up was a thread I started (or replied to, can't remember) here on Net54.

I also agree if you are going to disrespect people, accuse people, etc. then you should expect your full name to be exposed.

Clayton

[T206Collector]

One of my old high school friends found me on Net54 - and that was even WITHOUT me using my real name. Just enough people calling me Paul on here was actually enough.

[drc]

You can put your name in a way that it prevents your real name showing up on google but everyone knows who you are. Bob Jones can be put there as B@bJones or BobJ.ones, for examples. It's not just for style point that I post my name as one word above. Though it is quite stylish, just like me.

[Kawika]

Uh... If I was naive enough to use my real name on here, well then OF COURSE I would want everyone else to do the same.

Duh.

If you start listening to the folks that like to use their real names, you won't get anything near a useful debate on the subject.

Putting privacy aside, which is a major consideration, the best reason to not use a real name is that it doesn't freaking matter what name anyone uses on an Internet forum. As long as people stay consistent with their usage then there shouldn't be any confusion. At the same time, if someone is being an arsehole, then ban them quickly.

Finally, while many of the regular posters like to use their names for some reason, to the extent your bag is social networking, then please keep in mind that many of us, myself included, are not interested in meeting folks on here in real life. Barry Sloate could call himself Jonny Bloat, for all i care -- he's still the same Internet person to me.

If you want to get to know each other in real life, sign up for Match.com. Otherwise, keep sharing images of your awesome cards, ask questions about your cards, answer questions about my cards, buy/sell/trade your cards. Everything else is none of my business and i don't care to know who you are, or for you to know who i am...

It isn't just an "internet forum" to some of us, more like a clubhouse where we can meet up with real flesh-and-blood friends, people we have spoken with, shaken hands with, welcomed to our homes. If you want to isolate yourself from all that it's your choice, but don't characterize us as needy nerds hanging at the Net54 Lonely Hearts Club. You're way off the mark.

Just for you, Tee.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1189N7mcS1Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[teetwoohsix]

LOL Thanks David, I needed a laugh :)

Clayton

[Ease]

At the same time, if someone is being an arsehole, then ban them quickly.
Who determines who is being an @sshole? You? Me? Leon? Dan? Is Leon or Dan an @sshole for banning someone he thought was an @sshole? Should we ban Leon or Dan for being an @sshole to an @sshole?

See the problem with that?

[E93]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Best,
The collector formerly known as JimB

[tbob]

[QUOTE=Kawika;883768]It isn't just an "internet forum" to some of us, more like a clubhouse where we can meet up with real flesh-and-blood friends, people we have spoken with, shaken hands with, welcomed to our homes. If you want to isolate yourself from all that it's your choice, but don't characterize us as needy nerds hanging at the Net54 Lonely Hearts Club. You're way off the mark.

Well said David. :)

[deadballera]

in my opinion...

All heated debates should have first and last name.

Just general card questions or "show me" threads are pretty basic...no name needed.

[Leon]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Best,
The collector formerly known as JimB

Hi Jim
Please see the "ps." in my original post. It is broken as I am having to get into the middle of too many debates and make decisions I don't want to have to make (so frequently). I realize it's not that bad for everyone else, but can you imagine getting PM's, emails and board posts asking you to intervene, multiple times every day. That is the way it is for me now.

I have many board friends who want to give their opinions on debates that are "gray area" things, with only having their USER ID's in their posts. Then someone else, maybe new to the board, fires a "Hey, you need to have your name in that post"...then the board friend gets offended if I say something to them, or blows me off, and whatever I do is going to upset one of them. This is happening multiple times daily. I have to rectify that somehow. regards

[wonkaticket]

I don't like being required to have first and last name on every post. Heck if we have to have that then why do we have a members page with emails, ebay handles, websites, etc?

To me...if you've been here for years and are known...then you're known by the general masses...and that should be good enough.


If anything, I wish the member page would be updated...as so many new people here are posting that aren't on it, as well as quite a few on it that don't even come here anymore.


Agree with Dave, most everyone knows everybody. I see no real need....I think it could create more potential issues vs. correct or avoid potential issues.

Just my two cents.

John

Actually Leon you of all people should understand the no real need for last names. All it takes is someone with a silly axe to grind and a website to make your full name synonymous with whatever tripe they would like to spread. And for what or over what a disagreement of opinion or point of view on a baseball card board. You have our numbers and details if someone pulls something really illegal I think you can hand that over to the right people...

[Jaybird]

Member page makes sense. If the names are there, then anyone can check and find out the name (if you're a member, I assume). Then we don't have to police the internal threads.

I think it is the rare few that are stirring things up just to stir them up. If the member page has everyone's name and we are able to PM and email each other directly, that should provide the necessary accountability.

I can see how it would be a drag for a moderator to enforce the rule everyday when these discussions and disagreements are part of normal discourse.

Question is: how hard is it to update the member list?

[T206Collector]

If you want to treat it like a clubhouse, that's your prerogative -- just keep in mind that this forum is as open to the public as a fishbowl.

It is not at all surprising that the clubhouse members want to know who they're conversing with by full name. You've all exposed yourselves as real humans, with real emotions and feelings. I'm just a Matty Dark Cap Avatar and a real passion for T206 cards. If the price for doing that here is joining your clubhouse, well then I guess I'll just move on.

[alanu]

I would prefer to remain at least semi-private for security/privacy reasons and would especially not want to be on a "member list" of collectors, but then again I'm a little paranoid and don't even use my real name on facebook.

[sportscardpete]

Honestly, I really don't like having my name put out in public. If there was a way that only the people on the board could see my name (and not through public searches, ex Google) than I would have no issue putting my name in. Which is why I feel everyone should have their name in their public profile but not on individual posts. I think that is fair for everyone, and is probably something the general universe can agree on.

Also, Leon you are doing an awesome job. It must be hard keeping everyone happy and no decision is easy.


Thank you,

P*ter I****ce**i =)

[Rich Klein]

I think the real issue comes down to in what threads you make posts.

Making posts in threads about -- Net 54 Contest as to what an EBay item will sell for --- is fine -- I don't care if you post your name in that one. We had a nice thread on the post-war boards about 67 Topps Hi#'s -- on that one -- no names needed.

Making posts in threads such as the one we had a way way back about JP Cohen's background or something that looks askew in a Memory Lane auction (That was the 1st thought that came into mind -- no inference meant) -- then if JP, Daniel (Who I have known since the 1980's), etc want to know who made that post, they do have the right to do so. The cosignor of some of the cards in question later posted to his credit.

Regards
Rich

[Leon]

Well, it looks like everyone can sort of understand the situation. I am not sure there is a perfect solution. Here is an idea that might upset fewer folks than what is happening now...

How about when you get into a heated debate, or any kind of discussion with a board member, and they want to know who you are, then they can email me and I can tell them your name?? It isn't perfect but I doubt I would get more than a request or two every several days, maybe less...as most people do know each other. Once I tell someone I won't have to tell them again (for that member). I want this to be as open of a forum as possible while forcing people to take responsibility for what they say. (if it gets to that point in a discussion). I understand there will be some objections but at least it's a start. .thoughts?

ps...btw, this would mean you could only have your user id on the board, always.....

[T206Collector]

Who determines who is being an @sshole? You? Me? Leon? Dan? Is Leon or Dan an @sshole for banning someone he thought was an @sshole? Should we ban Leon or Dan for being an @sshole to an @sshole?

See the problem with that?

Seriously? If Leon decided to ban 10 people a day just for fun, that would be totally okay with me. It's his ball. If he wants to take it away from people, that's his choice, and I have the utmost confidence in him.

[Rich Klein]

Sounds reasonable ---- and remember -- that person must also post and maintain a valid email address. The person who is asking must be able to contact the poster in question -- no blocks or anything ---

You say something, you take responsibility.

Rich

[Bilko G]

Imo everyone should have their first and last name under their login name or in their sig. Period. That ends all the oversight.


agreed:eek:

[Kawika]

If you want to treat it like a clubhouse, that's your prerogative -- just keep in mind that this forum is as open to the public as a fishbowl.

It is not at all surprising that the clubhouse members want to know who they're conversing with by full name. You've all exposed yourselves as real humans, with real emotions and feelings. I'm just a Matty Dark Cap Avatar and a real passion for T206 cards. If the price for doing that here is joining your clubhouse, well then I guess I'll just move on.

Don't really have a rebuttal for you, Paul. You are correct that our "clubhouse" is also a fishbowl and I fully appreciate the security concerns people might have. If someone ever steals my baseball card collection maybe I'll wish I had stayed anonymous. The internet is lousy with nameless bottom dwellers and their unkind and stupid commentaries. Just look at any blog. I stand against that. I was fashioned in older times, my word is who I am and I will put my name by it and take my chances.

[Bilko G]

It is broken as I am having to get into the middle of too many debates and make decisions I don't want to have to make (so frequently). I realize it's not that bad for everyone else, but can you imagine getting PM's, emails and board posts asking you to intervene, multiple times every day. That is the way it is for me now.



Sounds like you need to hire a couple more moderators to help you out Leon;)

[Mikehealer]

Don't really have a rebuttal for you, Paul. You are correct that our "clubhouse" is also a fishbowl and I fully appreciate the security concerns people might have. If someone ever steals my baseball card collection maybe I'll wish I had stayed anonymous. The internet is lousy with nameless bottom dwellers and their unkind and stupid commentaries. Just look at any blog. I stand against that. I was fashioned in older times, my word is who I am and I will put my name by it and take my chances.

I couldn't agree more. Well typed.

[smtjoy]

Imo everyone should have their first and last name under their login name or in their sig. Period. That ends all the oversight.

I already have my name up there so I am in this camp already. I do think we would have a lot less issues if that were the case but would lose some good posters too. Granted the systems is broke now so we are going to lose out one way or the other to fix things.

[Leon]

I already have my name up there so I am in this camp already. I do think we would have a lot less issue if that were the case but would lose some good posters too. Granted the systems is broke now so we are going to lose out one way or the other to fix things.

Exactly my take too but...... there are good reasons to let folks stay private...

That is why my proposal right above might work? We might lose the fewest folks.

To answer a previous question, there is no and will be no board directory where everyones name is (besides the, moderators-only, very private registration database). The links section is there and if folks send me their info it gets put up there. IF they don't then it's not.

[JamesGallo]

Don't really have a rebuttal for you, Paul. You are correct that our "clubhouse" is also a fishbowl and I fully appreciate the security concerns people might have. If someone ever steals my baseball card collection maybe I'll wish I had stayed anonymous. The internet is lousy with nameless bottom dwellers and their unkind and stupid commentaries. Just look at any blog. I stand against that. I was fashioned in older times, my word is who I am and I will put my name by it and take my chances.

I agree with this as well. It drived me nuts that people try to sell something and just give an email. If I don't have contact with you how am I supposed to know your name. I believe currenctly the mods can see everyones name and I think that at a certain point a request for someone's name would be ok.

Lets say someone has to get to 100 or 200 posts before they can request contact infromation that might help as well and prevent a run of the mill searcher from getting any contact information.

Leon's idea seems like it is fine and I do think of this as somewhat of a community and enjoy talking cards with people in person as well.

I understand the security issue, but IMO if someone tracks you down with plans to steal your cards then it is more likely someone you know locally then someone you met on a chat board 5 states away. Just my opinion but I don't see typical crooks searching out card collections.

James G

[asphaltman]

For me it's not a matter of thinking everyone is going to come after my collection...just seems like after being around here for years you should have the right to be known by the majority of the board with your handle, or first name, or whatever....


And anyway, if some goofball wants to come after my collection they'll get to meet Mr. Smith & Wesson before they'd meet Mr. Cobb or Anson.... :)

[Rich Klein]

Names are good --- is that believe it or not, there might be people with axes to grind, and they might even be compensated for those efforts --- to make posts about certain people, certain auction houses; certain grading companies, etc.

There was a case a couple of years back, where the CEO of Whole Foods Company went to a chat board to post negative things about not just a competitor but someone they were interested in purchasing as well.

Here is a link to one story about that situation

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/139462/whole_foods_bans_postings_after_online_blunder.htm l

If I did not have to put my name out there, I could do something like this to hurt PSA/BGS/SGC or any of a number of auction houses. I might even be an employee of a competitor.

Yes I do get the privacy and security issue, but you know -- I had people over at my house to give me quotes on insulation --- and one guy showed me what he used to give me the quotes -- and EVERYTHING was a public record issue. Yes, he was/is very legit -- his quote was within 3 percent of the other quote I got.

My point is, there are more dangers to people not knowing who you are for this board then people knowing who you are. And, if you don't want people to know who you are -- stay out of the controversial threads and stay in the vast majority of threads.

Rich

[alanu]

Leon, is there anyway to earmark certain threads to require full names in order to post and then leave others where anyone can post.

That would probably require marking each user as to whether they are full name users or not.

Maybe more trouble than it's worth.

[Tsaiko]

or any kind of discussion with a board member, and they want to know who you are, then they can email me and I can tell them your name??

Any?? Jeez, that's a bit much. Wouldn't it just be easier for a board member to tell me they refuse to have a discussion with me because they don't know my name? Then I can have a choice. Besides, I can already feel some board members ignoring me and I know why, which is fine by me, I can respect that/them.

Also, you're referring to discussions on the board, right? Not PM's or other?

Look, I'm fine with being a spectator here, really, so don't put any weight on my opinion, but I'm the type of person that has multiple daily discussions with strangers and rarely introduce myself. I'm that person who turns around and starts talking to you in line at the grocery store or in the Doctor's office waiting room for no apparent reason. I feel that life is just too short to just wait, when there are other humans doing the same thing. Interact!
But, before you come into my house, I must know who you are. A lot of members feel this is their house, I'm sure, so there's the two sides of the coin as I see it. One's casual and one's personal.

Of course if I'm going to make a statement of negative fact about someone in the hobby, you can be sure that I will start that post with, "my name is".

[T206Collector]

Don't really have a rebuttal for you, Paul. You are correct that our "clubhouse" is also a fishbowl and I fully appreciate the security concerns people might have. If someone ever steals my baseball card collection maybe I'll wish I had stayed anonymous. The internet is lousy with nameless bottom dwellers and their unkind and stupid commentaries. Just look at any blog. I stand against that. I was fashioned in older times, my word is who I am and I will put my name by it and take my chances.

Just a couple of responses:

Requiring names may get rid of the bottom dwellers, so I get that, though only to a degree - who is to say what my real name is. You can call me "Paul" if you like.

But I think there's a missed point among those who put their real names, and that is what your current and future employers may think about your hobby. The number of HR departments that care about employee - current and prospective - Internet activity is only growing. Now, this is a far cry from porn, obviously. But the cleaner my Internet profile, the better. My next employer might not really want to hire someone who spends working hours browsing the b/s/t listings here.

I'd rather not have to worry about these paranoid concerns, or who will find me or look for me or whatever. And by keeping a low Internet profile, I don't have to.

So, again, if you'd like to take the small risk that posting your name with your valuables is going to get you robbed, or that your boss would fire you or not hire you, go for it, dude. But to require people who want to talk about baseball cards, of all things, to take any risk whatsoever is ridiculous.

[calvindog]

How about no names are listed but if one board member has a problem with another then names are divulged privately?

[Kawika]

Just a couple of responses:

Requiring names may get rid of the bottom dwellers, so I get that, though only to a degree - who is to say what my real name is. You can call me "Paul" if you like.

But I think there's a missed point among those who put their real names, and that is what your current and future employers may think about your hobby. The number of HR departments that care about employee - current and prospective - Internet activity is only growing. Now, this is a far cry from porn, obviously. But the cleaner my Internet profile, the better. My next employer might not really want to hire someone who spends working hours browsing the b/s/t listings here.

I'd rather not have to worry about these paranoid concerns, or who will find me or look for me or whatever. And by keeping a low Internet profile, I don't have to.

So, again, if you'd like to take the small risk that posting your name with your valuables is going to get you robbed, or that your boss would fire you or not hire you, go for it, dude. But to require people who want to talk about baseball cards, of all things, to take any risk whatsoever is ridiculous.
Probably not a bad idea to keep a low profile. Nowadays some dirtbag can pick your pocket via the internet from the comfort of his basement suite in Pyongyang or Bucharest. I'm just an old guy with dated expectations who appreciates the congeniality and manners of the bygone millenium and who is apparently pissing in the wind in the new one.

[Leon]

How about no names are listed but if one board member has a problem with another then names are divulged privately?


A brilliant suggestion. I will second this motion.

[pariah1107]

A screen name pariah, I figure Ty is much worse, and probably less trustworthy. Does it REALLY MATTER?

[steve B]

Board privacy is a complex issue. I'm on a few mailing lists/boards for bicycle collecting and/or repairing. I've also been on a few that are no longer running.

All the ones no longer running allowed complete anonymity. And they devolved into a fesival of very low name calling and coarse language. Even by my low standards. Once a lot of content got lost the collapse was quick as only the ones doing the stuff were left to abuse each other.

Most allow some anonymity, but not total, and usually there's no clear policy. The one that comes to mind is a mailing list for bulders or wannabe builders of custom bike frames. Some people are in the business, and are quite well known. Some are just starting and want to be known. The mostly anonymous ones are usually hobbyists. And usually everyone is ok with that. The exception lately was someone who wanted to be anonymous, but also wanted to split a $2000 parts order with one or more other people. How he planned on doing that without giving any info escapes me.

Another requires a lot of transparency, full name town and country on every post. That one has rarely had any full on arguments. (There was one guy who used to regularly post while either drunk or off his meds, but he's ok now)

But the money involved isn't as big as what goes on in cards. So there's less likelihood of theft. And it's closer to blue collar, so there's less sensitivity, and less chance of a lawsuit of any sort. (Except product liability, some new framebuilders are pushing the envelope a bit far in my opinion)

The challenge is how to allow some anonymity without giving the worst people a free hand to ruin things.
T206 collector has a point that we don't really have to actually know each other. And that there are security concerns.
But..... If a prospective employer won't hire me because I have a life outside work that includes baseball cards I'm not really interested in working for them.

I like the idea of potentially flagging threads as controversial, but it sounds like more work rather than less.
Pre approving people with good reason for keeping anonymous and maybe adding a logo of some sort? Although this just marks someone as maybe more interesting to the curious/nefarious.

I try to remember to add my name if it's a controversy. Like Kawika I feel that I am responsible for my comments. I also do first name last initial on most posts.

Another element that I think is lost with full anonymity is knowing whose opinion is being read. There are areas where I feel confident in my opinions. And areas where I don't have as much confidence. One of the fun things when I first came here was seeing some names I knew from the past. Guys that I knew had been around a long time and had a good deal of knowledge.
I also actually liked the overall atmosphere of the board. One of my welcomes was me mentioning that I had some blank back Southern league T206s. The very next response was I think literally "yeah right.." So I had to do scans. Being held to standards works well for me, probably a product of a backgroung in machinery/ manufacturing/engineering etc.

Steve Birmingham

[novakjr]

Honestly, I'm all for anonymity if a member chooses to remain anonymous, but I think it would be nice for us members who list our names to be hidden from non-members. Or maybe even institute a trial period/limited access, in which new members can't see names for at least 30/45 days, to avoid anymore SteaknChop type fiascos, where a new guy gets mad and just starts using names to look up personal info. Hell, the harassing calls were just the tip of the ice-burg, as far as what a person can do to you, just simply by knowing your name and having a grudge. As far as the current rules regarding names and heated discussion, I'm completely on board with keeping them the way they are.

[iwantitiwinit]

I prefer not to dilvulge personal information for privacy reasons but love the site. Is there anyway that there can be 2 different member status? One which allows someone to view all pictures anoymously (sp?) without the ability to comment and see other individuals sign-ins. Viewing pictures is my primary use of the site. Then a second higher level status with full functionality. It would be a shame if i couldn't view pictures without divulging personal information.

[Leon]

I prefer not to dilvulge personal information for privacy reasons but love the site. Is there anyway that there can be 2 different member status? One which allows someone to view all pictures anoymously (sp?) without the ability to comment and see other individuals sign-ins. Viewing pictures is my primary use of the site. Then a second higher level status with full functionality. It would be a shame if i couldn't view pictures without divulging personal information.

No worries...if you stay out of those controversial or hotly debated threads there will never be a need for the personal information to be made public.

It seems as members keep thinking everything is ok the way it is. It isn't. From the responses, and lack of rebuttals, what is probably going to happen is what Jeff L and I mentioned a few posts up. You will NOT have to display your name and if anyone asks I will give it to them privately. IF there are problems with that then someone needs to speak up. I can not continue to bird dog the "full names issue" on the site with the way the debates and arguments are going. Those discussions are fine, don't get me wrong, I just don't want to get involved as much as I have to now. If it stays the way I am proposing in this post then I will amend the rules to reflect this new procedure. If there are any complaints or issues about this PLEASE speak up now. Also, if someone asks for someones name, and there is no issue going on, then I will not give out the info. Your privacy is still in tact. regards

[bijoem]

A brilliant suggestion. I will second this motion.


+1


When I first came to N54 - I wouldn't mind posting my name, or talking about family or personal stuff and my card collection was viewable to anyone on my website.

Over time (and because of some comments or correspondence from member(s)) - I feel less comfortable with the idea of posting my name, or sharing personal tidbits, and my collection on my website is now password protected.

Add to that the point raised about googling your name.... I would rather not have all of my posts and threads here show up in a google search.


So.... I am for 'no names', with the understanding that all names can be divulged at the moderator's discretion.


I would like to point out (especially because the beginning part of my post has a negative vibe to it)..... that N54 is one of the coolest places to go on the net. This is a great, great site. And a thank you goes to Leon and the other moderators.

[bmarlowe1]

How about no names are listed but if one board member has a problem with another then names are divulged privately?

Perfect

[slidekellyslide]

Agree with Dave, most everyone knows everybody. I see no real need....I think it could create more potential issues vs. correct or avoid potential issues.

Just my two cents.

John

Actually Leon you of all people should understand the no real need for last names. All it takes is someone with a silly axe to grind and a website to make your full name synonymous with whatever tripe they would like to spread. And for what or over what a disagreement of opinion or point of view on a baseball card board. You have our numbers and details if someone pulls something really illegal I think you can hand that over to the right people...

That axe-grinder is now in jail as far as I know...or at least in a crapload of trouble that's probably going to put him there.

[chaddurbin]

same sentiment as "b.i.j.o.e.m".

[teetwoohsix]

How about no names are listed but if one board member has a problem with another then names are divulged privately?

I agree, this sounds like the way to go.

Recently (sort of) in the watercooler section, the board member (or ex?) Shimozukawa posted a link to a site where you put your name in and it pulls up every address that is tied to your name. I think he deleted all of his posts so it's probably gone.

I tried it and sure enough it pulled up my address(one of the few with the same name). I understand there are quite a few sites that do this, but it was a bit alarming to me how easy it is for anyone to figure out where you live just by your name, just having an unlisted phone # these days just doesn't do the trick anymore. And why would he post that on this site? Who knows, because now he is gone, and left us with a bunch of deleted posts :rolleyes:

Anyhow- this is the best site on the net, and Jeff's idea sits just fine with me too. Thanks for taking care of the board Leon- very much appreciated.

Sincerely, Clayton

[M's_Fan]

I understand everyone's concern about "taking responsibility" for comments, but I have serious concerns with the requiring members to disclose their names for the following reasons:

(1) Many collectors with high-end collections (I wish that included me) and even low-end collections do not want to post their personal information on the board which could be viewed by potential theives, and

(2) I have read that identity thieves mine personal data from forums to build a profile for identity theft.

You may disagree with this but these fears do exist and such a rule would deter a significant amount of people from participating on the board (including me).

[wonkaticket]

That axe-grinder is now in jail as far as I know...or at least in a crapload of trouble that's probably going to put him there.

I have heard....rumors of that…

That is one of the reasons I was always just Wonka until recently Leon wanted my last name added which most everyone knew already...

In the end I will always stand beside what I type here. But I ended up on the axe grinders site because somebody forwarded my name and business email with my company info. Next thing you know my company is popping up on Google linked to a web rant page filled with anti-Semitic babble….luckily I work in the entertainment business where there are very few Jews so no big deal. ;)

That’s why for the most part happy to be Wonka or John.

Dan & Leon so what is the deal now? Not that it matters now but for the new guys full name or no…give me the reader’s digest on this.

John

[Leon]

Dan & Leon so what is the deal now? Not that it matters now but for the new guys full name or no…give me the reader’s digest on this.

John

So I/we can get out from under the gun of having to monitor the site 7x24, and be involved in way too many threads I/we don't want to be involved in, the rule will be changing. There will still be 0 "total" anonymity as the moderators will have every members contact info. That info will remain private unless someone asks for it who is involved in a discussion with the unknown (to the board) member. Hopefully that will satisfy almost everyone. I will probably put in a caveat that says if someone goes ballistic their name may still be made public, at the moderators discretion. That might help with folks that want to go off the deep end without fear of being known publicly. The goal is to keep privacy, when needed, but also to keep accountability. So the short answer is, you can take your name off your sig line if you want to, John. regards

[Rob D.]

So I/we can get out from under the gun of having to monitor the site 7x24, and be involved in way too many threads I/we don't want to be involved in, the rule will be changing. There will still be 0 "total" anonymity as the moderators will have every members contact info. That info will remain private unless someone asks for it who is involved in a discussion with the unknown (to the board) member. Hopefully that will satisfy almost everyone. I will probably put in a caveat that says if someone goes ballistic their name may still be made public, at the moderators discretion. That might help with folks that want to go off the deep end without fear of being known publicly. The goal is to keep privacy, when needed, but also to keep accountability. So the short answer is, you can take your name off your sig line if you want to, John. regards

If our name and/or contact information is requested by someone and given to him or her, can we expect to be notified by a moderator?

Thanks.

[Leon]

If our name and/or contact information is requested by someone and given to him or her, can we expect to be notified by a moderator?

Thanks.

Yes, I will be happy to let folks know when someone inquires about them. It's a two way street.

[Kenny Cole]

Don't really have a rebuttal for you, Paul. You are correct that our "clubhouse" is also a fishbowl and I fully appreciate the security concerns people might have. If someone ever steals my baseball card collection maybe I'll wish I had stayed anonymous. The internet is lousy with nameless bottom dwellers and their unkind and stupid commentaries. Just look at any blog. I stand against that. I was fashioned in older times, my word is who I am and I will put my name by it and take my chances.



!00% agree

[Collect Equity]

But I think there's a missed point among those who put their real names, and that is what your current and future employers may think about your hobby. The number of HR departments that care about employee - current and prospective - Internet activity is only growing. Now, this is a far cry from porn, obviously. But the cleaner my Internet profile, the better. My next employer might not really want to hire someone who spends working hours browsing the b/s/t listings here.

Another reason to avoid associating your name with your card collection is in case you run for public office some day. I can just imagine a news article about how Jonathan who is running for Mayor is out-of-touch with the common man's plight because he spent $20K a year on baseball cards last year alone.

(like when John McCain was asked about how many houses he had -- he's invested in rentals and someone else takes care of them so he didn't know. Boy did that make him look out of touch)

I too like the idea that when people get in disputes their full name AND email are disclosed to each other in an email to both from Leon so they can take it offline if they'd like.

-Jonathan

[Kenny Cole]

Understanding that you need to be substantially less involved in personal quarrels, I will say this: If I am going to be shot at by someone for something I said, IMO, they need to be a real person with a real name. On the board. Accountable on the board, not in private emails, after you tell me who it is that's shooting at me. If I'm getting shot at in public, I want to respond in public. So when I send you the email about who is shooting at me, get the answer, and post that full name on the board, is that an infraction? If so, why?

I personally am not too satisfied with being attacked by some tool who doesn't even have the guts to post his or her real name due to alleged "privacy" issues that causes them to be anonymous while they're shooting at you. Being "private" is all well and good until you enter the fray. Then, IMO, you should forfeit that right. Understanding that was the problem which caused this post in the first place, the proposed solution doesn't fix it.

[Matthew H]

One cool thing about having a common first and last name combo... I don't think that anyone can find me by searching for Matt Hall.

I'm pretty sure that it is much easier to find out who someone is by their email address. I think everyone's email address is public here too right?

Plus, there are bigger privacy concerns then net 54 on the internet.

If you haven't seen this website, type you name in search, see what they have, and opt out:

http://www.spokeo.com/name-search?g=name_gs_A000213&gclid=CLLhpYW5hKgCFQELbAod3Godqw

[Leon]

Understanding that you need to be substantially less involved in personal quarrels, I will say this: If I am going to be shot at by someone for something I said, IMO, they need to be a real person with a real name. On the board. Accountable on the board, not in private emails, after you tell me who it is that's shooting at me. If I'm getting shot at in public, I want to respond in public. So when I send you the email about who is shooting at me, get the answer, and post that full name on the board, is that an infraction? If so, why?

I personally am not too satisfied with being attacked by some tool who doesn't even have the guts to post his or her real name due to alleged "privacy" issues that causes them to be anonymous while they're shooting at you. Being "private" is all well and good until you enter the fray. Then, IMO, you should forfeit that right. Understanding that was the problem which caused this post in the first place, the proposed solution doesn't fix it.

Hi Kenny
And I am not comfortable with how it's been going. Give me a solution that works for everyone. Now, that being said, I think if you re-read my statement you will see that there is an "out". And by "out" I mean if someone gets too out of control then their name can be put on the board...otherwise, I am all ears.

ps...not sure about you putting the name out there. If I say yes, it will cause a sh** storm and if I say no it will cause a sh** storm...tough one...I am sure I wouldn't give you an infraction...maybe a verbal warning :)

[Kenny Cole]

So my question stands and remains unanswered: When I send you that email, get that name, and publicly post it, what happens?

Kenny

[Leon]

So my question stands and remains unanswered: When I send you that email, get that name, and publicly post it, what happens?

Kenny

And my answer stands...did you read my PS in the post?

[Kenny Cole]

asked my question as you were editing your answer, but it's still not an answer :)

[Leon]

asked my question as you were editing your answer, but it's still not an answer :)

Really..... I said it would be a verbal warning :).
Kenny- I don't think people should be able to hide behind their USER ID's.....it ain't going to happen on this watch. However I want to also give our members a place where they don't have to have their name in lights for all of the reasons mentioned. I am still listening for the perfect solution.

[Jaybird]

-thought better of it and deleted post.

Leon, thanks for keeping your humor :)

[Rich Klein]

Thus:

"Privacy" is a back seat in controversial issues. If you want to post on those threads --- that is your right -- but it is also everyone else's right to know who is saying what about them.

I will put in a caveat, if a thread gets controversial AFTER a few posts -- and you posted early before anything broke out and did not instigate in any way --- then you are OK with that. This protects someone from posting in a thread like looking for partners in REA Lots and then 20 posts later a war breaks out. Obvously, you had nothing to do with that issue and thus why should you be penalized.

But, if you make a post in a thread knowing it's controversial, then I agree with Kenny and David, your name needs to be out there.

Regards
Rich

[calvindog]

When does Elkins get out of jail? And when he gets out is he allowed to keep his guns and explosives? Let's answer these questions first. :)

[steve B]

One cool thing about having a common first and last name combo... I don't think that anyone can find me by searching for Matt Hall.

I'm pretty sure that it is much easier to find out who someone is by their email address. I think everyone's email address is public here too right?

Plus, there are bigger privacy concerns then net 54 on the internet.

If you haven't seen this website, type you name in search, see what they have, and opt out:

http://www.spokeo.com/name-search?g=name_gs_A000213&gclid=CLLhpYW5hKgCFQELbAod3Godqw

Does that actually find stuff about you? For me all it had was an address that I moved from 10+years ago. And that with an incorrect middle initial. I'll be leaving that up there. A bit of disinformation goes a long way. (Facebook thinks I'm over 100 years old :D )

[mr.ginter]

You may not use the Software to engage in or allow others to engage in any illegal activity where the Software is accessed and used. You may not use the Software to engage in any activity that will violate the rights of third parties, including, without limitation, through the use, public display, public performance, reproduction, distribution, or modification of communications or materials that infringe copyrights, trademarks, publicity rights, privacy rights, other proprietary rights, or rights against defamation of third parties.

[Leon]

You may not use the Software to engage in or allow others to engage in any illegal activity where the Software is accessed and used. You may not use the Software to engage in any activity that will violate the rights of third parties, including, without limitation, through the use, public display, public performance, reproduction, distribution, or modification of communications or materials that infringe copyrights, trademarks, publicity rights, privacy rights, other proprietary rights, or rights against defamation of third parties.

I don't care what you cut and paste you won't be bitching at companies on this board and hide behind a user id. Whatever you just posted is NOT rules for this board. They are posted for all to see. Either you can abide by them or leave. No one is forcing anyone to post or be a member here. So if you want to bitch just be assured you will be known. I suggest you consult your lawyer again.

[slidekellyslide]

When does Elkins get out of jail? And when he gets out is he allowed to keep his guns and explosives? Let's answer these questions first. :)

I'm pretty sure the rules for ex-felons is no guns and explosives...I'm not sure if his chickens will be allowed to carry arms.

[Rich Klein]

Is the perfect argument for making sure there are names when needed.

That's why many of us don't like people who hide behind screen names never to be ID'd.

Rich

[Ease]

Is the perfect argument for making sure there are names when needed.

That's why many of us don't like people who hide behind screen names never to be ID'd.

Rich

+1

[calvindog]

I'm pretty sure the rules for ex-felons is no guns and explosives...I'm not sure if his chickens will be allowed to carry arms.

Yeah, I'm not certain that a psychotic lunatic like Elkins is real concerned about what the law allows or doesn't allow him to do.

[GoldenAge50s]

Mr. Ginter's post

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is the perfect argument for making sure there are names when needed.

That's why many of us don't like people who hide behind screen names never to be ID'd.

Rich


+2! I have always believed a full name should be posted as part of the ID, simple as that for me! Any other info can remain private & known only to Leon---to be used & disclosed at his discretion.

[Jacklitsch]

"GoldenAge50s
FredY
Member

I have always believed a full name should be posted as part of the ID, simple as that for me!"

Really? :rolleyes:

______________
Steve Murray

[mdschulze]

Leon,

I'm thankful I'm not in your shoes because of the daily BS you have to tolerate for managing this forum. It doesn't matter what rules you apply to this forum... you'll always have someone complaining about something. Just do what's easiest for you and say, "to hell" with everyone that isn't happy. Every participant is here by their on free will and no one is being held at gunpoint to post on a thread. If an individual doesn't like the moderation of this board, they have the right to not participate.

[ls7plus]

Agree wholeheartedly with Mike on that one!

Thanks for your energy and efforts, Leon.

Larry Smith

[GoldenAge50s]

LOL Steve---

I just changed it back to Y from Young yesterday per one of Leon's (or someone's) latest posts! Will change back if that decision is made.

(Changed back to Young again, so any future rulings won't matter to me!)

[Jacklitsch]

LOL Steve---

I just changed it back to Y from Young yesterday per one of Leon's (or someone's) latest posts! Will change back if that decision is made.

(Changed back to Young again, so any future rulings won't matter to me!)

I too am in a holding pattern. Deleted everything yesterday and am just waiting for the final word.

_________________________
Me: Steve Murray

[Leon]

Just to let ya'll know this is something I am thinking about seriously, and have thought about, for the last few days. I know it's easy to say (and I very much appreciate it) "just use your best judgment" but that is what I have had to do too often. That is the reason for the thread; to try to figure a better solution out. Thanks to all who have commented so far. I am listening. regards

[GoldenAge50s]

I just don't think there is an easy way out for Leon short of EVERYONE having to post a real name. If it remains a choice to be anonymous & there is a controversial post, he will have to keep telling folks to post their name.

If, as some have suggested, he give out a name to those that request it if a controversial post is made, then 25 people in the thread are going to want EM's from Leon!

[teetwoohsix]

OK, I fully understand both sides of the coin on this, but one thing I don't get is this:

(ficticious name used for example) *Bob Smith*

Bob's came on the board accusing X of ripping him off, and then goes on a rampage talking trash about a reputable (or non reputable ) auction house, then proceeds to bad mouth and disrespect multiple other board members.

Bob Smith's name is right there under his screen name. Other than Leon banning Bob Smith, what do you now do armed with Bob Smith's real name??

You have the name, but now what?? Do you know who he is all of a sudden?
Or do you still not know him at all? Retaliation? What?

I hope I'm presenting the scenario properly. Any time Leon has had someone disclose their name, I thought "O.K., still have no idea who he is, but O.K." :D

I fully agree that if someone is accusing someone of something (or any of those types of scenario's) that the person or buisness does have the right to know their names- they may want to sue for slander, or whatever. But I guess I don't get what the fuss is about everyone else having to have the persons info, *unless they are ripping people off*.

Sincerely, Clayton

[mdschulze]

I agree with Clayton's post above. Can a person's true identity really be confirmed upon signing up as a Net54 member? If the answer is "No", then requiring everyone to post their name wouldn't make sense. If a member signs up knowing there is probably a good chance they'll piss someone off, the chances of them disguising their identity increases.

Leon, a decision will have to be made one way or the other on your end... either everyone posts their name or no one is required. I don't see a middle ground that will free up time on your end. If you start setting guidelines to justify when a person should post their real name, you'll find yourself spending more time defining and explaining to people each individual guideline.... my suggestion is to keep it simple.

Whatever decision you make, you'll surely catch some negative feedback.... but once the storm blows over, everything should be fine. This is sort of like being the coach of a team. You may have a handful of parents in the stands who criticize your every move and think they can do a better job than you, but given the chance to volunteer and takeover the team... no one raises their hand. Make your decision, one way or the other, and I'm sure 95% of the members here will back you. Thanks, Mike

[Leon]

So here we are on this rule. It seems obvious to me (and should be to the rest of the board) we will never have 100% agreement as there are too many good reasons to have names be known or not.

I think what I am going to do is leave the rule the same as it is now BUT put in a few more lines at the end of it to try to take me and the other moderators out of the "back against the wall" issue, with mandating so much in each thread. When someone in a thread says "But their name HAS to be in the post" it puts us moderators (mainly me) in the uncomfortable situation of having to be involved too often. Most folks on the board, that know me very well, know my pet peeves and so forth. NO one is going to be able to hide behind a user id, and not be known, if they are making heated or disparaging comments. Hopefully the risk of having your full name exposed, but not mandating it (for the reason above) will be good enough to take care of the issue. Here is what I am proposing. I don't see how it can be made better but am still open to ideas. At the end of the day members will either trust my judgement on the matter or not. As many members have rightfully said, they can post or not...no one is making them do it. regards



"Anonymous, where this board is concerned, implies that you are not known to the moderator or anyone else. That is not permitted on Net54baseball. However, you may remain private on the board; otherwise, as long as your post is not argumentative, controversial, confrontational, accusatorial etc.…For example you can discuss attributes of cards, sets or memorabilia and stay private. You can not say someone is an imbecile, hard to deal with, gave poor service etc…and remain private on the board. In addition to that if your opinion is that you dislike someone, hate them, can’t stand or don’t like anything about them, and you want to tell the world about it on Net54baseball, then your full name will need to be in your post. The moderator may put the posters name on the board or delete their posts, at his sole discretion, when this rule is not adhered to. *Heated debates will require first and last names to be known, and made public, on the board. Contact information will be given out for legal reasons or under extraordinary circumstances at the discretion of the moderator. **The moderator has the authority to not require full name disclosure at his discretion, especially for well known members. This does NOT mean members can hide behind a user id on the board. Please be aware that your full name may be made public or given to participants privately."

[Big Six]

In my few months on the board, it's obvious Leon does a wonderful job running Net54...it's also obvious that it can be an overwhelming and thankless job. I've learned so much from reading all the posts and seeing many things I've never seen before...and I am glad to be a part of this community, albeit a small part.

That said, I would really encourage everyone to think before they type and try to put themselves in Leon's shoes...at the end of the day, we all have to be personally responsible for our own actions. We shouldn't have to rely on Leon and the other mods to be our conscience...

[T206Collector]

OK, I fully understand both sides of the coin on this, but one thing I don't get is this:

(ficticious name used for example) *Bob Smith*

Bob's came on the board accusing X of ripping him off, and then goes on a rampage talking trash about a reputable (or non reputable ) auction house, then proceeds to bad mouth and disrespect multiple other board members.

Bob Smith's name is right there under his screen name. Other than Leon banning Bob Smith, what do you now do armed with Bob Smith's real name??

You have the name, but now what?? Do you know who he is all of a sudden?
Or do you still not know him at all? Retaliation? What?

I hope I'm presenting the scenario properly. Any time Leon has had someone disclose their name, I thought "O.K., still have no idea who he is, but O.K." :D

I fully agree that if someone is accusing someone of something (or any of those types of scenario's) that the person or buisness does have the right to know their names- they may want to sue for slander, or whatever. But I guess I don't get what the fuss is about everyone else having to have the persons info, *unless they are ripping people off*.

Sincerely, Clayton

+1 <--- 100%

The idea that people give a $hit about someone else's real name on an Internet forum is, in my view, heavily based on the view that "if I share my name, then I deserve to know yours, too." But the self-interest of one person to share their names cannot be a fair justification to require another person to share theirs, too.

[Leon]

+1 <--- 100%

The idea that people give a $hit about someone else's real name on an Internet forum is, in my view, heavily based on the view that "if I share my name, then I deserve to know yours, too." But the self-interest of one person to share their names cannot be a fair justification to require another person to share theirs, too.

I won't be giving names out unless it is called for. Don't get into those arguments/heated discussions and you have nothing to worry about. Otherwise, give me a perfect solution and we will go with it. Just because someone asks for a name doesn't mean I am giving it out. It has to be warranted, imo.

[T206Collector]

I won't be giving names out unless it is called for. Don't get into those arguments/heated discussions and you have nothing to worry about. Otherwise, give me a perfect solution and we will go with it. Just because someone asks for a name doesn't mean I am giving it out. It has to be warranted, imo.

Leon,

To be clear, I'm totally comfortable with whatever solution you come up with -- short of requiring me to publicly post my name anywhere on the internet. I have simply never understood why anyone thinks putting their name out there is a good idea in any context. Or why anyone trusts that the names people do post are at all accurate -- or even relevant to any possible conversation.

So what if T205Trader calls me an a$$hole. What good does it do me to know his real name is Joe Smith? How would I know that's his real name anyway.

Best I can tell is people take it personally because they posted their own real names. But to me, that problem lies with the person who went public -- not T205Trader.

[Leon]

Leon,

To be clear, I'm totally comfortable with whatever solution you come up with -- short of requiring me to publicly post my name anywhere on the internet. I have simply never understood why anyone thinks putting their name out there is a good idea in any context. Or why anyone trusts that the names people do post are at all accurate -- or even relevant to any possible conversation.

So what if T205Trader calls me an a$$hole. What good does it do me to know his real name is Joe Smith? How would I know that's his real name anyway.

Best I can tell is people take it personally because they posted their own real names. But to me, that problem lies with the person who went public -- not T205Trader.

T206- You are in the extreme minority concerning your feelings towards the board. Most folks want to mingle and know other collectors. You don't and that is fine. No harm no foul. I have called several new registrants in the last few days as well as previously. If they gave me their incorrect names they were sticking to their story on the phone. There is no doubt a few roaches come in under the door. All I can do is the best I can at keeping it legit. "Boomer" posted this morning, I don't have his contact info (which will be called) so he is now unable to post on the board until I get it. I am as diligent as I can be on trying to get folks to be accountable for what they say. Most folks want to know who is having heated debates with them or calling them out etc....., me included. That is the reason for the rule in the first place. It will continue to be the rule too. I feel that adding the last few sentences to the current rule that was in place will probably do the trick. As far as anyone being frustrated or not liking the way the board is being run, all I can say is, it's America and this is a private board. If anyone doesn't like the rules they don't have to participate. I am not saying any of this to confront you about it, I am only giving my view on it. best regards

[T206Collector]

T206- You are in the extreme minority concerning your feelings towards the board. Most folks want to mingle and know other collectors.


It should not surprise anyone that posts for anonymity are outweighed by posts for publicity. By the very nature of those two positions, I would expect nothing else. And frankly, if I believed my feelings were in the majority, I'd have very little to say on this topic.

So while I would agree that I am in the extreme minority -- I would add the caveat that I am only in the minority among the regular posters here. But I am speaking not only for this minority -- which, again, by its very nature has an aversion to too much public exposure -- but also for all the lurkers, who love to read our little posts, but abhor the clubhouse mentality and decide not to post as a result.

Nobody seems all that inclined to consider how to make our forum more inviting for collectors who like to remain more private. All those great collections of legendary collectors -- some extremely wealthy, famous and private people. The more you make this place a fishbowl, the fewer of them you will attract to make contributions. That is another price of outlawing anonymity.

I'm getting pretty close to beating a dead horse here, but in my view, there should be one thread available for those who want to swap personal stories, share photos of themselves and their families, talk about their careers, etc. The rest of the threads should be made up of card-related discussions. And if someone is an a$$hole to someone else, they lose the key to the front door.

Oh well.... down from my soap box.......

[Leon]

It should not surprise anyone that posts for anonymity are outweighed by posts for publicity. By the very nature of those two positions, I would expect nothing else. And frankly, if I believed my feelings were in the majority, I'd have very little to say on this topic.

So while I would agree that I am in the extreme minority -- I would add the caveat that I am only in the minority among the regular posters here. But I am speaking not only for this minority -- which, again, by its very nature has an aversion to too much public exposure -- but also for all the lurkers, who love to read our little posts, but abhor the clubhouse mentality and decide not to post as a result.

Nobody seems all that inclined to consider how to make our forum more inviting for collectors who like to remain more private. All those great collections of legendary collectors -- some extremely wealthy, famous and private people. The more you make this place a fishbowl, the fewer of them you will attract to make contributions. That is another price of outlawing anonymity.

I'm getting pretty close to beating a dead horse here, but in my view, there should be one thread available for those who want to swap personal stories, share photos of themselves and their families, talk about their careers, etc. The rest of the threads should be made up of card-related discussions. And if someone is an a$$hole to someone else, they lose the key to the front door.

Oh well.... down from my soap box.......

You make some good points, admittedly. I realize you are speaking for the silent minority and that is commendable. However, the one point you are not taking into account enough, is the fact that ANYONE can stay private as long as they don't get into heated debates or name calling. A lot of our members prefer not to be publicly known and they are happy as larks while staying out of threads that will make them be publicly known on the board. Overall, I do agree with your statements. It's not my intention to dissuade collectors from participating but it IS my intention to have people that want to argue stand behind what they are saying. I am beating that same dead horse too :).One other quick thought. I also moderated the old board before the change to our new s/w. I can safely say we didn't have a large amount of collectors, who because they could stay completely anonymous (not known to even moderators) post very often, especially with regard to their collections or making helpful posts. Most of those anonymous people caused havoc. There will never be total anonymity allowed on this board. I feel very strongly about that. Your last sentence (not the soap box one) does state the situation very well. Honestly I expect that when this thread dies we will have very few problems going forward. My whole goal here was get out of intervening so much and I think these few new sentences in the rules should help. Again, I do appreciate everyone's thoughts on the subject. I wish it were an easy debate but it isn't. There really is no right answer that satisfies everyone. regards

take care

[T206Collector]

The one point you are not taking into account enough, is the fact that ANYONE can stay private as long as they don't get into heated debates or name calling.

Oh, I am totally pleased with that as a solution. I was not trying to challenge that solution with my posts. I was simply venting my frustration that some people feel so strongly about outing others. I know who other people are on here because of the way they consistently handle themselves -- regardless of whether they use a real name or a handle. I don't see why anything else is necessary.

[Kenny Cole]

T206Collector, I guess I'm confused, which is not necessarily unusual. But, if you are speaking for the "silent minority," what does it matter? They are silent. They aren't involved in any controversial posts and therefore don't have to post their names, ever. They have, as we would say where I live, no dog in the fight. If your position is that silence is golden, WTF does it matter what the ultimate resolution to this issue is?

As I understand your position, it shouldn't matter one iota to you whether or not others post their names, or feel that names should be posted, as long as you don't have to post your name. Fair enough. You understand what the rules about that are, and will be. So long as you abide by them, you have no worries.

However, the opposing viewpoint is not really a "clubhouse mentality" IMO, but is, instead, a legitimate expectation that folks shouldn't be allowed to anonymously say stuff on an internet chatboard that they wouldn't say to your face. Kind of a be able to face your accuser mentality. That's my thought, crazy as it might be. Since this post and your response might be kind of controversial, I can understand if you feel that perhaps you should not respond. Have a nice day. Best,

Kenny Cole (my real name)

[hangman62]

I vote for no name.... Its a baseball card blog site !

I dont feel a full name is of any real value, although it would make many think twice before sending off a hate note !

Id be concerned with fear of being labeled a 'baseball card nerd"

I think Leon should continue to rule as he sees fit..after all...its his site

[Rich Klein]

If you just post on the non-controversial threads, you can remain as unknown as that comic was on the Gong Show.

However, if you do post on the threads which are bringing the heat; it is only reasonable to ask that you put your name out there so anyone can know whom is making the comments.

The privacy issue is fine but it's your choice, and I think everyone is clear on that, make comments on subjects such as thoughts on 67 Topps Hi # Short Prints/Double Prints -- and you can be as unknown as you wish

Post on threads such as the recent suit against REA (Rob Lifson) and you better be willing (And I'd bet Rob would make sure of that) to put your name with your post.

No one is saying you can't stay private and no one is saying you have to put your name out there -- but what is being said is that if you put your opinions into controversial threads -- then your identity is being required to be known. Thus, if an issue to you, stay out of the controversial threads -- and I also said if a war breaks out after you make a post in what was intended to be a non-controversial thread and then as long as you were not involved, you don't get damaged in the cross fire.

But, if you saw something construed as controversial, THEN you need to realize you need to take responsibility and be able to called out if needed by name on your views.

I do get the privacy issue, so --- protect your privacy and don't post on certain threads.

Rich

[Rich Klein]

And this is sort of related, but not quite exact.

Back in the early 1990's, when I started at Beckett, the leading way for dealers to communicate with each other was a bulletin board known as sports net. It was a precursor to the hobby boards of today but obviously not as dynamic in terms of immediacy.

One of the more interesting aspects from our end at Beckett was how many dealers at the time would put up posts which could be construed as inflammatory (I may have, but don't think I still do) a sample year's worth of posts about Beckett.

But, the most interesting part about many of those threads was how many people would post whatever they wanted BUT when they actually had to see you face to face, then everything got a bit nicer. That's something else to remember as well, that just because you are not saying something in "3D" to someone's face, that you might not someday see them.

Just a point for anyone who wishes to post in these types of threads

Rich

[Jewish-collector]

Rich,
I will be sure to tell you to your face what I think of you. http://forum.mydyingbride.org/images/smilies/beerchug.gif

[PolarBear]

I think you should require everyone to refer to themselves in the first person.

[GoldenAge50s]

I think you should require everyone to refer to themselves in the first person.

We completely agree.