T206's,who do you consider them to be?

[z28jd]

Case 1: I never noticed one of these until today when I saw the Sporting Life cabinet but the T206 Krueger shows a picture of Otto Krueger taken back in 1902. The problem is he is shown with Columbus in the set which means the player they were going for back then was Art Kruger. Since the card shows Otto in a uniform he never played in, is it really an Art Kruger card or Ott Krueger? You can see the scans here:

http://www.vintagecardprices.com/baseball-card-price-guide.htm?action=keywords&query_results=&cat=1&keywords=krueger

Case 2: Lucky Wright is actually a picture of Eugene Wright, again, a guy pictured in the Sporting Life Cabinet set but the team is Lucky Wright's 1909 team and probably who they intended the card to be,so who is it? Lucky was a redhead as well,plus he wasn't even around the minors in 1902 when the cabinet pic was taken while Eugene was finishing his career in Spokane in 1909 when the t206 set was made

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1212807475/Re-+Can+anyone+tell+me+a+player+that+only+has+one+car %20%20d++and+it%27s+issue

[tjb1952tjb]

It appears that the Sporting News photo is that of William Simmons "Lucky" Wright, and not that of Clarence Eugene "Big Gene" Wright. See these links:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wrighlu01.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=wright015wil

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wrighge02.shtml

"Lucky" Wright did play for the minor league 1909 Toledo Mud Hens.

It seems that the T206 "Lucky" Wright has the correct image, but the Sporting News has the incorrect image for Eugene Wright (that of "Lucky" Wright).

I'm certainly not an expert, so maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can clarify this further. I do see, by browsing Google, there are other images of "Lucky" Wright (the image that appears on the T206) that are attributable to Eugene Wright.....1902 Cleveland team photo seen here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/boston_public_library/2350727638/

It is a bit confusing to me also....hopefully someone will clarify.

Attached is my William Simmons "Lucky" Wright T206:

[terjung]

I'd be far more inclined to think that the Sporting Life (W600) got the image right since it matches the 1902 Horner composite. The Type 2 mount for the W600 is also consistent with the Wright's tenure in Cleveland (1902-1903). So, given that those two "dateable" issues show him, I'd think that the W600 and Horner composite are far more likely to show the Cleveland pitcher correctly - especially since the team composite would receive high scrutiny.

The T206 looks like it is an error showing the Cleveland Blues pitcher from 1902-3 instead of the 1909 minor leaguer from Toledo. I'd be willing to wager that the Baseball Reference page just got the image wrong (probably taking the lead from the incorrect T206).

[z28jd]

I'd be far more inclined to think that the Sporting Life (W600) got the image right since it matches the 1902 Horner composite. The Type 2 mount for the W600 is also consistent with the Wright's tenure in Cleveland (1902-1903). So, given that those two "dateable" issues show him, I'd think that the W600 and Horner composite are far more likely to show the Cleveland pitcher correctly - especially since the team composite would receive high scrutiny.

The T206 looks like it is an error showing the Cleveland Blues pitcher from 1902-3 instead of the 1909 minor leaguer from Toledo. I'd be willing to wager that the Baseball Reference page just got the image wrong (probably taking the lead from the incorrect T206).

This is likely right since most t206's were from previous Horner photos and also the fact that Lucky Wright was also a redhead,the picture on the Sporting Life card clearly shows someone with dark hair

[tjb1952tjb]

Then who is this photo?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wrighge02.shtml

[rhettyeakley]

Colgan's has several similar tales...

http://www.starsofthediamond.com/e254jordanbrooklyn.JPG http://www.starsofthediamond.com/e254jordanlouisville.JPG http://www.starsofthediamond.com/e254jordanatlanta.JPG

Obviously, all three cards depict Tim Jordan BUT the card with Atlanta is intending to depict Otto "Dutch" Jordan (T206 Southern Leaguer)

http://www.starsofthediamond.com/e254kelly.JPG

The Colgan's people were intending to depict Toronto Manager (and HOFer) Joe Kelley but instead they got Newark Manager Jack Kelly's image on there.

http://www.starsofthediamond.com/e254murray.JPG http://www.starsofthediamond.com/e254murraystpaul.JPG

Obviously, both cards depict the New York Giants' Red Murray BUT the St. Paul player was intended to be James Murray

http://www.starsofthediamond.com/e254smithatlanta.JPG http://www.starsofthediamond.com/e254smithbuffalo.JPG http://www.starsofthediamond.com/e254smithmontreal.JPG

In this case the player for Atlanta correctly pictures and lists the correct team for Sid Smith (T206 Southern Leaguer). Unfortunately they reused the same image to depict George "Heinie" Smith who was with Buffalo, when George later went to Montreal they re-issued him with a correct photo on his new card, thus the Montreal card is that of George and depicts the correct player.

http://www.starsofthediamond.com/e254ryan.JPG

Perhaps the biggest screw up was with "Ryan, St. Paul". The St. Paul players name was Jack "Gulfport" Ryan but the manufacturers used a 1902 photo of the old time ballplayer Jimmy Ryan (the N172 Old Judge player, and the same image on his Breisch-Williams card). Thus, is this a Jimmy Ryan card? a Jack Ryan card? or perhaps a little of both?

[Bridwell]

Great info on Art Kruger. My standard catalog shows the T206 as Otto Kruger but I believe now that they have made an error. The error was easy to make, given that the picture on the card was adapted from a photo of Otto Krueger. Furthermore, both men's given first name was Arthur.

The catalog should say that the T206 card is of Art Kruger was played on Columbus in 1908-09. Note the spelling of the last name without the 'e' on the card. If the card was intended to be a card of Art Kruger, it should be listed in the catalog as such. Even though the designers of the card incorrectly created the picture from artwork of Otto, it is still a card of Art Kruger. Good find!

[mrvster]

Johnny!!

Great thread!!!:)

[Runscott]

Here's a thread containing previous insight into the Kruger T206 card. Frank's discovery of a photo with what looks to be family (or friend) confirmation on the back, kind of seals the deal.

John - please create some pages for me to add/link to my website, for other T206 players such as Wright. I would love to gather all of this research that has been done, but counting on the creators to point me to it (and give their permission). Thanks!

[irishdenny]

Tim,

That iS OnE Smokin' White Border.... "WoW!!!"

If You Have the Time & a Scan of the Back, I would Love to see why it's Not at Least a "7"...

TIA....

[frankbmd]

New thread. Same subject.

[Runscott]

New thread. Same subject.

Frank, etc - this is a thread from March of last year that I have resurrected because it has info similar to what you posted in the new Kruger/Krueger thread.

But I was also interested in the Wright stuff, and was hoping that resurrecting this thread would encourage someone to organize this info in a meaningful way, so that I could create a Wright page on my website.

None forthcoming, I will do it myself. This is very esoteric stuff, so I certainly wasn't expecting much reaction, but as long as a few of us are interested in the history of the cards and players, I'll keep running with it.

[tedzan]

The Standard Catalog identifies all three Camnitz cards in the T206 set as "Howie". My understanding is
that one of the 2 cards in the 460-only series (shown below) is that of Howie's younger brother "Harry".


Samuel Howard (Howie) Camnitz ...... 150/350 series card
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/harryxhowiecamnitz75x.jpg
Henry Richardson (Harry) Camnitz ...... 460-only series card


I'll post the 3rd Camnitz card (460-only series) later.


TED Z