1949 Leaf Ruth variation??? or slabbed reprints????

[fkw]

Im no expert on the 1949 Leaf cards, but I think this is a reprint in this SGC slab. at least Ive though these were reprints for the last few years...

or.... there are 2 variations of this card and a good number of the reprints are based on this one?????????????????????????????????

For years I tell people to look for the added red line at border where Ruth's shoulders meet the border.... this is one of the few different types of Leaf reprints and the easiest to spot for any newbie.


http://cgi.ebay.com/120696789684 (look for red line that divides Ruth's shoulders from border)

edited to say I found a single PSA slab (google images) with this same type of card, so now I question if its not a variation now??? Not that PSA doesnt screw up at time... haha

Ted Z. where are you :)

[fkw]

Please tell me Im all wrong on this...
....so I can edit the title to say "New Variation Discovered" or something like that :)

But then I'll look like a fool for pointing this out a very easy way to spot fakes...
Not the first time, if so :p

[fkw]

Here is the PSA slab with the same type of card...

I see it is an eBay auction that ended for big $$
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=200579588886+&si=0oD0YqWYnZMIwIe4wLMB7jNhwDw%253D&viewitem=


then you have this auction for the same exact card/slab (buyer flipping card above?)
http://cgi.ebay.com/PSA-8-BABE-RUTH-1948-LEAF-48-49-BASEBALL-CARD-5250-SMR_W0QQitemZ290541070701QQcategoryZ213QQcmdZViewI temQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSIC%26it s%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252 BUFI%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D200579588886%26ps%3D63%26 clkid%3D7683086359567326775

[cozmokramer]

Most others listed on eBay do not have the lines, however there is another PSA 8 listed for 4700 that has it.

[fkw]

Im digging too for scans ... that same PSA-8 sold for $4000+ March 1st too
(I now have links to both auctions above)

Levi @ 707 has a PSA-3 with the same lines,
http://cgi.ebay.com/1948-Leaf-3-Babe-Ruth-PSA-3-4089-/370331622131?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item56397c1af3

so now its 2 PSA and 1 SGC slabs that have this type of card.
Im going to change the title as to not rip SGC if this is in fact a true variation

Maybe I learned something new today :)

[glynparson]

I would rather make a judgement with card in hand. Ruth is far and away the easiest card from the set to locate so he could easily be a double or triple print. which could lead to multiple printing differences. This set has so many different little anomalies I would never want to make an absolute statement off of a scan.

[leaflover]

I went thru my set and checked the cards with similar poses like the Ruth card. Philley, Stevens, Schmitz, Grove, Brecheen and Mitchell all had "broad shoulders". No background color is visible between the shoulders and the border. These cards all happen to be "SP's". The only card with color showing(narrow shoulders) was Jackie Robinson. Robinson is a regular print like the Ruth.

[tedzan]

I've seen that printing anomaly on several 1949 LEAF BB cards. Not often with the Ruth card,
but it's there and it's an original authentic LEAF card.

Note this same effect on my Johnny Hopp card. Also, it is a color printing error like the Ruth
you are questioning. Both cards are not the usual RED, but a "violet" color.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/baberuth49.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/ab1949leafhopp.jpg" alt="[linked image]">


I hope I have allayed your concern regarding the Ruth card on ebay.

TED Z

[fkw]

Thanks all :)

Thanks Ted for showing that Hopp card.

Oh well I got to go and edit a post I made a few weeks back on another board on how to tell a fake Leaf Ruth from an authentic one. I mentioned the red lines as a way to tell 1 of the reprints, but its now not 100%.

BTW if you google images you'll see many of the true reprints (fakes) of the Ruth is a copy of the red line card.

[ls7plus]

Thanks, Frank and Ted, for some valuable info. That's the thing I like about this forum: people are so inquisitive, have so much knowledge, and things that are not so easy to determine get nailed down when we use each other as a sounding board.

Frank, better that you brought it up than not. You're one of the guys whose brain I like to tap into.

Larry

[tedzan]

You got my curiosity aroused, so I looked through my entire set (98 cards plus the 3 variations)....and, approx. 70 duplicates.
It appears that only the Ruth and Hopp cards may exhibit this "non-tangential shoulder" anomaly. Here are my 4 Johnny Hopp
cards. And by mere coincidence, the top 2 cards reflect their normal printing. While the bottom 2 exhibit this printing anomaly.

Regarding the Ruth card, I have seen several 100 Ruth cards in my time. Of them, I've seen only 4 with this printing anomaly.


<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/1949leafjohnnyhopp4.jpg" alt="[linked image]">


Best regards,

TED Z

[steve B]

My Johnny Hopp has the red line, and also has an offset transfer of red on the back. Pretty cool to see another.

Brissie also has a shoulder line or not, and Weigel has a line over the bat.

Steve B
http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=3315
http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=3316

[tedzan]

There appears to be a pattern emerging here with this "printing anomaly" on these LEAF cards.

The cards that are printed with the "pinkish violet" color (instead of the normal RED color) have
this flaw.

Examples given......Ruth, Hopp, Brissie, Weigel.


TED Z

[steve B]

I'd noticed that with my two, but a sample size of 2 was just too small to be sure.

Scans can be deceptive on color. The Hopp on the right with the line looks red on my screen. It it actually pinkish?

The Hopp with line is also has a different black printing as well, the black line on the shoulder is missing. (Plus a tiny cropping difference)

I'm thinking the pink ones were a different print run with different plates.

I only have a few, but to me this set is fascinating. Skip numbered with a whole short printed series, plus a bunch of odd variations like these that are quality control isues in the design department. And then there's the missing colors and other problems in the actual production.

Steve B

[kingdomvintage]

Hey guys,

Could you tell me if this 1948-49 Leaf Ruth looks authentic? I have one in a PSA graded slab and to me they look almost exactly the same. This one is just a little brighter/cleaner on the back. The main reason I am even asking is because I bought this card on ebay from a guy with only 80 feedbacks and 1 week after buying it he listed tons more from the same Leaf set. 2 more Ruth's, 2 Jackie Robinson's and tons of commons...

It looks, feels, and even smells real... it's just the seller I'm questioning I guess...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1949-Leaf-3-Babe-Ruth-1-/291242456330?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=7g%252BRbCy9fJzhGLo3YtkwaODfbYY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

[BdelcastHOU]

I found this Ruth Leaf along with a 1932 Sanella Babe Ruth and a 1933 Goodey Carl Hubbel. Because of the three being together, I’m inclined to believe the Leaf card is real, but would love to have an opinion from you experts. This one has the red lines on the side. Does that indicate a possible reprint or a more rare version of the real thing?
336394

336395

336396

336397

[swarmee]

http://www.net54baseball.com/forum/content/archivecenter.html
Read the links at the bottom and then inspect your card with a loupe (magnifying glass) and see what type of printing process it was made with.