T card era cigarette packs [Archive] - Net54baseball.com Forums

Leon

02-20-2011, 11:44 AM

The packs did fairly well in the B and L auction last night. The EPDG pack went for approx. $400 (after juice), the Piedmont went for over $200 and most of the other packs went for fairly strong money. No doubt the correct over stamps play a part. Has anyone else noticed an up tick in the market for them? They are infinitely scarcer than our beloved cards and now they seem to be getting the "love" they deserve? Any others seeing that?

wolfdogg

02-20-2011, 01:32 PM

This thread reminded me........I found a Victory Tobacco pouch at a flea market. The little "baggy" type with the string. Is this the package the cards were issued in? Or were they in the packs like the pix above? The back of the Victory cards have the quote "A Good Smoke and A Good Chew". Any ideas?

ethicsprof

02-20-2011, 01:39 PM

I'm mighty happy to hear that the T era packs, pouchs, boxes are finally getting their due. I have 21 beauties framed in my office, largely due to the great tutelage of Jon Canfield, and am still in awe of each and every one---
particularly my unopened Polar Bear pouch and unopened Obak pack.

I, too, watched happily as the packs' numbers rose on last night's auction.

all the best,
barry

jimonym

02-20-2011, 04:07 PM

50-pack American Beauty carton. No, not full, alas.

http://www.jimonym.com/3lot3.jpg

peterb69

02-20-2011, 05:29 PM

I was bidding on the EPGD pack as it was the 1st one I've seen. Congrats to the winner. It was 1 bid to rich for me.

Mollys Dad

02-20-2011, 06:04 PM

This is definitely in Jon Canfield's wheelhouse.

joeadcock

02-20-2011, 06:16 PM

Hello Leon and Barry

Barry, this is Obak pack I have. Is yours similar?
Sounds like you have quite a collection.

Frank

Leon

02-20-2011, 06:28 PM

I love collecting the packs but I defer to Jon and a few others for their research. I have done a tiny bit, he and a few others have done a ton.....here are a few more. I really need to do an update to my site as I have quite a few not listed anywhere...(shown before but apropos)

rdwyer

02-20-2011, 08:45 PM

I was watching the bids on them also. The only one I wanted was the Dogs Head pack. Wasn't interested in all the other stuff that was in that particular auction, so I didn't bid. Surprised it didn't go for more. I put my boxes up on photobucket:

http://s642.photobucket.com/albums/uu142/rdwyer/T206%20Boxes/

ethicsprof

02-20-2011, 08:48 PM

many thanks.
yours is quite a beauty.
mine is very similar to yours except mine says ---Manufactured by
LIGGETT&MYERS TOBACCO CO.---
where yours says U S Pat. Off.

As Leon says---I Love them. Great tributary in the avocation methinks.
all the best, ole buddy
barry

Pup6913

02-20-2011, 09:10 PM

The Fatima did contain a card and still has a fully intact tax stamp the others are just neat. Wish I was home to post my whole collection of packs, pouches, tins.

canjond

02-20-2011, 10:12 PM

Some favorites...

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/jon_canfield/Cigarette%20Packs/Obak.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/jon_canfield/Cigarette%20Packs/GQ.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/jon_canfield/Cigarette%20Packs/OldMillPackinWax.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/jon_canfield/Cigarette%20Packs/LoneJackclose.jpg

peterb69

02-21-2011, 06:43 AM

This is a nice thread. I'm seeing photos for the 1st time on some of them.

Question on the Drum pouch......Is the photo shown the actual way T205/T206 cards were distrubuted?

Thanks

canjond

02-21-2011, 08:58 AM

Nope (99.9% no) - T206s were distributed in a Drum cigarette box. To date, only one original Drum cigarette box is known to exist, and it predates the distribution of T206s (dates to 1898 or so). The pouches were made by the ATC, too, but not used for distribution.

T3s

02-21-2011, 11:54 AM

Hi,
Thought I'd throw these into the mix.

Bridwell

02-21-2011, 07:25 PM

I have quite a few, and really like collecting them.

Ease

02-21-2011, 07:25 PM

Wow those turkey reds look good enough to fire one up! I absolutely love the gypsy queen box, they dont make stuff like they used to. Thanx for sharing these.

teetwoohsix

02-21-2011, 10:21 PM

I hope this isn't a dumb question, but where were these packs, cartons, etc. being printed and manufactured- at the distribution factories ? Did the ALC have some part in the printing ? I tried to do some searching but wasn't coming up with anything.

Quite awhile back a board member posted something that mentioned the factories having printing equiptment at the locations.......any help would be appreciated- thanks.

Sincerely, Clayton

Edit to add without bumping thread........I have been searching the archives and also went to Jon's excellent website, but didn't see anything about where the printing of these packages were done. I've brought up printing at the factories before, and got no responses. This must be a taboo subject :confused:;):D

willworkforT206

02-22-2011, 10:10 PM

I'm not proud to admit it, but I'm the high bidder on the EPDG pack in the B&L Auction. I paid way more than I wanted because I apparently got in a bidding war with peterb69, but I'm still happy with my purchase!

I wanted to upgrade my existing EPDG pack, which has a 1901 tax stamp with no overprint date information. As an avid T206 collector, the date info is very important to me as I would like to try and obtain packs as close to the T206-era as possible (I reaiize it's not an exact science).

What's interesting to me about the EPDG pack in the B&L Auction is that it has 1901 tax stamp with a 1910 date overprint. I'm no expert but I thought 1901 tax stamps had date overprints between only 1901 and 1908.

Here's my modest T card era cigarette pack collection. I've only been collecting them for a couple of years now, so it's just a start.

Jon Canfield - thanks for the education you provide through your very informative website. Much appreciated!

BTW, the EPDG pack shown in the scan is available for TRADE if anyone is interested. I know it's a long shot, but I'd trade it for a T206-era pack that I don't have, preferably Cycle, Old Mill, Polar Bear, American Beauty or Tolstoi. I can throw in cash or cards if needed. E-mail me at sschris@att.net if interested.

Steve

Leon

02-22-2011, 10:32 PM

I've brought up printing at the factories before, and got no responses. This must be a taboo subject :confused:;):D

It's not taboo. Looking at the Lone Jack pack here, it says where it was made. I would guess many, if not most, brands of cigarettes had their packs physically made in different places. The Kotton one says "Allied Printing" on the bottom...so it looks like many packs might hold the answer themselves.

Vol

02-22-2011, 10:49 PM

This is one of my favorite threads ever started.
Thanks for all the pictures fellas.

canjond

02-22-2011, 11:12 PM

Steve - congrats on the EPDG. They don't come up for sale all that often, so I certainly don't think the price was out of line - especially with the dating. As for your question regarding tax stamps, you're assumption regarding 1901 stamps is correct. Although it's the general rule, it doesn't apply in all scenarios. Overprints were used, in part, to obviate the need for printing new stamps every year. Although probably not to frequent, it is entirely conceivable that a 1901 tax was used in 1910.

canjond

02-22-2011, 11:17 PM

Few more favorites....

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/jon_canfield/Cigarette%20Packs/Creole-eBay.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/jon_canfield/Cigarette%20Packs/Creole-JimShaw.jpg

rman444

02-23-2011, 01:41 AM

Leon - I still love that Kotton pack!

rman444

02-23-2011, 01:46 AM

teetwoohsix

02-23-2011, 02:21 AM

It's not taboo. I am not sure anyone knows who physically produced the packs or at least I don't remember seeing it. And I should add that looking at the Lone Jack pack here, it says where it was made. I would guess many, if not most, brands of cigarettes had their packs physically made in different places.

Thanks for the response Leon, I appreciate it.

Sincerely, Clayton

pete zouras

02-23-2011, 05:15 AM

smokelessjoe

02-23-2011, 05:52 AM

While not from the T206 era, still a neat advertisement from the Drummond Tobacco Company. It has helped me in researching Drum Cigarettes though. Shown this many times before...

Thinking of selling this as well, not sure if Ebay or an auction house. Probably not worth putting the lot in an auction house would be my guess?

MAY BE SIMILAR TO THE DRUM PACKS WITH T206s?
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/Baseball/drumF1B.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/Baseball/drumB1B.jpg

POSTER IS HUGE.... 18" WIDE BY 2 FEET TALL
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/Baseball/JT.jpg

THIS IS THE ENVELOPE THAT ALL OF THE ABOVE CAME IN.
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/smokelessjoe/Baseball/Dev1.jpg

DixieBaseball

02-23-2011, 09:07 AM

Ok, not exactly T era, but probably more scarce than some T era packs. (Circa 70-80's - Verly limited production) - Thought this belonged in this thread since most Tobacco brands are represented, and I wanted to make sure Factory 3 had some representation... There you go, Mr. Irby.

rdwyer

02-23-2011, 09:38 AM

canjond

02-23-2011, 10:12 AM

I would like to see Jon Canfield update his pricing on T206 packs. The last time he did so was his book: "Baseball & Tobacco-A Guide to collecting early tobacco related cigarette & tobacco packs". This book was written many years ago.

Richard - probably won't happen any time soon. in fact, the book was never intended to be used as a price guide. Simply put, its intention was to depict each pack that a card would have come in. The pricing on the website is more up to date than the guide, but the pricing on these packs has gone up lately (much greater interest).

Hot Springs Bathers

02-23-2011, 02:08 PM

Dpes anyone have any stories about pulling a T card from a pack?

I remember back in the silly days of baseball cards (late 80s-early 90s) you always read about guys opening 1950s packs at shows. It would be fun to hear about some T card pulls!

canjond

02-23-2011, 02:15 PM

Mike,

While I wasn't the one who pulled it, the card pictured with the Obak pack above came directly out of it. I've also seen someone pull a triplefolder from a Hassan pack, and know that in the 1980s, a few board members opened some Honest Long Cut packs for the T205s.

In addition, there is the famous Old Judge story where a man pulled an Old Judge card directly out of the pack at the East Coast National (I believe). SGC graded it on the spot as a 98 Gem Mint 10.

Hot Springs Bathers

02-23-2011, 02:25 PM

Thanks Jon, I do remember the Old Judge story. I am surprised that the tobacco did not stain the contents. Wish I had seen it happen.

About two weeks ago I picked up a sealed pack of Home Run cigarettes from Liggett & Meyer. They appear to be from the 1960s or 70s. While I am not a smoker I have worked in the candy and tobacco wholesale business for over 20 years and had never heard of them.

canjond

02-23-2011, 03:05 PM

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/jon_canfield/1-1.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/jon_canfield/2-1.jpg

canjond

02-23-2011, 03:06 PM

Another neat one...

http://baseballandtobacco.com/images/contentnea.gif

Hot Springs Bathers

02-23-2011, 03:30 PM

Great stuff Jon!

mkdltn

02-23-2011, 05:13 PM

I found this in a google book search, the discussion of packaging cigarettes starts on page 90. On page 97 the coupon card inserts are discussed. The date on this is 1916. Interesting stuff. Keep the pictures coming!

http://books.google.com/books?id=LitIAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA69&dq=cigarette+manufacturing&hl=en&ei=wptlTc5-i_qwA8K_9O4E&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDIQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=cigarette%20manufacturing&f=false

teetwoohsix

02-23-2011, 11:44 PM

Leon

02-24-2011, 07:15 AM

One of two known...

rman444

02-24-2011, 09:47 AM

D. Broughman

02-25-2011, 12:38 PM

Compliments of Drummond Tobacco Co. Copyright 1885 Compton Litho. Co. St Louis Trade Card. I'm glad they went to baseball cards.:D

sb1

02-25-2011, 03:54 PM

My specialty packs

jerrys

02-25-2011, 07:29 PM

http://home.roadrunner.com/~jspillman/packs.htm

This article, which is a copy of my original submission to SCD in 2005, has been on my web site since that time. With the exception of the N175 I believe what I wrote then is still correct. If anyone can advance any input to it I would appreciate it.

rdwyer

02-25-2011, 09:47 PM

Nice read. Thanks for contributing.

canjond

02-25-2011, 11:59 PM

Jerry - long time no see. Hope all is well. I certainly think you are correct that the N175 pack shown is not correct. By my last count, I knew of 2 that existed, and both date to pre-1883. The style was dropped after that and the more "plain" style was used.

Prior to tracking down the 2 original ones, I had thought the ornate style may have been used for distribution, too.

jerrys

02-26-2011, 07:53 PM

Jon, I didn’t see you at the October Hempstead Show.

I’ve never seen any representation of a Four Base Hits pack but I was able to get a somewhat distorted and blurry image of one side of a Buchner pack by cropping and magnifing a scan of a Buchner sign. The pack pictures the reverse of four overlapping US Gold Coins; a twenty, a ten, a five and a two and a half. It reads Gold Coin Chewing Tobacco in gold letters with a black background.

bijoem

02-28-2011, 07:07 PM

1910 Polar Bear tobacco.

I opened this up about 20 years ago (I think it was that long ago) - hoping to find a T206 card. No card. But the tobacco is still there.

http://www.internetville.com/images/albums/userpics/normal_polarFront.jpg

http://www.internetville.com/images/albums/userpics/normal_polarTop.jpg

canjond

02-28-2011, 07:46 PM

Beautiful PB packl. I'm pretty sure that red overprint on the tax stamp probably dates the pack to the 1920s though. I can't see the date with the wrapping around it, but its a guess.

bijoem

02-28-2011, 08:07 PM

wow Jon - you really know your stuff!

I never noticed a date on the red stamp (I was going by the printed "1910" on the label).

Now that you mentioned 1920s.....

The last line of the stamp is cut off....
but it does look like a date -
and it sure does look like the top of the numbers "1921"
Probably "Feb" also.

http://www.internetville.com/images/albums/userpics/polarTop2.jpg

ethicsprof

02-28-2011, 09:24 PM

nice polar bear back!
mine is still unopened--and the only reason it is, is because i had it framed it immediately.
and my wife will never allow tearing up these fancy frames!!!
all the best,
barry

Bridwell

03-01-2011, 10:10 PM

That waxy paper on the Polar Bear pack reminds me of other cigarette and tobacco packs from the 1920s. It seems to me the wax paper wrapping came into vogue between 1917-1920, but was not seen on T206 era packs of any brand. Can anyone confirm? If true, this is a good tip towards dating packs, in the absence of a specific date overstamped.

canjond

03-02-2011, 07:34 AM

Ron - unfortunately that is not entirely the case. Wax paper was used dating pack to the 1880s. For example, the unopened Old Mill box I pictured above dates to 1898, and has a complete wax paper wrapping.

canjond

03-02-2011, 07:36 AM

To keep the thread going!...

http://baseballandtobacco.com/images/oldjudge.gif

DixieBaseball

03-02-2011, 06:43 PM

Coupon :

rdwyer

03-04-2011, 01:51 PM

Tired of paying money for a GAI label that says nothing. I've decided to break out all my boxes out of their GAI holders and have them shrinkwrapped instead. I'll put labels on them when done.

Pup6913

03-05-2011, 06:03 AM

did this contain anything??????

canjond

03-05-2011, 06:48 AM

Andrew - unfortunately no, but nice companion piece. The N300s came in single-tired Mayo lunchboxes.

Bridwell

03-05-2011, 11:22 AM

Hey Jon,

Is there any evidence that N300s were issued as a lunchbox insert? There was also a tobacco pack at that time that seems a possibility for an insert.

canjond

03-05-2011, 12:35 PM

Ron,

No definitive proof on either front, but here is what I've been told and/or know. There is evidence that the position cards came in the Mayo pouches (in the form of a story of a pouch being opened in the ate 90's and a position card being pulled out). As for the Mayo tins, there is an article appearing in paper around the 1900s discussing how 5 baseball subjects were packaged in lunchbox tins. While I do not believe that Mayo was named in the article, it is the only brand that ever produced lunchbox tobacco tins and baseball cards. Of note, however, is I do not believe the article mentioned boxing cards or other Mayo issues.

- Jon

Cerberus

03-13-2011, 08:30 PM

..............primarily to keep this thread going, as the packs are my current passion. Let's keep it going.

34722

34724

34725

Cerberus

03-14-2011, 03:42 PM

...................that would spoil all the fun.

Ease

03-14-2011, 03:51 PM

Great stuff Cerberus!

Karb

03-14-2011, 05:57 PM

Package of Plow Boy

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/karb_916/Picture001-1.jpg

DJR

03-14-2011, 08:19 PM

Cerberus

03-15-2011, 01:53 PM

.........................here's another:

ethicsprof

03-15-2011, 02:25 PM

great stuff!!!
thanks for sharing.
and welcome aboard!!!

all the best,
barry

Cerberus

03-15-2011, 02:32 PM

Thanks, Barry. I'm waiting for you to post a picture of the framed display in your office, to help keep the thread going. I'll try to post every day or two, "while supplies last." All the best,

Michael

docpatlv

03-15-2011, 04:01 PM

Cerberus,

I'll bump the thread for you. Not a rare cig box, but the stamps are a little tougher.

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/docpatadc/zHelmarClamShellBoxA.jpg http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr248/docpatadc/1911zHelmarCobbEnvelope.jpg

Mike

canjond

03-15-2011, 04:22 PM

http://baseballandtobacco.com/images/lenox.gif

Leon

03-15-2011, 08:10 PM

coupons.....(they can be seen better on my site....)

ksfarmboy

03-15-2011, 08:41 PM

Cool thread. Here's my Piedmont box.

ethicsprof

03-15-2011, 11:58 PM

sorry about my computer illiteracy but ole barry sloate and i are two dinosaurs who have been on the board forever who can't scan.
almost all of my pieces were bought from my great friend, Jon Canfield, who has taught me everything i know about the packs,pouches,etc.
Please accept my applause in lieu of my scans.
all the best,
barry

Cerberus

03-16-2011, 11:18 AM

I love the Helmar stamp Cobb, Mike and, particularly, the glassine envelope. I'll post my Helmar display somewhere down the line. Jon's scarce Lenox box is amazing, as is Leon's extensive collection of redemption coupons. Barry, I have pm'd you, re your self-proclaimed status as a non-tech savvy dinosaur.

Now, for today's offering--I can actually feel what must now be the "petrified" (speaking about dinosaurs) gum, rattling around inside the tin. It's "frozen" shut, and I'm not about to take a pair of vice-grips to it, even if the situation calls for a "delicious digestive":

sb1

03-16-2011, 05:34 PM

Here is a Ramly coupon for which you get a Ramly premium for ONLY 40 box fronts or 10 and 16 cents and get a large paper premium. Also shown is the only known paper premium.

jimonym

03-16-2011, 05:49 PM

http://www.jimonym.com/Sheet1.jpg

Cerberus

03-17-2011, 09:27 AM

That Ramly premium is a beautiful piece, sb1. Jim's uncut sheet of Piedmont boxes, is unique, as well.

I had considered picking up one of those B-18 blankets on ebay a few months ago, with the blue "umbilical cord" still attached, but opted for the Cobb for display purposes, instead:

jimonym

03-17-2011, 11:06 AM

Actually... I have two of them. :)

Vol

03-17-2011, 11:54 AM

Actually... I have two of them. :)

Very cool sheet. Have never seen anything like that. :eek:

canjond

03-17-2011, 12:27 PM

Couple more....

http://baseballandtobacco.com/images/tolstoi.gif
http://baseballandtobacco.com/images/cycle.gif

canjond

03-17-2011, 12:29 PM

This pack does not belong to me, but one of my favorite!

http://baseballandtobacco.com/images/uzit.gif

ethicsprof

03-17-2011, 04:54 PM

i love the Uzit,ole buddy.
when ya gonna find 2 of them?!! :)
all the best,
barry

rdwyer

03-17-2011, 05:21 PM

Freedom from GAI slabs. Shrink wrapped for protection.

Jaybird

03-17-2011, 07:49 PM

Nice packs! Just curious, how did you get them shrink-wrapped?

rdwyer

03-17-2011, 08:45 PM

I shrink wrapped them at Office Depot. Staples might. .75 cents each. Perfect, because the tobacco won't leak out anymore. (Especially the Honest Long Cut)

Cerberus

03-18-2011, 11:33 AM

Today's Offering:

Cerberus

03-19-2011, 10:31 AM

..........I really love the way Junior Gilliam's picture "pops" on this card. And yes, the cellophane wrap is original:

Cerberus

03-20-2011, 11:59 AM

The only problem with having acquired this unopened pack, is that now I must locate and spring for an S-81 Silk, or an L-1 Leather, to display with it! Rough life.

Big Six

03-20-2011, 12:43 PM

..........I really love the way Junior Gilliam's picture "pops" on this card. And yes, the cellophane wrap is original:

That's just damn awesome!!!

Cerberus

03-20-2011, 12:50 PM

Believe it or not, when I acquired the Gilliam, I just missed out on a Mantle (sealed NM), in a private sale. Been kicking myself for 3 years.

canjond

03-20-2011, 04:39 PM

The only problem with having acquired this unopened pack, is that now I must locate and spring for an S-81 Silk, or an L-1 Leather, to display with it! Rough life.

I picked this up from a board member a while back. While it certainly isn't the prettiest Turkish Trophies I have in my collection, it's neat in that it retains the original "Base Ball Prints" notice.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/jon_canfield/Cigarette%20Packs/band.jpg

Here's the "Ad" to go with it... (note: I do not own this Ad)

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/jon_canfield/Cigarette%20Packs/TurkishTrophiesAdvertisement.jpg

canjond

03-20-2011, 04:42 PM

Carton label from a case of 20 packs of Tolstoi

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/jon_canfield/Cigarette%20Packs/tolstoi.jpg

Cerberus

03-22-2011, 05:49 PM

Smoking can be hazardous to your health............

Cerberus

03-23-2011, 03:36 PM

Sir, would you prefer the hard, or the soft pack?

willworkforT206

03-24-2011, 11:04 PM

Can anyone tell me the approximate dimensions of T206 era Polar Bear pack/pouch? I've never seen one in person. In scans they look pretty big - maybe three or four times bigger than a 10-count cigarette pack. The tax stamps on a Polar Bear pack/pouch seem to be bigger as well. Are they comparable to the size of an T205 era Honest Long Cut pack/pouch?

Thanks.

Steve

ethicsprof

03-24-2011, 11:37 PM

mine are framed but i can help you a wee bit with measurements.
the pouch is full of tobacco and unopened and is 3 and six sixteenths by
4 and fourteen sixteenths.
the sweet cap is 1 and nine sixteenths by 2 and fourteen sixteenths.
yes, the pouch is quite a bit larger; you can see the ratio.
others may fill in the gaps.
all the best,
barry

Cerberus

03-24-2011, 11:58 PM

As you surmised, Steve, and as Barry confirmed, the Polar Bear pack is indeed noticeably larger than the Honest Long Cut. The tax stamp/band is also larger, and longer, as you suggested.

I measured the packs roughly and found the Polar Bear to approximate 4 7/8" x 3 1/4" x 1 1/4". The HLC pictured below, approximates 4 1/4" x 2 5/8" x 1 1/8". Take a look below:

willworkforT206

03-25-2011, 08:30 AM

Barry and Cerberus - thanks for the Polar Bear pack/pouch size details. That's very helpful.

Now if I could just get my hands on one!

Steve

canjond

03-25-2011, 08:35 AM

Here's another rare one - similar in size to the Polar Bear pouch...

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/jon_canfield/IMG_1148.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/jon_canfield/IMG_1150.jpg

Leon

03-25-2011, 09:49 AM

Here's another rare one - similar in size to the Polar Bear pouch...

Hey Jon
That is a great Miner's Extra pack. Do you know if a card might have come in it?

canjond

03-25-2011, 10:35 AM

Leon- this is the only style Miner's Extra I have ever seen (and I have only seen 5 or 6 of them at that). However, dating the pack is particularly troublesome as the tax stamps do not bear dates or overprinting. I actually have two of them - the one pictured and one that is just a tad nicer. I bought them 10 years apart, and both are the same (ie, no definitive date).

Cerberus

03-25-2011, 11:29 AM

............beautiful Miner's Extra pack. In that you have two of them, do we feel a "you-tube public pack opening," coming on? All the best,

Michael

canjond

03-25-2011, 04:18 PM

Michael - Nope... never had the desire :-) I'll leave that to someone else!

E93

03-26-2011, 05:38 PM

People have posted some incredible stuff here. I just scanned my pack collection, such as it is.
JimB

http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/9502/tobaccopacks.jpg (http://img861.imageshack.us/i/tobaccopacks.jpg/)

canjond

03-26-2011, 07:42 PM

Jim - that's a great looking Victory pouch.

Cerberus

03-27-2011, 03:07 PM

Very nice packs, Jim. Anyone ready for a Sunday smoke?

Ease

03-27-2011, 03:10 PM

So now that its over I guess we can talk about it:
packs (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=180640808223&si=2Yt0UkaUqgmFRK4jmqnejdpOAfc%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT)
I know i saw a broadleaf, hindu, drum, american beauty, cycle and some other cool ones. Thoughts?

canjond

03-27-2011, 03:36 PM

Beautiful lot which appeared to have the only correct 10-count Drum I have ever seen. In addition, it had the only period Red Sun I have ever seen, although it was partially obscured in the picture.

Unfortunately only the outer shells, but a neat collection nonetheless!

ethicsprof

03-27-2011, 04:17 PM

i was sure hoping that you'd be the winner of this one, ole buddy!!

all the best,
barry

canjond

03-27-2011, 04:21 PM

Thanks Barry but not I. I do hope the winner is a board member as I'd love to see scans of some of the lot.

rman444

03-27-2011, 11:21 PM

E93

03-28-2011, 12:34 AM

Richard,
Amazing Victory collection!
JimB

rdwyer

04-06-2011, 10:24 AM

tedzan

04-08-2011, 09:04 AM

Now that most of us have posted pictures of their packs, I would like to see how many have the right stuff. Do you have a pack that has the right info?

For example: My Old Mill box has Factory 25 2nd District Virginia with overprinting of June 12, 1911 for the date. According to Robert Forbes book of American Tobacco cards T16, T42, and T80 had Old Mill backs. But they were either made in a different year, or had different factories. So without a doubt, this pack had a T206 card in it when distributed.

By the Summer of 1911, American Lithographic (ALC) was printing their Gold-Bordered cards (T42-Birds, T80-Military Series, and T205-BB, etc.) The last production runs
of T206 cards were in the Spring of 1911. We have ALC documentation to this effect. In March 1911, ALC was intermixing their dwindling stock of T206 cards with T80
cards in UZIT packs.
Therefore, I would guess that your OLD MILL pack contained T42 cards or T80 cards. These two non-sports series were inserted in OLD MILL packs at the Richmond, VA
plant (Factory #25). Incidently, the T80's with an OLD MILL back are very tough to find.
And, your pack certainly did not contain T205's, as T205's were not printed with OLD MILL backs

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/alenoxuzitmilitaryseries.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/bt80uscaptainturkcommander.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

TED Z

rdwyer

04-08-2011, 04:51 PM

Tedzan:

Unable to scan pages from Robert Forbes book. But it states that "T42's were printed late 1910 and early 1911". T80's "were probably issued around 1910-11". Also T80's with the Old Mill back were unnumbered.

If you have further info, I would like to see it.

tedzan

04-08-2011, 07:09 PM

It's my understanding that the White-bordered T42 cards were issued in 1910. Then American Litho. (ALC) followed with
their Gold-bordered version of the T42 cards in 1911, of which OLD MILL was one of the T-brand backs.

The T80 cards are not a 1910 issue. Two ALC letters, dated Feb 16, 1911 and Mar 18, 1911, specifying that a T80 card
and a T206 card were to be inserted in each LENOX, TOLSTOI, and UZIT packs containing 10 cigarettes each. All three
of these cigarette brands were produced in Factory #30 (NYC). The other two brands associated with T80's are CAIRO
MONOPOL and OLD MILL. However, T80's with these two backs are very scarce and it is fair to conclude that very few
T80's were also inserted in these packs.

Considering the date (June 12, 1911) on your OLD MILL pack, my guess is that it most likely contained two T42 cards.

Pardon me, if you already knoww all this stuff. But, I really do not think T206 cards were found in OLD MILL packs in the
Summer of 1911. By then, T206's were history....ALC was busy cranking out their new cards such as T201's, T205's, etc.

TED Z

canjond

06-12-2011, 07:00 PM

Bumping this old thread, but wanted to share a neat little "find" that I know at least a few on this board are aware of (and a big thanks to Alan for pointing them out). A gentleman on the non-sports forum had purchased a collection of flattened and trimmed turn of the century cigarette packs a few years back I believe (at least I do not believe it is a recent purchase). His collection contained many amazing flattened and trimmed packs, but also yielded two really exciting items. The first is a Red Sun flattened pack. This Red Sun pack pre-dates the card issue by a few years (as the brand was still owned by Butler and Butler), but it's one of only 2 Red Sun packs I've ever seen. In fact, the first one I have ever seen was just 2 months ago.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/jon_canfield/RedSun.jpg

The second pack is much more interesting in my book. Below is the first image of what I consider a "true" T206 style Hindu pack. As many on here have seen before, Hindu advertised the release of baseball cards in newspapers in 1909 (see an example below). Depicted in these ads was a drawn representation of the cigarette pack which supposedly yielded the cards. However, this exact style of pack had never been seen before. Curiously enough, a different style of Hindu pack had been discovered, but had different graphics and was a more elongated style. These elongated packs are extremely rare in their own right. Until recently, I had only known of 1 of these, but since have heard of 2 more. Anyways, I thought some others on here would enjoy finally seeing a Hindu pack in full color.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/jon_canfield/hindu.gif

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/jon_canfield/HinduAd.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/jon_canfield/Hindu2.jpg
(please note this Hindu pack is NOT mine).

Vol

06-12-2011, 07:23 PM

Jon, thanks for bumping this thread and sharing even more packs. This is still one of my most favorite threads, so much great information here. That Hindu cig newspaper ad is very cool. New Orleans newspaper I see.
Thanks again.

DixieBaseball

06-12-2011, 08:50 PM

Jon,

Thanks so much for sharing the info on both packs ! Nice to finally see both.... Out of curiosity, did the other Red Sun pack you saw a few months back look like the one you just posted ? (what was the date on it ?)

Thanks, Jeremy

canjond

06-12-2011, 09:14 PM

Jeremy - I have a TINY scan of it which I can post tomorrow (unfortunately on a different computer). I recall it being slightly different than the one I post above, although it does not exactly match the graphics of the remake. The above pack is from around 1906-07. Not sure when the other pack dates from.

Bridwell

06-12-2011, 10:17 PM

Congrats, Jon, and thanks for posting. That Hindu pack is fantastic! Are you the owner of the Hindu pack with the Elephant?

canjond

06-12-2011, 10:30 PM

Jeremy - here is the best I could do with the other Red Sun pack. It was part of a large lot and I was not able to secure a scan of the individual pack. However, it can clearly be seen. This was the first time I had ever seen one. Below are the two scans side by side. It's interesting how different the graphics are (and how they changed over such a relatively short period of time). Both packs are, without question, the same Red Sun brand that produced T211s. My guess, however, is that the more colorful pack probably dates to the 1910-1915 era, while the less colorful pack is 1906-07 (pre-ATC acquisition). After Butler was acquired by ATC, Red Sun production would have been shifted to New Orleans. It's interesting to note that the colorful Red Sun pack actually states this on the side - just like the pack of T211s.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/jon_canfield/RedSun-1.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/jon_canfield/RedSun.jpg

E93

06-13-2011, 12:30 AM

The Red Suns and Hindu stuff is awesome!! Thanks for sharing the images.
JimB

jerrys

06-14-2011, 08:38 PM

http://www.freewebs.com/gls234/tobacco.jpg

WillowGrove

06-17-2011, 10:25 AM

Hi -

I wanted to add my new acquistion to this thread - I now own one cigarette pack -and excited to say it's a Dogs Head. I'm going to put some photos below.

While the only value I know is from Jon C's awesome sight - I am most excited about it's level of scarcity. Of course as someone else in this thread "lamented" about an L1 leather, etc., now I need to find and buy a Dogs head card to pair with it. Ugh, such problems.

In case the photo isn't clear - the overstamp does say Aug. 1 1889 -Cerebus, Leon, Jon C et al - really interesting and beautiful stuff. Thanks for making this a real informative thread - and to whomever posted the links - I'm off to read them.

dabbuu

06-17-2011, 05:54 PM

Are any t206 packs missing from this thread?

pete zouras

10-14-2011, 07:23 PM

Looks like a first for this thread, thus the bump.<a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/my%20collection/?action=view&current=ddss2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/my%20collection/ddss2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/my%20collection/?action=view&current=ddss1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/my%20collection/ddss1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>