Vintage pennants

[Duluth Eskimo]

I know this is football, but this has been discussed in baseball before. Why do people continue to bid on this guys garbage. It is well done, I will give bidders that, but it is obviously no good. This is the same guy who used to post from Minnesota, where I am from. This guy puts a new "never seen" pennant on Ebay and people have paid this guy thousands or dollars. People on this board have bid on this guys stuff. IT IS NO GOOD. Am I the only person out there that sees it this way?

1935 Detroit Lions NFL Championship felt pennant

item # 170597362527

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11030.m43.l1123/7?euid=95d72b3afc504c73b13d3dfe5256dcb5&loc=http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem%26item%3D170597362527%26ssP ageName%3DADME:B:EF:US:1123

[IronHorse2130]

The lion on that pennant looks very familiar. I think that might be a Columbia University pennant from the 1920's/30's that he messed with. You're right though - if I was going to spend several hundred dollars on a pennant I would do A LOT of research first!

[Duluth Eskimo]

There are a lot of pennant experts on this board. I would like some of them to comment on this. People that should know better are chasing the dream with this guy and it is giving pennant people a bad name.

[perezfan]

This may well be a "FrankenPennant" (pieced together). It certainly doesn't look right, and the fuzzy/distant pictures don't exactly inspire confidence with this seller.

If I had more time, I would research this seller to see if he's the one previously offering up the Tigers FrankenPennants. There were two of those that were similarly pieced together, and were completely bogus. He used a Princeton Tiger Mascot Head and fused it with Detroit Tigers Gothic Font.

The fact that both of these instances involve Detroit teams (Lions/Tigers)makes me very suspicious of their authenticity. I personally would stay far away...

[mjkm90]

While I can't speak to this sellers history because I simply havn't paid attention, this piece looks bogus. I've not seen a Detroit Lions logo like this. I'm also very cautious when dealing with pennants that are stitched together or have sewn on letters, as they can be faked using components made from other pennants. While most stitched pennants are fine, I would use a critical eye when evaluating them.

[oriolesbb6]

I have seen the Medievel Rampant Lion logo used on a variety of HS & Souvenir pennants. I guess there are alot of "hopeful" buyers trying to find that next great piece. I never understand how bad photos are in listings, unless intentional.

[Tigerden]

These pennants are clearly meant to deceive and it became obvious to me when he sold two 1935 Detroit Tigers pennants within a one month period. Previously, I had never seen these before in my twenty five years of collecting Detroit Tigers memorabilia. In fact, an acquaintence and long time collector of Tigers memorabilia was outbid at around $1200 for the first pennant listed. Initially, I thought this pennant was legitimate with the feeling that this collectors knowledge on the subject was better than mine and he might have known of this pennants existence in the hobby. However, once the seller posted the second 1935 Tigers pennant, I knew these had to be fake or fantasy pennants. I am anxiously waiting for the 1935 Detroit Red Wings championship pennant to surface in the next couple of months and will be placing my ceiling bid of five dollars.

[Duluth Eskimo]

The thing that gets me is that there is a very select few people who would be willing to spend $500 plus on a pennant on Ebay, or at least feel comfortable doing so, and some are on this board. Where is this guy finding numerous people willing to spend $1000 plus on garbage. These people are obviously happy as a clam to do it too as his feedback is perfect. Are there that many people that throw caution to the wind on an item like this? How long until one of the "super" auctions have one of these advertised? I am going to step off the soap box again before I fall down. I'm sure I'll see one at the National this year.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Does this pennant look familiar???

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110622010237

[Oldtix]

Does this pennant look familiar???

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110622010237

Incredible...great catch. Pretty good return for a $7.13 investment (plus scissors and thread)! Have you contacted ebay?

[IronHorse2130]

Great catch! I knew it looked just like a Columbia University pennant I have at my dad's house. Scumbags like this really tick me off.

[perezfan]

The thing that gets me is that there is a very select few people who would be willing to spend $500 plus on a pennant on Ebay, or at least feel comfortable doing so, and some are on this board. Where is this guy finding numerous people willing to spend $1000 plus on garbage. These people are obviously happy as a clam to do it too as his feedback is perfect. Are there that many people that throw caution to the wind on an item like this? How long until one of the "super" auctions have one of these advertised? I am going to step off the soap box again before I fall down. I'm sure I'll see one at the National this year.

It's no different that the even higher priced phony Ad Signs, Broadsides, Autographs, Game-worn Uniforms and fake Cards that hit the market each and every week. Bogus Pennants are actually less prevalent than all of those other forms of memorabilia. I guess nothing is exempt from these Creeps, when they're trying to "earn" a dishonest living.

Nice catch on the Pennant, BTW!!

[Duluth Eskimo]

I don't want to imply that I never get burned with bad stuff. In fact, I buy and sell a lot of autographs and there is a number or times that you get caught with stuff that you wished you hadn't bought. With that being said, I also buy and sell a lot of vintage pennants and the bogus pennant surgeon really pisses me off. As I stated before this guy used to say he was from the Mpls area (where I am) and now says Flint, MI. He could be just making it up as he goes along, but I would really appreciate it if we could get this guy nipped in the bud before more people get burned.

BTW, I tried to forward info to Ebay, but they don't really have a complaint process for something like this if you are not the buyer. If anyone has a way to do it, please go ahead with the complaint.

[lefty147]

While I can't speak to this sellers history because I simply havn't paid attention, this piece looks bogus. I've not seen a Detroit Lions logo like this. I'm also very cautious when dealing with pennants that are stitched together or have sewn on letters, as they can be faked using components made from other pennants. While most stitched pennants are fine, I would use a critical eye when evaluating them.

Scrolling back through this guys feedback 3 or 4 pages back shows a lot of suspect ones that were discussed. It also shows some really nice ones that I remember seeing and appeared authentic . Mike I wouldn't remember the seller either but back in April I believe of 2009 you bought a pennant from this guy. The heading was
"Fabulous 1935 Chicago? Cubs Pennant". Do you like the pennant, did you have doubts about it?

Mike E
www.vintagesportsshoppe.com

[Chris Counts]

"BTW, I tried to forward info to Ebay, but they don't really have a complaint process for something like this if you are not the buyer. If anyone has a way to do it, please go ahead with the complaint."

Every eBay item has a link that says "report this item." I reported the pennant in question, by the way. Unfortunately, they only give you space to write a few words. I wrote, "Here's a 'Franken-pennant' ... see the link (to this thread) for details."

[perezfan]

"BTW, I tried to forward info to Ebay, but they don't really have a complaint process for something like this if you are not the buyer. If anyone has a way to do it, please go ahead with the complaint."

Every eBay item has a link that says "report this item." I reported the pennant in question, by the way. Unfortunately, they only give you space to write a few words. I wrote, "Here's a 'Franken-pennant' ... see the link (to this thread) for details."

Good job in reporting it! I hope it proves to be time well spent, and that Ebay removes it. My faith in ebay will climb a few notches if they actually act on this one, and do the right thing.

Thanks!

[perezfan]

Scrolling back through this guys feedback 3 or 4 pages back shows a lot of suspect ones that were discussed. It also shows some really nice ones that I remember seeing and appeared authentic . Mike I wouldn't remember the seller either but back in April I believe of 2009 you bought a pennant from this guy. The heading was
"Fabulous 1935 Chicago? Cubs Pennant". Do you like the pennant, did you have doubts about it?

Mike E
www.vintagesportsshoppe.com

Mike E...
Great points... I just scrolled through his feedback, and he has definitely sold a slew of supposedly very rare and desirable pennants. I bet many are fakes or were somehow fabricated (despite the unanimously positive feedback). If only those links were clickable!! in retrospect, I would both love and hate to see what he's sold.

Mike H...
Which one was it that you bought from him back in April '09? Can you post a photo? I'm very curious to see this one (perhaps from a new perspective).

[mjkm90]

Here is the pennant I purchased back in 09. I've examined it closely again and it's legit (proper felt, age cracking in graphics, etc. So he clearly has offered some legit pieces, but perhaps his sources dried up and he has begun "creating" his own supply.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q304/mjkm90/8ba7_1.jpg

[perezfan]

Elegant pennant.... glad it's legit, and that some of his stuff was apparently good. :)

I would still love to view those other closed auctions.... The odds of any ebay seller coming into all those iconic pennants in that short time frame are miniscule at best...

[lefty147]

Great pennant Mike. It would be nice to see the other photos of the older auctions.
Mike

[Duluth Eskimo]

I have seen every pennant that he has sold for over $100. Many times he has added paint or graphics to replicate early teams logos, etc. Sometimes he made non sport (beer, motorcycle) pennants that were easy to spot. He is smart enough to know which pennants do very well at auction. This guy is clearly talented and has spent good time at each piece, but wouldn't you if you were doing that well on Ebay. Thanks for the forum, Jason