Large bordered American Beauty

[martin neal]

This card has always puzzled me. Side to side, it measures nearly one and a half inches, which is wider than most t206s. On inspection, it doesn't appear to have been cut from a sheet. It seems I have read a thread which debunked the notion that American Beauties were cut smaller to fit in a smaller pack, if that were true then this one would not have fit in that pack. Then again, this card may have accidently been inserted into a different brand of tobacco. I would love to see other large bordered American Beauties that board members might have.

Edit. Actually, after looking at the preview (large scan) of this post, it does appear to have an irregular cut.

[fkw]

The majority of them are narrower, but not all. It may be that the first batch were designed to be cut normal, then later they altered the process. ???

Does anyone know if they altered the sheets to make the side borders narrower, or did they just cut a sliver off of each card to make them narrower?

Here are 2 more Lake scans to compare... 350 & 460 (the 350 later graded SGC-50)

http://centuryoldcards.com/images/1909t206lakeab1.jpg
http://centuryoldcards.com/images/1909t206lakeab2.jpg

[FrankWakefield]

Martin, that's a great card! Thanks for posting. Frank, if you have no room for those 2 Lake cards as you move, I'm happy to keep an eye on 'em here in Kentucky.

[mrvster]

Martin,

Sweet card:)..... it appears "hand cut" on both borders.....could have been hand cut from a test strip or sheet althougth the bottom edges almost look "factory cut"...


i wish i could examine it...
this is odd, because there are no definite clues(missing color/severe registration, etc,ect) to indicate any sign of scrap except those wavy side borders...i have never found a wide bordered am. beauty before......i'm sure Ted will eleborate since he has been all over am. beauties in the past...

TED , WHERE ARE YOU:p

BTW
can't thank you enough for the matty scrap Martin!!! YOU ROCK!!:)

[OldSchoolBaseball]

Here is one of my AB's (non framed back) - I would call this a wide bordered AB as my other one (with framed back) is much narrower. Really looks "normal" like other T206's

http://net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=193&pictureid=3168

[E93]

Martin,
That is a great card. It looks to me to have been hand cut on the sides. My guess is it never saw the inside of a cigarette pack.
JimB

[pete zouras]

<a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/?action=view&amp;current=ironf.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/ironf.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/?action=view&amp;current=ironb.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/ironb.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[Mikehealer]

Nice Iron Man collection Pete.

[canjond]

As for the American Beauty pack "myth", I've owned (and still own) American Beauty cigarette boxes from a few different years, including 1905, 1909 and 1910. I can unequivocally say that all of the boxes I have ever owned were not any narrower than the other brands unsed to distribute T206 cards (i.e., Sweet Caporal, Piedmont, Old Mill, Sovereign, etc).

[martin neal]

Nice cards everyone, and thanks Jon, I thought that "myth" was incorrect.

[frohme]

A couple side-by-side for comparison.

Leifield and Miller both look relatively normal, width-wise.

http://photos.imageevent.com/gspinf/earlypittsburghcards/tobaccoissues/t206byadvertisingback/websize/American%20Beauty%20-%20350%20Subjects%20-%20With%20Frame.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/gspinf/earlypittsburghcards/tobaccoissues/t206byadvertisingback/websize/American%20Beauty%20-%20350%20Subjects%20-%20Without%20Frame.jpg

While these 460 Subjects seem to be of the narrower persuasion

http://photos.imageevent.com/gspinf/earlypittsburghcards/tobaccoissues/t206byadvertisingback/websize/American%20Beauty%20-%20460%20Subjects.jpghttp://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x51/frohme/Other/0430550c.jpg

[shaunsteig]

I wonder if the AB sizing has to do with the particular series. 350 vs 460. bordered or not.

Here's a link to a recent thread that tangented onto this topic. http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=131752 Within is also a link to a prior Net54 thread further delving into the reason ABs may or may not have been cut thin.

Thanks,
--S

[cfc1909]

.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_UrSHvogCrmM/TVIgsMlwXlI/AAAAAAAADj0/bug_L4-7c_s/s1280/Downloads6.jpg

[cfc1909]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_UrSHvogCrmM/TVKeyJiMTzI/AAAAAAAADkM/VQTe2h82qTo/s1280/Recently%20Updated60.jpg

[Bridwell]

Here's 2 sample packs I have. One is a thinner size, designed to hold 15 cigarettes. The 10-count pack has been shown to have contained T206's in 1909-1910, due to some American Tobacco Company packing sheets that were found. To date, no similar sheets have been found for 15-count packs which I believe were first introduced in 1910 when the tax rate changed.

[teetwoohsix]

It seems like a lot of the American Beauty T206's have one side of the white border chopped off.

Has anyone ever opened a sealed AB pack that had a card in it?

Also- Martin, that is an awesome card you have !!

Sincerely, Clayton

Edit to add.... If the theory about the thinner pack is not correct, could it be as simple as a loyal smoker of American Beauty cigs for some reason or other saved his/her cards, and for whatever reason trimmed off either side of the white border? Just a thought.