Does common sense have a place in the world of professional grading?

[Rob D.]

While browsing an auction online, I came across a complete set of 1952 Num Nums. (Even though it's a postwar issue, I think the question is relevant here.) Below are two cards from the set (scans are from goodwinandco.com (http://www.goodwinandco.com)). The Bob Kennedy is missing its coupon at the bottom; the Larry Doby has its coupon.

I've given this some thought, honestly trying to come up with an answer to this question: How can any grading company come up with the logic that deems both of these cards receive the same grade? I know it's a coupon that's missing, and the coupon was meant to be removed. But how could anyone not come to the conclusion that a card with its coupon shouldn't receive a grade higher to a similar one without, even taking into account the "intent" angle? It just seems so simple to me.

Please play devil's advocate. There has to be some reasoning that got PSA to this decision. I just don't know what it is.

[shimozukawa]

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[Exhibitman]

As John Cleese might tell you: It's perfectly simple. If you're not getting your card tab cut, you don't have to move your brother's clothes down to the lower peg. You simply collect his note before lunch, after you've done your scripture prep, when you've written your letter home, before rest, move your own clothes onto the lower peg, greet the visitors, and report to Mr. Viney that you've had your chit signed.

[Tcards-Please]

So does PSA have two separate categories, one for with coupons and one without?

[HRBAKER]

Rob,
To answer your question, no.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=130336

Jeff

[shimozukawa]

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[novakjr]

I understand that the tab was intended to be removed factor. Don't quite understand why they're not treated separately in the registry though.

For the sake of argument, does psa grade separated 80/81 Topps basketball cards? Judging by the perforations, it's my belief that Topps intended for them to be separated. So at what point does psa draw the line when it comes to intent?

[Bicem]

The same intent logic can be applied to postcards. They were meant to be written on and mailed, yet the grading companies will penalize the ones that were (and rightfully so in my opinion).

[shimozukawa]

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[steve B]

The slippery slope of cluelessness here.

" For example, PSA will not grade a 1979 O-Pee-Chee Wayne Gretzky card cut from a sheet because that card was issued in non-sheet form. On the other hand, PSA will grade a 1959 Bazooka or 1961 Post Cereal Mickey Mantle because those cards could only be obtained in one fashion - removed by hand from a box or panel."


soooo.......Cards from the 1970's team photo card sheets can be graded because they were issued that way? And the Topps cards from Dynamite magazine? And 1983 Topps which were issued in uncut sheets? And all those popcorn discs that came as discs in the package but could be ordered as a set which came as an uncut sheet?

How about George C Millers that were cancelled by removing the bottom of the card which contained the offer. They were essentially treated as tabs by the issuing company, so they should be gradeable right?

And they end by saying that if there's more original tab than looks nice it should be removed to get a higher grade!

What's next? A trimmed card grading service.
1 really sloppy job
2 slightly sloppy job
3 looks good from a few feet but the edge is wavy
4 straight edge, but it's still easy to tell.
5 great job! it almost got by us.

Better ones of course will get an 8, 9 or 10:rolleyes:

Steve B

[novakjr]

This part is the lack of common sense. However, in their defense (stupid Bazooka thing not withstanding), they do indicate "H" on the cards missing tabs in the registry.



My understanding is that if they were to grade those cards as individual panels, you would more than likely only receive an "authentic" grade.

1) Panels aren't intended to be redeemed as coupons.
2) If you wanted better than an "authentic" grade, you'd need to include more than just the perforation for that panel (assuming they're willing to grade them at all).

The "H" makes a little sense. At least they're distinguishing within each individual's set.

Anyways, I was completely joking about the Topps basketball. Just using an extreme example of intent.

[Pup6913]

The answer is simple. Its PSA:eek::eek::eek::eek: We all should not be surprised anymore. Its sad really:(

[philliesphan]

any different than how BOTH PSA and SGC treat Zeenuts -- it is denoted whether it has the Coupon or Not. And Collectors obviously place a huge premium on Zeenuts with coupons.

[shimozukawa]

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[novakjr]

What's they're stance on the Exhibit 4 on 1 that had the coupon or whatever in the corner removed? Do they still grade the same as ones that were never cut off?

[glynparson]

With all the legitimate reasons to bash PSA I think this one is rather silly. The card is clearly labeled without coupon. they do the same with Redman tobacco. SGC does the same with Zeenuts. Don't see the problem. One is EX with the coupon one is ex without the coupon.

[steve B]

I think that is pretty much the opposite of what they're saying. Unless those issues were different from the mass issued versions (which is an indication of MY ignorance), they couldn't be graded.



Umm... no. If you just sent in the bottom half of all of the cards, you wouldn't win. The cards needed to be redeemed in full pieces. As such, this would not count as a "tab" type of card, in my opinion.

Their example was a 79 Gretzky - cut from a sheet wouldn't be graded since the card wasn't issued in an uncut sheet form. They don't mention any requirement of differences. The 70's team card sheets were on different cardboard sometimes, but not always. The magazine panels are 6 card panels taken from regualr sheets as far as I know. The 83 set was issued in uncut sheets with no differences at all. I still have the sheet I bought and the huge wrapper, a giant cello tube.

I don't actually consider the Millers as tabbed cards either, but the factory did remove the offer portion just as a consumer would remove a tab.

I do think that a card without the tab is trimmed. Just as a cancelled R300 is trimmed.

The distinction of with/without tab seems to be a decent compromise though, especially for sets that usually have the tabs cut off.

SGC does odd things too, the Topps Allen and Ginter mini cards with autographs or bits of wood or cloth come enclosed in another full size card with windows in it. (And a hole so you can touch the cloth swatch:( )
SGC won't grade these as issued, they have to be removed from the outer card. Which makes nearly no sense whatsoever.

Steve B

[shimozukawa]

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[Rob D.]

With all the legitimate reasons to bash PSA I think this one is rather silly. The card is clearly labeled without coupon. they do the same with Redman tobacco. SGC does the same with Zeenuts. Don't see the problem. One is EX with the coupon one is ex without the coupon.

From the original post:

"How can any grading company come up with the logic that deems both of these cards receive the same grade?"

The question wasn't intended to bash PSA.

[bcbgcbrcb]

As a couple of collectors have already mentioned, same scenario as Zeenuts and both are clearly labeled on the flips as such (w/tab or w/o tab. Astute collectors know that one with a coupon is much rarer and thus more valuable than one without the coupon given the same numerical grade.

[shimozukawa]

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