FYI....RED CROSS (T215-1) checklist......UPDATED

[tedzan]

The RED CROSS (T215-1) set consists of 96 cards. It is comprised of T206 subjects from the 150/350 series, 350-only series, 350/460 series,
and 460-only series. These cards were most likely issued in 2 series....1st series of 48 (or 36) subjects in 1910....the 2nd series of 48 (or 60)
subjects in early 1912.

The T215 cards were printed in New York City (as most of that era's T-cards), shipped to the Lorillard plant (Factory #10) in Jersey City (NJ),
and inserted in the Red Cross tobacco products. A large find of Red Cross cards occurred some years ago in the Louisiana area.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/T215RedCross50xb.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/t215miller50x.jpg


This list of 96 cards is a work in progress. Some uncertainty exists with respect to the T215-1 cards. However, a 96-card "complete" set of
the T215-1's "cousins", the "PIRATE" Tobacco set, has been confirmed. By cross-referencing the RED CROSS set and the "PIRATE" set (with
several exceptions in team identifications), a close match exists between the fronts of these two White-Bordered, Brown-Captioned sets.


Ames (hands above head)
Baker
Ball
Bender (trees)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Byrne (St Louis)
Camnitz (arm at side)
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (trophy)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Collins (A's)
Conroy (bat)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Crawford (bat)
Cree
Davis (A's)
Devore
Donlin (bat) (Pittsburg).............traded Feb 17, 1912
Doolan (bat)
Doolan (fielding)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Doyle (portrait)
Doyle (bat)
Dubuc
Elberfeld (Wash.-fielding)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Ford
Fromme
Griffith (bat) (Washington).........traded in Feb 1912
Groom
Hartsel (Toledo).......................acquired by Toledo in Dec 1911
Herzog (New York, NL)..............traded July 22, 1911
Hoblitzell
Hofman
Howard
Huggins (portrait) St Louis NL)....traded Feb 1910
Huggins (hands/mouth)
Hummell
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (both hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Kelley
Konetchy (glove low)
Krause
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Latham
Leifield (bat)
Lord
Magee (bat)
Marquard (portrait)
Marquard (pitching)
Mathewson (white cap)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McGinnity
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove)
Harry McIntyre (Chicago NL)
Matty McIntyre (Detroit)
McLean
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers
Miller
Mowrey (St Louis, NL)...............traded Aug 22, 1909
Mullin (bat)
Murray
Oakes
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Paskert
Pelty (vertical)
Purtell
Quinn
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Schaefer (Washington)
Schulte (back view)
Sheckard (glove)
Frank Smith (Cincinnati).............traded May 11, 1911
Speaker
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street
Sweeney (New York AL)
Tannehill (Chicago AL)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Warhop
Wheat
Doc White (pitching)
Willetts
Wilson
Wiltse (portrait)
Wiltse (pitching)
Cy Young (glove)......................UNCERTAIN


I reiterate, this checklist is a work in progress; therefore, I would appreciate any updates to it. Especially, I'm looking for more team changes.....
that are different from the original T206 captions.

Also, posting your T215-1 cards here are surely appreciated.


TED Z

[sreader3]

Hi Ted,

Thanks as always. As you indicate that 150, 350 and 460 subjects are in the Red Cross mix, there is some ambiguity as to which Ball, Camnitz, Lake and Murray subjects are being referenced. Also trying to figure out which 150-only or 150/350 subjects are in play (I don't see any in your checklist, at least at first glance).

Best,

Scot

[DixieBaseball]

Are any of the Minor Leaguer players, like Gabby Street, Al Bridwell, etc. featured with any Minor League teams, or are they all featured with their respective Major league team ? (My understanding is it is Major League)

Thanks, JJ

[FrankWakefield]

Smither, Montreal.... that would be a minor league Red Cross. Mr. Lipset has it with both types, but it isn't on Mr. Zanidkis' list. Mr. Lipset also shows a type 2 card for Elberfeld with a Chattanooga caption.

[DixieBaseball]

Frank - Thanks for the info - I think that is how I recall it as well... Some minor leaguer's mixed in, but not as many as say, the T213-2 set. Elberfeld with Chattanooga yes, but Street and Bridwell with Nashville, no...

[cdn_collector]

And what about Kelley, does anyone know? Presumably if this is a 1910 issue then he's featured with Toronto and not yet with New York.

Can anyone confirm?

Regards,

Richard.

[tedzan]

The Mathewson with the White Cap is the only 150 series subject that I know of has been confirmed.
Ball, Camnitz, and Lake could be 150 subjects. But, I'd bet that they are 350 or 460 series subjects.

Best regards,

TED Z

[Drew]

Hi Ted,

Thanks as always. As you indicate that 150, 350 and 460 subjects are in the Red Cross mix, there is some ambiguity as to which Ball, Camnitz, Lake and Murray subjects are being referenced. Also trying to figure out which 150-only or 150/350 subjects are in play (I don't see any in your checklist, at least at first glance).

Best,

Scot

Hi Scot
According to Mr Lpiset's encycolepda there are no 150 only cards in the t215-set. Also I crossed referenced the four cards you questioned. Here is what I
come up with. Ball Clevleland, Camnitz Pitt arms at side, Lake StL no ball in hand and Murrary NY portrait.
drew

[FrankWakefield]

Richard, Mr. Lipset shows Kelley with a type 2 card with a Toronto caption. I don't know, I've only seen a few Red Cross ballcards, only have one. There are a few mistakes, typos, and omissions in the volumes of The Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards; but most of the stuff in there is right. I'd think there really is a Kelley, Toronto card until it's shown otherwise.

[tedzan]

Kelley and McGinnity are identified with their respective Eastern League teams.....Toronto and Newark (same as their T206's).

Regarding Gabby Street, his portrait card has him with Washington. I haven't seen his Catching card. If it was printed in 1912
he would be identified with New York AL (traded to NY in Dec 1911).

Regarding other Minor League captions on these subjects, I think you guys are referring to their T213-2 cards.

I have received an input confirming Conroy (bat); and, have added this card to the list.

Please continue your inputs on the T213-1 issue.

Thanks,

TED Z

[Drew]

And what about Kelley, does anyone know? Presumably if this is a 1910 issue then he's featured with Toronto and not yet with New York.

Can anyone confirm?

Regards,

Richard.

Hi Richard
According to Mr Lipset Kelley is with Toronto.
drew

[cdn_collector]

So that means there is likely a T215 Pirate back Kelley and possibly a T215 Type 1 with Toronto. Very cool.

Thanks for all the responses on that.

Regards,

Richard.

[nolemmings]

seems Hartsel is captioned with Toledo.

[White Borders]

Here are scans of some T215-1 Red Cross. A few are mine, others are from the Web.

[White Borders]

More Scans

[frohme]

I can confirm Camnitz (Harry, not Howie) is arm-at-side.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x51/frohme/3de0ea8c-1-2.jpg

[White Borders]

More

[White Borders]

And Finally

[tedzan]

Thanks for posting all those pictures.


TED Z

[ullmandds]

craig...wow...many of those look pack fresh!!!

[tedzan]

The RED CROSS (T215-1) set consists of 96 cards. It is comprised of T206 subjects from the 150/350 series, 350-only series, 350/460 series,
and 460-only series. These cards were most likely issued in 2 series....1st series of 48 (or 36) subjects in 1910....the 2nd series of 48 (or 60)
subjects in early 1912.

The T215 cards were printed in New York City (as most of that era's T-cards), shipped to the Lorillard plant (Factory #10) in Jersey City (NJ),
and inserted in the Red Cross tobacco products. A large find of Red Cross cards occurred some years back in the Louisiana area.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/T215RedCross50xb.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/t215miller50x.jpg


This list of 96 cards is a work in progress. Some uncertainty exists with respect to the T215-1 cards. However, a 96-card "complete" set of
the T215-1's "cousins", the "PIRATE" Tobacco set, has been confirmed. By cross-referencing the RED CROSS set and the "PIRATE" set (with
several exceptions in team identifications), a close match exists between the fronts of these two White-Bordered, Brown-Captioned sets


Ames (hands above head)
Baker
Ball
Bender (trees)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Byrne (St Louis)
Camnitz (arm at side)
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (trophy)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Collins (A's)
Conroy (bat)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Crawford (bat)
Cree
Davis (A's)
Devore
Donlin (bat) (Pittsburg)...............traded Feb 17, 1912
Doolan (bat)
Doolan (fielding)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Doyle (portrait)
Doyle (bat)
Dubuc
Elberfeld (Wash.-fielding)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Ford
Fromme
Griffith (bat) (Washington)...........traded in Feb 1912
Groom
Hartsel (Toledo).........................acquired by Toledo in Dec 1911
Herzog (New York, NL)................traded July 22, 1911
Hoblitzell
Hofman
Howard
Huggins (portrait) St Louis NL)......traded Feb 1910)
Huggins (hands/mouth)
Hummell
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (both hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Kelley
Konetchy (glove low)
Krause
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (St Louis-no ball)
Latham
Leifield (bat)
Lord
Magee (bat)
Marquard (portrait)
Marquard (pitching)
Mathewson (white cap)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McGinnity
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove)
Harry McIntyre (Chicago NL)
Matty McIntyre (Detroit)
McLean
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers
Miller
Mowrey (St Louis, NL).................traded Aug 22, 1909
Mullin (bat)
Murray
Oakes
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Paskert
Pelty (vertical)
Purtell
Quinn
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Schaefer (Washington)
Schulte (back view)
Sheckard (glove)
Frank Smith (Cincinnati)...............traded May 11, 1911
Speaker
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street
Sweeney (New York AL)
Tannehill (Chicago AL)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Warhop
Wheat
Doc White (pitching)
Willetts
Wilson
Wiltse (portrait)
Wiltse (pitching)
Cy Young (glove).......................UNCERTAIN


I reiterate, this checklist is a work in progress; therefore, I would appreciate any updates to it. Especially, I'm looking for more team changes.....
that are different from the original T206 captions.

Also, posting your T215-1 cards here are surely appreciated.


TED Z

[DixieBaseball]

RC

[sreader3]

Does it make any sense that a sole T206 150/350 subject (Matty White Cap) would exist with Red Cross? While I have absolutely no proof, this combination calls to mind the ill-fated Matty Portrait Red Hindu, which was ultimately deemed to have been re-backed.

[E93]

Confirmation of Marquard/pitching
JimB

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6356/t215marquardfront.jpg (http://img199.imageshack.us/i/t215marquardfront.jpg/)http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8343/t215marquardback.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/i/t215marquardback.jpg/)

[nolemmings]

As I posted before, Hartsel is shown with Toledo.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh144/sabrjay/my%20collection/George%20D%20collection/george21.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh144/sabrjay/my%20collection/George%20D%20collection/george22.jpg

Topsy joined Toledo in 1912 as their manager for the first of three seasons, in only the last of which he appeared as a player.

[oldjudge]

Ted--Are you saying that the checklist for the Pirate set is the same as the checklist for the Red Cross set? I wasn't aware that there was a Cobb Bat Off in the Pirate group.

[tedzan]

To date, no Cobb has been confirmed in the T215-3 (PIRATE Tobacco) set. I posted a thread on this 8 months ago
titled......
" Searching for a "Pirate" Cobb....show us these extremely rare "T215" cards ?

Link......
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=123396


TED Z

[tedzan]

Thanks for the team info on Topsy Hartsel. I have added his team to the list.

Indeed, Toledo acquired Topsy in December 1911 to be their Manager.

Best Regards,

TED Z

[tedzan]

Does it make any sense that a sole T206 150/350 subject (Matty White Cap) would exist with Red Cross? While I have absolutely no proof, this combination calls to mind the ill-fated Matty Portrait Red Hindu, which was ultimately deemed to have been re-backed.

That's funny, when I first became aware of the Matty (white cap) in the T215-1 set, I had the same suspicious thought.
However, this card had been cataloged way before the "re-fronting" (re-backing) of cards like the Matty/red HINDU card
you alluded to. Those fakes were in circulation circa 1999-2000.

Also, for whatever it is worth, there exists an SGC 40 graded RED CROSS (BROWN caption) Matty with a White Cap.


Best Regards,

TED Z

[tedzan]

Does anyone here have the T215-1 Frank Smither card that is listed in the Standard Catalog ?

I can't find this guy in any BB encyclopedia. Or, is this card simply some sort of spelling variation
of the Frank Smith card ?


Thanks,

TED Z

[FrankWakefield]

There's no listing for Smither in the data base for minor league players at the Baseball Reference site. I've not seen the card. This does bring its existence into some doubt... maybe a typo?

[tedzan]

I have never seen this card; and, was curious to see if anyone else has seen it (or has a scan of it).

Besides Cobb, Smither is not in the T215-3 (PIRATE Tobacco) set. Otherwise, the PIRATE set appears
to include nearly all the subjects that are in the T215-1 (RED CROSS) set.

Perhaps, this Smither card will eventually surface.

Regards,

TED Z

[tedzan]

I'm still looking for the T215-1 Frank Smither card. Has anyone seen (or have a scan) of it.

Also, are there anymore T215-1 cards to be posted here ?

Please, no Blue captioned T215's. Save those for another thread on the T215-2 cards.


Thanks,

TED Z

[FrankWakefield]

In Mr. Sugar's 3rd edition of his The Sports Collectors Bible, he lists this:

Smith (2)*

That is listed in the Type One Brown Captions, and in the Type Two Blue Captions.

The * indicates that the cards are identical to the corresponding Type One card with the exception of the color of the caption.


There is no listing for a Smither card under either type.


My thinking now is that there is no such card, and that "Smither" crept in as a typo. No "Smither" card will be found.

Frank "Piano Mover" Smith pitched in Montreal for the 1912 and 1913 seasons. He was a dominant pitcher for the White Sox in 1909, and the 5 preceding years.

[tedzan]

Thanks very much for that info regarding Frank Smith.

So, Smith's T215-2 card identifies him with Montreal (Eastern Lge). I am not 100% positive, but I think Smith's T215-1 card identifies
him with Cincinnati.
Smith was acquired by Cinci on May 11, 1911. This fact brings me to my theory, in which I think that the 96 cards in the RED CROSS
set were printed in the form of two 48-card series. The 1st in 1910, which the 48 cards' team captions are identical to those of their
T206 captions.

The 2nd series of 48 cards were printed & issued in the Spring of 1912. This series of cards reflect 1910, 1911 and early 1912 trades.
Your T215-1 Huggins (portrait) must of been in this 2nd series....as, were the following (to name a few)......

Mike Donlin (bat)......Pittsburg (traded Feb 17, 1912)
Clark Griffith (bat)....Washington (traded in Feb 1912)
Hartsel...................Toledo (acquired by Toledo in Dec 1911)
Buck Herzog............New York, NL (traded July 22, 1911)
Harry McIntyre.........Chicago, NL (traded April 13, 1910)
Frank Smith.............Cincinnati (traded May 11, 1911)


Regards ole buddy,

TED Z

[tedzan]

Here is another player team change that has been upgraded on the T215-1 list.

Mike Mowrey (St Louis NL)......trade from Cinci to St Louis on Aug 22, 1909.


TED Z

[FrankWakefield]

Great work, Ted!!!

I don't have the 2011 Standard Catalog yet. So I don't know what the Red Cross list looks like in there. But what Ted's done here needs to be used to update the Red Cross section of The Standard Catalog. And if Beckett covers T215's in something, they might need to revise their listing.

[tedzan]

Good idea, Frank.

I always liked the early editions of the Beckett Almanac (when Rich Klein produced it), as it had the Team info.
included in the checklists.

Best regards,

TED Z

[tedzan]

The RED CROSS (T215-1) set consists of 96 cards. It is comprised of T206 subjects from the 150/350 series, 350-only series, 350/460 series,
and 460-only series. These cards were most likely issued in 2 series....1st series of 48 (or 36) subjects in 1910....the 2nd series of 48 (or 60)
subjects in early 1912.

The T215 cards were printed in New York City (as most of that era's T-cards), shipped to the Lorillard plant (Factory #10) in Jersey City (NJ),
and inserted in the Red Cross tobacco products. A large find of Red Cross cards occurred some years back in the Louisiana area.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/T215RedCross50xb.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/t215miller50x.jpg


This list of 96 cards is a work in progress. Some uncertainty exists with respect to the T215-1 cards. However, a 96-card "complete" set of
the T215-1's "cousins", the "PIRATE" Tobacco set, has been confirmed. By cross-referencing the RED CROSS set and the "PIRATE" set (with
several exceptions in team identifications), a close match exists between the fronts of these two White-Bordered, Brown-Captioned sets.

Ames (hands above head)
Baker
Ball
Bender (trees)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Byrne (St Louis)
Camnitz (arm at side)
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (trophy)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Collins (A's)
Conroy (bat)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Crawford (bat)
Cree
Davis (A's)
Devore
Donlin (bat)..(Pittsburg)................traded Feb 17, 1912
Doolan (bat)
Doolan (fielding)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Doyle (portrait)
Doyle (bat)
Dubuc
Elberfeld (Wash.-fielding)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Ford
Fromme
Griffith (bat)..(Washington)............traded in Feb 1912
Groom
Hartsel (Toledo)..........................acquired by Toledo in Dec 1911
Herzog (New York, NL)..................traded July 22, 1911
Hoblitzell
Hofman
Howard
Huggins (portrait)..(St Louis NL)......traded Feb 1910
Huggins (hands/mouth)
Hummell
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (both hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Kelley
Konetchy (glove low)
Krause
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (St Louis-no ball)
Latham
Leifield (bat)
Lord
Magee (bat)
Marquard (portrait)
Marquard (pitching)
Mathewson (white cap)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McGinnity
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove)
Harry McIntyre (Chicago NL)
Matty McIntyre (Detroit)
McLean
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers
Miller
Mowrey (St Louis, NL)...................traded Aug 22, 1909
Mullin (bat)
Murray
Oakes
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Paskert
Pelty (vertical)
Purtell
Quinn
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Schaefer (Washington)
Schulte (back view)
Sheckard (glove)
Frank Smith (Cincinnati).................traded May 11, 1911
Speaker
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street
Sweeney (New York AL)
Tannehill (Chicago AL)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Warhop
Wheat
Doc White (pitching)
Willetts
Wilson
Wiltse (portrait)
Wiltse (pitching)
Cy Young (glove)..........................UNCERTAIN



I reiterate, this checklist is a work in progress; therefore, I would appreciate any updates to it. Especially, I'm looking for more team changes.....
that are different from the original T206 captions.

Also, posting your T215-1 cards here are surely appreciated.



TED Z

[tedzan]

Regarding RED CROSS....BROWN captioned cards......

Anyone here have (or have seen) a Cy Young (glove) T215-1 card ?


Thanks for checking this out,

TED Z

[Abravefan11]

Regarding RED CROSS....BROWN captioned cards......

Anyone here have (or have seen) a Cy Young (glove) T215-1 card ?


Thanks for checking this out,

TED Z


http://www.legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=60782

[tedzan]

The RED CROSS (T215-1) set consists of 96 cards. It is comprised of T206 subjects from the 150/350 series, 350-only series, 350/460 series,
and 460-only series. These cards were most likely issued in 2 series....1st series of 48 (or 36) subjects in 1910....the 2nd series of 48 (or 60)
subjects in early 1912.

The T215 cards were printed in New York City (as most of that era's T-cards), shipped to the Lorillard plant (Factory #10) in Jersey City (NJ),
and inserted in the Red Cross tobacco products. A large find of Red Cross cards occurred some years back in the Louisiana area.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/T215RedCross50xb.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/t215miller50x.jpg


This list of 96 cards is a work in progress. Some uncertainty exists with respect to the T215-1 cards. However, a 96-card "complete" set of
the T215-1's "cousins", the "PIRATE" Tobacco set, has been confirmed. By cross-referencing the RED CROSS set and the "PIRATE" set (with
several exceptions in team identifications and a variation of some subjects), a close match exists between the fronts of these two White-
Bordered, Brown-Captioned sets.


TRADES....circa 1909 - Spring 1912 that are reflected on these T215-1 cards.

Bobby Byrne.................from St Louis NL to Pittsburg on Aug 19, 1909
Mike Donlin...................from Boston NL to Pittsburg on February 17, 1912
Clark Griffith.................signed a contract to manage Washington in Oct 1911
Topsy Hartsel................signed by Toledo (A A) in the Fall of 1911
Buck Herzog.................from Boston NL to New York NL on July 22, 1911
Miller Huggins (port)......from Cinci to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910
Harry Lord...………………….from Boston AL to Chicago AL on August 11, 1910
Harry McIntyre..............from Brooklyn to Chicago NL on April 13, 1910
Matty McIntyre..............from Detroit to Chicago AL on Jan 12, 1911
Mike Mowrey.................from Cinci to St Louis NL on August 22, 1909
Rebel Oakes..................from Cinci to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910
Frank Smith..................from Boston AL to Cinci on May 11, 1911
Harry Steinfeldt............1912 Spring training tryout with St Louis NL


Ames (hands above head)
Baker
Ball
Bender (trees)
Bender (no trees)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Byrne..............................Pittsburg
Camnitz (arm at side)
Chance (bat)
Chase (trophy)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Collins (A's)
Conroy (bat)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Crawford (bat)
Cree
Davis ..............................Cleveland
Devore
Donlin (bat)......................Pittsburg
Doolan (fielding)

Dougherty (arm in air)
Doyle (portrait)
Doyle (bat)
Dubuc
Elberfeld (Wash.-fielding)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Ford
Fromme
Griffith (bat).....................Washington
Hartsel.............................Toledo
Herzog.............................New York, NL
Hoblitzell
Hofman
Howard
Huggins (portrait)..............St Louis NL
Huggins (hands at mouth)....Cincinnati
Hummell
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Johnson (pitching)

Kelley
Konetchy (glove low)
Krause
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (St Louis-no ball)
Latham
Leifield (bat)
Lord
Magee (bat)
Marquard (portrait)
Marquard (pitching)
Mathewson (white cap)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McGinnity
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove)
Harry McIntyre..................Chicago NL
Matty McIntyre (Detroit)
McLean
Merkle (throwing)

Meyers
Miller
Mowrey............................St Louis, NL
Mullin (bat)
Murray
Oakes St Louis, NL
Oldring (sat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)....Detroit
Paskert
Pelty (vertical)
Purtell
Quinn
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Schaefer (Washington)
Schulte (back view)
Sheckard (glove)
Frank Smith......................Cincinnati
Speaker
Stahl (glove)

Steinfeldt (bat).................St. Louis, NL
Street (portrait)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (New York AL)
Tannehill (Chicago AL)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Warhop
Wheat
Doc White (pitching)
Willetts
Wilson
Wiltse (portrait)
Wiltse (pitching)
Cy Young (glove)


I reiterate, this checklist is a work in progress; therefore, I would appreciate any updates to it. Especially, I'm looking for more team changes.....
that are different from the original T206 captions.

Also, posting your T215-1 cards here are surely appreciated.


TED Z

[ValKehl]

Can anyone confirm the existence of a T215-1 of WaJo (pitching pose)? I realize that this card has long been included in the T215-1 checklists, but I have collected WaJo cards for a long time, and I have never seen one. And, there are none listed in the PSA & SGC pop reports.

[Sean]

Ted, I don't see Bresnahan batting on the list. Steve H. (brass rat) has one, though I don't have a scan of it.

[brass_rat]

Hey Sean,

The Bresnahan I have is a type 2, not type 1. (Busy week -- haven't had a chance to dig up that scan yet. :eek:)
I don't believe Bresnahan type 1 exists.

Cheers,
Steve

[Pat R]

Harry Lord is an interesting subject in these two sets.

288046
288047
288113

http://t206resource.com/Article-T206Resource-REAPirates.html

[tedzan]

Can anyone confirm the existence of a T215-1 of WaJo (pitching pose)? I realize that this card has long been included in the T215-1 checklists, but I have collected WaJo cards for a long time, and I have never seen one. And, there are none listed in the PSA & SGC pop reports.


Hi Val...... Here is the confirmed 97-card list [includes Bobby Byrne (St. Louis variation)] from the PIRATE set find (circa 2007).

These cards were most likely printed in two 48-card series (1910 & 1912) using the regular T215-1 pre-printed (fronts) sheets.

Therefore, this tells us that Walter Johnson (pitching) must exist as a RED CROSS (T215-1) card.


T215-1 PIRATE set find......

Ames (hands above head)
Baker
Ball
Bender
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Byrne (St Louis)..................Byrne (Pittsburg)
Camnitz
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase
Collins (A's)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Crawford (bat)
Cree
Davis (A's)
Devore
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (fielding)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)

Larry Doyle (portrait)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Dubuc
Elberfeld (Wash.-fielding)
Evans
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Ford
Fromme
Griffith (bat)
Groom
Hartzel
Herzog...............................New York NL
Hoblitzell
Hofman
Howard
Huggins (portrait).................St Louis NL
Huggins (hands/mouth).........Cincinnati
Hummel
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (both hands)

Johnson (pitching)
Kelley
Konetchy (glove low)
Krause
Lajoie (bat)
Lake
Leifield (bat)
Lord
Magee (bat)
Marquard (portrait)
Marquard (pitching)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McGinnity
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove)
Harry McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago Nat'l)
Matty McIntyre (Detroit)
Matty McIntyre....................Chicago AL
McLean
Merkle (throwing)

Meyers
Miller
Mitchell (Cinci)
Mowery
Mullin (bat)
Murphy (bat)
Murray
Oakes................................St Louis, Nat'l
Oldring (bat)
O'Leary (hands/knees)
Paskert
Pelty (vertical)
Purtell
Quinn
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (bat)
Schaefer
Schulte (back view)
Sheckard (glove)
Frank Smith........................Cincinnati


Speaker
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)(Chicago NL)
Street
Summers
Sweeney (New York)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Thomas
Tinker (bat)
Wagner (bat on right)
Warhop
Wheat
Willetts
Wilson
Wiltse (portrait)
Wiltse (throwing)

TRADES....circa 1909 - Spring 1912

Bobby Byrne.................from St Louis NL to Pittsburg on Aug 19, 1909
Clark Griffith.................signed a contract in Oct 1911 to manage Washington
Buck Herzog.................from Boston NL to New York NL on July 22, 1911
Miller Huggins (port).......from Cinci to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910
Harry Lord.....................from Boston AL to Chicago AL on Aug 11, 1910
Harry McIntyre..............from Brooklyn to Chicago NL on April 13, 1910
Matty McIntyre.............from Detroit to Chicago AL on Jan 12, 1911
Rebel Oakes..................from Cinci to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910
Frank Smith..................from Boston AL to Cinci on May 11, 1911
Harry Steinfeldt............1912 Spring training tryout with St Louis NL


Check-out this 2010 thread for more info on this subject...... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=123396&highlight=T215+Pirate+set


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/bt215pirate.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/aapiratecigpack.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/bbpiratecigpack.jpg


TED Z
.

[buymycards]

I just have one beater to add to the scans.

[Sean]

Ted, if Byrne was produced with two different teams, does that mean that his card was printed in both print runs?

[ValKehl]

Hi Val...... Here is the confirmed 97-card list [includes Bobby Byrne (St. Louis variation)] from the PIRATE set find (circa 2007).

These cards were most likely printed in two 48-card series (1910 & 1912) using the regular T215-1 pre-printed (fronts) sheets.

Therefore, this tells us that Walter Johnson (pitching) must exist as a RED CROSS (T215-1) card.

Ted, thanks for trying to enlighten me with your T215-1 theory, which, in fact, I grasped the first time you presented it. You theory really means the the WaJo (pitching) card MUST HAVE BEEN PRINTED 100+ years ago, as opposed to meaning that this card MUST EXIST today, which is what I am trying to ascertain. As we both know, it is generally believed that there are many cards that were printed back in the day for which no examples any longer exist. Knowing that you have been involved with pre-War cards much longer than I have, have you ever seen a T215-1 WaJo or know of anyone who has one?
Val

[ValKehl]

Thanks to another Net54 member, I have now seen confirmation that a T215-1 card of WaJo does currently exist.

[tedzan]

Ted, if Byrne was produced with two different teams, does that mean that his card was printed in both print runs?

Sean

American Litho used original T206 pre-printed sheets to produce the RED CROSS set. A 96-card sheet, or perhaps two 48-card sheets.
Byrne (and the subjects in the TRADES list) were printed in the 1st press run (circa 1910), and the subsequent press run (circa 1912).
And, their captions reflect the before and after teams.

There are more that I can list in the T215 set that were printed with 2 teams....these quickly come to mind.

Huggins (hand at mouth) is Cincinnati while Huggins (portrait) is St Louis. This fact leads me to favor the "two 48-card sheet" theory.


TRADES....circa 1909 - Spring 1912

Bobby Byrne..................from St Louis NL to Pittsburg on Aug 19, 1909
Mike Donlin....................from Boston NL to Pittsburg on Feb 17, 1912
Clark Griffith..................signed a contract in Oct 1911 to manage Washington
Buck Herzog..................from Boston NL to New York NL on July 22, 1911
Miller Huggins)...............from Cincinati to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910
Harry Lord.....................from Boston AL to Chicago AL on Aug 11, 1910
Harry McIntyre...............from Brooklyn to Chicago NL on April 13, 1910
Matty McIntyre...............from Detroit to Chicago AL on Jan 12, 1911
Rebel Oakes...................from Cincinnati to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910
Frank Smith...................from Boston AL to Cincinnati on May 11, 1911
Harry Steinfeldt..............1912 Spring training tryout with St Louis NL



TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Thanks to another Net54 member, I have now seen confirmation that a T215-1 card of WaJo does currently exist.

Hi Val

I had no doubts that you would find that a T215-1 Walter Johnson still exists 107 years after it was printed.

Wishing you Good Luck in finding this card for your collection.

If you're going to be at the Philly Show this forthcoming weekend, stop by at booth #412, and we can be "Talkin' BB cards".


TED Z
.