A new section of the board.....

[Leon]

Sometimes I just want to say something to my friends on Net54baseball and it doesn't even concern sports. I don't feel right posting a way off topic about something not remotely sports related, other than every great once in a while, so I say nothing (which is hard for me to do). So, that being said I think it would be a great thing to have a "Water Cooler Talk" section that is not sports related, so our members can just chat about anything. Sort of like what is going on in Jim's "I'm back" thread :), except this would be a legit place for it.

Ok, so I will make a section and that takes about 30 seconds (if there is not overwhelming opposition to the section itself, this is not a foregone conclusion). My real question is this poll. Should we allow politics and religion on there? My initial thought is yes, as that is what it is for, and it will be threads that you don't have to open or participate in if you don't want to. I could see me discussing some of my liberal republican views though I doubt I would go off into religion. So, let me know your thoughts and please vote if you would like to. This will give a good idea on whether to allow these subjects or not.

I have never really wanted this type of section diluting the main board and with our new software it won't. I will also bet that this new section, which will be formed today (probably) will get a lot of activity, though I guess I could be wrong too :). It's all about making our Net54baseball a little bit more member friendly. regards

[HRBAKER]

Politics and religion, those are incendiary devices typically. What's the upside?
The discussion is the "I'm Back" thread is spontaneous and of lighter fare.

[Leon]

Politics and religion, those are incendiary devices typically. What's the upside?

If members really want to discuss them then why shouldn't they be able to if it is a designated place? I am open to not allowing them...I just want to hear good reasons on all sides. The one thing I can't stand is not talking through things and making decisions that are ill informed. Hope that makes sense? :eek:

[Matt]

Politics and religion, those are incendiary devices typically. What's the upside?

Agree with Jeff here. Currently we don't view other members as R or D. Allowing heated political/religious debates would only introduce an element of division. Especially in light of the adversarial tone those conversation have been increasingly taking in the US.

[Leon]

Agree with Jeff here. Currently we don't view other members as R or D. Allowing heated political/religious debates would only introduce an element of division. Especially in light of the adversarial tone those conversation have been increasingly taking in the US.

I am cool with not allowing them. Lets see how the vote goes and take it from there. I really want it to be as good of a section as it can be...and also be as open as possible. I voted "I don't care" :)

[jrog007]

Even though religion and politics are incendiary topics, level-headed, intelligent adults should be able to discuss these topics without malice and ill-will toward others. I think that a section for free speech is a great idea.

[wake.up.the.echoes]

...As previously stated, discussions about politics and religion tend to divide people, and can get really heated. I come to this board to get away from those sorts of discussions.

My vote is NO.

EDIT: In a post a few below here, Leon asked for a specific reason for my "NO" vote. The reason for my NO vote is simply because I like to come to Net54 to get away from things in the real world. I like to come here and remember what it was like to be a kid, even if it is just for a little while. So that's my reason why. Thanks for reading.

[Jewish-collector]

There should be a section where members can discuss politics & religion. Many other messages boards, if not all have a section for this.

I say yeah.

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[Leon]

...As previously stated, discussions about politics and religion tend to divide people, and can get really heated. I come to this board to get away from those sorts of discussions.

My vote is NO.

While I certainly agree, and know first hand, that these subjects can be divisive, I purposely mentioned that those particular threads can just be skipped over AND this will be a section for off topics. That being said if there is overwhelming opposition there won't be those topics allowed. I sort of think it would be a shame but it is what it is.....

one other thing....if you vote that there shouldn't be this section at all, and give no reason why, then your vote will hold virtually 0 weight. Call that a personal pet peeve of mine. People always have the right to disagree, but to disagree to only be disagreeable, is not something I am ever in favor of.

[Matt]

Even though religion and politics are incendiary topics, level-headed, intelligent adults should be able to discuss these topics without malice and ill-will toward others.

You've been around here a while, haven't you?

[dstraate]

Maybe it's message boards, but communication that isn't happening face to face tempts people to espouse the very outer limits (sometimes well beyond) of their beliefs. To my mind, if people want to have political chats, they have myriads of options online. I'd much prefer to keep it out of this site.

Then again, in the end, it's your site. Don't let some one-year noobie tell you how to run it.

[usernamealreadytaken]

I disagree with anything other than to-the-point vinatge baseball cards "talk."


What does a post look like in this envisioned section?: Christianity rocks!...what do you guys think?

[Leon]

Maybe it's message boards, but communication that isn't happening face to face tempts people to espouse the very outer limits (sometimes well beyond) of their beliefs. To my mind, if people want to have political chats, they have myriads of options online. I'd much prefer to keep it out of this site.

Then again, in the end, it's your site. Don't let some one-year noobie tell you how to run it.


David- anyone that knows me personally knows that is not the way I am. Your vote counts as much as anyone's, trust me on this. This will be an interesting vote and topic, in and of itself.

[Leon]

I disagree with anything other than to-the-point vinatge baseball cards "talk."


What does a post look like in this envisioned section?: Christianity rocks!...what do you guys think?

In the appropriate place then I think "Christianity Rocks" is fine. As I have said, you are just as entitled to your opinion as each and every person on the board.

[FUBAR]

PLease no, there is enough drama without politics and religion.....

[barrysloate]

I put don't allow either. Discussing politics is too toxic these days and I'm done with it. And it wouldn't be a bad idea for others to sit quietly and do the same.

[Robextend]

I voted no to both. I think there are enough forums out there for that kind of talk. I like the fact that this board is strictly hobby/sports related.

[FUBAR]

Even though religion and politics are incendiary topics, level-headed, intelligent adults should be able to discuss these topics without malice and ill-will toward others. I think that a section for free speech is a great idea.

Hold on to that Rainbow! You don't need to be Nostradamus to foresee issues with these topics... guys cannot even agree on baseball cards!

[T206Collector]

....about the personal perspective stuff in awhile, since I came across like an a$$hole last time I did it, so I'll keep it brief --

The less personal stuff I know about you guys, the better. I'm not here to make friends or alienate people. I like to see vintage baseball cards, and hear stories about vintage baseball cards. I like to share my collection and collecting interests with other like-minded collectors. I'm not likely to ever agree to a Net54 meet-and-greet and I don't care if people have to use their real names on here when they say incendiary stuff. When the "post who you are and what you do" threads are being created, I don't read them or contribute to them.

As far as I'm concerned, you guys are not real people -- you're an internet phenomena that greatly enhances my collecting experience. The more personal stuff I learn about you guys, on both sides of the voting aisle, the less I want to learn. But if you've collected baseball cards since the 1930s or have gotten Ty Cobb's autograph on a T206 card through the mail, then that's what I want to hear about -- Heck, I even want to hear about the T206 beater you picked up last week. That's what I come here to see. I love reviewing the monthly pick-up threads. You guys have some amazing collections!

So I vote no water cooler. Of course, if you guys ever do the water cooler, I won't be there so it technically shouldn't bother me -- except that I believe it will serve to divide people more than bring them together, which will then have a negative spill-over effect on the card stuff. I still have a hard time reading about baseball cards from some of the people on here that have in the past expressed extreme political or religious views.

[barrysloate]

What we need today is people with fewer opinions about what is wrong with the country. Once the two sides get at it we have nothing but shouting and noise. Nothing gets accomplished today when the left and the right start debating points. The politicians and the radio loudmouths have failed abysmally, and we won't do any better here. Do what you can to be a better person, and turn off the television and the radio.

[BleedinBlue]

My opinion is pretty close to many others stated. There are a plethora of avenues for these often heated discussions. I go to those sites when I want to go to those sites. This site is a totally different and generally peaceful area for me to spend some time avoiding work. I'd prefer to keep it that way. Now, if there were a way that I could avoid even being aware of this little corner of the site then I wouldn't care. However, given that there is always a most recent thread title shown from the main board I'm not sure how I would avoid it. While I might try to stay away and keep this site as my apolitical area of release, I'm not sure I could avoid the temptation to join in on a Sarah Palin flame thread and that's just not the point.

Besides, do we really need to know what each of the Bruce's opinion is on politics or religion?

[ethicsprof]

i feel certain that the anomosities engendered will bleed over
into this idyllic world of beautiful vintage cardboard and must vote a resounding NO to r and p.
historically, over many years, we've had the tendency to have ad hominem
discussions most anytime r and p, and a few other matters, come into play.
I say let's avoid this since times seem much more peaceful on this fine board than ever before.
imho
all the best,
barry

[4815162342]

I put don't allow either. Discussing politics is too toxic these days and I'm done with it. And it wouldn't be a bad idea for others to sit quietly and do the same.

What we need today is people with fewer opinions about what is wrong with the country. Once the two sides get at it we have nothing but shouting and noise. Nothing gets accomplished today when the left and the right start debating points. The politicians and the radio loudmouths have failed abysmally, and we won't do any better here. Do what you can to be a better person, and turn off the television and the radio.

Sit quietly and have fewer opinions? People are not robots.

I voted yes to both by the way.

[ibuysportsephemera]

I have been part of forums where all of the OT stuff leaks into the rest of the threads. Although I might not want to read the other topics, I always click on new posts when signing on, so I would have to see the titles of those water cooler topics. I come here to get away from "real world" stuff. JM2¢.

[Matt]

Sit quietly and have fewer opinions? People are not robots.


Nowhere did Barry say to not have opinions.

[triwak]

I voted no on both, for the reason stated by several others: Spill over! Animosity and oneupmanship would surely bleed into the real board - and I don't wanna hear it!

[Tcards-Please]

I voted to allow both. For those that don't want it, they don't have to go into it. Why not provide an avenue for all and those that don't want to venture into that topic certainly aren't required too. Why negate the opportunity for those that would like to carry on an adult conversation about things other than cards with like minded card collecting members?

Just my .03

r/
Frank

[baseballart]

I voted no on both, for the reason stated by several others: Spill over! Animosity and oneupmanship would surely bleed into the real board - and I don't wanna hear it!

Agreed. Disagreements on the p/r board will surely spill over.

Max

[Kawika]

I vote no way, Jose. We'll still have our occasional train wrecks; that ought to suffice. In my six decades of life I can never recall a time when there has been such polarity in this country. The "Generation Gap" of the sixties has nothing on the right vs. left divide of today. I remember once when people of Democrat and Republican persuasions actually got along for the most part - it wasn't that big of a deal. Nowadays we have marginalized each other to the point that I sometimes wonder what it had to be like in America in the 1850's - it's scary stuff. I don't want to know that Ted Z. is really a communist sympathizer or that Jim B. is actually an Exalted Cyclops in the Imperial Klan. I just want to talk about baseball cards, and, unlike T206, I want to relate to them as normal folks just like we would have thirty years ago.

[Leon]

I have been part of forums where all of the OT stuff leaks into the rest of the threads. Although I might not want to read the other topics, I always click on new posts when signing on, so I would have to see the titles of those water cooler topics. I come here to get away from "real world" stuff. JM2¢.

This is absolutely NOT the way it will be. This section will (if instituted) be where the current Watercooler Talk - Sports section is. It will not be on the front page or the memorabilia page. So, you will have to go click on the post war and watercooler section to even see it. I should have made this more clear. regards

[rdixon1208]

I voted Yes to both. It's not like Leon is talking about adding a Politics/Religion section to the board. A water cooler section with less rules would be cool with me. The key is prohibiting these conversations/debates from spilling over to the main board.

[barrysloate]

Daryl- I have plenty of opinions, and others do too. I would love to see a political discussion that was both civil and constructive. But we've had them on the board in the past and they end up becoming shouting matches. That's all I meant.

I think it's great for people to express themselves, but look at the political discourse in America today. It's really horrendous what is going on, and I don't like it one bit.

That said, I was just chatting with Leon and we both agreed there is nothing wrong with starting a section to discuss politics. If it gets too nasty it can always be shut down.

[MooseWithFleas]

My experience with religious and political discussions on forum is pretty poor. No actual discussion ever occurs and it's just people trying to force their ideas down someone elses throat.

That being said, as a long time reader and new poster, this forum has one of the classiest user bases around

[glchen]

I voted "Don't care" but after reading some of these votes, I'm tending to side with No for both also. Even though you can always skip the threads and not respond, there is always going to be some thread so provocative that people will feel compelled to respond to even though they don't want to get involved, and then things can get personal. For example, if there is some thread that says "Obama sucks" or "My neighbor had more qualifications to be President than Sarah Palin," one side or the other will feel that they just cannot let that train of thought go without a response. As someone else said, this forum is about cards and fun. There are plenty of other forums for those real life issues.

[Leon]

I want to post a new post :) about a very, very important distinction I obviously didn't make clear. This new section, if instituted will NOT be on the main board, will NOT be on the memorabilia section and of course will NOT be in the BST section. It will be its own section where the Post War Cards and Watercooler talk already are. So, if you come to the board to get away from it all, as long as you don't click on that section for Post War and Watercooler talk, you will never see a thread about it. I just want to make that abundantly clear.

Also, it looks like the voting is approximately 2-1 to not allow politics and religion but there is also an equal amount that don't care. If it is not more overwhelming than that I could see potentially (not for sure by any means) starting out allowing them and seeing how it goes. We can always make it taboo if it gets out of hand. So, we will see where this leads us. Good thoughts so far. One last thing, it will be assumed that if you don't vote NO to the section, and vote for something else, then you are ok with the section itself. Regards

[barrysloate]

And I doubt we will have any discussion about religion. I mean, what about religion would people want to talk about? Probably wouldn't get any posts.

[4815162342]

Daryl- I have plenty of opinions, and others do too. I would love to see a political discussion that was both civil and constructive. But we've had them on the board in the past and they end up becoming shouting matches. That's all I meant.

I understand, and also don't want to see any shouting matches. :)

[FrankWakefield]

After putting the little green dot in "don't allow either", I moved it to allow both. We'd be better off to talk cards, and not all of the other stuff. There are places for that, and on the card board isn't the place. But to help keep it 'not the place', allowing that stuff in the water cooler gives it a place. So anyone wanting to soapbox to that stuff can do it at the water cooler, and NOT in a regular thread. Maybe it you give it a place to go, it will go there, if it must be at all...

And thanks for asking us!

[ibuysportsephemera]

Thanks Leon...However, I still think that you are inviting trolls to the party. I hope it doesn't become too divisive.

Jeff

[Leon]

Thanks Leon...However, I still think that you are inviting trolls to the party. I hope it doesn't become too divisive.

Jeff

If I am not mistaking a troll is an anonymous person causing trouble, mainly. Since there is no anonymity allowed (there is privacy allowed) there won't be any trolls. Otherwise, I do understand what you are saying. It's interesting that the don't cares and the ones being ok with the politics and religion are exactly equal to those not wanting either. The deciding few votes could actually be the folks that say allowing politics would be ok. As Barry said, we doubt anyone will really talk about religion very much anyway...and the poll pretty much affirms that. No decision yet and even after the poll I will mull it over. So far it is very overwhelming that there is support for the section....with or without the subjects being voted on. I appreciate everyone's thoughtful responses. If anyone thinks that I already had my mind made up, that is not the case. It's not made up yet either.....I do think we have a really great board, with wonderful members, and I vow not to screw it up. :o regards

[timzcardz]

I have been part of forums where all of the OT stuff leaks into the rest of the threads. Although I might not want to read the other topics, I always click on new posts when signing on, so I would have to see the titles of those water cooler topics. I come here to get away from "real world" stuff. JM2¢.

I want to post a new post :) about a very, very important distinction I obviously didn't make clear. This new section, if instituted will NOT be on the main board, will NOT be on the memorabilia section and of course will NOT be in the BST section. It will be its own section where the Post War Cards and Watercooler talk already are. So, if you come to the board to get away from it all, as long as you don't click on that section for Post War and Watercooler talk, you will never see a thread about it. I just want to make that abundantly clear.

Also, it looks like it is being about 2-1 to not have politics and religion but there is also an equal amount that don't care. If it is not more overwhelming than that I could see potentially (not for sure by any means) starting out allowing them and seeing how it goes. We can always make it taboo if it gets out of hand. So, we will see where this leads us. Good thoughts so far. One last thing, it will be assumed that if you don't vote NO to the section, and vote for something else, then you are ok with the section itself. Regards

Leon,

Not correct.

As ibuysportsephemera pointed out, if upon entering (or anytime) click on "New Posts" in the menu bar at the top of the page you will get the new posts since your last visit from all sections of the forum including the Water Cooler and other areas.

[Leon]

Leon,

Not correct.

As ibuysportsephemera pointed out, if upon entering (or anytime) click on "New Posts" in the menu bar at the top of the page you will get the new posts since your last visit from all sections of the forum including the Water Cooler and other areas.

Hi Tim
Then my mistake. I have never clicked on that option so didn't know. thanks much....

[Rickyy]

The problem with adding general topic section is that even if you are not interested or pledge not to go read it...our curiosity gets the best of you and you end up reading and then end up getting involved...I'd rather not have access to the key that unlocks the chastity belt...:p

[Griffins]

I voted no to both. I don't see any way that it wouldn't spill over, and think having a forum such as that would greatly damage the board as we know it.

[Cat]

I voted YES on politics. I don't care if you want to add religion but that's kind of a "Yawner" topic to me.

[mayx2]

If you have it in its own place like watercooler sports then if someone doesn't want to look at it and or participate then they don't have to. Lou

[barrysloate]

You could try it for 30 days on a trial basis, monitor it, and then decide if it is worth keeping.

[michael3322]

I think there are very good points on both sides of this issue, and I like the fact that Leon is thinking about improving this forum through innovations such as new topic areas. The auction tracker for pre-war cards was a nice recent addition, for example.

That said, I side with those who said no. It is simply human nature that issues discussed in that forum will spill over into the core focus of this website and that will likely cause problems. After all, there are plenty of forums where all of us can discuss politics, religion or anything else for that matter.

This forum focuses on vintage baseball and it is probably the best on the web. I am not convinced that this forum needs to be all things to all people or that it makes sense to deviate from what it does so well right now. I think it should continue to do what it does and do it better than any other forum.

Is the reason for proposing this that the number of members is decreasing or the amount of posts is decreasing? If those are the issues, then I understand the desire among the moderators to make the site more sticky so people use it more often and contribute more. But I'm not convinced that bringing in issues that are inherently controversial, such as politics and religion, will solve those problems. I agree with those who argue that one of the best parts of this site is that it expressly doesn't do that already. It is an oasis from that.

That said, I like the democratic approach of a poll plus posting so that everyone can weigh in.

While I disagree with those who argue that it would be fine or at least not as problematic as the rest of us fear, I think they have made clear, cogent arguments for their position.

[Fred]

Ok Leon, so you want to have "yard duty" everyday on the play ground? Do you really want that head ache.

I'm going to assume that this is going to be an unmonitored area of the board that requires NO MODERATION - call it an "anything goes" part of this board.

I see much more down side than up side. I see it possibly negatively impacting the overall "calmness" of the main forum. Little squabbles will pour from the "play ground" into the real forum.

Go for it but be warned you are opening Pandora's Box. It's the proverbial "can of worms" that really doesn't need to be opened.

[toppcat]

I see no upside to including politics and religious postings here; I have never seen it work on any non-political or non-religious forum. I love to yammer about this stuff as much as the next guy, maybe a little more, but I think it would end up as very divisive.

[Zan]

I said don't allow either. This board is for vintage baseball cards. If someone wants a religion or politics board they can find another one. That stuff always starts fights and hurtful words always get thrown around.

[Rob D.]

Ok Leon, so you want to have "yard duty" everyday on the play ground? Do you really want that head ache.

I'm going to assume that this is going to be an unmonitored area of the board that requires NO MODERATION - call it an "anything goes" part of this board.

I see much more down side than up side. I see it possibly negatively impacting the overall "calmness" of the main forum. Little squabbles will pour from the "play ground" into the real forum.

Go for it but be warned you are opening Pandora's Box. It's the proverbial "can of worms" that really doesn't need to be opened.

Well said, Fred.

[Ladder7]

I dont believe in a god (because Im scared of meeting heaven's residents).

But I think such a section could be entertaining!

[Section103]

Heck, I voted "dont care" to both and I will not participate if its installed (and shame on me if I allow myself to get sucked in), really Im now curious as all get-out on what Leon wants to post. I say if it gets shot down, we give Leon a moment of grace to post whatever he wants, one time, on his own board.

[Jewish-collector]

I hope Leon over rules the voting & says, as in the 1980's movie Risky Business, "Sometimes you gotta say ....."

http://forum.mydyingbride.org/images/smilies/beerchug.gif

[Big Six]

I voted no as I look at this forum as an escape from that stuff. This can also be a very vocal group (that's a good thing) with strong opinions (also good) but it could undermine relationships otherwise based upon our mutual appreciation for the hobby. There are plenty of other places to hold those discussions anyway...

[John V]

Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! Click on the icons below to visit the different areas. Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com. Enjoy!

[quinnsryche]

If no one liked Bruce's posts because they were quite a bit more than colorful, what the heck do you think a political/religious section will bring? Do we really want the threats and name calling to reach new highs, because it most certainly will. I would tread very carefully with that one!

[4815162342]

If no one liked Bruce's posts because they were quite a bit more than colorful, what the heck do you think a political/religious section will bring? Do we really want the threats and name calling to reach new highs, because it most certainly will. I would tread very carefully with that one!

Why do threats and name calling have to be a part of religious or political dialogue? Is the fine art of debate no longer taught in schools?

[mcap100176]

I voted no. And would vote again if I could.

Would someone go to a religious forum and start a vintage baseball card discussion? Someone try it and tell me how that goes over.

For the last 10 years I have worked for or with local governments in senior management positions. Never has politics been so bad.

On a daily basis I have people yell at me because there streets aren't plowed to the pavement because "I am not a member of XXXX party." Never before have I heard that. Never mind that here in NJ there is 1,345 feet of snow on the ground with no place to put it. It's because of the political party they belong to.

This is a vintage baseball forum. Shouldn't be anything else.

[gabrinus]

I voted yes to both. I think people can disagree vehemently on things and still be on good terms. That is the art of Democracy. I got in a fistfight with a friend back in 2000 and we voted for the same candidate. We are still friends. My barber and I disagree on politics and we still get along. I do tend to agree with him more when he has sharp objects near my throat, however.

[Vol]

I voted yes.

You don't have to chime in or even view the thread if you do not wish.

[rdixon1208]

If no one liked Bruce's posts because they were quite a bit more than colorful, what the heck do you think a political/religious section will bring? Do we really want the threats and name calling to reach new highs, because it most certainly will. I would tread very carefully with that one!

Nobody said anything about a political/religious section. The idea was to allow these topics to be discussed if members wanted to.....not to start a new section all together specifically for this.

[GoldenAge50s]

I voted for "neither"--I just don't see how it wouldn't end up spilling over to the other boards after a heated discussion. I just don't think it's a section that should be part of, or is needed, on this elite Net54 sports board.

[Leon]

Wow, you guys still have some great arguments for and against. Whomever said there would be a section for politics and religion didn't quite understand the section being debated. It will be open, not specific, and this debate concerns those 2 areas of discussion...not their own section.

Folks have said "do I really want that headache?" I guess I am jaded because I believe our membership can have discussions and debate without going at each other's throats every second. If it is a go I am still undecided on how much moderating would be done....chances are it would be less than the regular board but still looked at. Someone mentioned is membership or posts down? Quite the contrary. We had 65 new members join in November, 66 in Dec and so far in January we have had 40. We started with around 600 members after the first 3 months on the new board s/w (we couldn't count with the old board) and today we have approximately 2400 registered members. As for posts, I am not sure but I would guess they are up a little bit and the BST is up substantially. So, the board's health is fine. That is not the issue. As I said in my initial post I think it would be good for our members to be able to chat about ordinary stuff, since we are a family. And as I said, there are some times I would like to post about something that is way OT and I don't because I really shouldn't.

Whomever posted a bit of the rules earlier is correct in what our forum is about. However, I think it would be a better place with an area to chat with my friends if I want to, not pertaining to sports. The real debate is concerning politics, and to a lesser degree religion, as it probably won't be talked about much anyway. I mean really, who cares how others believe? That is their personal business and more power to everyone on that matter. I hope this gives a few more thoughts. I will say I am still almost 50/50 in my thinking of allowing the politics to be discussed. I thought it would be a bit more on the affirmative side but no, after reading everyone's thoughts, I am back to square one on the issue. Also, no, there is no burning desire to post some extraordinary circumstance. If there was I would just use my "freebie" pass for an OT and do it. This is more of a longer term solution to make the board better. That is all. Thanks to all who have voiced opinions so far. They are appreciated very much. regards

[Tsaiko]

Water Coolers Suck! See, it's already getting nasty :)

Reading the responses from other board members, it seems that they are the kind of people that have a good grip on their self control, so I can't see them dragging down a friendly debate. Unless a no vote is their way of saying, "No, please don't tempt my inner a$$h@le"

I voted Don't Care. I won't get involved in a heated opinion debate anyway.

As a social experiment, if this section does exist for a period of time, we might find out that people of a particular party collect specific cards more than people of another party. That would be weird, wouldn't it? You might hear angry remarks like, "You left winged T206ers are all alike...." :D Or not ;)

[BleedinBlue]

"You left winged T206ers are all alike...." :D Or not ;)


The problem with society today is those damn Right Wing Old Judge Collectors...

[ValKehl]

Leon - I voted "yes" to both before reading all the posts, because I know that I can read your liberal Republican (do I sense an oxymoron here?) views without going ballistic on you, and I'm sure you can react likewise when you read my conservative Democrat views! :D

But, after reading all the posts, I now think it would be best not to allow either because these two subjects are too divisive - why risk ruining the good thing that you/we have going?!

Having said this, I suggest that if you do allow both, that you establish separate sections for each in addition to the water cooler section (in which neither politics nor religion would be permitted).
Val

[ethicsprof]

as i said in my earlier post, i have been on this board for a number of years and am amazed and happy to see how much less the ad hominem has been in the last couple of years with the new forum.
the discussions and scholarship regarding the beautiful pieces of cardboard
have excelled in many ways, too, even though we have many who come on board as admitted newbies.
I like what we've become.
I remember full well over the years when discussions of religion and politics slipped in.
These tended to be the worst of times for our board with ad hominem at its height.
I say that we stay loyal to the cardboard.
And by doing so, I believe we will continue to stay loyal to each other as colleagues, friends, and family---the last word underscored ably by Leon---
without ad hominem.
My dear friend, Barry Sloate, i'm surprised that you indicate a 30 day trial, for
i've seen you deeply hurt at some comments in the area of religion over the years. I,too, was hurt by the comments. I don't want this to happen to you or anyone again.
I've said enough. I'll be on this board for ages---just like i've already been on it for ages---no matter what is decided. The one who mentioned Pandora's box earlier speaks to the heart of my own fear.
all the best,
barry

[Butch7999]

Posts 2, 4, 7, 11, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20, 21, 22, 24, 26, 28, 29, 33, 34, 43, 44, 49, 51, 56, 57, 58, 60, 64, 69, and most especially 19 and 50, speak for us. An Anything-Goes (sub)forum will instantly invite politics and religion as the main topics there. Vehement animosity on a politics/religion forum is inevitable, and the ill feelings that will generate will inevitably and unstoppably spill over onto the main boards and the relationships between members. We know from experience. We run our own little podunk forums. So we vote no, just to encourage Leon not to entertain the idea any further. That said, we hate being told how to run our forums, and this forum is Leon's, so it's entirely his call. He can, and should, do as he likes and as he thinks best.

[Robbie]

I voted "Yes" before I voted "No."

At Net54, I would keep the discussion to Ty Cobb vs. Honus Wagner rather than Creationism vs. Evolution.

[teetwoohsix]

I voted in the "I don't care,do what you want to:)" section, mostly because I can't make up my mind. I see both sides, the pros and cons. But I also agree that if you don't want to participate in it, just don't click on it ;).

I'm sure other topics would be going on in there, maybe other than religion and politics? I've often wondered how many board members are into the show on the History channel called "Ancient Aliens"........I love that show- to me, it is fascinating (just an example :D)

Sincerely, Clayton

[barrysloate]

Hi Barry- I was hurt over some comments about religion? You know, I don't remember. In fact, I can't even recall a discussion we've had on the board regarding it. Politics yes, but not religion. Is it just the old memory not working?:(

It doesn't matter whether or not Leon does decide to expand the board, because the fact is nobody has to even look at a new section if they so choose. I never look at the golf section, and if someone discovered the cure for cancer and posted it there I wouldn't even know about it.

You can either read and participate in a political debate; or just read and not participate; or not even open it at all. In that respect, there's no harm in Leon starting a new area of the board.

[calvindog]

Barry, we know you haven't been watching the Golf section -- we've been killing you in there the past few months. Carry on.

[Davalillo]

I voted no religion and no politics. It brings on arguments and noone's mind is ever changed. I would participate in water cooler if it was about music or some other topic but when it gets into politics especially it can become nasty. I want all aspects on net 54 to be enjoyable and nin-stressful.

Jim

[calvindog]

Jim! Welcome back.

[mr2686]

Am I missing something here? I thought Baseball was a religion! :D

[barrysloate]

Now because of what Jeff said I felt obligated to check out the golf section...not a whole lot of activity over there.

A section on popular music, as Jim suggested, would be hugely popular. Of course it too has nothing to do with vintage baseball cards, but there probably wouldn't be too much arguing going on.

[E93]

Not having read any of the posts on this thread, I voted against discussion of politics and religion. I feel very strongly about it. It only brings animosity and serves to divide the board. If people want to discuss that stuff off the board, go for it. I do every day. But I don't want that stuff souring a refuge from the storm
JimB

[mintacular]

Hi I'd like to change my vote and be the first and only to vote for religion only but not politics. I can handle a food fight over Jesus but not so much politics :) On a serious note I think "media" should be one of the topics tossed in there with "religion" and "politics"

[mark evans]

I don't have strong feelings about this but think that allowing controversial topics will likely impose additional responsibilities upon the moderators to try and ensure civility.

Mark

[dougscats]

"Am I missing something here? I thought Baseball was a religion!"

Nice.

Wow!--What controversy! Responses coming in faster than you can read. You've stirred the pot, Leon; love it.

My initial reaction is, however, that you're asking for trouble.

Religion and politics can be very destructive issues, in many unforeseen ways.

I'm an advocate of free speech myself, and it seems it's already practiced here, within the limits of "collecting" [for want of a better generalization].

For myself, I do appreciate this forum as a tremendous resource of expertise and a friendly place for a baseball card collector.

Whatever, thanks and good luck.

Doug

[WWGjohn]

Having seen the level of civility that has appeared on this board over the last few years when any serious (or not so serious) controversy has occurred, I think this new section is a Pandora's box, especially if the subjects of religion and politics are allowed. There are plenty of other public forums where people can rant and rave all they want on these topics. I like the board the way it is now and I would not like to be the moderator trying to keep a lid on potentially explosive rhetoric if this new section comes to pass.

John

[T206Collector]

If we all come here because of our joint love for pre-war cardboard, it is foolish to think that any other discussion will bring us closer together.

[iggyman]

I don't think it's needed, and I'm real sure it will not enhance this forum in any way. Quite the opposite might happen, so I voted "please forget about it".

Why in the heck, would I ever feel the need to discuss whether it actually really really snows in Hawaii, with a bunch of baseball card aficionados. I can find a thousand people to discuss snow in Hawaii, but if I run into a prehistoric baseball card dude, I'm talking baseball cards. Simple as that!

Lovely Day...

[Frank A]

There is no such thing as an adult conversation when it comes to these two topics. They may start out that way but seldom end in such an easy fashion. By the end of most of these conversations guys are screaming in their own homes and pulling out their hair, and I can't afford to pull any out. I voted no on both ends, but I know if they are on here I will have to visit. OH Lord. Frank

[Doug]

I went with "I don't care, do what you want to", but then again I'm not really religious, politically inclined or easily offended. :)

[barrysloate]

Here's something funny regarding the internet:

I just clicked on Google News and went to a story about Mayor Bloomberg and the snowstorm we just had. Some of you may know that he really screwed up the blizzard cleanup a few weeks ago so all eyes are on him today (we had about 8-10 inches last night). Would you believe at the end of the article people are commenting, and they're cursing and fighting with each other...over a snowfall! How can you get combative over such a benign topic? What is it about internet chat boards that often brings out the worst in people? Compared to some of these sites, Net54 is like the boy scouts. I think we are the best behaved internet group around!

[teetwoohsix]

I went with "I don't care, do what you want to", but then again I'm not really religious, politically inclined or easily offended. :)

Well said Doug !! :D

[usernamealreadytaken]

Why do the poll if only to ingnore its clear and convincing result?

By better than 2-1 the answer is no.

[whitehse]

If the Moderators are ready for more work I say why not????

[Kawika]

I don't think it's needed, and I'm real sure it will not enhance this forum in any way. Quite the opposite might happen, so I voted "please forget about it".

Why in the heck, would I ever feel the need to discuss whether it actually really really snows in Hawaii, with a bunch of baseball card aficionados. I can find a thousand people to discuss snow in Hawaii, but if I run into a prehistoric baseball card dude, I'm talking baseball cards. Simple as that!

Lovely Day...
It does indeed snow in Hawaii. Probably doing so right now on Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa on the Big Island as we are presently experiencing a very wet and unpleasant winter storm at lower elevations. That and anybody who doesn't agree with me sucks.

[Davalillo]

Jeff,

Thanks. I will save my political comments for your radio show. :)

[tothrk]

I voted yes to both. It's not like anyone is holding you at gunpoint to read this section if you don't want to. I feel it will be worth it to watch Brucii make at least a few posts. If this section turns into an absolute nightmare, it can always be shut down. Arguments happen all the time, everywhere. I enjoy discussing politics & feel I can have an intelligent and constructive discussion here more than anywhere else.

[barrysloate]

I don't think Bruce will be doing any posting around here.

[Fred]

We're all adults until we strongly (vehemently) disagree with someone about politics or religion. Then the gloves come off and people lose all control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO_QntXc-c4

Ya know, when's the last time we saw a good train wreck of a thread?

[tothrk]

I don't think Bruce will be doing any posting around here.

Wow. I was looking forward to this. This is incredibly disappointing. Similar to when I found out Santa wasn't real.

[Leon]

I don't think it's needed, and I'm real sure it will not enhance this forum in any way. Quite the opposite might happen, so I voted "please forget about it".

Why in the heck, would I ever feel the need to discuss whether it actually really really snows in Hawaii, with a bunch of baseball card aficionados. I can find a thousand people to discuss snow in Hawaii, but if I run into a prehistoric baseball card dude, I'm talking baseball cards. Simple as that!

Lovely Day...

Easy solution. You don't have to look at it.... :)

As far as why vote if it won't be used......because it helps make a more informed decision. Does that answer that question? As of right now I have changed my mind and am leaning to not allowing politics or religion on that section.

[oldjudge]

I see no benefit in adding this section and many potential problems. Everything should be done to encourage more vinatage card talk, not to offer alternatives to it. Is the purpose of the board to maximize vintage card interest or to maximize eyeballs? If it is the latter the new area may make sense; I hope that is not the case.

[Leon]

I see no benefit in adding this section and many potential problems. Everything should be done to encourage more vinatage card talk, not to offer alternatives to it. Is the purpose of the board to maximize vintage card interest or to maximize eyeballs? If it is the latter the new area may make sense; I hope that is not the case.

Jay, as stated earlier, and evidenced by the 93.4% approval voting for this section, I feel this is a family. Family can talk about other things than baseball cards. You don't ever, ever have to look at that section. I find it hard to understand why people want to deny others from doing something they want to do that is harmless. It makes 0 sense to me. Please help me understand why you don't want me to chat with my friends when you neither have to look at that area or be involved in it? regards

[uffda51]

What Jim B. said. A thousand times, no.

[tothrk]

Jay, as stated earlier, and evidenced by the 93.4% approval voting for this section, I feel this is a family. Family can talk about other things than baseball cards. You don't ever, ever have to look at that section. I find it hard to understand why people want to deny others from doing something they want to do that is harmless. It makes 0 sense to me. Please help me understand why you don't want me to chat with my friends when you neither have to look at that area or be involved in it? regards

This is why this area should be allowed. The people who don't want it never even have to look at it. As I stated earlier, if it turns into quicksand, it can be removed. We are all adults (mostly). The people who want it can discuss current topics. The people who don't want it are not being forced to look at it.

[Rob D.]

How about an area where folks can upload porn clips? Ya know, because those who don't want it will never have to even look at it.

Is the purpose of the board to maximize vintage card interest or to maximize eyeballs?

Excellent question, by the way.

[Leon]

How about an area where folks can upload porn clips? Ya know, because those who don't want it will never have to even look at it.



That won't be allowed. See new rules when they come out :)

[Fred]

Now Rob, would that be soft or hard porn? I mean we should probably discuss that right now.

I'm sure there are those that feel hard porn may be a bit over the top but then there are those that may feel it has nothing to do with vintage baseball cards. You have to figure out where to draw the line and then you must remember that one man's hard porn could be another man's soft porn.

Leon, can we post porn? Can we? Can we? :p

[Fred]

Ok, so we can, until the new rules come out... is that about right?

[Leon]

Ok, so we can, until the new rules come out... is that about right?

sure thing if you want to be banned...go for it :)

[Fred]

Ok, take the fun right out of it...

I was thinking about a "soft" scene from "Bull Durham" - you know, when Annie's teaching Luke about baseball....

[Anthony S.]

What if the porn features a vintage baseball card as one of the main characters?

One plot concern: Did they have pizza deliverymen in the 1880's?

[Leon]

Ok, take the fun right out of it...

I was thinking about a "soft" scene from "Bull Durham" - you know, when Annie's teaching Luke about baseball....

The new rules are taking a bit longer than anticipated. I want to make sure everything is covered. I just added pornography to the things that can not be posted on the site :). Also, of course there is a catch all clause too....which gives broad power for things that make sense but weren't covered. I hope to have them up this week.....There will not be a poll and they are no debatable. That being said the board will still be run the same way as always. I really do try to give as much latitude as possible, while trying to keep civility. Just because you are a pain in my butt on the board doesn't mean you can't post....otherwise a few folks would no longer be with us.

Also, I find it interesting that some of the folks that didn't want the new board s/w (which only a blind person wouldn't think was better than the old s/w) are the same ones that don't want the new section at all. Some things never change.

[sealmark2]

Leon:

There is plenty of B.S. dialogue already on the news, radio, TV, facebook, Twitter etc ad nuseum and you have a great site here. Why muck it up?

We have Beck, Olberman, Matthews, O'Rielly, Savage, Kos ad infnitum for those who are couch bound. Please leave N54 as it was intended.

In view of last weekends events in Tucson this would be a major mistake in my opinion. Pretty soon some 54's will be attacking each other for absolutely no benefit.

Mark K. Bowers
sealmark

[toppcat]

Leon:


We have Beck, Olberman, Matthews, O'Rielly, Savage, Kos ad infnitum for those who are couch bound. Please leave N54 as it was intended.

Mark K. Bowers
sealmark

You forgot Kent Brockman ;)

[Fred]

Here we go...
Here we go...
Here we go...

I started a thread regarding poitics in the Water Cooler section!

[Leon]

As everyone can see by the poll, with 223 people voting so far, there is a 93% approval rating for a new off topic chat section. For the 15 people that don't want the new section, the other 208 appreciate you letting us have more fun. There was over 50% that do not want politics or religion to be topics, so they won't be permitted.

As a comparison, changing to the new s/w a year and a half ago, if I remember correctly, only had about an 80% approval rating. This is much higher than that, and I would be a bit surprised if we don't have close to 100% of our members that think the new software is better than the old software, as of today. For the 93% that don't have an issue with the new section you can join in anytime, and for the 7% that don't want it, you don't have to but are still welcome to. This doesn't mean an occasional off topic won't be permitted on the main board, they will. But most of them will be in the section for them. The new board rules will go up this week and they will be announced for all to read. Just to be clear, again, I don't see the board changing at all with the new rules. For those that like it the way it is, you should be happy and for those that don't, you will remain unhappy. All in a days collecting. I did listen and took notice of your opinion. I wouldn't have asked if I was unwilling to change mine. Once again thanks to all of our great board members for helping make this decision, and this board, be the best vintage baseball card board on the net. best regards

[Leon]

Here we go...
Here we go...
Here we go...

I started a thread regarding poitics in the Water Cooler section!

yes, here we go.....thread locked and member banned for 1 week. best regards

unbanned because Fred is a good guy :)....but that thread will stay locked :)

[Matt]

Leon - can we vote on new rules to be added? E.g. a rule that everyone must refrain from starting a thread asking about the authenticity of a Goudey Ruth with a blurry scan until they have started at least 10 other good threads in that forum?

[iggyman]

As everyone can see by the poll, with 223 people voting so far, there is a 93% approval rating for a new off topic chat section. For the 15 people that don't want the new section, the other 208 appreciate you letting us have more fun. There was over 50% that do not want politics or religion to be topics, so they won't be permitted.

Nice spinning. Can I change my vote to "I don't care", heaven forbid I get lumped in with those sociopaths that voted against the thread???

Lovely Day...

[Leon]

Nice spinning. Can I change my vote to "I don't care", heaven forbid I get lumped in with those sociopaths that voted against the thread???

Lovely Day...

Sure thing....you can change it, duly noted. If you want to call people sociopaths you can do that too. It's America....

[T206Collector]

1. I was not in favor of the change to a new board and I have found ZERO benefit in my own interests in Net54 as a result of the change to a new board. The new board is still more cluttered than the old one -- the gift of sight is somewhat a curse, I guess -- and thus my prior objection is still completely true today.

Here's a link to a thread about Ty Cobb on the old board. Take a read -- see how much easier it is to review and read? Now try doing it from your iPhone or Blackberry. Again, much easier in the old world.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1218601468/last-1218734638/Question+about+the+T206+Ty+Cobb+cards.......

2. It is misleading to say that a water cooler section has a 93% approval rating based on the poll as currently structured. While no further polls are warranted on this topic, I would predict that a binary choice -- water cooler vs. no water cooler -- would show more than 7% against, based on the comments on this thread.

3. Finally, on the concept that this is a family and you want a place on here to talk to your family, that's where you completely lose me and, frankly, this concept does not give enough credit to the value of this board as it is found by most of the people who check it out as an information source on pre-war baseball cards, decidedly not a family.

Moreover, the more you change a proven commodity, the greater the risk that you will lose its essence. Look no further than eBay, which ran much more smoothly as a pure auction site, than it does as a BIN depository. Sure, eBay may make more money doing that, but does anyone seriously question that eBay has lost the essence that made it so popular in the first place? The more add-ons you make to a fundamentally text-based pre-WW2 baseball card message board, the more you run the risk of diluting the brand. And to cavalierly make these add-ons without any acknowledgment of the risk of change is unfortunate and makes me somewhat pessimistic of the board's future.

[timzcardz]

1. I was not in favor of the change to a new board and I have found ZERO benefit in my own interests in Net54 as a result of the change to a new board. The new board is still more cluttered than the old one -- the gift of sight is somewhat a curse, I guess -- and thus my prior objection is still completely true today.

Here's a link to a thread about Ty Cobb on the old board. Take a read -- see how much easier it is to review and read? Now try doing it from your iPhone or Blackberry. Again, much easier in the old world.http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1218601468/last-1218734638/Question+about+the+T206+Ty+Cobb+cards.......


FYI,

IF Leon choses, witin the vBulletin software is the option to alos provide a mobile version which is much easier to read on mobile devices.

I know this from a non-hobby (well, non-this-hobby at least) forum that I am on.

[Big Six]

Hoping Leon would consider this...

[michael3322]

Dear Leon,

With all due respect, I don't think your characterization of a 93% approval rating is completely accurate.

In fact, one could easily argue that the approval rating is actually 40% since most who voted that "neither politics or religion" should be included may also believe that this entire section is probably not in the best interests of the website.

If you are looking for the answer, then perhaps you should hold separate poll that asks that very question, rather than trying to answer multiple questions with a single poll question.

Just a thought...

As everyone can see by the poll, with 223 people voting so far, there is a 93% approval rating for a new off topic chat section. For the 15 people that don't want the new section, the other 208 appreciate you letting us have more fun. There was over 50% that do not want politics or religion to be topics, so they won't be permitted.

As a comparison, changing to the new s/w a year and a half ago, if I remember correctly, only had about an 80% approval rating. This is much higher than that, and I would be a bit surprised if we don't have close to 100% of our members that think the new software is better than the old software, as of today. For the 93% that don't have an issue with the new section you can join in anytime, and for the 7% that don't want it, you don't have to but are still welcome to. This doesn't mean an occasional off topic won't be permitted on the main board, they will. But most of them will be in the section for them. The new board rules will go up this week and they will be announced for all to read. Just to be clear, again, I don't see the board changing at all with the new rules. For those that like it the way it is, you should be happy and for those that don't, you will remain unhappy. All in a days collecting. I did listen and took notice of your opinion. I wouldn't have asked if I was unwilling to change mine. Once again thanks to all of our great board members for helping make this decision, and this board, be the best vintage baseball card board on the net. best regards

[calvindog]

1. I was not in favor of the change to a new board and I have found ZERO benefit in my own interests in Net54 as a result of the change to a new board. The new board is still more cluttered than the old one -- the gift of sight is somewhat a curse, I guess -- and thus my prior objection is still completely true today.

Here's a link to a thread about Ty Cobb on the old board. Take a read -- see how much easier it is to review and read? Now try doing it from your iPhone or Blackberry. Again, much easier in the old world.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1218601468/last-1218734638/Question+about+the+T206+Ty+Cobb+cards.......

2. It is misleading to say that a water cooler section has a 93% approval rating based on the poll as currently structured. While no further polls are warranted on this topic, I would predict that a binary choice -- water cooler vs. no water cooler -- would show more than 7% against, based on the comments on this thread.

3. Finally, on the concept that this is a family and you want a place on here to talk to your family, that's where you completely lose me and, frankly, this concept does not give enough credit to the value of this board as it is found by most of the people who check it out as an information source on pre-war baseball cards, decidedly not a family.

Moreover, the more you change a proven commodity, the greater the risk that you will lose its essence. Look no further than eBay, which ran much more smoothly as a pure auction site, than it does as a BIN depository. Sure, eBay may make more money doing that, but does anyone seriously question that eBay has lost the essence that made it so popular in the first place? The more add-ons you make to a fundamentally text-based pre-WW2 baseball card message board, the more you run the risk of diluting the brand. And to cavalierly make these add-ons without any acknowledgment of the risk of change is unfortunate and makes me somewhat pessimistic of the board's future.

Oh no you didn't!

[4815162342]

FYI,

IF Leon choses, witin the vBulletin software is the option to alos provide a mobile version which is much easier to read on mobile devices.

I know this from a non-hobby (well, non-this-hobby at least) forum that I am on.

+1

A mobile version would be fantastic. Really the only problem I have viewing the site on my iPhone is the "go to first new post" image-links being too small. I always have to pinch-zoom to be able to click them.

[HRBAKER]

+1

A mobile version would be fantastic. Really the only problem I have viewing the site on my iPhone is the "go to first new post" image-links being too small. I always have to pinch-zoom to be able to click them.


I'm all for multi-tasking but I am not sure I can drive, talk, text, play "Words With Friends" and read Net54 at the same time. :eek:

[T206Collector]

Oh no you didn't!

I almost missed this line beneath the 14-line block quote, which is a mis-/over-used and cumbersome feature of the new board.

[Rob D.]

I'm all for multi-tasking but I am not sure I can drive, talk, text, play "Words With Friends" and read Net54 at the same time. :eek:

Please try. For the sake of the family.

[Anthony S.]

I have no problems reading this site on my iphone.

[Jim VB]

Please try. For the sake of the family.

If I call Rob D. a "bolshevik," is that a political post?

[chaddurbin]

Please try. For the sake of the family.

lol so good. you're wasting your talent in ohio, should be writing a pilot or producing a sitcom out here.

[T206Collector]

I have no problems reading this site on my iphone.

Reading is less the issue than posting remotely. The old site was much easier to make comments on from a mobile device because of how it was set up.

[Leon]

1. I was not in favor of the change to a new board and I have found ZERO benefit in my own interests in Net54 as a result of the change to a new board. The new board is still more cluttered than the old one -- the gift of sight is somewhat a curse, I guess -- and thus my prior objection is still completely true today.

Here's a link to a thread about Ty Cobb on the old board. Take a read -- see how much easier it is to review and read? Now try doing it from your iPhone or Blackberry. Again, much easier in the old world.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1218601468/last-1218734638/Question+about+the+T206+Ty+Cobb+cards.......

2. It is misleading to say that a water cooler section has a 93% approval rating based on the poll as currently structured. While no further polls are warranted on this topic, I would predict that a binary choice -- water cooler vs. no water cooler -- would show more than 7% against, based on the comments on this thread.

3. Finally, on the concept that this is a family and you want a place on here to talk to your family, that's where you completely lose me and, frankly, this concept does not give enough credit to the value of this board as it is found by most of the people who check it out as an information source on pre-war baseball cards, decidedly not a family.

Moreover, the more you change a proven commodity, the greater the risk that you will lose its essence. Look no further than eBay, which ran much more smoothly as a pure auction site, than it does as a BIN depository. Sure, eBay may make more money doing that, but does anyone seriously question that eBay has lost the essence that made it so popular in the first place? The more add-ons you make to a fundamentally text-based pre-WW2 baseball card message board, the more you run the risk of diluting the brand. And to cavalierly make these add-ons without any acknowledgment of the risk of change is unfortunate and makes me somewhat pessimistic of the board's future.

1. You weren't in favor of the change to the new board s/w. That is why I used the term "virtually" when I said 100%. Your objection to the new technology is taken into account and noted.

2. I agree, I should have said that 93% approve OR DON'T really care one way of the other.

3. ON the concept of family....you are absolutely entitled to your collecting methodology and the lack of wanting to make friends in the hobby. As long as you don't harm anyone else, I have no issue with folks not wanting to have camaraderie, it's their choice. As far as value of the board, I think that is in the eye of the beholder, so your point is valid for you, not so much for me.

4. As far as changing a proven commodity, I feel it is my responsibility to always look to make our home/board a better place. So that is what I do for the masses, understanding there will be folks that don't like any decision that is ever made. Where you feel it will dilute the board, to have a place we can talk with our friends, I feel it will enhance it. We can politely agree to disagree on that aspect of it. You are pessimistic and I am extremely optimistic. With over 60 new members joining each and every month since the new s/w has been in place, I feel something must be going ok. My glass is usually have full though.

I do appreciate your views as it's always good to get the counterpoints in order to make more informed decisions. As for an Iphone app, we will look into that in the (near) future. However, we already have one person speaking up that says he has no problem with it. I do think it is probably needed long term.

best regards and happy collecting

[T206Collector]

I do appreciate your views as it's always good to get the counterpoints in order to make more informed decisions.

Thanks. I think you understand my perspective.

[4815162342]

Forum Runner is a vBulletin and phpBB forum add-on that allows your users to access your forum at blazing fast speeds by using a native application installed on their mobile phone (Android or iPhone) or iPad/iPod Touch device. Forum Runner currently supports vBulletin v3.6.x, vBulletin v3.7.x, vBulletin v3.8.x, vBulletin v4.0.x, vBulletin v4.1.x, and phpBB v3.0.x.

http://www.forumrunner.net/

[Leon]

http://www.forumrunner.net/

My only concern is all of the customization we have done on this forum might not work with it. Let me let our techy person take a look, when he can, and if he thinks it will be ok then of course I have no problem with it....

When I spoke to another Vbulletin moderator and tech person, not long ago, they looked at our forum and said it was beyond their technical expertise as far as helping with some issues. I know we aren't the most advanced Vbulletin site but we are not a simple one either...thanks for sharing this link....regards

[WWGjohn]

I resent being referred to as a sociopath simply because I voted against having this new forum section. This is exactly the sort of venom that has often turned me off to this forum. Since I don't post here very often, I'm my lack of presence will not be noticed.

John

[Jim VB]

I resent being referred to as a sociopath simply because I voted against having this new forum section. This is exactly the sort of venom that has often turned me off to this forum. Since I don't post here very often, I'm my lack of presence will not be noticed.

John

Please save me the trouble of having to go back and re-read 130+ posts, and point me in the direction of whomever called you a sociopath. I will then find some niggling fault with their personality and verbally slap them around a little.


(Note: I don't care if there is a new section or not. I voted no religion or politics. I figure, if we're not talking cards, politics, or religion, there isn't much to say anyway. If that makes me a sociopath also, so be it. I'll wear it proudly.)


Edited to add: OK I found it. It was iggy, for god's sake! (Can I say that without making it a religious post?) Everything he says is tongue in cheek! If you're going to get riled up at someone, please get riled up at Rob D.

[iggyman]

Heck, I didn't even know how to spell sociopath, so I had to google it. I thought it would make my point..........my post was meant in jest, just trying to make Leon realize that perhaps he might have hurt my feelings a little bit, by being so harsh on those that voted against Christopher Columbus sailing into the sunset. But I'm over it now and don't take it personally, like that wise philosopher Tom Brady said, "I've been called worst."

Lovely Day...

P.S. I'm over it now, simply because I came to the realization that it was a rigged election (just wanted to make that clear):)..........(please notice the smiley face, I'm not really in a mood for being banned).

[Leon]

Heck, I didn't even know how to spell sociopath, so I had to google it. I thought it would make my point..........my post was meant in jest, just trying to make Leon realize that perhaps he might have hurt my feelings a little bit, by being so harsh on those that voted against Christopher Columbus sailing into the sunset. But I'm over it now and don't take it personally, like that wise philosopher Tom Brady said, "I've been called worst."

Lovely Day...

P.S. I'm over it now, simply because I came to the realization that it was a rigged election (just wanted to make that clear):)..........(please notice the smiley face, I'm not really in a mood for being banned).

Iggy, my apologies if I hurt your feelings. I have always liked you and your posts, even though a couple of times, in several years, we might have disagreed on something. For the record I also profusely apologized in some private emails with Fred....for jumping too quickly. I sort of felt like I was being piled on and tested, at that moment. I am sure it's a bit difficult to understand but being where the buck stops isn't quite all it's cracked up to be, on many occasions. Other times I guess I get to be the life of the party :) best regards