Blank-Backed 1934 Goudey card?

[leftygrove10]

I picked up a blank-backed 1934 Goudey Grove card recently -- mainly because of the novelty of it. The seller claimed that the card was half the thickness of a normal 1934 Goudey. I compared the thickness of this card to the thickness of a normal 1934 Goudey card and didn't see a significant difference. I almost think that the two cards are the same thickness. I do not know exactly how 1934 Goudey cards were created, but I assume that it was one piece of cardboard with printing on the front and back. I do not believe that two pieces of cardboard were glued together to make the front and back. If that were the case, then I could see someone pulling off the back part of the card. In that case, though, the thickness of the card would be reduced.

Either way, please see scans below of this blank-backed card and a normal 1934 Goudey card. Any ideas? Could this blank-backed card have been purposely produced without print on the back? I see some discoloration in the top right of the back, but I'm not sure what to make of that. Is it possible that this card once had printing on the back, then was glued to a book/album, then later removed with the complete loss of the printing on the back? Do any of you have any blank-backed 1934 Goudey cards?

http://www.bandkgreen.net/lefty_grove/1934_goudey_blank_back.jpg

http://www.bandkgreen.net/lefty_grove/1934_goudey_psa5.jpg

[fkw]

I believe the stock is many thin layers of paper and can be skinned.

The color of the card stock on back is not the same... looks like it missing the whiter top layer??
Im thinking skinned?? Maybe

[HRBAKER]

Brad,
I have had this Bill Terry for several years. Like Frank mentioned, I have always assumed it was just a skinned back.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s172/hrbaker/AUTOS/34Gterryfr.jpghttp://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s172/hrbaker/AUTOS/34Gterrybk.jpg

[old-baseball]

I bought this several years ago as a blank backed proof (printers scrap maybe?). Only paid about $10 for it so it was not big deal. The paper on the reverse looks very similar to Brad's. It really doesn't look like it was pulled apart, but who knows??? If it was pulled apart someone did a heck of a job in being neat. It is much thinner than It was a novelty to add to my 1935 Goudey collection.

http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=16&pictureid=2833

[rhettyeakley]

Along the lines of what Frank said... Goudey cards are not like T206, E121, etc. cards (ie the ones that are easily soaked). The back is a very thin layer of paper that includes the printing on it--and it is lighter than the underlying card stock that makes up the bulk of the thickness of the card.

I know this as many years ago I got a scrapbook with several Goudey cards in it and those 1934 Goudey's do not soak worth a dang due to their construction. I ruined a common or two before I threw in the towel and sold them "as is". The glue was not the right type to really soak well either.

-Rhett

[steve B]

Yep, what Rhett said.

Pick up a Goudey in really bad condition. You can flare out the corners like a deck of cards. The front surface and back surface are separate.

I think the front and back were on the cardboard before printing, but not positive. I've never seen a paper Goudey. But... Some Jigsaw puzzles are printed on paper then glued to the cardboard before die cutting. it cuts down on wasting the more expensive cardboard.

Steve B

[leftygrove10]

Thanks for your responses, guys... I will assume, then, that the card has been skinned.... for whatever reason... Either way, it is a neat card....

[bbcard1]

Though it is modern, I have a funky "set" of 1970 Bill Trumpy Topps football blank backs...one with a gray back and one with a white back.

[sb1]

Well... I hate to drag up an old post but it seemed relevant. We have a 1934 Goudey blank backed Rolfe in the up coming auction which has a no question blank back, it even has some wet sheet transfer from his dark blue cap on the back, which is much more visible in person and is definitely blue print under a loupe. More thoughts.

[Cardboard Junkie]

I advise you to have a tpg authenticate it and slab it. Dave.

[sb1]

Thanks, but I have already done that myself. It's a real 1934 Goudey Rolfe with a blank back.

Apparently people think a TPG validates everything, some of us have been doing this longer than they have. Perhaps if I paid myself to do assess it, my determination would have more merit.

[iggyman]

Okay, good idea......but I still can't see it on the registry?

"Lovely Day!"


Thanks, but I have already done that myself. It's a real 1934 Goudey Rolfe with a blank back.

Apparently people think a TPG validates everything, some of us have been doing this longer than they have. Perhaps if I paid myself to do assess it, my determination would have more merit.

[brianp-beme]

I would trust Scott over any grading company...for an example of TPG competency check out the thread on the misidentified W504 card that Dan Mckee posted. Sometimes it seems the grading companies hire the blind and the mentally challenged. In their defense, at least I have never seen a card inserted into a holder backwards or upside down.

Brian

[Cardboard Junkie]

Thanks, but I have already done that myself. It's a real 1934 Goudey Rolfe with a blank back.

Apparently people think a TPG validates everything, some of us have been doing this longer than they have. Perhaps if I paid myself to do assess it, my determination would have more merit.

If not authenticated and slabbed by psa, sgc, or beckett, you will leave money on the table.

[atx840]

That looks like a legit BB, smooth back and the WST..nice card!

Similar to this T218
http://i.imgur.com/hw2wsRd.jpg

[glchen]

If not authenticated and slabbed by psa, sgc, or beckett, you will leave money on the table.

+1

[T205 GB]

I am pretty sure that there will be not much if any money left on the table for the card Scott has. Leon and Scott's AH is highly reputable and I can't really remember ever once seeing a posting about a miss identified card, inaccurate description, or any other issues from there. Regardless of wether Leon is the moderator and forum owner I am sure if there was an issue it would be brought here for disscussion. With that said I do believe that it will bring top dollar and don't need a TPG to give an opinion that it is what it is.

[Leon]

I am pretty sure that there will be not much if any money left on the table for the card Scott has. Leon and Scott's AH is highly reputable and I can't really remember ever once seeing a posting about a miss identified card, inaccurate description, or any other issues from there. Regardless of wether Leon is the moderator and forum owner I am sure if there was an issue it would be brought here for disscussion. With that said I do believe that it will bring top dollar and don't need a TPG to give an opinion that it is what it is.

Thanks Andrew. Scott and I will definitely discuss this. We never want to leave money on the table for our valued consignors.

[drcy]

It is possible for all cards to be found genuinely black backed. Printing errors or proofs. I pulled a blank back out of Topps packs as a kid. Considering Goudeys and similar cards were pasted into albums, you can also find them skinned.

I would think the best bet would be to card to various other 1934 Goudeys-- texture, etc. Skinned Old Judges are often simple to identify, because they pealed the paper thin photo off the cardboard backing. The skinned photo is perhaps 1/20th as thick as regular.

Forensically speaking, there are light meters that to 'point zero zero whatever' accuracy measure the opacity of material (how much light the material lets through). Might help aid in giving an opinion. I have one, but have never used one on a card.

For the record, there are even glossmeters that measure to 'point zero zero' the gloss of a material. The little metal machine shines light on a material surface (chrome, cardboard, whatever) at different angles and internally calculates the gloss from those readings. It gives you a reading, as if you're taking the temperature. It fits in your hand and resembles an old elementary school pencil sharpener. Paint and metal coating manufacturers use it industrially to test the gloss of their coatings. I have tested mine on baseball cards. Went through a stack of Topps and OPC once.

Most people can fairly accurately compare gloss and opacity of cards as far as identifying fakes go. One practicality of these tools is, in case of court or other dispute, they would give you black and white numerical results that can be double checked. Their readings aren't influenced by appraisal value, wishful thinking team affiliation or Miley Cyrus's twerking. Well, not much anyway.

But don't fret, I'll bring my glossmeter to the next National and rent it out by the quarter hour. For fun and entertainment. Duly note I am not liable if you try to measure the gloss of your eyeball. My lawyer says most judges in Ohio would say someone so stupid deserves to go blind in one eye. At they very least, first test it out on your dog or the neighbor's kid.

Hell, as long as you pay the $15 rental fee and return it in working order, I don't care what you do with it. Use it for as a screwdriver for all I care.

Actually, the light meter works better as a screw driver. The glossmeter is more of a paperweight/conversation piece.