For Sale Artifically Aged Reprints $5.00 Makes Great Gifts See Pics

[rarerookies]

Hey guys. My name is Derek. I am new on here but not to the collecting side as I have been a sports card collector for over 20 years. I am just now finding time to be able to check out these forums and what all they have to offer.

I have some artificially aged cards for sale for $5.00 bucks each shipped

Payment by Paypal, Money Orders or check..

If you have any questions or wish to purchase, please email me at
goudeyruths@gmail.com or Private Message me.

Check out my photobucket items
http://s1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/goudeyruths/Everything%20For%20Sale%20or%20Trade/Artificially%20Aged%20Reprints/

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/goudeyruths/Reprints%20For%20Sale/RuthLot1.jpg

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/goudeyruths/Reprints%20For%20Sale/3groupcardpic2.jpg

[Kawika]

This is a joke, right?

[Chris Counts]

I don't think this is a joke. He's been trying to sell them for a week in another section of the BST. Some board members cringed (like myself) while others defended his right to sell his junk here ...

[vintagecpa]

Actually there is plenty of money to be made buying these cards. Simply buy a few of these cards and list them on eBay. Use some of the following phrases: 1. Grampa's attic, 2. Selling as reprint, but looks real to me; 3. Doesn't say reprint anywhere on card; 4. I'm not a professional grader; 5. I don't have time to send to a professional grader. From what I see, people generally bid far more than $5 on these type of listings.

[buymycards]

These aren't 20's to 40's cards. If you are going to sell this crap at least put it in the correct area of the BST.

[margoaepi]

Besides the fact that this is disgusting . . . who would want an "artificially aged" Jordan?

[Ladder7]

Please, surf elsewhere.

[rarerookies]

What's the angst? Why the sore feelings towards these cards?

I personally like these cards. And have no problem offering them for sale to people who want them. Yeah authentic is always better but like a lot of things no one can afford authentic. Rolex's, Purses, Sunglasses, generic drugs, whatever the cheap alternative to the real thing. There's always the people who can drive BMW's and those who buy Camry's.

Even though they bear no real value of any sort there is some pleasure in collecting cards that are the greatest sports cards ever. No I will never own a real Mantle 52 rookie but I own a reprint and I look at it and think what it must be like to own such a card. I look at these and appreciate the birth of modern trading cards.

derek
:cool:

[rarerookies]

Yes I am sure people take advantage of unsuspecting buyers of cards. I totally agree with that. I can go to bed each night knowing that I have disclosed that these cards were reprints. Once its outta my hands its outta my hands. With some cold medicine, brake fluid and a few other ingredients you can make meth. Why don't you start a campaign to ban brake fluid and cold medicine? Products can used for good things or bad. Gun's for defending homes or for murderers, cold medicine for people with allergies or making meth and reprints for people who appreciate trading cards and one's that are used to rip people off.

Its a two sided coin.



Actually there is plenty of money to be made buying these cards. Simply buy a few of these cards and list them on eBay. Use some of the following phrases: 1. Grampa's attic, 2. Selling as reprint, but looks real to me; 3. Doesn't say reprint anywhere on card; 4. I'm not a professional grader; 5. I don't have time to send to a professional grader. From what I see, people generally bid far more than $5 on these type of listings.

[Batter67up]

If the cards don't say reprint on them then there is a good chance they will be sold as originals by a fraudulent person. Sell reprints with them stamped as reprint or get them out of our hobby!

[rarerookies]

Just if they are reprints they should be stamped as reprints.

Not anything like never buy anything you are not familiar with? Stay away from Grandpa's Attic sellers?

Not to say that the cards weren't made to deceive a person but an educated person in the hobby would be able to quickly identify the real from the fake. Just like buying Rolex's, if you don't know what to look for you'll get burned on the purchase.

I don't spend "real" money on something that I am uneducated on. Whether its mutual funds, cars, watches, pens, or baseball cards. If I can't explain basic ins and outs of the product I am purchasing including if there are copies floating around then I don't need to make the purchase.

I've got burned buying a fraudulent card. $800 bucks. From a guy who got it from his dad and posted it on Craigslist because he needed the money real bad.

Do you know what? I have never been burned again on cards.

Yeah it sucks that people have to ruin the hobby buy screwing people over. There's a special place you know where for them.

I guess the best way to say it. You know how you can go into an art store and buy a reprint of the mona lisa. You hang it up on the wall and appreciate the creativity and the shear shock and aww of it. Same thing with a 1933 goudey ruth reprint

[rarerookies]

This is where you get the "education and not buying from reputable sellers" lightbulb


Actually there is plenty of money to be made buying these cards. Simply buy a few of these cards and list them on eBay. Use some of the following phrases: 1. Grampa's attic, 2. Selling as reprint, but looks real to me; 3. Doesn't say reprint anywhere on card; 4. I'm not a professional grader; 5. I don't have time to send to a professional grader. From what I see, people generally bid far more than $5 on these type of listings.

[rarerookies]

wondering why you think that way

Besides the fact that this is disgusting . . . who would want an "artificially aged" Jordan?

[rarerookies]

Have you ever bought a pair of knockoff sunglasses or a Fucci purse for your wife?

This is a joke, right?

[Matthew H]

Above all this is the wrong place to advertise your cards; no one will buy them here.

[Kawika]

Have you ever bought a pair of knockoff sunglasses or a Fucci purse for your wife?
No. I don't bother buying crap.

[rarerookies]

I don't consider my stuff crap. How many people do you know that can make a card got from new to old in 3 days?

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/goudeyruths/wagner.jpg

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/goudeyruths/WagnerTobacco1909v1.jpg


No. I don't bother buying crap.

[BlueDevil89]

Activity such as this is a scourge to the hobby. I vote for a lifetime ban from the forum for engaging in such an unethical and deceptive practice.

All those in favor...

[Robextend]

My main fear is that these cards will end up in the hands of someone that will try and deceive and eventually rip off a buyer. Of course you have a right to sell these cards, however you are contributing to one of the big problems in this hobby. On this board your actions won't be received very well.

[AndyG09]

This is flat out wrong. I am all for the banishment!

[rarerookies]

I think Nazi's and the Communist's did similar things to beliefs that they didn't like too. Screw the Bill of Rights. Just a piece of paper when people disagree. If you disagree with this please tell me you disagree with all the pirated music, bootlegged movies, knock off purses and Folex watches.
:D

[rarerookies]

We will get rid of all the religions, democracy, and capitalist ideas that plague our society forever!!!


http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/goudeyruths/nazi-book-burning.jpg

[quinnsryche]

Why not just stamp them "reprint" and avoid all the contention? I think you wouldn't have so much venom spit at you if you just did that. What would be the harm in an embossed stamp on the back that says what it is? Those in the hobby are the only police in the hobby, so you have to see why some are so concerned. You must realize by doing this you create a problem that doesn't need to be. Topps issues reprints all the time and no one here bats an eyelash. That's because they are clearly marked as reprints and it's all done above board. I think it's the deceptive way this process is done that makes it so offensive to most on this site. Just some insights, take them or leave them. Yes this is America, you have every right to do what you do, but it doesn't make it moral.

[BlueDevil89]

rarerookies posted - "If you disagree with this please tell me you disagree with all the pirated music, bootlegged movies, knock off purses and Folex watches."

Yes, I disagree with all forms of pirated and counterfeited products. I do not support such activities as they violate trademark, patent, copyright laws, etc., and represent a form of theft.

As for your decision to take reprints and age them to look like originals, this is a form of fraud aimed at deceiving unsuspecting consumers. Just because you are making and selling the counterfeits as reprints for only $5 each, you think that you are not at fault - but you are! You know full well that the majority of individuals interested in your service are con artists who will attempt to pass off the fakes as originals for much higher prices. You are profiting from a service that supports the counterfeit card market. (Consider - Aren't the guys who produce meth in their home labs just as guilty as the dealers who sell / distribute the illegal drugs to addicts and children?)

It's disturbing that you would compare your unethical and immoral practice to the pursuit of freedom of "religions, democracy, and capitalist ideas". You truly have a warped sense of justice, and you apparently lack the basic understanding of the concept of what is right and wrong.

I hope that you will give further consideration to this matter and recognize that you are engaging in a dishonest actitivity that promotes fraud. If your artificial aging business were to actually take off and increase in volume, you could end up being prosecuted by authorities for conspiracy as part of a counterfeit memorabilia ring. Please discontinue your promotion of this dishonorable pursuit and find a hobby that is more worthy of your time and effort.

[jb217676]

I don't consider my stuff crap. How many people do you know that can make a card got from new to old in 3 days?

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/goudeyruths/wagner.jpg

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/goudeyruths/WagnerTobacco1909v1.jpg

During the "aging" process the copyright line has gone missing on the back of the Wagner. If you did that you should be ashamed of yourself. These cards will eventually trickle down into the hands of somebody who thinks they are real. If you have any self respect you should burn these cards and issue an apology to these long time collectors on this forum for even showing these. One of the biggest problems in this hobby is making sure the card you buy is authentic and unaltered and these cards are a slap in the face to all of the collectors here and abroad. You sacrificed your integrity for the 1 or 2 dollars you were hoping to get for each of these cards. Stuff like this won't fly here, and I can't believe you had the guts to try and sell these here. This isn't Craigslist or Ebay, this is Net54 and you're not welcome if you try to use this site to get your fake cards out into the world. Happy Thanksgiving!
Jeff

[vintagecpa]

Using the words meth and nazi's to justify your business? Unbelievable. The mere fact that whole reprint is evenly aged except for the copyright which is completely removed speaks volumes towards your target audience and your business ethics. You should be ashamed of yourself and should feel guilty for the role you have played in all the dishonest transactions these cards have been involved in on Ebay since you started your business, even if you weren't directly involved.

[Luke]

And I'm all for banning this guy, although I doubt that will stop him from trying to make a buck at other people's expenses.

[Matthew H]

I don't consider my stuff crap. How many people do you know that can make a card got from new to old in 3 days?


I consider your stuff crap. This garbage is a dime a dozen on eBay and Craigslist. Here, it is considered a joke. It doesn't take artistic talent to erase "reprint", dip a card and bake it. It just takes an unethical a**hole.

I agree, ban.

[Chris Counts]

Politics, religion and fakes ... has there ever been a better case for banning someone?

[doug.goodman]

I am not in favor of banning him, I am in favor of not responding to his posts, so that they drop quickly off the front page, and we don't have to be bothered by him.

And, I hope nobody responds to this post so that it will drop quickly off the front page, as well.

I'm confident that 100% of the real collectors who read these forums have the exact same initial thoughts on this guy and his "products". Arguing with him does nothing except keep him in the headlines.

Best regards,
Doug

[Griffins]

I'm in favor of banning listings for reprints.
I'm betting that will have the added benefit of effectively banning the OP.

[sbfinley]

And Leon thought this would be a calm Thanksgiving.

[Kawika]

Rarerookies: I don't have any problem with reprints in the hobby - they have their place. Charles Mandel produces a line of Helmar Brewing cards that have an "artificially aged" look which I rather like - I have even picked up a few. However, his cards are modern creations - they are not reprints which can be mistaken for a vintage issue. You paid enough rope to hang yourself by showing the Wagner back. How convenient that the copyright data didn't survive the aging process! "Once its outta my hands its outta my hands." 'Nuf ced about your ethics.
The Nazi book burning photo was a nice touch. I get it. We're fascist totalitarians because we object to your abetting fraudsters with your doctored reprints. (As a Jew maybe I should feel offended but I'm only saddened by your less-than-brilliant intellect). Actually we are merely collectors who try to enjoy a hobby despite the fact that it is ridden with every sort of scumbaggery already. You are part of the problem, dude. I don't think anyone is serious about banning you - the few guys who have been banned so far were majorly egregious douches and you are just a putz - but I do feel that you are not going to fit in with a lot of folks here.

[rarerookies]

These cards have been around long before I got into the hobby of selling reprints and they will be around long after I am gone. I bought these cards from people selling them on Ebay.

I still say its more of an uneducated buyer issue than a moral argument. If you are going to invest in something you better know about it before you invest. If not then these cards could possibly be used in fraudulent activity.

Education of buyers not demise of capitalism


Using the words meth and nazi's to justify your business? Unbelievable. The mere fact that whole reprint is evenly aged except for the copyright which is completely removed speaks volumes towards your target audience and your business ethics. You should be ashamed of yourself and should feel guilty for the role you have played in all the dishonest transactions these cards have been involved in on Ebay since you started your business, even if you weren't directly involved.

[rarerookies]

I actually enjoyed this conversation. Its moved on from me trying to sell reprints to an ethical and moral debate. I didn't know that there was such an anti-reprint establishment among serious collectors. I thought of these more as novelty products. Replica rolex's, coach purses etc.

I enjoyed the conversation with you guys and will respect the wishes and not post anymore reprints for sale on this site.

I still believe an educated buyer wouldn't fall for a reprint but an uneducated buyer might. But these are the same people who respond to Nigerian Chain letters, buy lottery tickets and believe every too good to be true thing that pops up in there lives.





I am not in favor of banning him, I am in favor of not responding to his posts, so that they drop quickly off the front page, and we don't have to be bothered by him.

And, I hope nobody responds to this post so that it will drop quickly off the front page, as well.

I'm confident that 100% of the real collectors who read these forums have the exact same initial thoughts on this guy and his "products". Arguing with him does nothing except keep him in the headlines.

Best regards,
Doug

[sbfinley]

I still believe an educated buyer wouldn't fall for a reprint but an uneducated buyer might. But these are the same people who respond to Nigerian Chain letters, buy lottery tickets and believe every too good to be true thing that pops up in there lives.

We were all new to this hobby and uneducated at some point. An influx of new people of all ages joining this hobby is the only thing that can sustain it's growth. Saying that it is fine if they get taken by a scam artist because they "should know better" is asinine. I could care less if you want to sell these fakes (in the right section), but your responses to the legitimate concerns of fellow hobbyist should be handled with a bit less crass.

[rarerookies]

My crass to the concerns of board members fell right in line of those responses I received after the initial post.

"This is a joke, right?"

"Some board members cringed (like myself) while others defended his right to sell his junk here ..."

"If you are going to sell this crap"

"Besides the fact that this is disgusting"

I was put in a position where I felt the need to defend my post. The Nazi and socialism references were maybe a bit extreme but I had to defend the right to express my civil liberties.

A few things you should know while living in a free democracy just in case you are new to it.
1. If its on TV: Turn the channel
2. If you don't like the laws: Go Vote
3. If you don't like the product: Don't Buy It


I'll end with a quote from one of my favorite political activists.

You measure a democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
-Abbie Hoffman-


We were all new to this hobby and uneducated at some point. An influx of new people of all ages joining this hobby is the only thing that can sustain it's growth. Saying that it is fine if they get taken by a scam artist because they "should know better" is asinine. I could care less if you want to sell these fakes (in the right section), but your responses to the legitimate concerns of fellow hobbyist should be handled with a bit less crass.

[rarerookies]

If I understand your screen name to represent what you do for a living I assume you are a CPA. Your profession over the last 10 years have been plagued by immoral acts that did far worse to the nation than a few reprint baseball cards. Hmm... ENRON!!

CPA's do tax write-offs here, have "business lunches" and list attic space as a home office.

It's hard to believe someone who's associates basically dove us into a recession by inflating companies net worth's, cooking books and destroying trust in financial institutions would have such a problem with a few reprints.

Hows your quarterly's looking?



Using the words meth and nazi's to justify your business? Unbelievable. The mere fact that whole reprint is evenly aged except for the copyright which is completely removed speaks volumes towards your target audience and your business ethics. You should be ashamed of yourself and should feel guilty for the role you have played in all the dishonest transactions these cards have been involved in on Ebay since you started your business, even if you weren't directly involved.

[bigtrain]

Prior to the unwarranted, idiotic attack on another member's legitimate and honorable profession, I was on the fence as to whether a ban or suspension as suggested by others would be appropriate. I was unreasonably optimistic that the poster could be shown the error of his ways. Obviously, that is not going to happen. The OP is morally bankrupt and has no clue as to the true meaning of the civil liberties he claims to embrace.

[Matthew H]

How much for the Ruth? :D

[vintagecpa]

LOL. I never thought my professional choice would get ripped on a baseball card forum. For the record, I am a CPA. I think it would be a stretch to blame the latest recession on CPA's (or Enron). I don't know a single CPA that sold a sub-prime mortgage. Yes, when I prepare peoples taxes, there is a certain amount of "writing off" that occurs. But there is this minor detail called the tax code that guides us as to what is legal and not legal. Most everything is in black and white. A very similar code exists with copyright laws. But I'm sure your not interested in hearing about those laws.

[rarerookies]

So would you say "writing off business lunches or supplies" is governed by black and white or falls under the gray area and can be interpreted in different ways as taking legal copyrighted reprints and altering them to appear aged?

LOL. I never thought my professional choice would get ripped on a baseball card forum. For the record, I am a CPA. I think it would be a stretch to blame the latest recession on CPA's (or Enron). I don't know a single CPA that sold a sub-prime mortgage. Yes, when I prepare peoples taxes, there is a certain amount of "writing off" that occurs. But there is this minor detail called the tax code that guides us as to what is legal and not legal. Most everything is in black and white. A very similar code exists with copyright laws. But I'm sure your not interested in hearing about those laws.

[rarerookies]

lol

How much for the Ruth? :D

[vintagecpa]

I'm afraid your just too unknowledgeable of the subject to have an intelligent conversation. However, I will answer your question simply for the entertainment value. If you are a business, you are allowed to "write off" 50% of meals and entertainment expenses. You obviously need to provide receipts and have some type of record that the expense is business-related (in the event of an audit). Business supplies can be deducted 100%.

In your case, for your business, you would be able to deduct (write-off) the cost of the legitimate reprint cards and aging chemicals (aka business supplies). If you go to lunch with you reprint card salesperson, you get to deduct 50% of that meal as long as you were discussing business. Not much of a gray area.

[rarerookies]

You must work for H&R block and don't understand the complexity of today's tax laws and the room built in for interpretation in those laws by lawmakers.




I'm afraid your just too unknowledgeable of the subject to have an intelligent conversation. However, I will answer your question simply for the entertainment value. If you are a business, you are allowed to "write off" 50% of meals and entertainment expenses. You obviously need to provide receipts and have some type of record that the expense is business-related (in the event of an audit). Business supplies can be deducted 100%.

In your case, for your business, you would be able to deduct (write-off) the cost of the legitimate reprint cards and aging chemicals (aka business supplies). If you go to lunch with you reprint card salesperson, you get to deduct 50% of that meal as long as you were discussing business. Not much of a gray area.

[vintagecpa]

This will be my last post regarding this hopeless conversation. I assume your last post is some sort of personal attack on my knowledge or skills. I'm afraid there are very few CPA's working at retail tax outfits like H&R Block. Most CPA's have their own practice (myself) or work for a larger CPA or private firm. However, I am somewhat familiar with the training and software H&R Block uses. If you walk into your nearest H&R Block and ask the same questions you ask me, you should get very similar answers.

Judging by how vehemently you are defending yourself, I suspect you don't see yourself doing anything wrong. At the very least, if you are going to continue with your current business (and I suspect you will), I would recommend not removing the copyright wording during your aging process. It is the one area that could potentially get you in trouble. Have a Happy Black Friday.

[rarerookies]

Thank you for debating on the subject. I was curious to what I would do while waiting for my wife to drag me out to the sales at 3am.

Have a Happy Black Friday as well.


This will be my last post regarding this hopeless conversation. I assume your last post is some sort of personal attack on my knowledge or skills. I'm afraid there are very few CPA's working at retail tax outfits like H&R Block. Most CPA's have their own practice (myself) or work for a larger CPA or private firm. However, I am somewhat familiar with the training and software H&R Block uses. If you walk into your nearest H&R Block and ask the same questions you ask me, you should get very similar answers.

Judging by how vehemently you are defending yourself, I suspect you don't see yourself doing anything wrong. At the very least, if you are going to continue with your current business (and I suspect you will), I would recommend not removing the copyright wording during your aging process. It is the one area that could potentially get you in trouble. Have a Happy Black Friday.

[sox1903wschamp]

I didn't know that there was such an anti-reprint establishment among serious collectors.

Always do your homework.

[buymycards]

I think one of the reasons that many of us don't like these reprints is that we were burned by them when we first started collecting. It might not have been a lot of money but it still stings. Think about wives wanting to buy their husbands a Xmas gift, or parents buying a gift for their children. They probably won't do the necessary research and they may end up buying some of this stuff. Add in kids buying for their own collections, and other collectors who are just getting into cards and the potential for problems increases.

It is the people on ebay who list these as real cards and put them in an auction format that seem to cause the most problems. At least you are selling them as reprints, but they should also be clearly marked as reprints. Maybe buy yourself a red rubber "reprint" stamp and stamp the cards.

Rick

[rarerookies]

I've been burned too. Both on a Rolex and some Mantle cards. Well the Rolex was actually my dumb fault. You see I wire transferred the money out of country (this was like 15 years ago) and never heard from or received the watch.

The '56 mantle was my fault. I was an uneducated buyer and got took for $400 bucks. Does it piss me off and make me wanna go burn the SOB's house down. Well maybe. Do I want to start an all out witch hunt and ban everyone selling reprints because of a select few illegitimate people. No

Its like the parents of kids who want to ban guns because the parent left a loaded gun in the house and didn't explain the totality of a bullet through the body. Its not the gun who killed the person its the person that pulled the trigger.

Just like its not the card that took money from you, it was the person you bought it from



I think one of the reasons that many of us don't like these reprints is that we were burned by them when we first started collecting. It might not have been a lot of money but it still stings. Think about wives wanting to buy their husbands a Xmas gift, or parents buying a gift for their children. They probably won't do the necessary research and they may end up buying some of this stuff. Add in kids buying for their own collections, and other collectors who are just getting into cards and the potential for problems increases.

It is the people on ebay who list these as real cards and put them in an auction format that seem to cause the most problems. At least you are selling them as reprints, but they should also be clearly marked as reprints. Maybe buy yourself a red rubber "reprint" stamp and stamp the cards.

Rick

[rhettyeakley]

Funny, I was wondering to myself today what the cost of buying someones sense of morality would be...apparently it's $5.:D

Good luck with your business model but these are such terrible looking "aged reprints" that I don't think they will be fooling too many people out there-probably a bummer for you. Honestly, I'm not really sure what you are getting out of all this as I don't see it being worth ANYONES time and effort to make these things for the big $5 (shipped) payday that awaits you. How can you attack someone elses profession in any way when you are willing to do this for a mere $5 (shipped)?

[ChiefBenderForever]

What is wrong with a Camry ?

[barrysloate]

Yikes- I didn't know that this thread was going on until just now...and come to think of it it's a good thing.

This idiot should be banned for any number of reasons, among them posting pictures of Nazis (or whatever), bringing up politics and religion, selling worthless reprints, and all that without posting his name on the board. You can't do this anonymously- that's a board rule.

And the fact that you are clueless about just about everything may not break any rules, but you need to go. Have you ever made a post on this board other than this thread? You need to put these little gems on craigslist, not here.

[rarerookies]

lol

What is wrong with a Camry ?

[rarerookies]

I was stating a relevant point to the topic at hand. We left on good terms


Funny, I was wondering to myself today what the cost of buying someones sense of morality would be...apparently it's $5.:D

Good luck with your business model but these are such terrible looking "aged reprints" that I don't think they will be fooling too many people out there-probably a bummer for you. Honestly, I'm not really sure what you are getting out of all this as I don't see it being worth ANYONES time and effort to make these things for the big $5 (shipped) payday that awaits you. How can you attack someone elses profession in any way when you are willing to do this for a mere $5 (shipped)?

[rarerookies]

"Have you ever made a post on this board other than this thread?"

I think the fact that this has turned into a refreshing discussion instead of the original advertisement it was is a neat thing. I believe I have respected the opinions on here about reprint cards and haven't posted anymore reprints for sale on this site. You guys were right, i have not made many sales on here. But I have enjoyed the conversation it has become. You only stay away from politics and religion with family.




Yikes- I didn't know that this thread was going on until just now...and come to think of it it's a good thing.

This idiot should be banned for any number of reasons, among them posting pictures of Nazis (or whatever), bringing up politics and religion, selling worthless reprints, and all that without posting his name on the board. You can't do this anonymously- that's a board rule.

And the fact that you are clueless about just about everything may not break any rules, but you need to go. Have you ever made a post on this board other than this thread? You need to put these little gems on craigslist, not here.

[Chris Counts]

A refreshing discussion? It's hard to look away when you see a train wreck ...

[Karl Mattson]

You only stay away from politics and religion with family.

...and forums that expressly state in their rules "Politics and religion are not permitted".

Those rules also state "You may remain anonymous as long your post is not controversial or confrontational" - I'm thinkin' that boat has pretty well sailed?

[esehombre]

Not to excuse some of the nauseating posts by the OP but he did identify himself in his first post very clearly.

[rarerookies]

Whats this with identifying myself? is there something i didnt complete?


Not to excuse some of the nauseating posts by the OP but he did identify himself in his first post very clearly.

[rarerookies]

Whats this with identifying myself? is there something i didnt complete?


...and forums that expressly state in their rules "Politics and religion are not permitted".

Those rules also state "You may remain anonymous as long your post is not controversial or confrontational" - I'm thinkin' that boat has pretty well sailed?

[prewarsports]

As a Tax Attorney and not a CPA, I will tell you that you are wrong when you talk about all the Gray Area. The Law is very clear, it is how a person with an agenda (like sheltering as much money as possible or perhaps violating copyright law to make a $5 windfall) can interpret the Law that makes it gray. You can get into all sorts of debates about "What constitutes Entertainment Expenses" and "Meals" if you want to but have those discussions with a certified Tax Lawyer, maybe even one teaches the subject at a Law School, and I promise you the gray fades to nice shades of dark black and bright white. Just because you dont get audited by the IRS and get put in a position where you have to try and defend your practices does not mean the practice is condoned or right.

Just thought I would chime in as someone who knows a thing or two about Tax Law, at least more than the average H&R block worker or maybe an expert without a ton of tact.

Rhys Yeakley
Tax Lawyer
Former IRS Worker
Repro Card Hater

[barrysloate]

Derek- and I see you did put your first name out there- one of the most outrageous things anyone can do is trivialize the holocaust. When you compare the people on this board asking you not to sell reprints, to Nazi bookburning, you show an absolute lack of understanding history. Why don't you read a book or two about World War II and the holocaust before ever making such a horrific comparison again.

And on a lesser note, when a baseball card has the word "reprint" on the back, never ever remove it. You know that someone down the food chain is going to get burned for paying a lot of money for it because he thinks it may be real.

[Tom S.]

rarerookies,

I know someone who is willing to buy your cards; money is no object to him.

Coincidentally, he had a similar hobby as yours - he took "reprints" of U.S. currency and artificially aged each piece to give it that well-worn look that you strive for with your items.

The only thing he asks is if you can hold the cards for him until he makes parole in February.

LMK if you are interested...

[Peter_Spaeth]

I thought it was message board received wisdom that when a thread degenerates into Nazi references, it's time for it to go.

[Karl Mattson]

Not to excuse some of the nauseating posts by the OP but he did identify himself in his first post very clearly.

My apologies if I missed something, but I only saw a first name - Leon has said, and I quote, you "need to put your full name on the board" when your posts are "controversial or confrontational".

[barrysloate]

You're correct Karl...but my guess is Derek will not continue posting here.

[rhettyeakley]

see Godwin's Law. This one sure didn't take too long!

[rarerookies]

Wow I figured that you guys were done. ,lol. I'd like to make the statement about whoever thought I brought up the holocaust. Seriously how does murder relate to the topic at hand? I didn't bring up the holocaust I brought up what the nazi's did during there time of control like socialism in ussr or china. Restrict information and tell the people what they can and can't do.

Some of you guys gave those very same views that ignited socialism.
Ban everything that we don't agree with. Next thing i'll hear is you guys are in favor over socialized healthcare.

[Kawika]

Leon: Wasn't there a forum rule regarding the minimum IQ required for posting on Net54?

[Jim VB]

Leon: Wasn't there a forum rule regarding the minimum IQ required for posting on Net54?

I'm pretty sure you are correct, but when Bruce "left" the average IQ on both the "active" and "suspended" lists went way up, so we may have some wiggle room here.

[rarerookies]

I am the one giving historical information and providing facts for my opinions You are the one making slanderous remarks. So if IQ # is the status quo for this board, then maybe you should refrain from posting remarks.

Leon: Wasn't there a forum rule regarding the minimum IQ required for posting on Net54?

[barrysloate]

Derek- insults aside, your insight into what is really going on in this country, based on your very misdirected posts, is truly alarming. Why don't you try reading a few books- I know that is a terribly elitist concept- before you start preaching to educated board members about socialism. Thank you.

[Kawika]

I am the one giving historical information and providing facts for my opinions You are the one making slanderous remarks. So if IQ # is the status quo for this board, then maybe you should refrain from posting remarks.
Derek: When Sarah Palin is President in a couple of years the American Khmer Rouge will round up guys like me, Jim and Barry and shoot us. No worries.

[Leon]

So I drove to Houston and back yesterday, to see family. It was 9 hours on the road and we had a good time.
I didn't even see this thread until just now. For the record the original poster registered with the name "Derek Masters" so I will assume that is who he is. I am a bit on the fence about what to do with the whole scenario. I don't think banning is usually a good solution.

Derek- we don't talk about politics, religion or anyone's family members on this board. The last one will get anyone banned quicker than anything else. I am against these fakes because, as most have alluded to, eventually they will end up with someone buying the card for their spouse and getting burned, or something like that. Now, if they clearly say "reprint" on them, then I don't have as much of a problem. Also, we have a ton of Jewish members on the board (as well as all other religions and denominations too) so any trivializing of the Holocaust is not going to be well received. Lets keep it about cards and there won't need to be moderating intervention. best regards

[barrysloate]

David- when Sarah Palin becomes president I will be moving to the Belgian Congo, so they won't be able to find me.

[rarerookies]

way to catch up on the thread barry!!

attaboy. keep on with those insights


Derek- insults aside, your insight into what is really going on in this country, based on your very misdirected posts, is truly alarming. Why don't you try reading a few books- I know that is a terribly elitist concept- before you start preaching to educated board members about socialism. Thank you.

[barrysloate]

Well, as I suspected we are going to get nowhere. So good luck selling your reprints.

[Matthew H]

Bump. As the OP said, "great gift idea" :rolleyes:

[jb217676]

I don't know if anyone else is in agreement with me, but I think the OP is simply a troll. I believe his only purpose is to stir the pot and get everyone here fired up. Who else but a troll would start his membership here by alienating everyone from the beginning. This site is home to many hobby heavyweights and to insult these people like he does strikes me as confusing, unless he's a troll!

[calvindog]

Awesome thread. Derek, I could care less one way or another about your reprints but you've spent an awful amount of time in order to make $5. Are things that slow?

[AndyG09]

I think the OP might be from Chicago and once owned a nice back collection for about a month before going into the fraud print business.

[Rob D.]

Seriously, if you're not in favor of either the selling of reprints here or the thoughts and messages of the OP, the best thing you can do it ignore this thread, stop bumping it and let it -- and the OP -- fall off the board.

[Woundedduck]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd guess most people wouldn't have as big a problem with these if the original reprint writing was left on during the aging process. I'd bet most here don't have as big a problem with reprints that are clearly marked. The biggest issue here, I believe, is that these appear created to deceive. Even if the OP is listing them as reprints and selling as such, others won't.

I've bought t206 reprints on this site and no one ever attacked that seller. However, the cards were all clearly marked as reprints. The OP clearly has been stirring the pot in his defense of these cards whether intentional or not.


Personally I have a project that I'd like to do and can't afford and don't want to use originals for it and these reprints would work nicely. I was at a sportsbar where I noticed the tables had cards laminated in some way into the surface. The cards used were like 1994 UD or something, but I thought it might be cool to do something similar witha coffee table and vintage reprints. The cost for originals would be too much and I wouldn't want to destroy them in a table. That's why I previously expressed interest in the cards.

[alanu]

I smell Peter Chao or whatever his name was. Seems to be just egging everyone on.

[Jim VB]

I smell Peter Chao or whatever his name was. Seems to be just egging everyone on.



Chao never owned any cards this nice!

[Peter_Spaeth]

This site is home to many hobby heavyweights

It is?:confused::confused:

[rarerookies]

Hey Leon.

You may remove my membership from your Forum. Thank you guys for some good discussions. Happy collecting

derek

[rarerookies]

"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. "
— Hunter S. Thompson

[Kawika]

"Everybody is a horse's ass except for me and Ed Smith."
— Albert M. Yost

[4815162342]

I think the OP might be from Chicago and once owned a nice back collection for about a month before going into the fraud print business.

LOL I had (almost) forgotten all about that guy!

[brickyardkennedy]

I might've been interested in an aged Lard Jusberg rookie repro.

[Chris Counts]

I actually watched Peter Chao buy a '63 Topps Mantle at card show, so I know he owned at least one nice card. Plus, from what I recall, all Peter did was ask a lot of annoying questions. This guy thinks he knows all the answers, which in my mind is far more irritating ...

As for selling reprints here, it seems to me like the "Everything Else" category is most appropriate place to sell these things. I still don't like them, but I agree they would make nice wall paper or a laminated counter top to spill beer on ...

[rarerookies]

you guys are fun to talk to. with your fact-less opinions on things. socialism is the way to go huh. if you dont like it then opinions have to go. Why dont while you guys are wiping your ass with the constitution you go ahead and wipe you ass with the bill of rights.

[Jim VB]

you guys are fun to talk to. with your fact-less opinions on things. socialism is the way to go huh. if you dont like it then opinions have to go. Why dont while you guys are wiping your ass with the constitution you go ahead and wipe you ass with the bill of rights.


It's NOT your opinions we dislike. It's the fact that you have created something that has the potential to do harm to the hobby we love.

[quinnsryche]

I think this thread has gotten a bit out of hand. I don't think anyone ever said you CAN'T sell reprints, it certainly is not illegal. I believe the overwhelming opinion on this board is that they are harmful when not marked properly as such and altered to look as if they are "vintage". Obviously, as in life, many have opinions, some stronger than others. In my opinion, it just seems that this sort of product does not go over very well here. I am sure you can see how producing such cards could be construed by some as dangerous and deceitful, can't you? I certainly would leave religion and politics out of any argument here, that will get you absolutely nowhere.

[barrysloate]

It's NOT your opinions we dislike. It's the fact that you have created something that has the potential to do harm to the hobby we love.

His opinions aren't so hot either. Yes, and the cards are bad too. And these are his first posts on the board. Nothing good has come out of this thread.

[ChiefBenderForever]

I can understand how someone can get burned buying a fake card but a fake rolex ?

[dstudeba]

So what exactly is your defense for selling the below card in one of your storefronts?

http://www.atomicmall.com/seller.php?id=62383

http://www.atomicmall.com/cpic/28/62383-1289865483.jpg

[Matthew H]

Horrible stuff here.

[Jim VB]

So what exactly is your defense for selling the below card in one of your storefronts?

http://www.atomicmall.com/seller.php?id=62383

http://www.atomicmall.com/cpic/28/62383-1289865483.jpg



Nicely played. Game. Set. And Match.

We have moved from phony cards to phony cards in phony slabs.

[Vol]

Nicely played. Game. Set. And Match.


+1.

[Leon]

For various reasons I made a management decision and moved this to the front page for all to see. Many, many members don't look at the place that it was on the BST side. I will also reiterate my position on banning and censoring. I am very much against it unless there is something extraordinary that leads to that decision....or multiple infractions etc.... I truly believe that we can learn a lot from these types of threads. Happy collecting!!

[barrysloate]

How about telling people to wipe their ass with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights? Does that qualify as crossing the line?

[Leon]

How about telling people to wipe their ass with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights? Does that qualify as crossing the line?

Yes it does....and quite honestly Barry, if you ran the board it would have been shut down 3578 times now because of this kind of stuff. As I told you earlier this guy is on a short leash...but it's also important to let people stick their feet in their mouths too (imo)......I don't think we should help save people from themselves. I am sure others will disagree, and some will agree, but this has always been my MO.....regards

btw, my 14 yr old has heard the word "ass" many times.....it's not in the top 10 of "dirty words" that can't be said on the board....and also, nothing personal here. You are certainly one of my favorite people in the hobby and I consider you beyond a "hobby" friend...

[prewarsports]

Barry

Parchment is not very absorbant from what I hear anyways, but repro Baseball Cards are. Hopefully there is nothing that chaffe's in his "artificially aging" chemicals!

Rhys

[FUBAR]

Can't believe i missed all this fun. The topic threw me off and i didn't click... but i noticed it was over 100 so i thought something must be going on.

Derek, you made a statement in one of your posts i think sums it all up.

"I was an uneducated buyer and got took for $400 bucks"

I am amazed the grammar police here didn't arrest you!

As for wiping my ass with the constitution, id rather use your cards!

[barrysloate]

Hey Leon- nothing personal taken. I was just stirring the pot a little. I don't like this guy.:mad:

[HRBAKER]

btw, my 14 yr old has heard the word "ass" many times.....it's not in the top 10 of "dirty words" that can't be said on the board....

It didn't make George Carlin's list so no foul. I was having an Abbie Hoffman flashback when he started talking about cleaning with the Constitution.

[barrysloate]

Jeff- I once drove Abbie Hoffman from Long Island to Manhattan...now he was an ass. Didn't even say thank you for the ride. True story.

[ChiefBenderForever]

Jeff- I once drove Abbie Hoffman from Long Island to Manhattan...now he was an ass. Didn't even say thank you for the ride. True story.

He was probably so tripped out on lsd that he thought he was on a spaceship and you were LBJ.

[HRBAKER]

Jeff- I once drove Abbie Hoffman from Long Island to Manhattan...now he was an ass. Didn't even say thank you for the ride. True story.

Barry,

Now that is a "Brush With Greatness." Never met him but I can see it. That must have been some car ride!

[autograf]

So Barry's NOT LBJ?

[barrysloate]

He was a jerk. He was speaking at a college and needed a ride afterwards into the city. I was heading back to Brooklyn so I offered. He was surly and rude the whole ride. When I got to the toll booth of the Queens-Midtown Tunnel, there were cops milling about and I felt like handing him over. When we got to his street he slammed the car door and left without saying a word. There was another passenger in the back seat who was getting on his nerves so that probably precipitated it. He had issues.

[tbob]

I'm pretty sure you are correct, but when Bruce "left" the average IQ on both the "active" and "suspended" lists went way up, so we may have some wiggle room here.


This was my smile of the week. :D

[FrankWakefield]

Barry....

The only issues any of us had back 40 years ago or so would have been issues of National Geographic, or something like that. Only recently has this new, additional definition been associated with 'issues'. Back then we had problems. Right?

[barrysloate]

Good point Frank. This was 1981, so not quite that long ago.

[T206Collector]

...is when people think that our Nation's Constitution gives them the freedom to post a particular opinion on a privately run internet chat board.

The 1st Amendment does not require in any way, shape or form that Leon has to tolerate anything you might say about anything. Leon has an unfettered right to ban you.

And, more to the point, we all have the unfettered right to criticize you -- subject to Leon's unfettered right to ban us for criticizing you too harshly.

This board is not a democracy. It is a totalitarian dictatorship, with a benevolent dictator. And most of us are completely fine with that!

Carry on..... :D

[Jim VB]

This was my smile of the week. :D

Tbob,

I can't take credit for it. Randy Galloway of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram and ESPN Radio in Dallas, uses it to describe what happened when Billy Sims left Texas high school and went college at Oklahoma. (IQs in both states went up...)

Mine was but an adaptation.

[tbob]

Jim- Whilst we have heard the quote before, we think the reference to "he who shall not be named (but happily banned)" was hilarious. :D

[canjond]

This board is not a democracy. It is a totalitarian dictatorship, with a benevolent dictator. And most of us are completely fine with that!

Not to mention from Texas - which may or may not even be part of the Union.

[Tsaiko]

For various reasons I made a management decision and moved this to the front page for all to see. Many, many members don't look at the place that it was on the BST side. I will also reiterate my position on banning and censoring. I am very much against it unless there is something extraordinary that leads to that decision....or multiple infractions etc.... I truly believe that we can learn a lot from these types of threads. Happy collecting!!

Leon, let me just say that you're one of the most level headed administrators
I've ever seen on these internet thingys :)

[Wite3]

Stayed out of this but I too have a pet peeve whenever some misinformed person pulls out the Bill of Rights and the Constitution to protect their "free speech." The Bill of Rights says nothing about your right to say anything. What it talks about is the restriction on the government (specifically the Congress) from creating any laws restricting your right to free speech.
For reference the First Amendment actually reads:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I will never be arrested for yelling louder than you which is technically restricting your free speech. Never happen. Why, because it is totally legal and the Bill of Rights says nothing about that. Leon can ban you which does not make him a socialist (don't get me started on that view either) or a criminal. It makes him a citizen.

Most "laws" concerning free speech have been created through the actions of the judicial department in interpreting the Constitution and the common laws of the land.

So Derek...to you, I say be quiet, shut your mouth, shut your trap, take it elsewhere, cram it in your piehole, shut off the word faucet, take some pepto for your diarrhea of the mouth, stick your head back in the sand (but take it out of your butt first), hush your mouth, put a sock in it, zip it, pipe down, cut the chatter, children should be seen and not heard, simmer down, etc....none of which is illegal or trampling on your rights. So sorry.

Joshua

Joshua

[teetwoohsix]

you guys are fun to talk to. with your fact-less opinions on things. socialism is the way to go huh. if you dont like it then opinions have to go. Why dont while you guys are wiping your ass with the constitution you go ahead and wipe you ass with the bill of rights.

Maybe we can wipe our asses with your "3 day aged reprints"

[FUBAR]

I've seen this show before..... it was called 1 Vs. 100

[Matthew H]

It's funny, the Jordan Rc looks like it came out of the same pack as the Goudey Ruth. Why would you artificially age a card from the 80's, just sayin'.

[Rob D.]

It's funny, the Jordan Rc looks like it came out of the same pack as the Goudey Ruth. Why would you artificially age a card from the 80's, just sayin'.

Because the Constitution specifically says you can.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Maybe he can join forces with Collectors Forensic Register -- I sense a business opportunity here.

[dstraate]

I've got serious post envy here.

That guy almost surpassed my total on his first thread.

I think my next thread will have to be about the constitution. Or maybe Keith Olbermann.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Yes it does....and quite honestly Barry, if you ran the board it would have been shut down 3578 times now because of this kind of stuff. As I told you earlier this guy is on a short leash...but it's also important to let people stick their feet in their mouths too (imo)......I don't think we should help save people from themselves. I am sure others will disagree, and some will agree, but this has always been my MO.....regards

btw, my 14 yr old has heard the word "ass" many times.....it's not in the top 10 of "dirty words" that can't be said on the board....and also, nothing personal here. You are certainly one of my favorite people in the hobby and I consider you beyond a "hobby" friend...

Leon,

I don’t think we should help save people from themselves either. Call me cold hearted or whatever, but I think when people get scammed (be it by a “reprint” baseball card, Nigerian lottery or whatever), it’s their own fault for being greedy and falling for something that is too good to be true.

I defended the OP in his original thread. After seeing the Wagner card in this thread I have since changed my mind. I think removing the word “reprint” from a card is a pretty crappy thing to do. Regardless of my opinion though, I still think the seller has a right to sell his garbage.

However, that is not my decision, obviously that is yours. However, if you are going to let him sell his junk (even though it was listed in the wrong section), doesn’t he have a right to list it without being interfered with?

That’s how all this started and I am pretty sure the OP wouldn’t have acted the way he did or said the things he said if other members wouldn’t have interfered in his thread - I just don’t think it would have come to this point.

One of the other mods wrote a while back, “In the B/S/T area there should be no interference in the posts by 3rd parties.” Does this not hold true even in this case? I’m not sure why there are such rules if they’re not going to be enforced?

Regards,

David

[Matt]

One of the other mods wrote a while back, “In the B/S/T area there should be no interference in the posts by 3rd parties.” Does this not hold true even in this case? I’m not sure why there are such rules if they’re not going to be enforced?


David - would you ask such a "rule" to be enforced even if a seller was selling a bad card and passing it off as authentic? Perhaps it's more of a guideline...

[ramram]

Leon,

I don’t think we should help save people from themselves either. Call me cold hearted or whatever, but I think when people get scammed (be it by a “reprint” baseball card, Nigerian lottery or whatever), it’s their own fault for being greedy and falling for something that is too good to be true.

I defended the OP in his original thread. After seeing the Wagner card in this thread I have since changed my mind. I think removing the word “reprint” from a card is a pretty crappy thing to do. Regardless of my opinion though, I still think the seller has a right to sell his garbage.

However, that is not my decision, obviously that is yours. However, if you are going to let him sell his junk (even though it was listed in the wrong section), doesn’t he have a right to list it without being interfered with?


That’s how all this started and I am pretty sure the OP wouldn’t have acted the way he did or said the things he said if other members wouldn’t have interfered in his thread - I just don’t think it would have come to this point.

One of the other mods wrote a while back, “In the B/S/T area there should be no interference in the posts by 3rd parties.” Does this not hold true even in this case? I’m not sure why there are such rules if they’re not going to be enforced?

Regards,

David

So, David, just for argument let's say your dad were to think enough of you that he unknowingly bought you one of these cards at an inflated price for you as a birthday gift? Just because he's not knowledgeable about the cards I suppose that's his burden to get burned? Is that ok with you? If he were to buy it off of the B/S/T thread, would you want anybody to warn him?

Just asking.

Rob M.

[vintagetoppsguy]

David - would you ask such a "rule" to be enforced even if a seller was selling a bad card and passing it off as authentic? Perhaps it's more of a guideline...

Matt,

Hello! Certainly I wouldn’t ask that such a rule be enforced if a seller was selling a bad card and passing it off as authentic.

But that’s not the case here. He’s description clearly tells the buyer what they are getting (even if it is garbage).

I certainly understand the point that other posters have made as to how some unsuspecting buyer could get burned by one of these “reprints” somewhere in the future. However, I have always believed (and lived my life) with the “buyer beware” mentality. I have never bought a watch from somebody selling them from their trench coat. I have never bought electronics from the trunk of someone’s car. I have never bought a designer purse for $25 from someone peddling them on a street corner. Etc, etc. etc. I think you get my point.

Again, I understand the concerns of others, but it is ultimately the responsibility of the buyer to know what they are buying. If someone buys one of his ’33 Goudey Ruth’s on eBay for $150 somewhere down the road, what does that tell you about the buyer? It tells me that their own GREED was the motivational factor in their buying decision, thinking they were buying something for a fraction of the normal price. In other words, it if sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Regards,

David

[vintagetoppsguy]

So, David, just for argument let's say your dad were to think enough of you that he unknowingly bought you one of these cards at an inflated price for you as a birthday gift? Just because he's not knowledgeable about the cards I suppose that's his burden to get burned? Is that ok with you? If he were to buy it off of the B/S/T thread, would you want anybody to warn him?

Just asking.

Rob M.

Rob,

There are 2 issues separate issues in your question.

First, if he were to buy it off the B/S/T thread as you suggested, then he would clearly know what he was buying because it says “Reprint” in the title and body of the posting. The $5 cost would be the other dead giveaway.

Second, if he were to buy it at an inflated price as you also suggested (be it eBay, Cragislist, etc), then yes, that would be his own ignorance for not doing his homework first.

Let’s turn the question around. Let’s say your son collects fine art paintings and has always desired a painting by a particular artist whose normal works sell in the $5K range. Let’s also say that you were financially in the position to buy one for him. Would you honestly spend that kind of money without doing a little homework first and knowing exactly what you were buying and who you were buying it from? The logical answer is of course you would, so I think the question you posed is a fair one, but kind of ridiculous at the same time.

Regards,

David

[dstudeba]

If someone buys one of his ’33 Goudey Ruth’s on eBay for $150 somewhere down the road, what does that tell you about the buyer? It tells me that their own GREED was the motivational factor in their buying decision, thinking they were buying something for a fraction of the normal price. In other words, it if sounds too good to be true, it probably is.


That is your assumption. However if it is an auction what if the purchaser had actually bid at whatever the value of an authentic Goudey Ruth is and the underbidder was the one trying to get something for nothing? It would sell for $150, but not due to the greed of the winner.

[Leon]

Leon,

I don’t think we should help save people from themselves either. Call me cold hearted or whatever, but I think when people get scammed (be it by a “reprint” baseball card, Nigerian lottery or whatever), it’s their own fault for being greedy and falling for something that is too good to be true.

I defended the OP in his original thread. After seeing the Wagner card in this thread I have since changed my mind. I think removing the word “reprint” from a card is a pretty crappy thing to do. Regardless of my opinion though, I still think the seller has a right to sell his garbage.

However, that is not my decision, obviously that is yours. However, if you are going to let him sell his junk (even though it was listed in the wrong section), doesn’t he have a right to list it without being interfered with?

That’s how all this started and I am pretty sure the OP wouldn’t have acted the way he did or said the things he said if other members wouldn’t have interfered in his thread - I just don’t think it would have come to this point.

One of the other mods wrote a while back, “In the B/S/T area there should be no interference in the posts by 3rd parties.” Does this not hold true even in this case? I’m not sure why there are such rules if they’re not going to be enforced?

Regards,

David

Hi David,
You must have skipped over this part of that rule, which has been in the rules for years...

"Also, if any fraudulent activity is known about it can be posted in the BST threads, pertaining to that item, by 3rd parties. This is for the protection of the board. Caveat Emptor still is in effect."


Now, to me, erasing the word reprint from the reprint cards is almost akin to fraud, and certainly lends a hand downstream if someone wants to sell these as "I don't know if they are real or not". I don't care if he is selling them as reprints, when he erased that word he crossed the line, imo. Why on earth, if you were totally legit, would you erase that word?

[Matthew H]

Hello! Certainly I would’t ask that such a rule be enforced if a seller was selling a bad card and passing it off as authentic.

But that’s not the case here. He’s description clearly tells the buyer what they are getting (even if it is garbage)... David

How do we know that some of these reprints aren't home made? Depending on the year of issue, it is still illegal to reprint at home without permission. If there is no rule about selling illegally reprinted cards, I think that should be changed.

[steve B]

Because figuring that out has become too complex.

Take the Wagner he modified. Being 101 years old a Wagner T206 should be public domain and just fine to reprint along with all the other T206s. And yet....the text removed was a copyright notice and a licensing notice from Wagners estate. Add to that the possibility(99.9% sure) that the original Wagners were unlicensed and that possibly the owner of a particular Wagner would have some legal control over images of the physical item. All of it makes for a mess that only an IP lawyer would like.

Anyone consider reporting his "aging" to Wagners estate? I wonder what their take on it would be. Likely at least one letter "educating" him about removing their copyright notice and producing a derivative work. Just like that place in the 90's that made 3d cards from laser cut Topps and Donruss cards. They were gone before I had a chance to buy one once the big companies lawyers got involved.

Steve B

[Leon]

I don't think copyright or trademark infringement is the issue here. Even if it is (I am obviously not a lawyer so don't know for sure one way or the other) my concern, and where it relates to this board, is the opportunity for someone to be defrauded. Reprints have a place in the hobby if they are being sold with complete transparency and honesty. Erasing the word "reprint" and also artificially aging, crosses those boundaries, to me. Maybe not in the eye of the law, but to me, they do cross them. And the reason I moved this to the front page, again, is because I would rather this stuff be in the open than pushed under the covers. Quite a few new collectors read the board and it's a good intro into these shenanigans.

[mybuddyinc]

David- when Sarah Palin becomes president I will be moving to the Belgian Congo, so they won't be able to find me.

Barry, I don't think the Belgian's are in the Congo anymore, but if invited, I'll visit you ........ :)

[HRBAKER]

Barry that is very Alec Baldwinesque of you.

[rarerookies]

In my opinion you guys are unsuccessfully defending your argument. I got an idea, if this is going to keep going less do a q&a type thing. Direct ?'s to me or anyone else on here. You guys don't like reprints about as much as me not liking pizza on the bar at a Chinese buffet. It just ain't right.

Have you ever bought a car without a test drive or a mechanic checking it out? Or ever bought a home without an appraisal? If you weren't born yesterday then you probably already know that you should check stuff out before you buy it. The house wife's & uneducated hobbyists that you guys talk about getting taken advantage of on a reprint are probably the same people that get ripped off buying homes, cars and just about anything else.

If you have then unfortunately you are one of those people who will probably get burned on a baseball card. Will probably get burned on a car purchase and about anything else of perceived value or necessity

Someone please tackle these questions instead of just taking bits and pieces of a paragraph and using it for your own poorly researched and unfounded comments.

I'll start off with a few to get it started. A couple is really important to me to clear up what i referred to as i would never use the genocide of a people to be a point in defending reprint baseball cards.

1. When I was making references to the NSDAP or NAZI party, that I mentioned anything about the holocaust?

2. Would you agree that the only reference made when speaking of the NAZI party was there restriction on civil liberties and resources for the German people?

3. For those who smoke or drink: On your personal property, in your house, or in a smoking section that someone has the moral authority to tell you to cease your activities because they disapprove?

Free speech means the right to shout 'theatre' in a crowded fire.
-Abbie Hoffman-

[BBSD]

Leon: Thank you for moving this to the front page. Not sure I would have caught this post otherwise. You and all the other folks here really do a GREAT job for this hobby we all adore (most of the time). Happy Holidays! Barry

[rarerookies]

I'll say it again Rob.

Have you ever bought a car without a test drive or a mechanic checking it out? Or ever bought a home without an appraisal? If you weren't born yesterday then you probably already know that you should check stuff out before you buy it. The house wife's & uneducated hobbyists that you guys talk about getting taken advantage of on a reprint are probably the same people that get ripped off buying homes, cars and just about anything else.

If you have then unfortunately you are one of those people who will probably get burned on a baseball card. Will probably get burned on a car purchase and about anything else of perceived value or necessity.

I can almost hear you think from where I am sitting. Yes Rob, some people who sell cars, houses and wait should i say it............ Well ok, Baseball cards, yes baseball cards. I know how could you ever think that in the days of "Leave it To Beaver" that J. Edgar Hoover & McCarthy could possibly be on a witch hunt for communists in this country.

So brings me back to my point. Yes, if David's dad didn't do his research and didn't exercise common sense then he could be potentially ripped off by someone selling a fraudulent baseball card. I'd hate to already have paid for the care only to find out that there was no engine in it because i trusted the guy and he told me i didnt have to testdrive it.

Come on people, stupidity and ignorance is to blame for too many of this country's problems.




Some unscrupulous people in this world sell

So, David, just for argument let's say your dad were to think enough of you that he unknowingly bought you one of these cards at an inflated price for you as a birthday gift? Just because he's not knowledgeable about the cards I suppose that's his burden to get burned? Is that ok with you? If he were to buy it off of the B/S/T thread, would you want anybody to warn him?

Just asking.

Rob M.

[ramram]

This is a question of morals and ethics. Obviously you don't have any, plane and simple. So be it. No need to convince us anymore. We got it. You'd actually fit in quite nicely with a group of folks in Nigeria.

Rob M.

[teetwoohsix]

Please stop trying to flood the hobby with your junk aged reprints. And since you like to ramble, how about explaining why you remove the word "REPRINT" from your "creations"? Is it not to mislead ? This has been brought up a few times, but you seem to dodge the issue.

[Wite3]

Derek,
I will answer one of your questions...here is the problem with your analogy...most adults are buying cars and houses and have some experience and yet they still make mistakes. Our small claims courts are populated by people who still make mistakes and not doing the research. That is not the problem as I see it.

The problem is kids and young adults. Someone buys one of your cards and turns around and sells it on ebay, another forum, craig's list, facebook, etc. where children have access. The kids buy it thinking they found a great deal. Who does this hurt? Children, teens, and anyone else trying to find hidden treasure.

I will turn it around. I buy a fake postal money order from someone who says it is fake in the ad. I will gladly give you that counterfeit postal money order for one of your cards. It looks totally real to the untrained person (you). You take it, send me the card and realize that the money order was a fake. Should the blame be on you because you did not do the research? According to your arguments, it is absolutely on you.

Joshua

[Wite3]

No truer words have ever been posted...

"Some unscrupulous people in this world sell"

[rarerookies]

Do your research and learn some history before you banter and make a fool outta yourself.

Current History Lesson:
Nigeria's government is called a federal republic government.
The United States gov is called federal republic.

Lesson for you: When you act without the proper research you are liable to be wrong or get screwed.

If you like i gotta great deal on a Wagner card for ya. Mint condition. My grandfather told me he got it from Babe Ruth when he worked at Wrigley field in the '50s. Would you like to make an offer on this card?

No everyone don't tell him that ruth died in '48. he will never know he he

This is not a question of free speech. This is a question of morals and ethics. Obviously you don't have any, plane and simple. So be it. No need to convince us anymore. We got it. You'd actually fit in quite nicely with a group of folks in Nigeria. Unfortunately though, you might lose that great freedom of speech soapbox that you're balancing on.

Rob M.

[Matthew H]

Derek,

Stop trying argue your points. You will never convince anyone here that what your doing is ok. If you would have read a few threads before taking a dump on the BST, you would have realized that this board is full of people who are passionate about old cardboard. The people here love to see new collectors get their first cards. No one here will agree that the new collector that got burned by one of you cards is at fault.

While we're asking questions, why would you spend three days aging a card for five bucks?

[rarerookies]

Thank you josh for your post. I will try my best to reply.

1. In my opinion, the kids aren't at risk for these cards. Kids: defined as 13 and under. Scammers aren't going to market there cards to them because they aren't stupid enough they are getting a real '48 Ruth card for $20 bucks or whatever they have in there mowing yard accounts. And yes you are right, people make mistakes. That's why they have warranties, appraisers and grading services. So that people have enough resources in front of them to not go into something that could cost them a lot of money ignorant.

2. You can send me a fake money order if you like. And you are correct. I am unfamilier with real vs fakes. But I am familiar with the fact that there are a lot of people in the world that will try to scam you, especially in this day and age. That I will either A. wait til it clears the bank, or B> google counterfeit money orders. And see what to look for. pic for reference


http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/goudeyruths/counterfeit-money-order.jpg

Honestly I don't deal with the kind of people who i would need to question authenticity or not.

I think i get the picture now and understand why you guys could be so mad at reprints. I think that many of you while trying to burn someone got burned yourself.

Consider this. You see an add on craigslist about a '48 leaf ruth card. You see the scan and you see the price $350 bucks. That's cheap but not too cheap. You meet up with the guy he seems the normal guy. he says he needs the money to pay rent. you offer him $250 bucks for the card thinking your really shoving it in. he reluctantly agrees. you give him the $250 and go on about your way only to find out that you weren't the one lowballing a guy down on his luck he was actually scamming you.

So the tough guy who stuck with the $250 price sending the guy back to his family $100 less than what he actually wanted got scammed. you knew that $350 was a fair price for that card but you knew you could take advantage of him because you perceived his ignorance.




Everyone gets scammed everyday. People believe that if i take this pill i will lose weight because Kathy Ireland said i would. Or Billy Mayes said this auger would til my entire garden, or at least that's what i saw on tv. Does it ever clean as good as it does on tv. How many people still buy into that crap.






Derek,
I will answer one of your questions...here is the problem with your analogy...most adults are buying cars and houses and have some experience and yet they still make mistakes. Our small claims courts are populated by people who still make mistakes and not doing the research. That is not the problem as I see it.

The problem is kids and young adults. Someone buys one of your cards and turns around and sells it on ebay, another forum, craig's list, facebook, etc. where children have access. The kids buy it thinking they found a great deal. Who does this hurt? Children, teens, and anyone else trying to find hidden treasure.

I will turn it around. I buy a fake postal money order from someone who says it is fake in the ad. I will gladly give you that counterfeit postal money order for one of your cards. It looks totally real to the untrained person (you). You take it, send me the card and realize that the money order was a fake. Should the blame be on you because you did not do the research? According to your arguments, it is absolutely on you.

Joshua

[rarerookies]

matt,

Arguing my point? that was done on page one of the thread, now i am just responding to you guys.

I spend time doing it because its more of a tribute to the originals. Like singers covering a song, or actors performing on stage to a historic person.

I have a great love for the cardboard as well. It give me a certain satisfaction when a card comes out looking great. aging them is just a neat process to witness. taking a new card and making it look old is just fun to do

Its really not about the money. at $5 bucks a card even selling 100 cards a month that wont make my house payment. Its more of a hobby than a way to make money.

I have a small story for ya. I took my first cousins kids out for donuts one morning. 2 boys 9 and 11, they got in the car. my boy was in the backseat cause he still rides in a car seat and one of the older boys rode up front. he noticed a plastic bag with cards and immediately noticed the Wagner card in there. of course not really knowing what reprints are being in elementary school i educated them that morning about cards. Showing them my collection of cards, trivial as though it may seem a jerry rice rookie compared to a 33 goudey ruth buy the rice was real and the ruth was not.

I got to give them there first baseball cards. The ironic twist is that my first (there father) cousin 25 years earlier gave me some cards that i still had that i got to pass along to them while telling them how i got the cards. they were so excited about cards. i gave them several commons and tried to diversify it out so that they could appreciate collecting as i do. of course i knew what was on there mind too. they wanted one of the reprints i had. i let them pick there own card out. one picked a Ruth and the other a Gehrig. they both know that they aren't real cards. so now they got a nice collection of real cards and a couple of really nice reprints. and chances are when they get older when they hear goudey ruth for $500 nr/mt they will pickup and run.


In Response to this statement
"No one here will agree that the new collector that got burned by one of you cards is at fault."

I am sure that people on here will agree that these type of baseball cards are an investment and not the ones you throw in a shoebox.

When you spend 15k on a car you have it inspected by someone who knows more about it than you, right?

When you buy a house you acquire the services of a Realtor because they are more experienced in real estate transactions than the buyer.

Same thing with expensive cards. You drop 15k on what you think is a '33 goudey ruth and don't get it inspected by a "mechanic" Your in for bad news.


hope that answers your questions.



Derek,

Stop trying argue your points. You will never convince anyone here that what your doing is ok. If you would have read a few threads before taking a dump on the BST, you would have realized that this board is full of people who are passionate about old cardboard. The people here love to see new collectors get their first cards. No one here will agree that the new collector that got burned by one of you cards is at fault.

While we're asking questions, why would you spend three days aging a card for five bucks?

[rarerookies]

Good question, let me address that statement.

Why reprint is removed guys!!!

The other 95% of people including myself likes to sit back and thumb through the aged cards. Make believing that just for one sec that they actually own the real card. It adds to the authenticity of that.

Intent to mislead statement bothers me as the first post I stated these were reprints. i have no more authority from some dumba$$ who buys some from me to pass them off as fakes just as gun manufacturers don't have any authority over the person who buys the gun to intentionally kill someone with it.

I don't understand, you guys are either really paranoid or there is people out there selling reprints as real.

People who i sell them too are like me, enjoy the hobby. not try to steal from people by passing them off as real. That's a crime.

But just a few tips for ya if your browsing on ebay.

If you see stuff like this i'd stay away.

Ungraded babe ruth, must sell fast. Don't have time to grade

Not an expert selling as reprint

found at grandmas

There is no such thing as a good deal anymore. even granny knows what those ty beenies are worth nowadays.



Please stop trying to flood the hobby with your junk aged reprints. And since you like to ramble, how about explaining why you remove the word "REPRINT" from your "creations"? Is it not to mislead ? This has been brought up a few times, but you seem to dodge the issue.

[quinnsryche]

That does not answer why you REMOVE the word reprint. Just say it, you remove it for the sole purpose of deception. You are a fraud, a crook and a cheat. No one here is paranoid, deception in this hobby exists and you just help to perpetuate it.

[rarerookies]

hey

I knew you got up this morning running downstairs to your pc just dying to know the answer to that question. The answer is right before your post, sir.


Why do you REMOVE the word reprint from the cards that have it? Just answer the question like you have been asked multiple times previously.

[rarerookies]

well said sir :)

Matt,

Hello! Certainly I wouldn’t ask that such a rule be enforced if a seller was selling a bad card and passing it off as authentic.

But that’s not the case here. He’s description clearly tells the buyer what they are getting (even if it is garbage).

I certainly understand the point that other posters have made as to how some unsuspecting buyer could get burned by one of these “reprints” somewhere in the future. However, I have always believed (and lived my life) with the “buyer beware” mentality. I have never bought a watch from somebody selling them from their trench coat. I have never bought electronics from the trunk of someone’s car. I have never bought a designer purse for $25 from someone peddling them on a street corner. Etc, etc. etc. I think you get my point.

Again, I understand the concerns of others, but it is ultimately the responsibility of the buyer to know what they are buying. If someone buys one of his ’33 Goudey Ruth’s on eBay for $150 somewhere down the road, what does that tell you about the buyer? It tells me that their own GREED was the motivational factor in their buying decision, thinking they were buying something for a fraction of the normal price. In other words, it if sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Regards,

David

[rarerookies]

i totally agree with you Leon. I would have never known about reprints like this if i hadn't have been burned myself. everyone whether they agree or disagree should be aware like in so many things in life people try and take advantage of others.


I don't think copyright or trademark infringement is the issue here. Even if it is (I am obviously not a lawyer so don't know for sure one way or the other) my concern, and where it relates to this board, is the opportunity for someone to be defrauded. Reprints have a place in the hobby if they are being sold with complete transparency and honesty. Erasing the word "reprint" and also artificially aging, crosses those boundaries, to me. Maybe not in the eye of the law, but to me, they do cross them. And the reason I moved this to the front page, again, is because I would rather this stuff be in the open than pushed under the covers. Quite a few new collectors read the board and it's a good intro into these shenanigans.

[rarerookies]

sorry guys for all the posts i am just now getting to respond to everyone.

Good point when you say that Leon has the authority to cease my free speech on the forum. and why, because i am on his turf? So i appreciate him letting me express my viewpoints as well because i am enjoying this conversation.

Got a question for you josh. you dont have to answer on the board, just answer it in your head. When you ride in another persons car do you feel compelled to change there radio station or toggle there a/c?

Stayed out of this but I too have a pet peeve whenever some misinformed person pulls out the Bill of Rights and the Constitution to protect their "free speech." The Bill of Rights says nothing about your right to say anything. What it talks about is the restriction on the government (specifically the Congress) from creating any laws restricting your right to free speech.
For reference the First Amendment actually reads:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I will never be arrested for yelling louder than you which is technically restricting your free speech. Never happen. Why, because it is totally legal and the Bill of Rights says nothing about that. Leon can ban you which does not make him a socialist (don't get me started on that view either) or a criminal. It makes him a citizen.

Most "laws" concerning free speech have been created through the actions of the judicial department in interpreting the Constitution and the common laws of the land.

So Derek...to you, I say be quiet, shut your mouth, shut your trap, take it elsewhere, cram it in your piehole, shut off the word faucet, take some pepto for your diarrhea of the mouth, stick your head back in the sand (but take it out of your butt first), hush your mouth, put a sock in it, zip it, pipe down, cut the chatter, children should be seen and not heard, simmer down, etc....none of which is illegal or trampling on your rights. So sorry.

Joshua

Joshua

[rarerookies]

I got the idea from anther person selling them but stopped selling those because like you, i felt that was a little too far. Since then i had stopped selling them


Nicely played. Game. Set. And Match.

We have moved from phony cards to phony cards in phony slabs.

[rarerookies]

whats on your bookshelf barry?


Derek- insults aside, your insight into what is really going on in this country, based on your very misdirected posts, is truly alarming. Why don't you try reading a few books- I know that is a terribly elitist concept- before you start preaching to educated board members about socialism. Thank you.

[Rob D.]

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[nebboy]

I for one am tried of this guy pulling SCF chain.
Hes just trolling!!
Ive got a brother-in-law (or had) just like this guy, thats better/smarter/and right about everything.

Best to just skip this tread, stop reading it and and don't reply to it, and let it fad away and him with it.

DON'T PLAY HIS LITTLE GAMES

[Wite3]

I now appreciate how Derek preaches to do his research but then he comes out with a blanket statement like "95% of collectors..."...Derek...where did you get this figure? Did you do any market research? Conduct any polls?

Sheesh...I now feel he is just a troll who stumbled into a part of the internet he was not prepared for.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Hi David,
You must have skipped over this part of that rule, which has been in the rules for years...

"Also, if any fraudulent activity is known about it can be posted in the BST threads, pertaining to that item, by 3rd parties. This is for the protection of the board. Caveat Emptor still is in effect."


Now, to me, erasing the word reprint from the reprint cards is almost akin to fraud, and certainly lends a hand downstream if someone wants to sell these as "I don't know if they are real or not". I don't care if he is selling them as reprints, when he erased that word he crossed the line, imo. Why on earth, if you were totally legit, would you erase that word?


Leon,

Hello! I think erasing the word “Reprint” is a pretty crappy thing to do as I stated in an earlier post, but I don’t think it could be construed as fraud since he is still selling them as reprints. The bold text that you posted above is really irrelevant to the point I was trying to make, and no, I didn’t skip over that part as you suggested. With all due respect, you skipped over the events in the order in which they happened. I will try to explain my point from another angle.

You stated above that erasing the word “Reprint” from a card is almost akin to fraud. Well, let’s just assume for a minute that it actually is fraud. By posting the bold text above, you’re trying to make it sound like others had a right to interfere.

However, if you look at this thread from the beginning, you can see that he was interfered with 2 days before it was discovered he was erasing the word “reprint” from the card. So, the original intent of the interference was not to point out fraud as you’re trying to suggest in the bold text above, it was to voice the displeasure of some for selling his cards. That just shouldn’t have happened on the B/S/T boards. Whether others like it or not, he has a right to post something for sale without being interfered with.

With that said, this is obviously your forum and you have a right to run it as you wish. I think we can all agree that the cards are garbage, but that is not the point here. The point is that he has a right to sell them. Some want to censor what he is selling. You said in another thread that you didn’t want to censor Bruce and I don’t see the difference in censoring words or censoring items for sale. Censorship is censorship. Again, as much as I, you and others think his cards are garbage, he still has a right to sell them – maybe not here, but somewhere else. I don’t agree with it, just like I don’t agree with serial killers selling their “memorabilia” from behind prison walls, but it is what it is.

Regards,

David

[Robextend]

Some want to censor what he is selling. You said in another thread that you didn’t want to censor Bruce and I don’t see the difference in censoring words or censoring items for sale. Censorship is censorship.

For the most part Bruce's stupidity is all talk, and his ridiculous comments/remarks won't hurt the hobby overall. When these "reprints" are made available to the masses it is obvious that they can easily fall into the wrong hands which of course does hurt the hobby. I am all for non-interference on the B/S/T, but there are cases where sometimes people have to be called out.

[barrysloate]

Derek- I actually have a huge library. I was a graduate student in English Lit, and I collect books. If anything I have too many and need to get rid of some. But my point is it is unlikely you really understand socialism save how the talking heads on the right carelessly throw the term around. I really don't fully understand it either, so I don't drop it casually into conversations. I'd rather learn more about it before I pretend to be an expert.

That was my only point. Carry on.

[ibuysportsephemera]

Can I have the last 10 minutes of my life back please....what a waste of time, and yet I feel the need to respond.

Derek-

Argue all you want, IMO your sole purpose was revealed when you removed the word reprint or any modern dates in your aging process. You are trying to deceive, plain and simple. Your argument that we have all been burned and buyer beware doesn't hold water with me. Why be part of the problem by making these cards available to an unsuspecting public?

To All Others-

Derek is the classic internet forum troll. Loves to stir the pot, doesn't listen to the obvious sound reasoning of the rest of the group and will continue to post so that he always has the last word.

I have had my say, feel somewhat better and will never post again in the is thread so Derek can continue to get his jollies. In fact, I probably will never read this thread again.

Jeff

[Frank A]

Why is this post still on? I cannot believe that time is given to this guy wo really doesn't care obuot old cards. His purpose is to get attention and make money selling his crap. Why is this post allowed to continue? It is a absolute joke. Frank

[timzcardz]

Why is this post still on? I cannot believe that time is given to this guy wo really doesn't care obuot old cards. His purpose is to get attention and make money selling his crap. Why is this post allowed to continue? It is a absolute joke. Frank

It is probably still on here for the good of the hobby.

The more time that he can be lured into spending here, the less time that he has to ply his ill-conceived wares. :)

[T206Collector]

Derek is the classic internet forum troll. Loves to stir the pot, doesn't listen to the obvious sound reasoning of the rest of the group. . . .

Agreed. Shut him down.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The guy is charging $5 for the cards and disclosing that they are reprints. His intent is to defraud?

[T206Collector]

The guy is charging $5 for the cards and disclosing that they are reprints. His intent is to defraud?

Adding fuel to the fire.

He is at best either intentionally or recklessly promoting a future fraud.

[hunterdutchess]

Before:
http://cgi.ebay.com/T206-Honus-Wagner-Piedmont-Tobacco-Reprint-Card-/380289076018?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item588afecb32#ht_500wt_1156

After:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Honus-Wagner-T-206-Card-Real-Reprint-/290503626950?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item43a35d90c6#ht_500wt_1156

[Leon]

The guy is charging $5 for the cards and disclosing that they are reprints. His intent is to defraud?

Peter- Actually, I might have missed it but I didn't see anyone say this guy is committing fraud himself. You are ignoring the point.....take this for example....here is what these cards will end up like, and worse.....I guarantee it, and you know it too.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Babe-Ruth-Old-Looking-Baseball-Card-NY-Yankees-Legend_W0QQitemZ230558370859

Unlike some, I still don't think of him as a troll. He is just causing future problems for the hobby. If you are ok with that, then so be it.

[Matthew H]

If I were selling unmarked reprints of 100$ bills for 5 bucks, it would be fraud. I think this should be fraud too.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Leon you did miss it, see for example post 167.

"You are trying to deceive, plain and simple."

Not that I am defending the guy or his absurd rants....

[Tsaiko]

The guy is charging $5 for the cards and disclosing that they are reprints. His intent is to defraud?

How much do reprints usually go for, without the artificially aged look, about a buck right? Another buck for shipping? $2 bucks!

Someone might be interested in paying him $3 bucks per card to rough them up, but I'd rather have a pristine reprint to dream over.

The five dollars includes shipping, but it doesn't say how they are shipped.

Then when I looked at the Wagner, it was $15, but included Case (screw down) and......wait for it....Tracking Jerry, Tracking. Now there are two more items to mark up and the profit starts to add up...the American way of Capitalism at work here. For another $5, I bet I can get a bow and for another $5 a Certificate of nonAuthenticity.

Really not illegal, dubious, but not illegal. Enabling a third party to resell a reprint as authentic, which will invariably happen, is a real shame as far as the hobby is concerned, but as ebay is evidence of, there's apparently more than one sucker born everyday. This fits right in with the banking industry motto - An Uneducated Consumer Is Our Best Customer -

[Leon]

Leon you did miss it, see for example post 167.

"You are trying to deceive, plain and simple."

Not that I am defending the guy or his absurd rants....

I didn't really want to post again in this thread but no, I didn't see that, Peter. In that case I agree with you on both points. best regards

[Buythatcard]

The only place a reprint belongs is in the garbage. The few times that a reprint has crossed my path, I tore it up and threw it away.

[bh3443]

Does anyone know who was behind making those Dover reprint books way back? We all saw the potential problems of reprints even way back then!
Just curious who was behind this Dover Reprint thing that has turned into an un-controlllable monster all these years later!

[thekingofclout]

Does anyone know who was behind making those Dover reprint books way back? We all saw the potential problems of reprints even way back then!
Just curious who was behind this Dover Reprint thing that has turned into an un-controlllable monster all these years later!

As I remember it, I think it was Bert Sugar.

[MikeGarcia]

When the Oakies left Oklahoma and moved to California, it raised the average I.Q. of both states.
Will Rogers

[Jim VB]

When the Oakies left Oklahoma and moved to California, it raised the average I.Q. of both states.
Will Rogers

Learn something new every day. Thank you!

[Matthew H]

Does anyone know who was behind making those Dover reprint books way back? We all saw the potential problems of reprints even way back then!
Just curious who was behind this Dover Reprint thing that has turned into an un-controlllable monster all these years later!

It was Bert Sugar. I loved those books, when I was 7, they turned me on to old cards. Other than sharing the same image, they were nothing like the originals; the way reprints should be.

[calvindog]

But my point is it is unlikely you really understand socialism save how the talking heads on the right carelessly throw the term around. I really don't fully understand it either, so I don't drop it casually into conversations. I'd rather learn more about it before I pretend to be an expert.



Sort of how the left used to throw around the word "Nazi." I guess that stopped once Bush left office.

[barrysloate]

I never threw the word around...not even once.

[4815162342]

Sort of how the left used to throw around the word "Nazi." I guess that stopped once Bush left office.

+1

[glynparson]

I think you are nothing better than a whore and should go set up your wares on a shady city street corner.

[rarerookies]

I've been out for a couple days. whos the whore?


I think you are nothing better than a whore and should go set up your wares on a shady city street corner.

[rarerookies]

Hilarius. Love that. Seriously someone paid $100 bucks for that. They must be the biggest dummies

Before:
http://cgi.ebay.com/T206-Honus-Wagner-Piedmont-Tobacco-Reprint-Card-/380289076018?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item588afecb32#ht_500wt_1156

After:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Honus-Wagner-T-206-Card-Real-Reprint-/290503626950?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item43a35d90c6#ht_500wt_1156

[rarerookies]

Key things to look at for buyers on this post

Seller info
Member id only-deals4u ( Feedback Score Of 0 )

UNKNOWN AUTHENTICITY (PLEASE SEE ABOVE PICTURES)

Only fools would fall for that one.

You can't fix stupid
-Ron White-



Peter- Actually, I might have missed it but I didn't see anyone say this guy is committing fraud himself. You are ignoring the point.....take this for example....here is what these cards will end up like, and worse.....I guarantee it, and you know it too.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Babe-Ruth-Old-Looking-Baseball-Card-NY-Yankees-Legend_W0QQitemZ230558370859

Unlike some, I still don't think of him as a troll. He is just causing future problems for the hobby. If you are ok with that, then so be it.

[rarerookies]

Love the quotes

An Uneducated Consumer Is Our Best Customer -



How much do reprints usually go for, without the artificially aged look, about a buck right? Another buck for shipping? $2 bucks!

Someone might be interested in paying him $3 bucks per card to rough them up, but I'd rather have a pristine reprint to dream over.

The five dollars includes shipping, but it doesn't say how they are shipped.

Then when I looked at the Wagner, it was $15, but included Case (screw down) and......wait for it....Tracking Jerry, Tracking. Now there are two more items to mark up and the profit starts to add up...the American way of Capitalism at work here. For another $5, I bet I can get a bow and for another $5 a Certificate of nonAuthenticity.

Really not illegal, dubious, but not illegal. Enabling a third party to resell a reprint as authentic, which will invariably happen, is a real shame as far as the hobby is concerned, but as ebay is evidence of, there's apparently more than one sucker born everyday. This fits right in with the banking industry motto - An Uneducated Consumer Is Our Best Customer -

[rarerookies]

Sorry new to all this internet forum. I had to look up trolling along with several other acronyms you guys use.

I am not saying i am better smarter or right about everything. I express my opinions and respond to individual posts directed towards myself. I enjoy a health educated debate. If you can't hack it by just facts and not use slanderous remarks you might fit in on this post.


I for one am tried of this guy pulling SCF chain.
Hes just trolling!!
Ive got a brother-in-law (or had) just like this guy, thats better/smarter/and right about everything.

Best to just skip this tread, stop reading it and and don't reply to it, and let it fad away and him with it.

DON'T PLAY HIS LITTLE GAMES

[calvindog]

I never threw the word around...not even once.

Kudos to you!

[rarerookies]

I find this distrubing and please someone back this up. I understand the reason why, however you guys areslamming me for aging reprints while you guys are soaking originals and altering the card in such a way to get a higher grade. When your selling your card to you disclose to the buyer, hey i gave this a bath in water for a couple days do it would look nicer for you and so i caould sell it to you at a higher price. So who's really doing the missleading?

[ChiefBenderForever]

I find this distrubing and please someone back this up. I understand the reason why, however you guys areslamming me for aging reprints while you guys are soaking originals and altering the card in such a way to get a higher grade. When your selling your card to you disclose to the buyer, hey i gave this a bath in water for a couple days do it would look nicer for you and so i caould sell it to you at a higher price. So who's really doing the missleading?

Soaked=Real Fake=Fake

Soaking is not altering the card. Giving a card a bath just cleans it up and lifts the grime, no crime, nothing to disclose. If someone takes the time to clean up a card and make it look nicer than it was they deserve to get a higher price, after all, eye appeal is everything.

[Wite3]

People who soak cards to remove paper, gum, etc. from the card are not trying to defraud the people they are selling it to or creating a situation where someone is defrauded. Often people do disclose that a card was altered when they sell it.

Original card + water = nicer original card ... no fraud
Reprint card + "aging" = unknown reprint card...fraud

BTW, if you know the answer as you state, why ask the question?

[rarerookies]

Ok. So if you soak the card to enhance the appeal of the card doesn't sanding, re backing, trimming help enhance the card too?

So if soaking's ok then whats wrong with trimming or rebacking as long as the reback is an original card? Don't those enhance the appeal of the card too?

The word card doctors come to mind.





People who soak cards to remove paper, gum, etc. from the card are not trying to defraud the people they are selling it to or creating a situation where someone is defrauded. Often people do disclose that a card was altered when they sell it.

Original card + water = nicer original card ... no fraud
Reprint card + "aging" = unknown reprint card...fraud

BTW, if you know the answer as you state, why ask the question?

[barrysloate]

Derek- do you actually believe your argument, or are you just giving everybody a hard time?

[J.McMurry]

This reminds me of a guy I knew years ago who started selling computer cards for satelite dishes which enabled you to recieve pay channels at no monthly cost. I asked him about the legality of it and he said ,"it's legal for me to sell them,but it's illegal for people to use them".:rolleyes:

[tothrk]

My car gets a "bath" on a regular basis. That doesn't make it FAKE.

[sayhey24]

Ok. So if you soak the card to enhance the appeal of the card doesn't sanding, re backing, trimming help enhance the card too?

So if soaking's ok then whats wrong with trimming or rebacking as long as the reback is an original card? Don't those enhance the appeal of the card too?

The word card doctors come to mind.

Card doctors is actually two words, not one.

The poster also needs to learn the difference between there and their, and slander and libel.

Greg

[rarerookies]

So basically you really have nothing of any substance to say about the topic besides grammar issues?


Card doctors is actually two words, not one.

The poster also needs to learn the difference between there and their, and slander and libel.

Greg

[rarerookies]

It doesn't make it a fake but it does alter the appearance of the card


My car gets a "bath" on a regular basis. That doesn't make it FAKE.

[rarerookies]

No one has given me a reason not to believe my argument and as long as you guys keep posting on this thread I'll keep responding.

Derek- do you actually believe your argument, or are you just giving everybody a hard time?

[rarerookies]

That makes no sense. You can legally own a reprint.

This reminds me of a guy I knew years ago who started selling computer cards for satelite dishes which enabled you to recieve pay channels at no monthly cost. I asked him about the legality of it and he said ,"it's legal for me to sell them,but it's illegal for people to use them".:rolleyes:

[teetwoohsix]

ok Derek, you are right and everyone is wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLzJ3tGLWxA

[FUBAR]

The difference, obvious to everyone except you, is that you are "aging" the cards to deceive, not enhance. Putting lipstick on the pig so to speak!

If you use a little water to get rid of some dirt, you are not deceiving anyone.

If you wish to sell this crap, this is probably the wrong place to do it. I would suggest places like Blowout cards, who's card buying members might not have the same upstanding morals as the members of this site do!

You are not going to find any sympathy or customers here!

Sorry if i am being rude, and i am sure I am not alone in this statement...

IF YOUR ONLY PURPOSE HERE IS TO SELL REPRINTS ..... GO AWAY!! (i apologize in advance Leon)

[Vol]

.

[asphaltman]

I don't read stupid threads often. But when I do, I prefer to read about artificially aged reprints that will be sold at a later date on eBay to a clueless collector.

Stay thirsty my friends.

[53Browns]

Yeah, please peddle your junk elsewhere. This site is for collectors of authentic material.

[J.McMurry]

RR- I was just reminded of that because,..

If you're selling reprints,that is perfectly legal.

But if your selling reprints that have been "enhanced" to look real,then it's obvious that your target market will be mainly crooks who will try to resell the cards as real,which is Illegal.

I admit it's not a apples to apples comparison,but I said I was reminded of it,not that it was the same.

[Wite3]

I tried to educate...he is a troll.

You want a better comparison...

You take a known fake purse and remove the tags and add gucci symbol. You say you are just enhancing something to make it affordable to someone who can't own the real thing. You want it to look authentic. It is still a fake though and can still then be used for a fraudulent transaction.

OR...you take a real gucci bag, clean off the dirt and sew up the rip. It is still a real gucci bag and still retains its value as such.

Do you get it now?

[E93]

Sort of how the left used to throw around the word "Nazi." I guess that stopped once Bush left office.


Wow. I didn't realize it was the left painting Hitler mustaches on Obama images during health care debates. Thanks for enlightening us.

[rarerookies]

I haven't posted anything else for sale on this site since I found out you guys weren't interested.


Yeah, please peddle your junk elsewhere. This site is for collectors of authentic material.

[rarerookies]

I understand what you are saying but you are bashing me for something someone else might do. And not what I am doing. Just like if someone goes out and buys sudafed and makes meth out of it or someone buys a gun and murders someone.

Do you blame the gun or the drug manufacturer or do you blame the person who buys it?

I tried to educate...he is a troll.

You want a better comparison...

You take a known fake purse and remove the tags and add gucci symbol. You say you are just enhancing something to make it affordable to someone who can't own the real thing. You want it to look authentic. It is still a fake though and can still then be used for a fraudulent transaction.

OR...you take a real gucci bag, clean off the dirt and sew up the rip. It is still a real gucci bag and still retains its value as such.

Do you get it now?

[E93]

Yawn. I have not followed this thread, but of the little I have skimmed through this morning, I have one request: Leon, please shut this down.
JimB

[uffda51]

+1. This guy is free to start a forum for collectors of artficially aged reprinted cards. Or used dental floss. He has worn out his welcome here.

[tiger8mush]

I understand what you are saying but you are bashing me for something someone else might do. And not what I am doing. Just like if someone goes out and buys sudafed and makes meth out of it or someone buys a gun and murders someone.

Do you blame the gun or the drug manufacturer or do you blame the person who buys it?

Turning sudafed into meth requires work. Buying a gun requires some process (background checks / certification /etc). Buying a $5 reprint from you that has been made to look like the original and had the word "reprint" removed is MUCH easier.

What you are actually doing (using your analogy) is taking sudafed (a reprint with "reprint" on it) and turning it into what looks and tastes like meth, but selling it as sudafed. Obviously, someone down the line will try to pass it off as the real thing, which its not.

[rarerookies]

So are you saying that I am just as guilty for selling reprints as the end user is for selling them at original?


Turning sudafed into meth requires work. Buying a gun requires some process (background checks / certification /etc). Buying a $5 reprint from you that has been made to look like the original and had the word "reprint" removed is MUCH easier.

What you are actually doing (using your analogy) is taking sudafed (a reprint with "reprint" on it) and turning it into what looks and tastes like meth, but selling it as sudafed. Obviously, someone down the line will try to pass it off as the real thing, which its not.

[ChiefBenderForever]

So are you saying that I am just as guilty for selling reprints as the end user is for selling them at original?

No not at all, I believe the correct term would be 'enabler'

[rarerookies]

Ok, that's fair. I will accept that title.

No not at all, I believe the correct term would be 'enabler'

[Kawika]

Here's an artificially aged card that has been altered by Nazis. Can we put this thread out of its misery now?
http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/bbbofsfirstclass/miscellanybaseball/websize/Hitler%20Matty.jpg

[richieb315]

28670

[calvindog]

Wow. I didn't realize it was the left painting Hitler mustaches on Obama images during health care debates. Thanks for enlightening us.

Yeah, the lefties never called Bush Hitler or anything like that. They were too busy smoking dope, collecting their allowances and buying baseball cards.

[Rob D.]

Yeah, the lefties never called Bush Hitler or anything like that. They were too busy smoking dope, collecting their allowances and buying baseball cards.

Darn. Thread didn't get locked in time. Double darn.

[Tsaiko]

This thread has really got me thinking.

What would be the best way to artificially age a recreation of Hitler's used dental floss?

It would make a great stocking stuffer for that special nazi on your Christmas list. :rolleyes:


Really, this thread lives?? :confused:

[rarerookies]

Hitler had false teeth. Seriously get your history right before it makes you look ignorant again, sir. :D

This thread has really got me thinking.

What would be the best way to artificially age a recreation of Hitler's used dental floss?

It would make a great stocking stuffer for that special nazi on your Christmas list. :rolleyes:


Really, this thread lives?? :confused:

[rarerookies]

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/goudeyruths/Red_Forman_you_dumb_ass.jpg


28670

[asphaltman]

Why do we park on driveways and drive on parkways?

[Jim VB]

We have reached this point.

[Tsaiko]

Hitler had false teeth. Seriously get your history right before it makes you look ignorant again, sir. :D

Teeth? You quoted me, but no where in my sarcastic post did I mention teeth.

If you ever get a chance to study history, instead of simply typing the word, look into the many uses for floss during WWII.

Now, if you're looking for someone appropriate to call names, I suggest you find a mirror.

[rarerookies]

A quote from you. "What would be the best way to artificially age a recreation of Hitler's used dental floss?"

Enlighten me, what else would have Hitler uses dental floss for?

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/goudeyruths/Red_Forman_you_dumb_ass.jpg



Teeth? You quoted me, but no where in my sarcastic post did I mention teeth.

If you ever get a chance to study history, instead of simply typing the word, look into the many uses for floss during WWII.

Now, if you're looking for someone appropriate to call names, I suggest you find a mirror.

[FUBAR]

Rarerookies.. i got you a Christmas present

http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/1439167346/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291707774&sr=8-1

[Exhibitman]

Why do we park on driveways and drive on parkways?

why are asteriods in the sky and hemmorhoids in your ass?

[T206Collector]

. . . one of the lamest 235+ post car-crash-troll threads I've ever forced myself to read through on Net54baseball.com.

Aside from the lefty-righty political Nazi jabs taking place in the margins, the whole thing can be summed up by (1) a guy that is legally selling altered reprints vs. (2) the conscience of the entire pre-war baseball card community that disdains people that legally sell altered reprints.

I've enjoyed my popcorn more watching "I know you are, but what am I" fights between kids on a playground.

Sheesh... no reason to lock the thread, it's so boring it will ultimately fall by the weight of its own lameness.

[rarerookies]

How sweet of you. Thanks bro


Rarerookies.. i got you a Christmas present

http://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/1439167346/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291707774&sr=8-1

[canjond]

Have we hit 10,000 views yet?

[Big Six]

is for this thread to die...

Please Leon, put an end to this...

[Leon]

is for this thread to die...

Please Leon, put an end to this...

As a general rule I don't like to lock threads, censor, tell people what to say, protect advertisers or ban/suspend people etc.......Think of a moderator as a referee in a fight. They should be seen but not heard too much. If people will quit posting in this thread it will move off of the page...

[rarerookies]

Wow 10,000 views on this thread. I never thought it would reach this number. I just wanted to let everyone know that I have enjoyed this conversation. I really didn't intend to get into a moral or ethical debate with everyone but it has been fun. Really a lot of fun. And thank you Leon for letting me express my opinion about the subject.

I actually started signing up on forums to sell cards. I quickly found out that you guys weren't interested to say the least and I have respected the requests and no posted anymore reprints for sale you net54.

I'll have to agree with you guys on here. We are starting to beat a dead horse. You guys have your opinion and I have mine, neither one right or wrong.

But we need to move on. I think we all know where we stand on the issue. This is the first forum I have ever really posted responses on. Before that I didn't know what a "troll" was or a "bump" was. I was simply arguing my point but now its time to move on to the next latest and greatest.

Have a good one
derek


As a general rule I don't like to lock threads, censor, tell people what to say, protect advertisers or ban/suspend people etc.......Think of a moderator as a referee in a fight. They should be seen but not heard too much. If people will quit posting in this thread it will move off of the page...

[Jim VB]

You guys have your opinion and I have mine, neither one right or wrong.



Oh, no. Clearly, one opinion is right and yours is wrong. (At least in this case.) The point may have been debatable, until you started scratching off "Reprint" on the backs of the cards. At that point, the discussion should have ended.

[rarerookies]

Whine and cry all you want about it. Opinions are like a**holes. Everyone's got 'em Jim. You really brought nothing of substance to the thread anyway

"The next time you have a thought... let it go."
-Ron White-




Oh, no. Clearly, one opinion is right and yours is wrong. (At least in this case.) The point may have been debatable, until you started scratching off "Reprint" on the backs of the cards. At that point, the discussion should have ended.

[Ladder7]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qiYxK351CiQ/SX6UlQEgrJI/AAAAAAAAADg/FjFGlh-Sris/s320/loser.jpg

[rarerookies]

lol

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qiYxK351CiQ/SX6UlQEgrJI/AAAAAAAAADg/FjFGlh-Sris/s320/loser.jpg

[bbcard1]

Curtis manages the images of Ruth, Gehrig, Williams and several others. The cards may now be public domain, but several of the images, if reproduced without a license probably have opened up the publisher/creator to some pretty significant legal exposure.