View Full Version : The Uncatalogued Bridwell Card in Heritage 2010
M's_Fan
11-11-2010, 10:07 AM
Now that this auction is over, I'd like to ask what you guys think of this "uncatalogued" E-card. Do you think it was cut from a box of candy like Heritage suggests? Assuming this was true, was the candy box related to an issue that we know of? I mean, if the candy box was advertising ball players on it, you would think that cards also came with the candy, so what was that issue? Your thoughts please on this interesting card.
Circa 1909 E-Uncatalogued Al Bridwell SGC Authentic One of the great pleasures of collecting is finding the unknown. The offered card of New York Giants infielder Al Bridwell was unknown until now. His inclusion puts the window for this series in the 1908-1911 era. What exactly this series is continues to be a mystery but the thicker card stock suggests this series was found on the panel of a box of candy. The offered rarity has creasing and obvious corner and surface wear but after a century is the only one confirmed to exist. The SGC Authentic designation is due to the irregular hand-cut outer border. The card has not been altered in any manner, a fact confirmed in the SGC label. A type card collectors dream.
http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url[file:images/inetpub/newnames/300/5/9/6/3/5963384.jpg],continueonerror[true]&scale=size[450x2000],options[limit]&source=url[file:images/inetpub/webuse/no_image_available.gif],if[('global.source.error')]&sink=preservemd[true]
buymycards
11-11-2010, 10:19 AM
Could it have been cut from a notebook cover? I once had a circa 1910 notebook with several T206 like cards on the front and back cover. (I'm still kicking myself for selling it to Steve Verkman).
Rick
I call em "1910 Blue Caption"
Dont know where they are from, But Ive seen 5-6 of them or so.
Someone here has the Honus Wagner from same set...
http://centuryoldcards.com/images/1910bluecapmccormick.jpg
http://centuryoldcards.com/images/1910bluecapohara.jpg
4815162342
11-11-2010, 01:32 PM
Here's a thread from last year. These neat cards stuck out in my mind.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=114211
Abravefan11
11-11-2010, 01:34 PM
I was posting the same time as Daryl and his link answered my question.
Tim, the picture of the Wagner is in the old Net54 link above.
Personally, I believe it was a candy card set that didn't get issued, or is very, very scarce and uncataloged. They could have come from a box or a notebook cover but that is not my current thinking. I own the first one I ever saw from this set, the McCormick above, and got it from Ron Vitro at a National, several years ago. To me, they look too much like the Blanke Wenneker E104-IIIs to think they are not an unissued set. It will be neat if we ever find out where they really came from. This kind of stuff is what makes the hobby so interesting to me. Regards
I believe I have seen two different examples of the Wagner from this set.
Jim
I believe I have seen two different examples of the Wagner from this set.
Jim
Correct. There are 2 Wagners known from the set...both are the same pose.
M's_Fan
11-12-2010, 11:50 AM
here is the wagner from that set, if anyone is curious:
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/1826/wagner.jpg
M's_Fan
11-12-2010, 11:50 AM
There are a couple of things we know about these cards that I think are very revealing:
Almost all of the known examples (arguably with the exception of the O'Hara example) are cut in a very uneven manner that is consistent with hand-cut cards
the white borders are much wider than other cards of the period
the stock is thicker than other cards of the period
I'm confident they were hand cut, which means that this was either a strip card set with very wide borders in between the cards, or they were hand cut from a box or some type of advertisement.
canjond
11-12-2010, 12:10 PM
Maybe this was discussed before but they all almost look like they are 3d cards to me. Even the colors are typically 3d colors. Anyone have a pair of glasses?
T206Collector
11-12-2010, 03:18 PM
Every one other than Wagner looks copied from T206.... that has to mean something, if only to T206 collectors.
copied artwork from T206...
It means its unlikely they are from 1909 as the slab says
Thats why Ive called them 1910 :)
I have seen a couple others but lost the images and info many computers ago :(
I believe they were T206 poses too, the Wagner is the only different one Ive seen and is probably because the artist couldnt get a hold of a T206 Wagner to copy... for obvious reasons :)
PS. for those following these cards, the Ohara was heavily damaged when the owner hired an "expert" to remove it from the backing it was glued to. It suffered major surface damage (flaking). I dont know the facts of how he tried to remove the card but you should never soak a piece of cardboard in water for a long time. Ive soaked many a card and never for more than a couple minutes, and many far less time.... Ive seen some recommend soaking them overnight ......."WTF!!"
Im curious, what did the SGC-A Bridwell sell for???
I have never seen one of these sell yet, so dont know what type of value they have. I offered a couple hundred for the OHara when it was still glued, but the offer was declined. Then I was just helping the owner find info on it. Havent talked to him in over a year and dont know where the OHara is now.
Anthony S.
11-12-2010, 04:58 PM
$1673 (including buyers premium)
From Old Cardboards most recent email newsletter:
2. New Player Discovered for Obscure "Blue Caption" Set
The card of N. Y. Giants short stop Al Bridwell has been discovered from a set that is not widely known among even the most seasoned vintage collectors.
The Bridwell card along with another from the set featuring Giants teammate Moose McCormick sold earlier this month in an auction held by Heritage Auctions. The Bridwell card is unique and not previously known to the hobby; another example of the McCormick card from the set has been previously reported.
Counting the Bridwell card, there are still only four known players represented in the set checklist.
The cards are similar in size and format with other candy and tobacco cards of the period. With their captions printed in blue ink, the cards are remarkably similar to cards from the E104 Nadja Caramel set produced in 1910. Important differences, however, distinguish the cards from this set, sometimes referred to as "Blue Captions" for obvious reasons.
While the E104 Nadja cards all feature chest-up poses, the few known examples of the "Blue Captions" set (except for Bridwell) feature action poses. In addition, the captions on the "Blue Captions" cards are all printed using upper/lower case lettering, while the Nadja cards are printed in all upper case letters. The captions on cards in both sets include the player last name and team.
The sponsor and method of distribution for the "Blue Caption" cards remains unknown. They are printed on thick card stock, indicating they may have been cut from a candy box or possibly from a notebook cover.
The two examples in the Heritage auctions were graded by SGC and designated as "E-UNC" cards, suggesting they were distributed by an early gum or candy manufacturer. From the few examples known today, however, we can only speculate now as to their origins. All known examples have blank backs.
Counting this recent discovery, only six examples from the Blue Caption set (representing four different players) have been reported by today's collectors. The two other players are Giants center fielder Bill O'Hara and Pittsburg's famous short stop Honus Wagner--the only Hall of Fame player known to the set. Two of Wagner's cards have been reported.
Based on the team affiliations of the four known players, it appears that the cards were produced in 1909. All four played for the teams named on the cards in 1909. O'Hara only played for the Giants for one year (1909), and neither he nor McCormick were on the Giants roster in 1910.
The Bridwell card sold in the recent Heritage auction for $1,673 (including buyer's premium); the McCormick card sold for $717.
A "Blue Caption" Set Profile, including a checklist and gallery of all known cards, has been added to the Old Cardboard website.
Thanks Anthony, wow I was off a bit on value.... I was thinking $300 or so :)
Funny how some of these uncataloged cards jump in value while others just as rare stay in the low hundreds....
I see now why they say 1909, thanks for the info, aloha
Exhibitman
11-14-2010, 07:27 AM
Just a nit to pick here--and not w/the posts here--but shouldn't any uncatalogued anonymous hand-cut card be given a W designation until we can be certain it is associated with a confection? IMO the "E" on these cards came about because the first submitters were eager to get in on the E card price bubble.
Just a nit to pick here--and not w/the posts here--but shouldn't any uncatalogued anonymous hand-cut card be given a W designation until we can be certain it is associated with a confection? IMO the "E" on these cards came about because the first submitters were eager to get in on the E card price bubble.
I don't think so. Personally, I think they resemble candy cards so much I am comfortable giving them E-Unc, until proven otherwise. There are several examples of this already (which are known).....E-Unc Orange Borders, E-Unc J=K, E-Unc Leader Novelty etc...etc... What I don't recall are cards that look very similar to these being "W-Unc"....As for riding a value bubble based on the designation, it's possible, but there are very valuable W cards too. It's a good discussion and debate.
barrysloate
11-14-2010, 09:49 AM
One of the things that strikes me about these cards is their very poor quality. It seems surprising that a company would go to the trouble of making them utilizing such awful artwork. I would even go so far as to say kids would have hated these and opted to collect something else.
One of the things that strikes me about these cards is their very poor quality. It seems surprising that a company would go to the trouble of making them utilizing such awful artwork. I would even go so far as to say kids would have hated these and opted to collect something else.
Hey Barry,
I am not sure they are any more crude than some other series we know of today. It's amazing that some of them exist at all, as E-Unc or anything else. These All-Star Candy, E-Uncs, are so ugly they have a certain allure to them. :o
barrysloate
11-14-2010, 01:44 PM
Leon- I was thinking of some other sets that incorporated crude artwork, and while the All-Star candy is not a great looking set, the cards were nicely produced with clear pictures and good colors. Their problem was the generic nature of the images. Look at the McCormick in comparison. It looks like it was drawn by someone without any real artistic skills. But that may be what makes them interesting.
Here's the other Wagner. Does anyone know if this "set" is to be cataloged in the new Standard Catalog? It was rumored to be getting listed. Thanks for any info. on these.