View Full Version : Honus- Second to NUN
Yankeefan51
11-05-2010, 08:58 AM
Nuns sell Honus Wagner card for $262,000
AP – FILE - This undated photo provided by Heritage Auctions shows a rare century-old T206 Honus Wagner baseball
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Slideshow:Rare Honus Wagner Baseball Card
By BEN NUCKOLS, Associated Press – 47 mins ago
BALTIMORE – A rare Honus Wagner baseball card that was bequeathed to an order of Roman Catholic nuns has sold at auction for $262,000.
The Baltimore-based School Sisters of Notre Dame put the card up for sale after inheriting it from the brother of a deceased nun. The sale price exceeded the expectations of auctioneers at Dallas-based Heritage Auction Galleries.
The nuns will receive $220,000 from the sale. The total sale price includes a 19.5 percent buyer's premium. Sister Virginia Muller, who was entrusted with the card, says the proceeds will go to the order's ministries in more than 30 countries around the world.
Collector and card shop owner Doug Walton bought the card.
About 60 of the T206 Honus Wagner cards, produced between 1909 and 1911, are known to exist.
oldjudge
11-05-2010, 10:52 AM
The card shop business must be good.
M's_Fan
11-05-2010, 11:41 AM
I can only say that for some, the auction shop business is VERY good ($42k commission to Heritage).
autograf
11-05-2010, 12:14 PM
It appears his card shop business is better than his judgement......though I guess 85% of a Wagner is better than my 0%...........
doug.goodman
11-05-2010, 04:41 PM
Heritage should give their commission to the nuns.
Doug
kylebicking
11-05-2010, 05:07 PM
I'm with Doug. I was shocked that Heritage took a commission on that item. They got more than enough with the premium and the free PR.
-Kyle
autograf
11-05-2010, 05:22 PM
Thought the same thing.....plus a lot of free pub.....
M's_Fan
11-06-2010, 04:00 AM
In the age of the internet and information there is no reason why a seller should have a $42k cut out of that sale. I wonder if someone tried to auction off a Wag on Net54 what it would go for. Seems like there could be a way for people with high-dollar cards to sell without forking over the price of a Mercedes Benz just for someone to post it on their website. Especially when the publicity alone from that card increases web traffic and bids on other lots by a ton.
Do all auction houses take a full commission on Wagner and other high profile cards? I seem to remember some giving substantial discounts for the publicity.
thekingofclout
11-06-2010, 04:29 AM
The card shop business must be good.
My thoughts exactly!
GaryPassamonte
11-06-2010, 04:57 AM
In all fairness, the $42,900 was a buyer's premium and not a seller's fee. Still a nice day's work.
ebrehm
11-06-2010, 09:31 AM
Actually the buyer's premium is part of the sales commission. It is a portion of the total sales price (hammer + BP) that is retained by the seller.
Actually the buyer's premium is part of the sales commission. It is a portion of the total sales price (hammer + BP) that is retained by the seller.
If you are speaking of the venue that is selling the card as "retained by the seller" then that is correct. Most times the BP is retained by the person or company that is doing the actual selling, not the consignor. Not sure if that is what you meant. regards
ebrehm
11-06-2010, 10:30 AM
Yes, that is what I meant. The total sales commission retained by an auction house is the seller's fee (if any) plus the buyer's premium. Both are calculated as a percentage of the hammer price. The buyer pays the hammer price plus the buyer's premium. The seller keeps the buyer's premium and the seller's fee (if any). The consignor receives the hammer price less the seller's fee (if any).
In some cases -- usually on high value high visibility items -- the house will not only charge a zero seller's fee, but also offer to share a portion of the buyer's premium with the consignor -- this is sometimes referred to as a "negative" seller's fee.
GaryPassamonte
11-06-2010, 01:59 PM
In this case the full hammer price of $220000. was received by the consigner. It appears there was no direct seller's fee. The $42900. was the BP which went to Heritage. Total-$262900.
doug.goodman
11-06-2010, 08:14 PM
No matter where / who it comes from, Heritage should give their commission to the nuns, and they should do it quick, while the national press still cares about the story. But, even when the press is over, they should still do it.
Doug
egbeachley
11-06-2010, 09:07 PM
I think they did give the commission to the nuns - they charged them 0%. Not to mention that the nuns got over $100K extra value from Heritage's publicity machine.
ebrehm
11-07-2010, 07:25 AM
No, they charged the nuns 16.3%. The buyer paid $262,900, Heritage kept $42,900, and the consignor (nuns) got $220,000. The sales commission rate was thus 42,900/262,900 = .163. Why is there so much confusion over this.
Bilko G
11-07-2010, 08:45 AM
Why is there so much confusion over this.
because many people don't consider the buyers premium as a sales commission.
calvindog
11-07-2010, 09:07 AM
Why not? The "buyer's premium" goes to the seller. What else would one consider it?
ebrehm
11-07-2010, 09:09 AM
because many people don't consider the buyers premium as a sales commission.
I guess that's it -- and some auction houses try to exploit that misconception. "We offer a 0% seller's fee, so it won't cost you anything to consign your cards!" What a bunch of hooey. The buyer's premium is a sales commission, pure and simple. Unless of course buyers don't consider the buyer's premium part of the sales price, which is absurd.
Perhaps my opinion will be unpopular, but I do not see any obligation, moral or otherwise for Heritage to auction that card for free because it was consigned by some nuns to support their missionary work. Heritage is a for-profit auction house, not a charity. I would assume the principals and most who work at Heritage give to a variety of charities. Perhaps this nun's mission is not on the top of their list. I think they did very well by them and gave them a good consignment rate. They also got a lot of press for them (and visa versa). If the folks at Heritage wanted to do it for free and issue a press release about their generous deed, then that would be wonderful. But I do not think any less of them for not doing it.
JimB
Bilko G
11-07-2010, 10:21 PM
I guess that's it -- and some auction houses try to exploit that misconception. "We offer a 0% seller's fee, so it won't cost you anything to consign your cards!" What a bunch of hooey. The buyer's premium is a sales commission, pure and simple. Unless of course buyers don't consider the buyer's premium part of the sales price, which is absurd.
oh i totally agree with you, but some people do fall for the "We offer a 0% seller's fee, so it won't cost you anything to consign your cards!"
doug.goodman
11-07-2010, 11:10 PM
I do not see any obligation, moral or otherwise for Heritage to auction that card for free because it was consigned by some nuns to support their missionary work
I agree.
But, they should still donate their cut to the nuns.
Doug
I agree.
But, they should still donate their cut to the nuns.
Doug
Fair enough. But would you feel the same way if it was a group of Muslim missionaries that were auctioning it to start a Mosque or community center, say in New York. How about if the money was going to be donated to building a Buddhist monastery? My point is that not all charities are no-brainer things that everybody would necessarily want to support.
JimB
Perhaps my opinion will be unpopular, but I do not see any obligation, moral or otherwise for Heritage to auction that card for free because it was consigned by some nuns to support their missionary work. Heritage is a for-profit auction house, not a charity. I would assume the principals and most who work at Heritage give to a variety of charities. Perhaps this nun's mission is not on the top of their list. I think they did very well by them and gave them a good consignment rate. They also got a lot of press for them (and visa versa). If the folks at Heritage wanted to do it for free and issue a press release about their generous deed, then that would be wonderful. But I do not think any less of them for not doing it.
JimB
I agree with this, as well.