How To Tell If N172 Is Trimmed/Skinned/etc...?

[btcarfagno]

Just acquired 31 OJ's but have pretty much zero experience with them. I believe many are supposed to have issues, but some may not and I have no clue how to figure out which ones might be trimmed and which may not, how to spot a skinned card, etc. Were the cards made in different sizes? Please help an OJ novice who is looking to sell what he has received..but wants to make sure a fair price is asked.

Thanks for any help,

Tom C

[oldjudge]

There is quite a bit of size variation in N172s. It will be difficult for a novice to tell if the cards have been rebacked. A good rebacking job is not easily determined by experienced collectors. I would suggest that you bring the cards to a major show and have a dealer familiar with 19th century material take a look at them. If you want to take a drive to Fairfield County, CT I will take a look for you.

[btcarfagno]

So many variations...sizes...ugh.

Just as an example...looking on VCP I see Myers of Indianapolis...the image is exactly the same as the one I have in my hand...except the writing on my card is script and under the photo whereas it is block letters and in the photo on the VCP listed card.

Is there any way to know what I have? Ugh again.

Tom C

[Anthony S.]

Tom,

Note the design differences (ie the wording at the bottom of each card):

1887 Richardson

1888 Ryan

1889 Darling

And if you haven't purchased the Old Judge book that Jay, Joe, and Richard put together, by all means do so. Can't recommend it highly enough.

[E93]

Derek Grady (SGC's head grader) pointed something out to me at the National a few years ago after rejecting a PSA graded N172 for crossover. Apparently a thin layer of paper had been removed, presumably to get rid of glue or pencil markings. It was a fantastic job and did not have any of the obvious signs of rougher skinning. Under a loupe however, non-skinned N172s have a light shimmer to them on the blank backs when compared with skinned examples. It is something that is hard to explain and has to be seen, but if you have multiple examples of skinned and non-skinned N172s and compare them under a loupe, it will be clear.
JimB

[prewarsports]

Jim

What you are saying is correct, but some of the earlier Old Judges dont have the thin layer of paper on the back and are thicker than regular cards. I wonder if they would shimmer the same way.

The way I always try to tell is to look at the pitting on the edges (I think they are called striations or something like that). They should have a rough cut under magnification. I cant really think of how to explain it except that it almost looks like a broken cracker or something with little valleys. If the edges of an Old Judge are smooth, you are probably looking at one that is trimmed or rebacked.

As has been said before though, Old Judges have been rebacked for preservation for probably 50+ years with no intention to deceive but to protect the brittle photos from breaking.

I would suggest having Jay or someone else who lives near you and knows a thing or two about Old Judges taking a quick look at them.