Mantle/GAI/Burczyk/Forgeries/TT2

[thetruthisoutthere]

I'd like to respectfully respond to member "TATSR." First of all, I'd rather listen to an honest person that is maybe obnoxious and "lacking communication skills" than a smooth-talking crook. Second, I am "tomtresh2." I'm the person that's been doing those videos for two years now exposing the garbage in the hobby. And long before I was exposing that garbage on video, I was writing for approximately 10-12 blogs about forgeries in the hobby. I don't mind the criticisms as it comes with the territory. And I've always stated on video that I am more than willing to embarrass myself in order to expose the garbage in the hobby because it's the right thing to do. Even if I didn't have one supporter of my videos I would continue to do them because I want those that distribute and sell that garbage to know that there are people watching them. And yes, I probably do lack "certain communication skills" but as a stutterer all my life doing these videos aren't always easy, but doing the videos has been very therapeutic for me on a personal level. How can a true buyer/seller/collector in the hobby sit by idly without being furious about what is going on in the hobby. I can't, and that's why I do the videos despite the threats and personal attacks. I'd like to respectfully ask Mr. Tatsr, what is his contribution in the war against sellers and distributors of forgeries? I also want to state, and I've always said, that my videos are not meant to be educational, they are there to expose those that are ruining and diluting the hobby with garbage. Maybe you, Mr. Tatsr, can begin producing educational videos on autographs as I would love to watch them. But that's not for me. I tried educating buyers for years about autographs and they don't want to listen. Believe me, I tried, Mr. Tatsr.

[GrayGhost]

I enjoy your videos and the information I get from them, about the forgers. its helped me turn stuff in on ebay at times too. Thanks for doing them, and keep it up. All the help the hobby can use, it should take, without personal attacks by some people.

[perezfan]

Yes- many thanks for the work you do, tomtresh2! Anybody who's attacking you either has his priorites messed up or is an owner/seller of bogus material. I don't know how anyone could dispute or find fault with your "mission".

Keep fighting the good fight.... It is much appreciated!

Mark

[Bilko G]

where can we watch your videos at thetruthisoutthere?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Thank you guys, I always appreciate the support. I also wanted to mention that I don't do the videos to win any popularity contest; I do them because "it's about time that we started letting the distributors and sellers of forgeries know that they are being watched and that their intimidation tactics will not scare us." Below are links to my two most recent videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0CFwqehYnY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Bgm5TJkGpU

[Chris Counts]

One of the reasons I like collecting off-grade oddball stuff (and avoid high-grade slabbed cards and autographs in general) is because I don't have to deal with very many scoundrels. It's so clear to me that some of the big names and well-known companies in the hobby have engaged in extensive fraud for profit. Personally, I don't have the stomach or the will to go after these guys myself, but I have great respect for anyone who does. The only surprise to me is how most of these guys have avoided prosecution or incarceration. Keep up the good work and give 'em hell!

[Fuddjcal]

You know I'm a follower since day 1. I have been more focused on your plight now you've taken it "Global" with the all the questionable Mantle GAI, Burczyk and of course the Stat/TTA garbage. Some samples of the forgeries below.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Autographed-Mickey-Mantle-Up-Close-8x10-w-Burczyk-COA-/180571585341?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0ae7bb3d

http://cgi.ebay.com/MICKEY-MANTLE-SIGNED-8X10-COLOR-RON-LEWIS-PORTRAIT-GAI-/350402431047?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51959cc847


The photos of these fakes are always the same tired poses with the most horrible of signature in the worst possible place. The one thing that the backers of these fakes fail to take into account is that Mantle was an artist with his signature, not a hack. Mantle figured if someone was paying for his signature, he'd give them a good one, right ON the "perfect spot" too for the particular photo he was signing. Besides the phony Burczyk version signature being off in 4 different points (that I can see, time and time again & I'm NO EXPERT), they are frequently in a bad spot on the photo as well or don't take up the entire "sweet spot" of the photo, like in the 4authentic photos I have had signed in person in the late 80's and early 90's and the 6 others I've purchased since..... these are all penned perfectly. They are all in person, JSA, PSA and UDA.

This fish tale going around about Mantle signing these for Scoreboard and thinking Burczyk was a "great guy" are pretty funny. Also, "JSA & PSA trying to control the market" by not certifying this version. Please elaborate about this story and how Greer Johnson was involved. Did that skank have anything to do with these. Did Mantle actually claim that he penned these... in court? What about Dimaggio not being able to tell his real signature on a ball from fakes in court? Does that make those fakes real? I'm confused. All I know is that this Bursack, GAI, STAT breed of Mantle, I'm not buying. They look NOTHING like the ones I had done in person and no where near the PSA, UD, or JSA version that they are certifying as Authentic.

Keep up the Videos. I love the passion and the message, stutter or not.:) I especially love the part of the video when you show the obvious forgery and say "I don't know what that is". Thanks Fonz, AAAAHHHHHEEEEEEEE

[thetruthisoutthere]

I've seen those horrid Mantle autographs, thousands certed by the now-defunct GAI with Mike Baker's signature on the certs. You're absolutely correct, Fuddjcal, about "The Mick" when he signed. He always made sure when signing a photograph that his entire name was visible and his autograph will always be a work of art. Those ugly Mantle autographs "authenticated (and I use that word loosely)" by GAI and Burczyk aren't even close. "The Mick" passed away on Aug. 13th, 1995 and all of a sudden tens of thousands of those horrid Mantle signatures flood the market out of nowhere well over a decade after "The Mick" passed away. The only reason that some of the GAI certed garbage brings more money than the Burczyk crap is because buyers who know nothing about autographs are trusting Ebay that GAI is a prequalified authenticator. You have to understand that at least 80% of those that buy and sell autographs have no idea what they are doing. Here's a simple analogy. I love US Coins. But I don't know raw coins well enough to know whether a coin has been cleaned, modified, etc. So I don't buy raw coins. Simple common sense. I always say "Look at the autograph, not the COA."

[J.McMurry]

"Please elaborate about this story and how Greer Johnson was involved. Did that skank have anything to do with these. "

LOL. now that was funny.:D


keep up the good work TT2

[FUBAR]

Hi Tom

You may recognize me as one of your followers as well. I have also seen, just recently, that some idiot in a too small t-shirt, is calling you out because he may or may not own more autos then you. He fully supports Roach's corner and scoreboard, which tells me enough about his character. He may have a lot of money to buy nice things, but that doesn't make you educated, just rich!

I also seen another fool who claims PSA and JSA don't know anything about auto's. Just do not understand these guys.

Keep up the good work and hopefully people will soon start to realize how bad the collecting world is in terms of forgeries and who you can and cannot trust.

[sports-rings]

Tom,

I appreciate all your work and for having the guts to "put it on the line" and do something. I wish others in our hobby would follow your lead.

Please keep up the great work and don't let anyone intimidate you or get you down!

[3and2]

Tom, keep up the good work. You're our Eliot Ness patrolling our hobby. Much appreciated!

[thetruthisoutthere]

Tom, keep up the good work. You're our Eliot Ness patrolling our hobby. Much appreciated!
I like that!!! Thank you. Although I have to admit Robert Stack was my favorite Eliot Ness as opposed to the real one. Just kidding. Also, thank you. Fubar (one of my first viewers along with Sports-Rings) and Sports-Rings. Remember, the videos aren't about me, they are about exposing the garbage that is ruining and diluting the hobby, and how do we reach those that have no idea what they are buying. There's this misconception that just because an autograph is on Ebay that it must be authentic, and we all know that nothing could be further from the truth. Ebay does not go out its way to remove forgeries; there is too much money to be made from forgeries. I wonder how many people are aware that there is a "banned list" of COAs on the Ebay website? Ebay does not go out of its way to show that list. I won't go on my usual rant but you get the message.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Coach's Corner Sports Auctions, LLC....Donald Frangipani.....Forensic Document Services....Hollywood Dreams.....J. DiMaggio Co/J. DiMaggio Company....Legends Sports Memorabilia...Nathan's Autographs/N.E. Autographs.....Pro Sports/Pro Sports Memorabilia....Robert Prouty.....R.R.'s Sports Cards & Collectibles....SCAA/Front Page Art/Angelo Marino.....Slamdunk Sportscards & Memorabilia....Sports Alley Memorabilia.....Sports Management Group.....Stan's Sports/Stans Sports Memorabilia.....STAT Authentic/Stevens Taylor Authentication Team......Universal Memorabilia.....XMI Authentications.....USA Authentics.....Blank COAs and LOAs.....COAs and LOAs as stand-alone items....COAs and LOAs from anyone listed on the FBI's Operation Bullpen Website...

I also want to add that Ebay doesn't always abide by its own regulations as I have seen numerous auctions with COAs from Stat Authentic and Forensic Document Services run to duration.

[brickyardkennedy]

Just another "thumbs-up", for your great and too often thankless, work, Tom!

[thetruthisoutthere]

One correction on that banned list from above. It should read "Blank COAs" not "Black." Typo on my part. I already edited the above "Banned List." Excuse this comment.

[FUBAR]

Tom, i must admit , it was Fuddjcal who got me to go view your videos! sometimes i do look at some of the sigs and wonder wtf you are talking about because i dont know the sigs well enough....!

luckily i have only bought autos from members here and they are well respected guys and they all look good when i compared them to JSA.

[gnaz01]

TT2, I too am a subscriber to your YouTube page, and must say I laugh a bunch when you talk about the morons at the Roaches, and lest we not forget Chris "I never saw An Autograph I didn't Like" Morales :D:D

Keep it up, your the best!!!!!!

[jester]

As a new member to this board, thanks for your good work. I am fairly new to this collecting of baseball memorabilia but I did do research and struck off GAI as a authenticator as I did not like look of things they did. For sure I will be following your videos in the future.

[tinkereversandme]

The only problem are the smart people are watching your videos for entertainment and know better. It's the dumb ones you have to locate. The dumb ones are probably the ones who give you fits as they are too dumb to realize that they own or have been buying forgeries or are somehow involved in the process of distributing them. They are entertaining for sure and I enjoy them. I just wish it would lead to the shame of certain formentioned companies and individuals realizing that they are living dishonest lives and closing up shop. But mostly they get new ebay ID's or continue operations because the money is too easy for them and the laws are too lacksadasical.
Great work anyways TT2!

Regards,

Larry

[thetruthisoutthere]

You're absolutely correct, Larry. The majority of people who watch my videos know autographs and have common sense, although there are "newbies" that do watch my videos and hopefully tell others about them. The thing is, if I quit, the bad guys win and I will never give them that satisfaction. I want them to know that we will never stop watching what they do and that they cannot remain "anonymous" and hide behind Ebay's "protection."

[jimm]

Been a longtime since I collected autos, had no idea things were this tuff out there, wonder if what I have is legit (have had most 20 plus years) glad I don't collect them any more to be honest

[TATSR]

I only stop in once in a while, so I didn't know I inspired a new thread by tt2 himself. I'll just say that my post wasn't any kind of "personal attack." All I said was that I don't find your videos convincing. The first 10 or so I watched were entertaining, but eventually it's like watching pro-wrestling. I know how it's going to end and there will be lots of shouting before that. So what's the point of watching? By the way I do buy/sell autographs. You can see what I have to offer on ebay under my id: timmermant (How was that for a surreptitious plug?).

TATSR

[thetruthisoutthere]

My videos aren't meant to be "convincing," they are meant to expose those that sell that crap. There is no "convincing" necessary because the garbage I expose is obviously bad to those who know autographs.

[esd10]

this reminds me of a show on court tv about a seller from the late 90's that was selling a bunch of ruth,mantle autos and he was busted by the feds with a bunch i mean a bunch of fakes and fludded the market already. there should be bigger penaltys for forging and dupping the public and killing the confidence of collectors with fake items. these company should be taken to jail along with the forgers. Its sad that you cant even feal confident about what you are buying thats why i dont buy autos from ebay without that jsa or simons coa. keep up the good fight im behind you 100% on this issue

[GrayGhost]

Agreed, but had a little problem with some of your spelling:p

[Fuddjcal]

what really funny is the prices these poor unsuspecting sellers (???) are asking. This one is asking 899.00 for a terrible 8 x10 forgery. It just goes from bad to worse everyday on the dock of the E-bay. :D

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200534660106

[RichardSimon]

Fuddj - these autograph sellers, they are not autograph dealers, buy these autographs on non ebay auction sites, along with their very cheap jewelry, perfume, t-shirts, watches and other items that they think they can make a profit on. The ads on these sites say Mantle autograph photo, authenticated by bird-sick or whoever the authenticator flavor of the day is, comparable value $499.99. All the items on these sites are advertised this way. They buy the autograph for $19-$29 or so, thinking they can get a bargain and make a profit. Too bad for them. They then learn the hard way. The really upsetting thing is that I know of at least two disabled veterans who have been duped this way.

[Exhibitman]

Nice work.

Of course, anyone buying a Babe Ruth autographed ball for $300 is an idiot of the purest, most gullible sort.

I've been burned a few times, fortunately not on anything expensive (the worst was a George Harrison cut about 20 years ago). I will not buy a significant autograph absent either a 100% legit source (like The Topps Valut--I figure their contracts were signed by the athletes in question), a certified card product like Topps Co-Signers, or a JSA or PSA/DNA certed item. I completely agree that the vast majority of the materials on Ebay are forgeries. I spent the better part of a decade looking for a legit Sean Connery autograph (finally landed a PSA/DNA certed 1960s vintage signed PC) and run searches on Ebay every so often just for a laugh at all the trash out there purportedly signed by Connery.

[Fuddjcal]

I posted this on another site and I thought it would be nice to post this here as well to see if anybody has anything to add to the story...

Here's the best of the best of the fish stories from an E-bayer that he sent me to "set the record straight". I have been very vocal in this fight on blogs and to e-bay security, trying to remove all this from E-bay and I can tell you, it ain't going to happen. New collectors are going to find out the hard way. Here's the story as it was told to me

He states that he "has a letter from Mantle and his attorney, Roy True and that Mantle himself concurred with burczyks findings. I know this because I have the letter, I sat with Mantle, I watched him sign over 200,000 items, that's right 200,000. I do love your passion and I would never say that you are being vindictive. I realize that you feel strongly about your views, but I have verifiable court documents to prove what I'm telling you. so even if you disagree with the findings of Burczyk, remember Mantle did not and it was I who fought scoreboard and it was I who beat them, and it was I who sat with Mantle at over 200 signings over my 31 plus years in this buisness. oh yes it was I who produced all the product for home shopping, qvc, j.c. penney's etc.,etc., etc.. so please forgive me if i disagree with you. but i do respect your opinion. by the way Mantle loved Burczyk when he met him. respectfully yours, tony p."
In the back of my mind, I do remember something to this effect coming to light in the late 80's, early 90's about Dimaggio having to go to court in a forgery case and he couldn't pick his signature out from the fakes. Then there is this Greer Johnson chick who actually helped Mantle books shows and make what the man had coming to him. I think there was a case of some sort, where she was accused of forging or having some Mantle stuff forged? Could this be the stuff? Maybe Mantle said they were his to protect Skank Johnson? Anyway, does anyone think that Tony P. is Tony Podsada of My Favorite Players? Most of their stuff, was authetic, though most of the Mantle's have always been suspect.

Do any of you long time collectors know this story, know Tony P?:confused:

Personally, I still don't like everyone of those Birdsick items. I wonder if Dimaggio liked Birdsick, What about Ted? Did Birdsick and Ted hunt & fish together?:rolleyes:

There is also some talk about the photos all being copies of prints anyway, then pasted with the STAT. GAI and Birdsick cert. That make sense, because if the signature was a photo copy, it would'nt fade. Have you ever seen a faded Birdsick piece, I haven't. I left one out in the sun for 6 months and the signature didn't fade.:D

Personally, I think Tony P. is an honest guy. The one thing that I noticed by his e-bay buying habits is that he obviously know the real Mantle from the fakes. He is not buying Birdsicks and Stats and GAi Mantles. he is spending quite a bit of $$$ on the real thing .

[Fuddjcal]

http://cgi.ebay.com/MICKEY-MANTLE-SIGNED-AUTOGRAPHED-PHOTO-SCOREBOARD-COA-/200541802222?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb1390eee

Here's a copy of the Contract that Mantle signed with Scoreboard. The photo copy this seller has looks like a Genuine Mantle signature while the item he is selling does not appear authentic. Let's call it what it is,:eek: Actually fake as hell.

Is this the contract that people are talking about? A copy of this contract is common among fake Mantle ball sellers with STAT Authentication, now it's showing up on pictures?

[tinkereversandme]

Let me get this correct...before six months ago, nobody had ever heard of Burcyk and now the hobby is flooded with these photos and these photos appear everywhere and the prices that they get is little. Was there a stash somewhere?

Many of these photos come with both Scoreboard cert and a Burcyk cert and I had purchased from QVC and I never got a Burcyk cert with anything I bought.

I think something is very off here and if someone put their detective hat on, could actually find out the truths, essentially by contacting Mantle's old agent, the man who ran Scoreboard (was it Ken Golden?) and of course the location of Burcyk himself. He is alive, right? Where is he?

Larry

[thetruthisoutthere]

Interesting that you mentioned purchasing from QVC; don't forget those Home Shopping Channels got duped into purchasing approximately $750,000 in forgeries that was eventually sold to consumers. I still see a ton of those "500 Homerun Club" forgeries that are still all over Ebay and a ton of Mantle forgeries.

[Ladder7]

TT2, Your doctor called. You've got to ease back on the caffeine.

Seriously, Great, hard work youre doing.

And don't be discouraged by the petty whiners on these boards. It's just a few naive collector wannabes, that were stuck with fakes and trying to save face. Steve

[chaddurbin]

i enjoyed the vids TT, more info and transparency is always good. thank you for the effort.

now you're making me question my psa/dna ted williams auto :confused:

[Fuddjcal]

I just want to keep this thread out here, so other knumbskulls like me can see it....

Here's another E-Bay Big Shifter, trying to get rich all at once.:eek:

GEAR DOWN BIG SHIFTER!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120651820695&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:US:1123

I love this "Up Close" as they call it. When ever you see Mantle posing in this shot, the minute you see that toothy grin :D, run for the exits! I have yet to see a real signature on this toothy grin photo. Everythings Birdchick, AAU (nice big fake presence on e-bay recently), Morales (also fakes abundantly available on e-bay..if you hurry. Act now), STAT or...cheater e-bay f'ers love to advertise "with COA" or w/ "Forensic COA" with-out mentioning the name.

It is a war out there. Make sure on Thanksgiving day, you give thanks to Birdsick for making it all possible.

GOBBLE GOBBLE

[RichardSimon]

This ad really is funny.
It states that the MSRP is $1800 and the ad is offering this Mantle for $895.
First of all, the seller is a moron, all the Birdsick-Mantle pics that do sell on ebay sell for below $100.
And second of all, the phrase MSRP is hysterically funny. The manufacturer of these "autographed" photos is suggesting that the retail price is $1800. A manufactured autographed photo,,, very well phrased, draw your own conclusions. Ya' gotta love the term manufactured.

[Fuddjcal]

I'm only posting the cream of the crop for you Richard.:) I am only here to amuse you.:D

Here's another amusing fact. This beautiful $1,800 MSRP sold at $2.25 on e-bay. Then, when they relisted it at, they got negged.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=110612856941&si=3S3akOBqH1WFdBocvnbL8eM%252B8wE%253D&viewitem=

Thanksgiving Tip#2.... When you see Mickey "At the Plate", please jump into a cold shower and step away from the computer.

[RichardSimon]

Fuddj, I can see your $2.25 Mantle and raise you $1.00 Mantle's and Williams' on some of the non ebay sites. I have seen Mantle and Williams photos go for $1, yes one buck.
But they scam you on shipping :eek::D:rolleyes:, $13 per photo to ship and no combined shipping.

[Fuddjcal]

For the Holidays, you know the mental midgets will be out. Here's a little segment I like to call MORON OF THE MONTH! Here's a guy who takes the Birdsick scam a bit further by clarifying the "Compare AT" Value.:D Let's meet E-bay Seller qualityservicecounts.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180594239432

Thanks so much for the clarification qualityservicedummy, but could you kindly tell us who the COA is from? Well let's see, you Uncle Miltyed the Always at Auction Ad and all they do is sell these as Birdsick Forgeries. Could your COA be from Dr. Birdsick?

Lets all ad "The Portrait" to the Mickey Mantle items to avoid on E-bay.

Let's Review Fudd's Tips for the week:

Tip #1-AVOID "Up Close" as they call it. When ever you see Mantle posing in this shot, the minute you see that toothy grin , run for the exits! I have yet to see a real signature on this toothy grin photo.

Tip#2.... AVOID. When you see Mickey "At the Plate", please jump into a cold shower and step away from the computer.

TIP #3 If you see Drew Max-AAU on any autographed item... RUN LIKE RABBIT with Thorn in Paw, very fast.

TIP #4 Please AVOID any Mantle Ad that includes: “Favorite Portrait”- this is the highly sought after Gallo shot with the most mangled of all butcherings of Mantle's Signature...Disgusting.

TIP#5 PLEASE AVOID any Mantle, Dimaggio or Williams Ad that includes the other catchy phrases :"Breaking Babe Ruth’s World Series Record ", "3 in 1 photo", "Poses with Bat", “At the Plate Close-up”,“Over the Dugout”, “Holding His Bat”, Home Run Club Pwr Swing”, Standing Tall with Bat. THESE ARE ALL SCAMS AND THIS GUY HAS 'EM ALL!

[vintagecpa]

I simply don't trust any autograph anymore and refuse to purchase any. I'm far from an expert, but if you give me a pen and 1000 vintage cards, I wonder how many fake autographs I could get certified and slabbed if I did the proper research on what those players signatures looked like? I'd hate to venture a guess. All I know is 20-25 years ago, you rarely ran into autographed cards at card shows. Now, the market is absolutely flooded with them.

[Fuddjcal]

You don't see these out there very often on E-bay...a Genuine Mantle signature with a Global GAI Certificate! This is with a Steve Sipe Cert. The forgeries with GAI Global certs have Mike Baker Cert.

Anyone who is new to collecting Mantle, Take a close look at this one and compare it to the forgeries and I think you'll see there is NO COMPARISON