So exactly what do you want from a show?

[bbcard1]

I got a call from Marco Rol (Chantilly) yesterday. We go back 20 years or more. He said he was interested in working to create something to make the show appealing to Net54 members. So what realistic perks would you like if you could "design your show" or part of it at least? A designated vintage area? Trade area? Free coffee and a case of crabs? Early admission for Net54 members? He would like to hear.

I have recently had pretty good luck at that show.

[HRBAKER]

To me it is not a matter of anything that "shows" don't do that makes them less appealing or relevant than they used to be. With the multitude of auctions, ebay and the Net54 BST I really don't even consider going to more than the National each year at this point. The National is an overwhelming critical mass of the hobby and is a must-go if possible, to me any other shows that I would have to travel to means spending money/time on travel, lodging, food, etc. that I can deploy on cardboard or something else. My .02.

[Zan]

If Net54 members were to get in early, how would we prove our membership here?

[bbcard1]

If Net54 members were to get in early, how would we prove our membership here?

You show your tattoo, silly. I thought everyone had one. Leon said it was a condition of registering on the board....:D

[rdixon1208]

You show your tattoo, silly. I thought everyone had one. Leon said it was a condition of registering on the board....:D

I had mine put on the small of my back

[Zan]

You show your tattoo, silly. I thought everyone had one. Leon said it was a condition of registering on the board....:D

Must have missed the memo

[insidethewrapper]

Were there any posted attendance figures on the 2010 National in Baltimore ?

[scottglevy]

I think that it makes all the sense in the world to group "like dealers" together. So have a section for dealer that primarily have 1800s (OJ, Mayos, etc), one for T-cards, goudeys/exhibits etc, 1950/60, 70s-modern bball, other sports, -- very similar to how the BST is organized.

[Jewish-collector]

I have known Marco for about 15 years. He used to have a show in Richmond as well as in Chantilly, but dropped the one in Richmond to concentrate all his efforts for Chantilly.

A show has different purposes for the different types of collectors. Some collectors (like the guys on signingshotline.com) are mainly interested in the in-person autograph signings, so they don't care what dealers are setting up and what they are bringing to sell. There are, of course, the "shiny stuff" collectors, who don't care about the autograph signings nor vintage. The members of Net54 are, obviously, interested in vintage cards & memorabilia, so again it doesn't matter who is signing.

I think Marco has decided that the autograph signings are more important, so therefore a lot of the national dealers have stopped setting up because a lot of collectors of vintage cards were not attending. There may be other reasons, but that's a large part for it. If Marco truly wants a Net54 presence, he would have to put much less emphasis on the autograph signings to try to get the vintage dealers back. Perhaps he could partner with an auction house to have a live auction one evening during that weekend.

Alan

[Robextend]

I think that it makes all the sense in the world to group "like dealers" together. So have a section for dealer that primarily have 1800s (OJ, Mayos, etc), one for T-cards, goudeys/exhibits etc, 1950/60, 70s-modern bball, other sports, -- very similar to how the BST is organized.

I think that is a great idea, it would definitely maximize the potential of a collector acquiring more needs for their respective collections.

Also can we minimize the amount of dealers that use “book price” for everything?

[David W]

I think that is a great idea, it would definitely maximize the potential of a collector acquiring more needs for their respective collections.

Also can we minimize the amount of dealers that use “book price” for everything?

Or even worse, have nothing priced, and have to look each and every card up to tell you what they want for it.

[autograf]

hmmm....Net54 tramp stamp.....very disturbing.

[timzcardz]

If Net54 members were to get in early, how would we prove our membership here?

Just wear your Net54 pin from The National.

You don't have one?



Security!

[judsonhamlin]

hmmm....Net54 tramp stamp.....very disturbing.

'Round here they're known as a** antlers.

I think grouping dealers makes a great deal of sense - antique and paper shows do that and it makes the show much more manageable.

While I would like to see show promoters make some effort to monitor dealer conduct (rudeness being #1), I'm not sure that such a proposal is reasonable.

[ValKehl]

The best thing Marco could do to make the Chantilly Show more appealing to Net54ers is to get more more dealers of vintage cards and memorabilia to attend.

Alan, if I remember correctly, Marco had a retail store in Charlottesville maybe 20 years or so ago, before he began concentrating on doing shows.

Val

[Pup6913]

realistic pricing would be a plus

[docpatlv]

realistic pricing would be a plus

This is the answer for me. An example would be, at the last Philly show a dealer had a cabinet card I was interested in. He had listed it on e-bay with a BIN of $1200 which I thought was a little much given the condition. At the show I asked how much he was selling it for, thinking maybe if he reduced the price I might purchase it. Well, he said he was asking $1800. I said thanks and moved on.

I understand that dealers have costs (i.e. overhead, etc.) but at the end of the day, consumers want to pay the least amount possible. Whether your shopping for a new PC, large screen TV, or car, most people are going to shop around and when it comes down to purchasing, they're going to go with the cheapest option (assuming said merchandise is of equal quality and value). People aren't going to pay $1000 for a TV at a local Hi-Fi store if they can get the exact same TV at Best Buy for $800.

Unless you're holding something rare and can realize the price you're asking, I think that dealers have to be realistic in pricing their merchandise. Who's going to pay $500 for a card, when a similar card could be had any day of the week on ebay for $300?

As I said in another post, I've made more purchases at smaller local card shows and even "non-sports" shows than I have at the Philly show.

[Robextend]

Unless you're holding something rare and can realize the price you're asking, I think that dealers have to be realistic in pricing their merchandise. Who's going to pay $500 for a card, when a similar card could be had any day of the week on ebay for $300?

In the past when I have mentioned that fact to dealers who have overpriced their merchandise I have gotten anything from death stares to outright hostility. Apparently they don't take a dose of reality too well.

[docpatlv]

In the past when I have mentioned that fact to dealers who have overpriced their merchandise I have gotten anything from death stares to outright hostility. Apparently they don't take a dose of reality too well.

Rob,

That's another thing I forgot to mention. Many (NOT all) dealers I encounter at shows have the personality of a wet mop. I can't tell you how many times I have been looking at a dealer's unmarked merchandise waiting for the dealer to finish eating his chicken fingers or shooting the breeze with his buddies. It's called customer service. I'm not asking you to stop stuffing your face with french fries drowned in ketchup, but a simple "Hi, let me know if I can help you with anything" would go a long way.

If there's something I want, 9 times out of 10 I'm gonna walk away if the dealer comes across as an a$$hole.

[oldjudge]

Val is exactly right. Great material will bring people out. Great material requires that the best vintage dealers attend. He should offer the best vintage dealers preferential rates to entice them to come. On site grading by SGC is also a plus. He should allow SGC and PSA to set up for free if they will grade on site.

[bbcard1]

I normally find a dealer trying to buy something and totally ignoring me as I try to buy something from him. I mark it at about 50/50 for dealers who are interested in being at a show and those who really should have stayed home.

I absolutely agree on the pricing but what can you say? The promoter can't do much to influence the pricing of the dealers.

At one time I ran a bunch of small shows that were very successful (though I normally did them for a non-profit and didn't make any money at it)...generally sold out of dealer tables the first couple of hours after I set the date and sent out the postcard. I just held the cards of the asshole dealers and pikers for a couple of extra days before I sent them out. I was constrained by the size of the room, so once I sold 30 or so tables, I was done. It worked out fine. People who are promoting shows of more than 150 tables probably don't have that luxury.

[Bridwell]

Getting a large group of the top vintage dealers from the National to attend another show would probably require giving them tables practically for free. If you could get 30-40 vintage dealers in one place, the collectors would come. Once you had the best vintage dealers, the show would grow. Within a few years, it could be huge. I'd recommend approaching the top dealers who were mentioned on Brett's video of the National. Ask them what it would take to get them to another show.

[Rich Klein]

that show has a track record and thus the dealers come.

For any other show, either as a new one or as a continuing one. The aspects will be, constant advertising *primarily local*, using social networks and chat boards *like this one* and reasonable prices all around. That is one of the reasons that the megalopolis is hard to hold really good shows in, in that there are not a ton of reasonably priced places which has all that is needed.

That includes plenty of parking nearby and ease to get to the show.

And, frankly, a promoter may have to take a loss on a show or two to get it off the ground. And many promoters don't understand that starting as a "loss leader* might actually make them more money in the long run.

Also, in the DFW area, we are down to one promoter who tries to run reasonably sized shows. There are no postcards sent out, no social network they use (that I know of) and almost no advertising (not even the free listings in SCD and Beckett). I usually only find out about this promoter's shows by accident.

Regards
Rich

[oaks1912]

Rich...You touched on most of the key issues.... Parking, convenient location, affordability (for promoter,exhibitors, and attendees) and LOCAL advertising. National advertising, for the most part, is a waste of funds as more than 95% of the attendees will come from a 50 mile radius. There are several hidden costs that many show dealers, attendees and first time promoters do not consider to get a show off the ground. A "vintage only" show was tried by two different promoters in the '90's. Ed Keetz in New York and Dennis Purdy in Northern California both promoted "pre 1976 shows" and both were eventually phased out. It's a great idea, but not financially feasible today. It would be more efficient to organize a gathering during the week of the National amongst that specialized group as there has been with Postcard, Japanese, and PCL specialists in the past. I still believe in the concept of a local show run by local individuals. It's the responsibility of the promoter to select a varied group of exhibitors. A 50 table show featuring 40 exhibitors with T-206's would be a disaster for the exhibitors and for the 95% plus of attendees who don't collect T-206's. As the posts on this board have illustrated, there is a wide range of interest amongst the core group of collectors here, and keep in mind that the Net54 participants represent a fraction of 1% of the interests in the sports collecting hobby today.:)