A Fantasy Poll for Old Judge Collectors

[Joe_G.]

Assume card condition is constant across all options/cards with strong photos and no major flaws front or back.

<b><u>Option Details</u></b> (read the fine print before voting):

<b>Anson in Uniform</b> - Anson is not a difficult card if you settle for his portrait in street clothes however his portrait in uniform is another story with only 3 copies known in private collections. Anson in uniform is considered by some the 19th century T206 Honus Wagner. So rare, it seems as though a collecting career can come and go without seeing one offered publicly, the 19th century Holy Grail.

<b>3 California League Cards + Irwin with Wilkes-Barre</b> – To obtain a single example of a California League card is beyond the means of most collectors, advanced or not, with many of the cards being unique. This option allows you to choose your favorite player/pose from each team (Oakland, Sacramento, & San Francisco) plus add the most difficult team card to your collection with John Irwin, player/manager of the Wilkes-Barre Coal Barons. This should be an attractive option for those interested in the California League (or Pacific Coast baseball history) as well as advanced team collectors.

<b> 495 Card Partial Player Set</b> – 495 of 521 possible players, missing the 19 California League players (no Veach California League or with St Paul) and seven others (no Flynn, Gibson, Hahm, Cusick, Warner, Davin, or Doran). Despite this, there are some extremely tough cookies including Anderson, Boyd and many others. The collection would include a complete run of all 27 HOFers. By any measure, this would be a true world-class collection including cards that haven’t been offered in years.

<b> Super Sized HOFers </b> – Here is an option dedicated to the HOF and large format junkies. This option sends 23 different HOF Old Judge cabinets your way together with your favorite large Gypsy Queen HOFer (either Connor, Ewing, Keefe, Kelly, or Ward). The Old Judge cabinets fall four short of the 27 HOFers found in the Old Judge set. The four missing players would be Griffith since he hasn’t yet been catalogued in cabinet form and three others, Beckley, McPhee, and Galvin, who are only known in museum collections. Cabinet rarities such as Delahanty, Rusie, and many others would highlight this option. As an added bonus, multiple examples of colored mounts (brown & black) and advertising (Dogs Head) would be present. You can even specify King Kelly in his “Street Clothes” portrait if you desire.

Depending on who is buying and selling, the values could be similar.

[jcmtiger]

Tough decision Joe G, but I voted for the Cabinets. :confused:

Joe M

[rhettyeakley]

Voted for the Anson ( I guess I'm the only one that went that way thus far!), I may have voted for the large accumulation but with the book you guys made firmly in hand I know it wouldn't be enough and I'd have to go all Jay Miller on all you all and try and get all the poses/team var's!
-Rhett

[E93]

I guess I am the second to vote for Anson in uniform. It was a very tough decision, but as Joe mentioned, it is very possible that an Anson in uniform will not be publicly offered in the next 20 years. The N173 HOFs will, at least most of them.
JimB

P.S. Great poll idea!

[GoldenAge50s]

I chose the quantity & the fact that all HOFers are present. Having the CA Lg cards of guys I never heard of just wouldn't mean much to me.

[barrysloate]

I went with the Anson also, but there are no bad choices. You can take the three you want and leave me with the worst one.

[kkkkandp]

Joe:

I went for the California League and Wilkes-Barre option since I already have the makings of an OJ team-example subset.

If you would have thrown in a Players' League team set choice as well, I would have been more torn.

Kevin

[aaroncc]

I voted for the Anson in uniform.

[oldjudge]

Joe-Really interesting choices. I started with the assumptions that I had no Old Judges and which of the four choices would I want. I went with the 495 cards. The other choices wouldn't mean much to me (except monitarily) if I didn't have a strong basis in the set and the only way to get that is with the 495 N172s. My second choice would have been the cabinets.

[t213]

I voted for the California League cards because that option meshes the best with my PCL focus. My second choice would be the large group.

Andy

[uffda51]

I couldn't decide until my cursor moved, Ouija-like, towards Anson. No bad choices, though.

[joeadcock]

Take many.

[steve B]

I went with the cabinets. I don't have even one yet, but I really like the big format. I've just missed a few deals on comons, having a run of HOF players would be pretty cool. The Cal league and anson would mean more to other people, but the cal league would have been a second choice. The big lot would be nice, but not quite as nice as a few cabinets.

Steve B

[Steve D]

I was leaning toward the cabinets, but the fact that this choice leaves four HOFers missing, led me to pick the 495 different cards.

I'd keep the HOFers, Dummy Hoy, California Brown and (I can't think of his name, but the player who went on to be an umpire and was considered for the HOF last year), and sell/trade the rest for other HOF N172s and N173s :)

Steve

[yomass]

The cabinets are the obvious choice for me.
And a large Gypsy Queen to boot!
This would get you an image of almost all the top players of the era in a format that is ideal for viewing detail.

[Cat]

Anson in uniform

[brianp-beme]

Quantity means 'a lot' to me.

Brian

[slidekellyslide]

I went with the four nine five.

[Bicem]

cabinets - would be a sweet collection.

[3-2-count]

I chose the 495 different subjects with the cabinets taking the second spot.

[ghostmarcelle]

I'll take the cabinets - when do I get them?

[Anthony S.]

I'll take the 495 cards, but only show them to itty-bitty people, so as to maintain a cabinet-like ratio of person size to card size.

[deadballera]

gifts are gladly accepted

[autograf]

Quantity guy here.........
1) 495
2a/b) Cabinets / Anson
3) California

I'd weigh the cabinets & Anson about the same for me but if you threw in a Browning cabinet, you'd have me with the cabinets. I like the intrigue of the California league but at $100K per card, they just don't excite me the way they would Jay (if, say, he already had a few Old Judges). Plus I'd be happy to have the Kelly, Mgr, Louisville card in the 495 lot.........great question........

I guess I could see 300K(ish) for each lot being a reasonable price.........or am I off (yeah, yeah, I know...mentally)

[tbob]

Take many.

+1

[Joe_G.]

Very interesting results with significant support for each option after 79 votes cast. I tried to make each option very different yet equally enticing. Per Kevin, perhaps I should have thrown-in one example of each of the four Player’s League teams on option 2 (again allowing the player to be selected) to garner a little more interest and give us a true 4 way tie. And I agree with Tom on rough value. I believe the value for each option resides between $200-$400k+. Anyone who collects the tougher cards (for which all 4 options contain) know prices can become quite volatile thus the wide range.

What I find interesting is that one of the easiest options to achieve (relatively speaking) received very strong support. If we had four different collectors with $400,000 assigned one option each (note that there is no overlap in the options, so they wouldn’t be competing for the same cards), I suspect option #3, 495 different subjects, would be the first completed. The only option that might beat it would be Anson in Uniform since it only requires one of the existing 3 owners to sell (or a new discovery) but I think the chances of that within the next five or so years is unlikely. The other two options are just too tough to complete without a lot of time, luck, and help.

For this and other reasons, I don’t understand why we don’t see more collectors publicly going after as many subjects as they can obtain. The 495 mark is obtainable (assuming you have the funds) and once you hit it, you can really focus on the best way to arrive at the magical 500 club, with or without California League cards.

For the record, the three authors of the Old Judge book all voted differently. Jay took 495 cards (w assumption he currently has none), Richard the cabinets, and I the Anson in uniform. My vote however could change day-to-day. Like I said, I tried to make them equally enticing. If I could pick Detroit poses I need on the 495 card option then that would sway me that way but not to be. I’d like to finish the reply with how I would have chose my cards for the California League option which was also very interesting to me.

This option allows you to pick favorite player from each team. These cards cover an interesting facet of baseball history and have an interesting look with their outdoor shots (all but Breckenridge were outdoor poses). My favorite picks are as follows:

<b>Oakland</b> – McDonald for his interesting but brief major league stint in three different leagues. I really like the wood fence background on many of the Oakland cards.
<b>Sacramento</b> – Breckenridge, the only California League card discovered thus far that is an indoor studio shot. This card also pushes the limit on fitting his name, position, and team on the same line.
<b>San Francisco</b> - Doyle is classic, I like the fans taking notice in the stands behind Doyle. Appears that many of the Sacramento and San Francisco players were photographed at the same stadium (similar background).

Per the rules, mid-grade examples of these cards would have to be discovered and then “gifted” to me. Look at these three gems and its tough to pass on this option.

[kkkkandp]

Joe:

To me, the San Francisco examples are more attractive overall simply since their perspective generally seems to take in more of the background rather than just a bunch of fence boards. I like the Doyle for the same reason you do.

My selections for Oakland (Dailey) and Sacramento (Veach) are largely for aesthetics as well, although I was teetering on selecting Tip O'Neill for my Oakland example. There is just something about owning a card of someone named Norris! :D

Kevin