Who is the greatest BB player you ever SAW? [Archive]

quinnsryche

08-13-2010, 06:46 AM

I figured why not start another Battle Royal. The only stipulation here is YOU, not you're dad or granddad, has to have seen him play regularly in your lifetime. Don't tell me you saw Babe Ruth's last at bat so therefore he's the greatest. I am just curious to hear who the board members think is the best of all time. Is it Mantle, Mays, Clemente, Rose, DiMaggio, Ripken or someone else? Incude a story, remembrance or scan of his (your favorite) card. Please limit any opinions to playing only and not "he was nice when he signed my 500 HR bat"! I'm only 44 so mine is a bit more recent: Chicago White Sox 1st baseman/dh Frank Thomas. I don't believe he was on steriods and was the most fearsome hitter I have ever seen (Pujols is a close second).
Edited: Let's try and keep it to 1 player, it's makes the arguments more interesting and anyone can list off 10 HOF'ers. I want this to be your choice of the BEST.

canjond

08-13-2010, 07:00 AM

I will qualify mine by points in their career. For example, I can remember watching Griffey in the '95 wild card series against the Yankees. Game 5 was amazing to watch, even as a Yankee fan.

Seeing both Jeter and A-rod play back in the late 90's, early 2000s. Watching Clemens pitch in the mid-2000s. Those were the best players I ever watched in person.

Yankeefan51

08-13-2010, 07:01 AM

Ted Williams
Willie Mays
Mickey Mantle
Bob Gibson
Roberto Clemente
Sandy Koufax
Whitey Ford

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List
bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com

Tcards-Please

08-13-2010, 07:21 AM

"Greatest BB Player We Ever Saw Play "

The question was the greatest player YOU, not a "we" question.

For me it was:
1. Hank Aaron
2. Nolan Ryan
3. Pete Rose
4. Greg Maddux

I know we were only supposed to pick one, but wasn't able to see the first three at the beginning of their career. Was able to follow Maddux from beginning to end.
r/
Frank

howard38

08-13-2010, 07:32 AM

It's also supposed to be just one player so I'll go with Barry Bonds.

Robextend

08-13-2010, 07:38 AM

There are a few I can choose, but for me, no one was better to watch then Ken Griffey Jr. in his prime.

Roberto Alomar and Greg Maddux were incredible as well.

SmokyBurgess

08-13-2010, 07:41 AM

Hank Aaron.

Saw him several times, but only observed him hit one homer. (July 3, 1970).

Mark

08-13-2010, 07:42 AM

I saw Mays play, but he was past his prime. The most impressive player whom I saw when he was at his best was Clemente.

ChiefBenderForever

08-13-2010, 07:44 AM

Kirby Puckett

glynparson

08-13-2010, 07:46 AM

honorable mention to Mike Schmidt. The best pitchers were Clemens and Pedro honorable mention to Maddux and Carlton. Best closer was Mariano. Dave Parker was up there before he got too heavy into drugs and then later on just too heavy.

David Atkatz

08-13-2010, 07:48 AM

Mickey Mantle

barrysloate

08-13-2010, 07:51 AM

Mays and Clemente.

4815162342

08-13-2010, 07:52 AM

I saw Cal Ripken, Jr. play (Yankees @ Orioles) on 4th of July week his last season (2001).

David W

08-13-2010, 07:57 AM

Albert Pujols

Kalineman

08-13-2010, 07:59 AM

Willie Mays. Five tools as a player. A tool as an autograph guest.

scottglevy

08-13-2010, 07:59 AM

I saw Dwight Gooden pitch several times in 1985. While the guy's career got sunk by drug use, I've never seen a more consistently dominating player than Dwight during that season --- what a pity!

I suppose that if we're talking about the best career player I've seen though I'd have to vote for one of the following:
Griffey Jr.
Clemens
Maddux
Pete Rose
(sadly I never got to see Nolan Ryan)

Mikehealer

08-13-2010, 08:16 AM

Easy one. George Brett.

oldjudge

08-13-2010, 08:37 AM

Best players I ever saw: Ted Williams, Willie Mays, Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Barry Bonds, Albert Pujols, Mariano Rivera

Most overrated players I ever saw: Mickey Mantle (and I'm a Yankee fan), Nolan Ryan, Ozzie Smith

BIN at VCP

08-13-2010, 08:43 AM

I think OP got it right: Frank Thomas. I'm only 24, but I don't think there's been a better all-around hitter since Ted Williams. I won't comment on Pujols, as I rarely watch the National League.

Since its hard to compare pitchers and hitters, I'll mention Maddux, too. Not sure if he's necessarily the best pitcher I've ever seen, but he's the best pitcher I've ever seen considering his relative physical prowess and athletic ability. :D As a White Sox fan, Mark Buerhle reminds me of him, except about three levels below him.

barrysloate

08-13-2010, 08:53 AM

Jay- how was Nolan Ryan overrated?

martyogelvie

08-13-2010, 09:14 AM

Lots of players come to mind but only one player sticks out;
Don Mattingly

slidekellyslide

08-13-2010, 09:17 AM

Best Pitchers
Roger Clemens - pre-juice era.
Nolan Ryan - threw a two hitter in the game I saw him

Best players
George Brett
Bo Jackson
Wade Boggs
Don Mattingly
Sammy Sosa

Touch'EmAll

08-13-2010, 09:18 AM

Nolan Ryan - I grew up about 30 minutes from Anaheim Stadium in the 1970's. My dad took me to the game CalTech timed Ryan at 100.9 mph for the Guiness book records fastest!

I remember literally EVERY game the question arose - "Is he going to pitch another no hitter today?"

Ryan has the lowest opponent batting average allowed in the entire history of Major League Baseball.

Also - Bo Jackson. Remember the 1989 All Star game - he had a leadoff homerun and an absolutely wicked throw from the warning track to gun out on the fly Harold Reynolds at the plate.

I honestly believe it to be the best outfield throw ever - prove me wrong on this one. My dad said Carl Furillo was pretty bad ass with the throwing arm as well. Sorry Clemente fans, Bo had a better arm - and accurate as all get out!

bcbgcbrcb

08-13-2010, 09:21 AM

For one season, Eric "The Red" Davis in 1987.

Orioles1954

08-13-2010, 09:22 AM

That I personally saw at a ball park? Barry Bonds, Albert Pujols, Cal Ripken and Eddie Murray.

quinnsryche

08-13-2010, 09:25 AM

I can't believe anyone would put Bonds, Sosa, A-Rod or any of the other roid cheats on the list of best ever. What a shame we are so forgiving.:(

oldjudge

08-13-2010, 09:25 AM

Barry--Ryan was an excellent pitcher, but nowhere near an all time great. For his career he is 32 games over .500. 1/3 of his seasons were losing seasons. He never won a Cy Young award. He was only an all star in 8 of his 27 seasons.

and as for Mickey Mantle, hitting third for what was probably the best lineup in baseball, he only had over 100 RBIs four times in 18 years. Berra and Skowron were great clutch hitters; Mantle was not.

HercDriver

08-13-2010, 09:30 AM

As a Cubs fan, I would say watching Ryne Sandberg was fun, although probably not "the greatest." Mark Grace was the best from a "guy I want on my team" perspective. However, if I had to pick the greatest I saw consistently, it would be Mike Schmidt for the way he tore us up every time he walked on the field. He was awesome to watch...

Take Care,
Geno

ChiefBenderForever

08-13-2010, 09:30 AM

Kirby Puckett was my favorite, but did see Hank Aaron when I was 5. Saw the greatest current player Derek Jeter several times. Caught a foul ball pitched by Johan Santana/ El Duque duel ( greatest thrill at a game ever ! ) and probably saw the last walk off home run Cal Ripken ever hit his last year at Camden yards !!

Robextend

08-13-2010, 09:31 AM

Barry--Ryan was an excellent pitcher, but nowhere near an all time great. For his career he is 32 games over .500. 1/3 of his seasons were losing seasons. He never won a Cy Young award. He was only an all star in 8 of his 27 seasons.

Wasn't most of what you said a product of the teams he was on? I don't think that should take away from his ability.

I also disagree with Mantle being overrated, but I am too young and really have little value in my argument. :)

53Browns

08-13-2010, 09:31 AM

Pete Rose - Not much in the way of talent but 110% heart. IMO played harder than anyone - ever.

oldjudge

08-13-2010, 09:43 AM

Rob-Somewhat. The teams that Ryan played on were middle of the pack quality, although some of the Astro teams were pretty good. I'm not saying he wasn't good; he was very good. Great pitchers win even on bad teams. Look at Steve Carlton (a better pitcher than Ryan) who was 27-10 in 1972 when the Phillies were 57-90. Even Tim Lincecun in 2008 was 18-5 when the Giants were 72-90.

smtjoy

08-13-2010, 09:52 AM

Nolan Ryan by a wide margin for me. I got to see two of his 1 hitters in person, amazing! He was the lone star on some terrible Astros teams. I remember the year he lead the NL in ERA 2.76 and went 8-16 as he got zero run support.

kcohen

08-13-2010, 09:53 AM

In person - Willie Mays

On TV - Roy Hobbs

RichardSimon

08-13-2010, 09:55 AM

No doubt about this answer - - Willie Mays

Tony Gordon

08-13-2010, 10:03 AM

Watching Bruce Sutter pitch for the Cubs in the late 1970's was pretty amazing. When he had the split finger going, it was unhittable. He made great hitters look like clowns. He saved 133 of the Cubs 379 wins from 1976 through 1980.

I also enjoyed watching George Brett, Reggie Jackson, and Pete Rose.

I hated some great players because they always beat up on my Cubs like Willie Stargell, Al Oliver, Mike Schmidt, Steve Garvey and Phil Niekro.

M's_Fan

08-13-2010, 10:04 AM

I'm going to go with Randy Johnson. I've never seen a more dominating player.

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/0604/pg2_g_johnson_mariners1_600.jpg http://www.sportsmemorabilia.com/files/cache/randy-johnson-baseball-card-1989-topps-traded-57t-seattle-mariners-excellent-condition_4543ce9b4719f4589857397b52f1cf5d.jpg

barrysloate

08-13-2010, 10:17 AM

Jay- I don't agree that Ryan was overrated. That would only be the case if baseball historians rated him one of the greatest pitchers ever, and he isn't in that category.

His 5714 strikeouts and 7 no-hitters are of course otherworldly, but his average winning percentage and so-so control hurt his overall career record.

What Ryan did have is the livest arm in baseball history. He lasted 27 years, which for a fastball pitcher seems impossible. There were many games in his career where he threw over 200 pitches (can you imagine that today?), and the only serious arm injury he ever had occurred on the last pitch he ever threw.

Ryan set strikeout records that will never be approached but I have never heard anyone say he was in the class of Johnson or Matty or even Koufax. So it's hard to say he was overrated.

Wesley

08-13-2010, 10:20 AM

1. Barry Bonds
2. Ken Griffey Jr.
3. Albert Pujols

HercDriver

08-13-2010, 10:24 AM

Tony -

Good call on Al Oliver - that guy was amazing in Wrigley. Everytime he came to the plate, you knew he was going to get a hit...

Take Care,
Geno

oldjudge

08-13-2010, 10:26 AM

Barry-Fair point. I have heard people call him one of the greatest pitchers ever and in my mind that is just plain wrong.

barrysloate

08-13-2010, 10:42 AM

There were some things Ryan could do better than anyone who ever lived, but assessing his overall career I would say he was not as outstanding as some of his peers.

glchen

08-13-2010, 11:02 AM

(1) Bonds
(2) Pujols
(3) Pedro Martinez (at his peak)

Barry was a juicer, but the problem is that if you grew up in the last 20 years or so, pretty much every good player could be suspected of juicing. I know Thomas, Griffey, Jeter are probably not, but you never know. The entire era is tainted.

Beatles Guy

08-13-2010, 11:19 AM

Still playing but I have to go with Albert Pujols.

tbob

08-13-2010, 11:24 AM

Greatest player I ever saw (career) Mickey Mantle

Greatest performance for one game ever:
Jack Morris' 10 shutout innings in Game 7 of the 1991 World Series.

sflayank

08-13-2010, 11:26 AM

since 1963 when i started watching these were the best in their prime years
koufax marichal gibson palmer seaver were the best pitchers
best reliever gossage best 1 inning "saver" mariano
mays clemente aaron in the outfield
brooks ozzie morgan and mattingly around the infield
bench behind the plate
if you put this team on the field for the best 5 years of each ones career its hard to picture them ever losing a game

Peter_Spaeth

08-13-2010, 11:40 AM

Bill James rates Mantle the 6th best player ever, despite those "low" RBIs. One reason his totals were relatively low, aside from injuries keeping down his games played, was the incredible number of walks he drew.

Peter_Spaeth

08-13-2010, 11:50 AM

Maybe the point was made, but Ryan did not win a Cy Young.

D. Bergin

08-13-2010, 12:02 PM

oldjudge

08-13-2010, 12:14 PM

Peter-The idea for a three or four hitter is to drive in runs. Taking your point about walks I looked at a few power hitters to see their ratio of RBIs to ABs. These are the results:

Ruth-.263
Williams-.239
DiMaggio-.225
Pujols-,215
Bonds-.203
Mantle-.186

If not for his injuries he might have been an all time great, maybe the greatest ever, but injuries are part of the game. Because of his knees he was not a base stealiing threat and had to be replaced in the outfield for defensive purposes late in games. Additionally, he finished his career with a sub .300 average (even if he skipped his last year his average would have been barely over .300). Also, he batted in one of the best lineups of his time which provided many more RBI opportunities than available to a normal three or four batter.

Writehooks

08-13-2010, 12:26 PM

Catfish Hunter in his last two seasons with the A's. Absolute master of control.

old-baseball

08-13-2010, 12:46 PM

To me it has to come down to Hank Aaron. Take away every single one of his 755 home runs and what do you have? Answer - 3,016 hits. Still enough to get you into the HOF.

I'm surprised that no one ever makes a case for Rod Carew. The guy was an absolute hitting machine. Fifteen straight years with an average over .300 and seven AL batting titles in a ten year period.

quinnsryche

08-13-2010, 12:59 PM

Steroid allegations aside. Strictly from a practical standpoint it's hard to argue against Barry Bonds.

His On Base %'s are nearly Ruthian, and in the modern game unheard of.

I don't think he ever saw a decent pitch to hit the last 5-7 years of his career, and still put up the ridiculous stats he did.

Only guy I ever saw intentionally walked with the bases loaded.

Not to mention the stolen bases and the Golden Gloves from the first half of his career.

You can't put the steroid allegations aside. He cheated his way to the top. Was 175 lbs soaking wet (Sosa too) when he started. He's guilty, he's a cheat and every single stat and record he has should be eliminated when he's finally found guilty in court next year. He makes me sick.:mad:

Robextend

08-13-2010, 01:05 PM

You can't put the steroid allegations aside. He cheated his way to the top. Was 175 lbs soaking wet (Sosa too) when he started. He's guilty, he's a cheat and every single stat and record he has should be eliminated when he's finally found guilty in court next year. He makes me sick.:mad:

Sadly, Bonds was on his way to a HOF career without steroids.

Sosa def wasn't.

ethicsprof

08-13-2010, 01:05 PM

hank aaron, hands-down.

taught his daughter 30 years ago.

quite the gentleman; quite the lady.

best,
barry

philliesphan

08-13-2010, 01:26 PM

Mike Schmidt, no question

AndrewJerome

08-13-2010, 01:31 PM

1987 is about the earliest I can remember watching games. Living in WA this is an easy choice for me--Ken Griffey Jr.

What couldn't he do on a baseball field in his prime?

Andrew

ElCabron

08-13-2010, 01:48 PM

I agree with Jay on Nolan Ryan being overrated. Best I ever saw in person:

Hitter: Barry Bonds
All-around 5-tool player: Larry Walker (believe it or not)
Pitcher: Pedro in his prime or Hershiser in 1988
Honorable mention: 1980s Don Mattingly

-Ryan

base_ball

08-13-2010, 01:52 PM

Hitter: George Brett
Pitcher: Mariano Rivera

sox1903wschamp

08-13-2010, 02:03 PM

George Brett: Lived in KC from 75-92 and he was lights out most notably from 75-80. Killed the Red Sox and many others.

mr2686

08-13-2010, 02:17 PM

this was a tough one. I saw Mays, Aaron and Clemente, but all at the ends of their careers...but they were still the best out there so that's kinda scary. I saw some great pure hitters like Brett and Gwynn through their whole career make hitting look easy. I saw Brooks Robinson who in my opinion is the best fielder I ever saw, but If I was to pick one player that I've actually seen in my lifetime as the best player I ever saw I'd have to pick Pujols. He's a monster.

rdixon1208

08-13-2010, 02:28 PM

Greg Maddux

WWGjohn

08-13-2010, 02:52 PM

Best pitcher I saw was Koufax and the best hitter, Pujols. I saw Musial at the end of his career as well as Brock and Banks, but Albert is awesome.

John

Exhibitman

08-13-2010, 03:02 PM

Best I ever saw on TV: Nolan Ryan
Best I ever saw in person: Pete Rose
Honorable Mention: George Brett. Gad, I hated that guy in 1976-81.

D. Bergin

08-13-2010, 03:04 PM

You can't put the steroid allegations aside. He cheated his way to the top. Was 175 lbs soaking wet (Sosa too) when he started. He's guilty, he's a cheat and every single stat and record he has should be eliminated when he's finally found guilty in court next year. He makes me sick.:mad:

Well, the question you posed was "Who is the greatest BB player you ever saw?"

If you phrased it differently I may have answered differently.

I have yet to see any player put the fear into pitchers he did...........steroids or not.

Peter_Spaeth

08-13-2010, 03:11 PM

albrshbr

08-13-2010, 03:15 PM

Always loved Tony Gwynn, always put the ball in play

Bonds was just a monster, even pre-steroids

Randy Johnson could dominate a game like no other pitcher I've ever seen

Touch'EmAll

08-13-2010, 03:23 PM

The all-time leader in "lowest opponent batting average": #1 Nolan Ryan with .203, then #2 Koufax with .205

Basically, Nolan Ryan was the most difficult pitcher of all time to get a hit against.

Koufax had the advantage of a raised pitching mound - big help. Nolan Ryan came along after they lowered the pitching mound to make it easier for hitters.

How many no-hitters would Ryan have if he played with a higher mound like Koufax? Maybe 10, 11 or more?

The stupid ass Cy Young voters had a bone to pick with Ryan. Case in point: 1973 Ryan broke Koufax' single season K record with 383, had not one, but 2 no-hitters, was around 20 wins for the lowly Angels. And they gave the Cy Young to Palmer. Makes me sick to my stomach. As a kid I was mortified by the voters decision - as an adult, still am mortified. Could you imagine a pitcher with those season credentials not winning the Cy Young.

Yes, there is sometimes corruption in baseball. Yes, there are media darlings, aka Palmer.

Plain & Simple - Nolan Ryan had the best stuff of any pitcher, ever.

Karl Mattson

08-13-2010, 03:45 PM

Ryan set strikeout records that will never be approached but I have never heard anyone say he was in the class of Johnson or Matty or even Koufax. So it's hard to say he was overrated.

Ryan's career mark of 2795 walks may actually be his most remarkable career baseball stat. Heck, statistically (at 52% above the runner-up) it may be the most remarkable of all baseball career stats. He was a truly amazing pitcher, but he wouldn't be in my top 50 - maybe not even in my top 100 - of pitchers I might select to pitch a WS game 7 for my team.

I'd say Mays was the best player I ever saw, however I only got to see him towards the end of his career. Rickey Henderson was pretty special, but I never thought he reached his potential. I loved my local favorites Killebrew, Carew and Oliva. Killebrew was the best pure power hitter I ever saw, and Carew the best singles hitter. I thought Oliva was destined to be one of the all-time greats until his unfortunate injury (not to be too macabre, but had he been struck dead by a bus in 1972 instead of playing on a mangled knee for several years thereafter, I think he would have made the Hall long, long ago).

Peter_Spaeth

08-13-2010, 04:01 PM

Plain & Simple - Nolan Ryan had the best stuff of any pitcher, ever.

FWIW Bill James ranks Ryan 24th among pitchers.

Doug

08-13-2010, 04:11 PM

Assuming the question means "saw in person" I'd have to say Ken Griffey Jr even though he seemed to get hurt nonstop (and steadily decline in production) after he got here. :(

mdschulze

08-13-2010, 04:21 PM

Since I've only been to a handful of games... all Astros... I enjoyed watching Craig Biggio. Scrappy little guy with a big heart and a heavy bat.

brickyardkennedy

08-13-2010, 04:22 PM

"Say Hey" Willie. And this is the opinion of a lifelong Brooklyn/LA Dodger fan.

chris6net

08-13-2010, 04:25 PM

Pitcher-hands down George Thomas Seaver
Hitter-Henry Aaron
Most dominant for one season would have to be a tie
Ron Guidry in 1977 and Dwight Gooden in 1985. CN

toppcat

08-13-2010, 04:27 PM

I agree: Tom Seaver. I was fortunate to have seen him pitch many times at Shea in the 70's. The best hitter I have seen is still playing: Albert Pujols.

Steve D

08-13-2010, 04:44 PM

In person - Dave Winfield
On TV - Rickey Henderson

Steve

camlov2

08-13-2010, 05:05 PM

Being in my early 30's and not going to many games when I was little I don't have as large of a list to work from as some of you. It took me less then a second to figure out that the only possible answer for me would be Ken Griffey Jr. I was able to watch him during his first spring training when I was just entering my teenage years... I was even able to get an autograph. Hitting, fielding, and the sweetest swing in baseball.

49leaf

08-13-2010, 06:06 PM

Bar none the most dominating player i have ever seen is Jose Canseco. Ask any player who was in the league from 87-90 and they will agree. He was a one man wrecking crew , the players had never seen anyone who could hit run and propel his team to win. Do I agree with the roid use, well they were all on it the last 23 years and Jose was the best.

tbob

08-13-2010, 06:13 PM

By that measure Musial was .170 or thereabouts. I guess he was overrated too? And how great were the hitters ahead of him? Rizzuto? Coleman? McDougald? Richardson? Carey? Kubek? etc. A great overall team yes, but not exactly the Big Red Machine setting the table.

Valid point. Other than a few years when Mantle has Maris batting behind him, he had no protection in the lineup like others have had. Also if you subtract out Ruth (didn't see), Bonds (steroids), DiMaggio and Williams (never saw in person), that leaves only Pujols ahead of him. I will still take Mickey.

nodgrass

08-13-2010, 06:15 PM

Pedro Martinez- for a span of about 5 years he was by far the best player I have seen. ERA's in the high 1's, low 2's during a time when jacked up monsters were hitting 70 home runs.

tedzan

08-13-2010, 06:33 PM

I saw Joe DiMaggio play (at Yankee Stadium and on TV) from 1947 - 1951. He was still tremendous
near the end of his career.

<img src="http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd339/tz1234zaz/joedimaggio41.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

TED Z

Oldtix

08-13-2010, 06:37 PM

I saw Gibson and Marichal in '68, Gooden in '85 and Ryan in '90, but I think the best true pitcher was Greg Maddux. He won more games with his head than with his arm.

I'd go with George Brett as an everyday hitter/fielder; I rarely saw Willie Mays play but don't doubt his credentials. But without question, the most thrilling thing I ever saw was seeing Mickey Mantle hit a towering 450+ ft. home run over the 40-foot fence in right field at Municipal Stadium in Kansas City in 1966. Forty-four years ago, yet I can still recall every detail of that moment...

whycough

08-13-2010, 07:49 PM

Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle, Pedro Martinez. With my own luckey eyes. The rest pale.

BBSD

08-13-2010, 08:14 PM

Easy Johnny LeMaster, whoops I mean The Sey Hey kid- Willie Mays.

Idiottax

08-13-2010, 08:18 PM

For me, it was Greg Maddux, who I saw pitch against Tom Glavine at Shea Stadium in a game which John Smoltz closed. For a big Braves fan and a big fan of pitchers in general, it was quite the experience.

BearBailey

08-13-2010, 08:25 PM

In Person: Hitter Barry Bonds, Pitcher Greg Maddux
On TV: Hitter Pete Rose, Pitcher Greg Maddux

alanu

08-13-2010, 08:29 PM

I'll go with:

Aaron
Clemente
Nolan Ryan
Schmidt
Ripken

with the caveat that Clemente and Ripken are my favorite players

tbob

08-13-2010, 10:21 PM

I know a lot of posters are in their 20's and 30's and early 40's. Just wondering if that is why so many people are picking Greg Maddux over Koufax, Gibson and Ford. :confused:

howard38

08-13-2010, 10:26 PM

By that measure Musial was .170 or thereabouts. I guess he was overrated too? And how great were the hitters ahead of him? Rizzuto? Coleman? McDougald? Richardson? Carey? Kubek? etc. A great overall team yes, but not exactly the Big Red Machine setting the table.

I was going to respond w/a similar post. I would add Billy Martin, Ruben Amaro and Horace Clarke to the "illustrious" list of hitters that set the table for Mantle. It's a wonder that he had as many 100 RBI seasons as he did. Furthermore during the course of his career Mantle himself occasionally batted first or second which further cut into his RBI totals.

MacDice

08-13-2010, 11:43 PM

Ken Griffey Jr and Albert Pujols

dabigyankeeman

08-14-2010, 04:52 AM

I grew up watching Mantle roam the outfield in Yankee Stadium. Nobody like him when he was healthy.

I remember one game where he hit 3 balls over 440 feet and they were all caught by Albie Pearson for outs!!!

Another time, he hit a monster blast that bounced over the high wall at the 457-foot sign for a ground-rule double. By the time the ball got into the bleachers, Mantle had rounded third base and was headed home, and the umpires made him go back to second.

God, how i loved The Mick.

thekingofclout

08-14-2010, 06:53 AM

Jay- how was Nolan Ryan overrated?

Agreed Barry.

I've never seen so many Major Leaguers afraid to face a pitcher. The look of defeat written all over their face BEFORE they stepped into the box!

Also, I saw "the Great One" play a few times at Chavez Ravine, and I can tell you that they gave him that nickname for a reason.

thekingofclout

08-14-2010, 07:04 AM

FWIW Bill James ranks Ryan 24th among pitchers.

I'm thinking that Bill James must have never seen Ryan pitch in person, especially in the '70's.

dabigyankeeman

08-14-2010, 07:17 AM

I'm thinking that Bill James must have never seen Ryan pitch in person, especially in the '70's.

Yes, I saw Ryan pitch one his 200+ career 10 or more strikeout games in person, the guy was an animal, just awesome.

Mark

08-14-2010, 07:27 AM

Ryan threw hard, but so did Gibson and Seaver. It's the latter two who impressed me by shutting down my Pirates on a regular basis.

Peter_Spaeth

08-14-2010, 07:40 AM

Ryan's WHIP is not even in the top 250 of all time. You can look it up. He had flaws to go along with the wicked stuff.

Mikehealer

08-14-2010, 07:41 AM

I can't imagine anyone that saw both Ryan and Seaver pitch actually believing that Ryan was the better pitcher.

barrysloate

08-14-2010, 08:17 AM

Tom Seaver was the much better pitcher, and could be the best I ever saw in his prime.

Jason Carota

08-14-2010, 08:21 AM

Pedro Martinez, hands down. His performance during the 1999 season was out of this world.

Mikehealer

08-14-2010, 08:40 AM

Tom Seaver was the much better pitcher, and could be the best I ever saw in his prime.

I agree, but it would be a coin flip for me between Seaver and Randy Johnson.
And both of them made road trips.

FrankWakefield

08-14-2010, 08:43 AM

Reading through all of these posts, I see the names of players I saw, on the field, in person. I did not see DiMaggio play, nor Ted Williams, nor Satchel Paige. I think I saw the rest of them...

My initial answer to this would have been Mr. Musial. But I recognize bias in that, he was a lifelong Cardinal, a really nice guy, a great ambassador for the game. I thought about seeing Koufax and Gibson pitch against one another in St. Louis, I sat in the right field pavilion behind that screen, I can still hear the popping of the ball in the catchers' mitts. Neither wanted to lose to the other, they were bringing it. I don't think anyone's mentioned Lou Brock, nor should they, but he sure was exciting to watch when he was in his prime, stealing bases. Seaver was serious and businesslike. Same for Ryan, and Randy Johnson. Maddux had that same focus. I saw Mantle play, and Spahn, and Mays. And Clemente. As I've thought this through, maybe Albert Pujols... Or must it be Hank Aaron, with a solid career, complete skill set, and that big bat?

Do I look at a player's performance in a game, a season, a career?? I thought about Bonds, Marichal, Brett, Gwynn, Martinez, Boggs, Sutter... I know it isn't Puckett, nor Rose (although he may well have been the most driven, competitive player I ever saw on the field).

I turned to Bill James' list of greatest players. Mr. James has a way of figuring stuff out. Sometimes I don't initially agree with his results, but usually I'm won over with his reasoning. On page 329 of his revised Historical Abstract, he commences to explain his rating of the Greatest Players of All Time. To paraphrase would be an injustice, go read it, or read it anew. When you get to page 358 he commences his listing. I've put the players I've seen in person in bold.

1- Babe Ruth
2- Honus Wagner
3- Willie Mays
4- Oscar Charleston
5- Ty Cobb
6- Mickey Mantle
7- Ted Williams
8- Walter Johnson
9- Josh Gibson
10- Stan Musial

I'll list some more of the ones I saw...

12- Henry Aaron
15- Joe Morgan
16- Barry Bonds
21- Mike Schmidt
24- Frank Robinson
26- Rickey Henderson
30- George Brett
31- Mark McGwire
33- Pete Rose
34- Eddie Mathews
35- Craig Biggio
36- Warren Spahn
38- Tom Seaver

Joe Morgan was a player who could beat you many ways... seems he was always drawing a walk, or getting a big hit, or the biggest hit, I recall seeing him out in shallow right, knocking down a ball that had "base hit" written all over it, but Joe didn't have his glasses on, he wouldn't read "base hit", and he'd throw the batter out. And he was a presence on the base paths.

Henderson annoyed lots of fans and writers. James thinks that with the passage of time, Henderson's skills will be better appreciated.

Biggio... Mr. James explains that well. I thought he had a good shot at the Hall when he was in his 2nd or 3rd season, so I set out to get his autograph. I was successful. And he was, too.

I had a great uncle who was in the car business. He once told me of riding up to Detroit (from Kentucky) by train with another fellow, they were going to accept 2 cars at the factory and drive them back to Kentucky. He was a good businessman, and frugal. He was all about work and Church. But he did like to fish. And he'd sneak in a ball game once in a while. With a twinkle in his eye he told me about seeing the Senators and the Tigers, he saw Walter Johnson pitch, Ty Cobb hit, and saw Cobb steal a base. That would have been in the early 20's; at that time I'd think that Cobb and Johnson were the greatest players active (Wagner was a coach by then).

So.... the greatest player I ever saw must have been Willie Mays. Seems to me Mr. James' methodology did not include gracious autograph signing.

Peter W Thomas

08-14-2010, 08:45 AM

Hitters:
1. Williams saw from 1947 to last AB in 1960 - nice result - probably would have had 700+ HR if not for 5 years in service 43-45 & 52-53
2. Mays saw 51-53 also saw the throwing contest with Piersol in 53 that wrecked Piersol's arm
3. Rice of the 70's before his sight went bad. Scarry - never seen balls hit harder.
Pitchers:
1. Spann saw 1947 to 1953 a master, would have had 400 wins if not in service 43-45.
2. Gibson saw 1967 RIP Red Sox impossible to hit, also 1968 RIP everyone he faced
3. Pedro with the Sox - Gibson in 68 all over.

obcbobd

08-14-2010, 09:00 AM

Pedro in 99-01 was unbelievable.

For position players, I saw Aaron but at the end of his career. I've seen Bonds twice in person, he was one of the greatest before he juiced.

But picking a player just based on what I've seen, which is mainly Red Sox games I'd go with Yaz, George Brett or ARod

dabigyankeeman

08-14-2010, 09:30 AM

Pedro Martinez, hands down. His performance during the 1999 season was out of this world.

Pedro has really long fingers, and the ends bend backwards, it allows him to hold onto the ball longer and also to put more spin on the ball. The guy is great.

Who's your daddy?

Touch'EmAll

08-14-2010, 09:31 AM

Lets look at this when we toss in our beloved baseball cards.

For their era, the most valuable cards:

Ty Cobb - was the best
Babe Ruth - was the best
Dimaggio & Teddy - were the best
Mantle - was the best
Nolan Ryan - was the best

These players (for their era) have the highest prices for their cards. These players have the highest gap in value between them and their contemporaries.

rnisly

08-14-2010, 10:29 AM

http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp335/rnisly/hershiser.jpg

59 1/3 consecutive scoreless innings

awesome

kcohen

08-14-2010, 11:23 AM

Pedro has really long fingers, and the ends bend backwards, it allows him to hold onto the ball longer and also to put more spin on the ball. The guy is great.

Who's your daddy?

I don't remember the year, but I once saw Pedro pitch a complete game one-hitter in Baltimore. I was seated down low behind home plate. I've never seen such movement on a ball. That had to have been the closest to unhitable I've ever seen.

slidekellyslide

08-14-2010, 11:55 AM

After reading Kirk Radomski's book about the Steroid scandal I've changed my stance on the era somewhat. I now believe that a majority of major leaguers were either on steroids, dabbling with them or taking HGH from about 1997 to 2006..from about 1990 to 95 probably every team had at least one or two players taking steroids, but by 98 most of them felt that they better take them or some guy who is taking them will take their spot on the roster....Guys were taking HGH because it cut their healing time in half. The playing field was level as far as I'm concerned, and I've no doubt that if guys like Maris and Ruth played in the modern era they would have taken steroids too.

I believe someday this will be the prevailing attitude towards the era and that many guys who are now shut out like McGwire, Sosa and Palmeiro will be enshrined in the Hall of Fame.

Bilko G

08-14-2010, 12:15 PM

he even signed an autograph for me:D

http://i36.tinypic.com/261kpvm.jpg

rc4157

08-14-2010, 12:56 PM

I saw Seaver his rookie year (he lost to Mel Queen and the Reds at Crosley Field), I was spoiled growing up with the Big Red Machine with Pete Rose, Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan, and my favorite player Tony Perez. I haven't bothered to look up the stats but Perez seemed to always be reliable with men in scoring position.

I may have seen Hank Aaron, it's terrible but I don't recall if I saw him in Cincy or not.

Also saw Ken Griffey Jr. after coming to the Reds, he could still play, too bad he had so many injuries.

According to Frank's list of Bill James, the best I saw would have to be either Aaron (if indeed I saw the Braves in town, seems like I did) or Morgan.

RC

Edited to add: Hey, this was post #200 for me, only about 300 more and I might nab one of the infamous Net54 pins! :)

FUBAR

08-14-2010, 01:44 PM

Well i'm probably the only person on this board that has never seen a live MLB game. So i don't have an answer. As a fan , the players i wanted to see were Jr, Nolan, Reggie J, Pujols, and Big Mac (ive always been a fan).

Off topic, although i feel left out, i got to see Gretzky play live at least 100 times including hoisting the Cup 3 times in person.. no one has ever dominated his sport like Wayne and it was just magic. But I went to the Oiler games to watch Grant Fuhr.

I got to see Peyton Manning play 1 series against the Seahawks. Hopefully i will get to see him play a complete game live one day!

WhenItWasAHobby

08-14-2010, 03:35 PM

Best player all-around was for me was Clemente. Most of the time he'd take the first strike - so in essence his most of his hitting stats were made by having only two strikes to work with. He had the best arm hands down. A true 5 tool player. May runs a closed second.

I also agree that Pedro Martinez was best pitcher in his prime - especially when one considers that he was truly dominating even in the steriod infested hitting era. Maddux runs a close second and Randy Johnson third.

Peter_Spaeth

08-14-2010, 03:48 PM

One guesses that if Bill James updates his list again, ARod and Pujols and Bonds will be very near the top.

dabigyankeeman

08-14-2010, 04:08 PM

Nobody mentions relief pitchers, how about Mariano Rivera? What this guy has done for so long in the regular season, the playoffs, and the world series staggers the imagination.

DixieBaseball

08-14-2010, 07:56 PM

Barry Bonds (Pre-Roid 3 MVP era, and should have had 4, but Ken "Steroid" Caminetti, took one from Bonds early in his career. A lot of folks forget that Bonds was 185 lbs, when he was doing the 30/30 thing every year. His arm was lively from left, he could steal, hit for avg or pwr. He was the best before he took roids. Roids made him better than Ruth. (At least that is what the numbers say...) I would also possibly throw in Pujols, but he has no speed, but may be the best hitter I have ever seen. B/C of Pujols lack of speed, I would give it to Bonds pre-roid era. He won half his MVP's on roids and the other half off. Simply look at his toothpick arms and legs for his first 3 or 4 MVPs.

Peter_Spaeth

08-14-2010, 08:32 PM

I have seen, both live and TV, mostly American League games. Brett, Griffey, ARod, Clemens, Pedro, Rivera.

Theoldprofessor

08-15-2010, 09:32 AM

"Saw" Jackie Robinson in '48, but was only 6 at the time. Remember nothing.

Clemente. Never did anyone run the bases like Roberto. Saw him throw out a runner at third from deep right-center in Forbes, on the fly. By about 6 feet.

Maddux. "Mad Dog?" STUPID name for the most cerebral pitcher of our generation. Knew, like maybe a half dozen players in the history of the game, how to pitch. A privilege to watch.

Ladder7

08-15-2010, 12:43 PM

...no one has ever dominated his sport like Wayne and it was just magic.
One word, Bobby Orr. Though Wayne was a close second and Mario an even closer third :)

Back on track, 2004 playoffs... Dave Roberts is the greatest I'd seen (From a barstool on Cocoa Beach), for stealing second. Sparking the greatest comeback in MLB history by ending a thousand year drought. Though the missus and most everyone I knew had written them off, I still did Believe. *whew*

Peter_Spaeth

08-15-2010, 01:07 PM

Even though I am from Boston I think anyone who says Orr was better than Gretzky is being overly provincial/nostalgic.

tbob

08-15-2010, 01:34 PM

FrankWakefield

08-15-2010, 02:36 PM

When I first saw this thread I was thinking Mr. Musial was the greatest I'd seen. But as I mentioned above, after reading through posts and consulting Mr. James' Historical Abstract, Willie Mays must have been the greatest. Musial had a better average, more games, more doubles, more triples, a better on base percentage, a better slugging average, more walks, and Mr. Musial was infinitely nicer when signing an autograph for someone... Willie could play, though. I remember seeing him the first time, knowing about his basket catches and how I shouldn't be doing it. I can still see that first basket catch... and he almost always was in motion when catching a ball; if it was far from him he'd be flying across the outfield grass, if it were only a few steps away he'd wait the ball out and drift over at the last moment. I can see him wheeling around third base, dead set on scoring, hat flying off and arms churning. Willie brought excitement to the ballpark.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j106/greatwake/Mays1953and1967T.jpg

Mark

08-15-2010, 02:54 PM

Red Barber (who saw almost every player in the majors from Babe Ruth to Griffey Junior): "If I could have any one pitcher in history to pitch a game for me with my life on the line, there is no doubt who I would want to pitch that one game: Carl Hubbell."
Just thought I'd mention that since no one ever mentions King Carl. I understand that no one here is old enough to have seen him play in person. I just think he never gets his due.

2 years ago, I was at a dinner and found myself sitting next to an older fellow who taught at a university in California. We got to talking about baseball, and when he told me his age and that the Giants were his favorite team as a boy, I asked him if he'd ever seen Hubbell pitch. His eyes lit up and he told me he saw him pitch many times. He described his motion, his arms, the break of the pitches. I felt like I'd seen him, too. Near the end, he leaned over and said, "you know, I think I saw Bill Terry, too."

jimm

08-15-2010, 03:35 PM

Greatest I'd seen probably Bonds or Rickey.

sago

08-15-2010, 04:12 PM

FrankWakefield

08-15-2010, 04:34 PM

I agree, sago. There were several of those #1 starters from that time that seemed like they'd be saving a bit for later on, and sometimes they'd get roughed up that first inning. If you didn't get them then, you didn't get 'em...

howard38

08-15-2010, 04:49 PM

Tom Seaver ainec.
The most harrowing part of the game was always the first inning, or if Tommy Hutton was in the lineup for the Phillies.

If anyone knows of a website that shows career pitching stats for each inning, I'd bet that Seaver's ERA after the 1st inning is significantly lower than his career ERA.

The same is probably true for Steve Carlton.

Spot on sago. If you scroll to the bottom of the link you'll see that seaver's first inning ERA was 3.75 and for every other inning (including extra innings) his ERA was below 3.00.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=seaveto01&year=Career&t=p

howard38

08-15-2010, 04:55 PM

Jeremy, it was Terry Pendleton that "robbed" Bonds of an MVP early in his career although in his defense he had an outstanding season and was not to my knowledge linked to PEDs. When Caminiti won a few years later it was Mike Piazza that finished second in the voting and Bonds was fifth.

JasonL

08-15-2010, 05:09 PM

was my favorite player, Ozzie Smith. I just never saw such a high level of mastery at playing his position than the performances he turned in every day.

But the most incredible thing I ever saw in person at a game, was Ichiro's right field play. I don't recall the particulars, except that I was attending a Yankees game vs. Seattle in 2002 (I think), seated several rows up and even with the first base bag. A Yankee hitter lifted a deep fly to right field, a runner tagged at third, Ichiro drfits over towards the corner and ctahes the ball. He then made the most amazing throw I have ever been witness to in person. You could almost hear the ball zing past us in a straight line, and the catcher cathes the ball at knee height on the third base side of the plate for the out.

I would like to have answered Kirby Puckett for this question, but unfortunately, I never got to see him play in person. I had centerfield seats for a Twins game at Comiskey, but it was the first game cancelled due to the strike, and the game then lost me for 10 years.

Ladder7

08-15-2010, 07:29 PM

Even though I am from Boston I think anyone who says Orr was better than Gretzky is being overly provincial/nostalgic.

Gawrsh Peter, Orr controlled both areas of the rink. Killed penalties too. He put in some superhuman minutes. Some say, that kid could do everything but fly. I suspect you're too young to have seen his ice capades and are simply trolling.

Of course, as a true 60s Bostonian (not one raised out in the burbs). It's possible, my opinion could be bias'd. Prostalgic Steve

sago

08-15-2010, 07:40 PM

Spot on sago. If you scroll to the bottom of the link you'll see that seaver's first inning ERA was 3.75 and for every other inning (including extra innings) his ERA was below 3.00.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=seaveto01&year=Career&t=p

Thanks for the link. It felt like it should be available while I was searching, but couldn't find it.

Peter_Spaeth

08-15-2010, 08:13 PM

Gawrsh Peter, Orr controlled both areas of the rink. Killed penalties too. He put in some superhuman minutes. Some say, that kid could do everything but fly. I suspect you're too young to have seen his ice capades and are simply trolling.

Of course, as a true 60s Bostonian (not one raised out in the burbs). It's possible, my opinion could be bias'd. Prostalgic Steve

He could fly. :D

Peter_Spaeth

08-15-2010, 08:16 PM

Hockey News agrees, FWIW.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_100_greatest_NHL_players_by_The_Hockey_New s

sox1903wschamp

08-15-2010, 08:42 PM

bbcard1

08-16-2010, 07:26 AM

Great thread...two ways of looking at it. One is that there are players with a sustained period on unquestioned greatness...Johnny Bench or Mike Schmidt would probably be those guys for me, though an argument could be made that Albert Puljos is approaching it...and it a gun were held to my head, I may have to hold my nose and say Barry Bonds. Just because you don't want something to be so doesn't mean it isn't.

There have been lots of guys who were greater for a summer or so. There were months/years where Mattingly, Gooden, Eric Davis and Bo Jackson were just incredible...as good as anyone...it just didn't last too long.

JasonL

08-16-2010, 09:56 AM

There have been lots of guys who were greater for a summer or so. There were months/years where Mattingly, Gooden, Eric Davis and Bo Jackson were just incredible...as good as anyone...it just didn't last too long.

I've never had so much fun as I did in 1986 and 87, watching Gooden, Eric Davis, and Bo. They were incredible fun to watch, albeit the performances were WAY too short...The only other time I've seen a ball do what Dwight did with it was in wiffle ball tournaments...

GoldenAge50s

08-16-2010, 11:25 AM

Casting my vote for Mantle--Hands down the only player I ever saw that could make "the hairs on your neck tingle" in anticipation when he came to the plate.

Saw Mays, Clemente, Aaron, etc and yes, Ted Williams--NONE OF THEM could elicit that same feeling!

dstraate

08-16-2010, 12:08 PM

I'm going to rehash what a few others have said, but two come to mind.

Clemens and Maddux

Wildly different styles and demeanors, incredibly dominant.

(And I just said Maddux and wild in the same sentence, it is the first time that's ever happened)

You witnessed history on the board people

Bill Stone

08-16-2010, 05:26 PM

Duke Snider

t210scouts

08-16-2010, 06:17 PM

1973 at Three Rivers Stadium. I was visiting some cousins and the Pirates were playing the Braves. Aaron entered late in the game as a pinch hitter and he received a standing ovation. Long fly ball to left field. It was my first MLB game.

MMarvelli

08-16-2010, 06:28 PM

Mays

seinbigd

08-17-2010, 12:53 PM

Sandy Koufax vs. Astros in newly opened Astrodome. Dodgers 11, Houston 1.
Houston homered and got to see the new scoreboard go off which was a really big deal in 1965.

Tabe

08-17-2010, 03:56 PM

I would also possibly throw in Pujols, but he has no speed, but may be the best hitter I have ever seen.
Albert has stolen 11 bases this year so far and 16 twice in his career previously. He's not A-Rod or Barry Bonds in their primes but he's certainly way above having "no speed".

Tabe

Rickyy

08-19-2010, 12:52 AM

I saw Willie Mays play as a kid, but he was at the tail end of his career...

My best pitchers whose careers were(are) still in full bloom - Nolan Ryan and Mariano Rivera
My best everyday player - pre juice Barry Bonds

Robextend

08-19-2010, 08:38 AM

Albert has stolen 11 bases this year so far and 16 twice in his career previously. He's not A-Rod or Barry Bonds in their primes but he's certainly way above having "no speed".

Tabe

Pujols is definitely one of the smartest baserunners in the game. He is one of those guys that don't necessarily have speed, but know how and when to steal bases.

steve B

08-19-2010, 11:37 AM

I only saw Mays and Aaron at the end of their careers, Mays at the very end with the Mets, first year I paid much attention to sports.

Of the players I've actually seen in person, it's very tough to pick a best player.
Rice in 78 was incredible, I still haven't seen balls hit that hard even with the juicing. Lots of wall denting Fenway singles that might have been homers somewhere else too.
Pedro was amazing for a few years.

And a few guys that could have been incredible, or don't get much credit for various reasons.
Lynn in 75, a shame he was so fragile and played so hard. I knew the season was heading south whenever he hit the wall.
Evans for pretty much his whole career. Not a spectacular batter, but incredibly consistent, and had a great arm. Not Ichiro, but the best I've actually seen.
Varitek. Yeah, not flashy, but catchers are a big part of pitchers being successful, and he's got the record with 3 no hitters. And none of them came with great pitchers. He Nearly had a fourth with Schilling, who said the hit came on the only pitch he shook off.

And to go way out on a limb -
Dave Kingman. Below average fielder I think, couldn't hit for average, not much speed. But if the Sox had ever signed him the season HR record would likely be around 80-90. Think of all those huge popups he hit going to left in Fenway.....The year he played for 4 teams I saw him hit one that hit up in the lights of the second light tower.

Steve B

gfgcom

08-19-2010, 12:16 PM

Koufax
Clemente
Mays
Mantle
Aaron
B Robinson (fielding)

jboosted92

09-23-2010, 07:33 PM

Koufax
Clemente
Mays
Mantle
Aaron
B Robinson (fielding)

Nice Convo:

Here is my evaluation:

1. Pitcher - PEDRO ...His intimidation and domination, especially for his size was something that I will enjoy telling generations to come.....When he would come out of the bullpen, it was probably what it was like when Satchel Paige would walk out to a Negro League game in the 30;s and 40s....

2. Hitter - Bonds - Im sorry, i know the steriods, but i saw him hit (i think #710) in Washington...i was third base line, and i swear that ball was at 500 feet in about 3 seconds. I was actually sitting behind Tim Russert (RIP) both were left speechless....

3. Field - Kenny Lofton - The dude had Jets....thats it, pure jets...

4. Arm - Tied Dwight Evans/Vlad - both dont need explanations

Notables:

1. Ken Griffey
2. Juan Gonzalez
3. Frank Thomas
4. Pujols....cant wait to see the next 10 years

HRBAKER

09-23-2010, 07:37 PM

Pitcher: Greg Maddux
Non-Pitcher: Albert Pujols

matthew

09-23-2010, 07:57 PM

Albert has stolen 11 bases this year so far and 16 twice in his career previously. He's not A-Rod or Barry Bonds in their primes but he's certainly way above having "no speed".

Tabe

Pujols scored on a wild pitch today & the ball probably did not get 10 feet away from home. He slid before the catcher could even make a throw.

Has anyone mentioned John Smoltz? Best pitcher I ever personally watched.

HRBAKER

09-23-2010, 08:05 PM

I know a lot of posters are in their 20's and 30's and early 40's. Just wondering if that is why so many people are picking Greg Maddux over Koufax, Gibson and Ford. :confused:

I picked Maddux and I am in my 50s Bob. I just look like I'm late 30ish. :D
And I grew up in St. Louis and saw Gibson pitch for years.

slipk1068

09-23-2010, 08:20 PM

Tony Gwynn. As a Met fan, seemed like he was on base every at bat against us.

Dwight Goodens 1st few years were impressive but I would have to give Maddux as my choice for pitcher

chaddurbin

09-23-2010, 09:18 PM

bonds...he was so much better than anyone else. closest thing to babe ruth in our time.

martin neal

09-24-2010, 04:31 AM

I saw Bob Gibson in 1968 at Shea Stadium. Unbelievable.

Irwin Fletcher

09-24-2010, 10:03 AM

I have to agree with many of the previous posters - definitely Pedro Martinez. He might be the greatest pitcher in MLB history.

bijoem

09-24-2010, 10:08 AM

I've seen many greats, so I am sure I am slighting a lot of players.....

but for me (with an admitted personal bias) - there was no greater than Johnny Bench.

nebboy

09-24-2010, 12:46 PM

BO - was fantastic to watch - wish he played long enough to get more credit.

Bonds early years was a great 5 tools player, it was fun living in Pittsburgh in the late 80s.

King Albert has my attention now, such great on and off the field.

curch

09-24-2010, 05:46 PM

Does Yankee Old Timers day count? :)

CMIZ5290

09-24-2010, 06:04 PM

it's also supposed to be just one player so i'll go with barry bonds.

leaded or unleaded?

CMIZ5290

09-24-2010, 06:08 PM

i saw mays play, but he was past his prime. The most impressive player whom i saw when he was at his best was clemente.

mark- might have to agree with you there. When i was a kid at atlanta fulton county stadium, i saw clemente catch a fly ball on the track, and gun down ralph garr coming home from third. The baseball never hit the ground! At the time, garr was thought by many to be the fastest player in the national league. He was out by 10 feet.

Kawika

09-24-2010, 06:13 PM

Mantle for me. He was a thrill to watch back in the fifties.
Does Yankee Old Timers day count? :)
In that case, take your pick.
Roster for Old Timers Day at Yankee Stadium, 1959
http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgallery/memberfoldersko/kawika/miscellany/large/1959%20Old%20Timers%20line-up.jpg

CMIZ5290

09-24-2010, 07:07 PM

I remember vividly as a youngster listening to my great- grandfather. He was a baseball fanatic and one of the greatest experts in the game. He told me numerous times, hands down, the greatest ever was ty cobb.

mark evans

09-25-2010, 03:25 PM

Willie Mays. Although I grew up a Yankee fan and idolized Mickey, Mays was simply the best.

Tabe

09-28-2010, 05:22 PM

Gave this some more thought and my answer is Alex Rodriguez. Pujols and Bonds would be right behind but I think A-Rod's defense puts him over top of the other two.

Tabe

Kenny Cole

09-28-2010, 07:04 PM

Bonds. You can talk about steroids all you want, but he was so much better than everyone else, even the other juicers, that it wasn't even close.

esd10

09-29-2010, 10:57 AM

the greatest player i have ever seen is ozzie "the wizard" smith i had seen him play in person and he was so graceful on defense the greatest shortstop in my oppion

SteveMitchell

09-29-2010, 02:01 PM

Given the limitations of the question, I cannot list TED WILLIAMS because I only saw him play a few times and exclusively on a grainy, black and white 1950's TV whose horizontal hold often failed.

So, for hitters I would go with Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Mickey Mantle and Ken Griffey, Jr. Had A-Rod not been involved with steroids, he would get my nod because (especially) when he was younger, he was talented and hustled on everything . At DH, none has equalled Edgar Martinez.

Among pitchers, Sandy Koufax in his prime was virtually unbeatable but Warren Spahn remained great twice as long as Koufax. Today, Cliff Lee reminds me very much of Koufax. I never saw Bob Feller but he was still pretty good twenty years after his retirement. In the end, I'll go with Spahnie!

mayx2

09-30-2010, 12:03 PM

I say Clemente.

Lou

btcarfagno

09-30-2010, 01:41 PM

I am most likely taking someone like Pujols for granted. But growing up in the 70's and 80's, the only baseball I got to see all the time here in Jersey was Met and Yankee games. As a fan of the NL in general, and a Yankee hater in particular, it pains me greatly to admit this. But the best player I ever saw was Donnie Baseball circa 1984-1988. I am sure there were a bunch of others during this time, I just did not see them often enough to say they are the best "I ever saw".

To me, Mattingly was the only player I have ever seen that would make me stop whatever I was doing because he was at the plate.

Tom C

margoaepi

09-30-2010, 01:47 PM

During his prime I don't think I saw anyone swing the bat or field the way Vlad did. What an arm on that guy. If only his back had held up and he didn't waste all those years up north.

tedzan

09-30-2010, 03:38 PM

I saw Ted Williams play (at Yankee Stadium and on TV) from 1947 - 1960. As a Yankee fan, I still got a thrill when Ted would hit a HR
into the RF upper deck at the Stadium. After all it didn't really matter, as the Yankees would win the Pennant, anyhow.

<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/bowmangumcotedwilliams.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

I saw Satchell Paige pitch (when the Yankees played Cleveland or the St Louis Browns) from 1948 to 1953. He was certainly exciting
to watch. It's too bad we didn't see more of him.

1949 LEAF......(one of the top 10 cards in my collection)

<img src="http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd339/tz1234zaz/paige2.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

I saw Mickey play many times at Yankee Stadium (and on the TV) from 1951 - 1968. He was the best there was in the post-WWII era.
What I consider really amazing about Mickey is.....he was a shy teenager from a small town that arrived in the "Big City"; and, stepped
into the footprints of a tremendous Yankee legend....and, succeeded beyond all expectations.

I can think of only one other ballplayer in the modern era with that distinction....Can you name him ?

<img src="http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd339/tz1234zaz/mmantle52t.jpg" alt="[linked image]"> <img src="http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd339/tz1234zaz/a1969tbluemantle.jpg" alt="[linked image]">

TED Z

Peter W Thomas

09-30-2010, 03:59 PM

Left fielder right after ted no ted but pdg.

tedzan

09-30-2010, 04:17 PM

Yaz grew up in a small potato farming town way out in Suffolk County, Long Island, NY. He stepped into Ted Williams footprints in LF,
and the rest is BB history.

I met him briefly up in Cooperstown in 1989 at his HOF celebration event. A really fine gentleman.

TED Z

Teamsets4u

09-30-2010, 04:58 PM

I was always amazed with the skill of Eric Davis.

Best pitcher I ever saw would have to be Greg Maddux or Pedro Martinez

Mark70Z

01-19-2011, 08:27 PM

Northviewcats

01-19-2011, 08:37 PM

My dad only took me to Tiger games, but I'll never forget the day I saw Mantle it a homer in Detroit. He was the best I ever saw in person.

Second best Mariano Rivera.

Joe

ethicsprof

01-19-2011, 10:39 PM

hank aaron---saw him play a number of time.
interestingly, i was fortunate to teach his daughter when she was in prep school in atlanta. She brought me a signed baseball, addressed to me personally and an autographed picture of Hank's homerun which surpassed
ruth's lifetime record.
man, i loved that job.
best,
barry

dougscats

01-20-2011, 06:13 AM

Barry Bonds on steroids. He was in another league.

Ditto for Sandy Koufax, for those 5-6 years.

Kenny Cole

01-20-2011, 07:40 AM

MilBraves

01-20-2011, 08:13 AM

I was lucky enough to see Hank Aaron play towards the end of his career. He tops my list.

I also had the opportunity to watch Robin Yount play on numerous occasions. He is my hometown pick. More hits than any other player in the 80s. 2 MVPs at different positions. He flew so far under the radar because he played in Milwaukee, that when he won his second MVP in 89 he didn't even make the All Star team.

quinnsryche

01-20-2011, 08:27 AM

Koufax pitched the first game I ever saw in person. It was his last year in the majors and I was five years old. I had no clue what what happening, but I remember watching all those Giants batters flailing away and hitting nothing but air. He went 9 innings and pitched a shutout. It was awesome, I was hooked, and he was my hero from then on out. He still is.

Until Barry Bonds came along, I never thought I would see anyone who approached Willie Mays as an all around baseball player. Bonds was better. Steroids or not, he was so good it was scary.

Kenny Cole

You can't discount the steroids considering he was on it for possibly the last 8 - 10 years of his career. How good would Willie Mays have been all doped up? Hit 1000 hrs.? 3000 rbi's.? Who knows? What we do know is Bonds was a cheat and every stat and record he owns should be expunged from the MLB records along with all the other cheaters: Palmeiro, McGwire, Clemens, A-Rod, Sosa etc. Let me leave you with this, if Bonds was so good, why did he have to cheat 1/2 of his career?

Kenny Cole

01-20-2011, 09:06 AM

tachyonbb

01-20-2011, 09:57 AM

Pitcher: Bob Gibson Living in a minor league town, we only got to St. Louis once every other year or so to see a game in person. In 67 I was finally on my own and drove to St. Louis a few time just to watch him pitch.

Batter: Most explosive home run I have ever seen came from Barry Bonds. We were at spring training in Scottsdale and he hit one that got to fence faster than I have ever witnessed before. The whole crowd just went silent for a moment after that shot.

Mollys Dad

01-20-2011, 10:32 AM

Pete Rose. I grew up watching him and the Big Red Machine play. I was at the game on Sept. 11th, 1985 when he broke Cobb's record. My ears still hurt.

peterb69

01-20-2011, 11:22 AM

Hitter - George Brett
Pitcher - Roger Clemens
Althlete - Bo Jackson

quinnsryche

01-20-2011, 11:32 AM

Spare me the self-righteous indignation about steroids. I don't care. If you do, power to you. Engaging in that discussion is an absolute waste of time.

Regardless of the reason, Bonds was simply the most feared player in the game, and rightfully so. I also guess we need to discount all of Mays stats because he took greenies, right?

Greenies didn't blow your body up to 2x it's normal size, give you the head the size of a basketball or turn you into a rage driven prick. Choose to ignore the fact that what these guys did certainly effected they're performance 10 fold. Jimmie Foxx and Ted Kluszewski cut their uniform sleeves off because of hard work not needles. "Engaging in that discussion" is NOT a waste of time as long as you don't idolize or respect the accomplishments of cheaters and drug addicts. By the way, if you don't care, why respond? Bonds was feared because he was an abnormal freak, no one ever talked of not pitching to him when he weighed 180 lbs.

Mikehealer

01-20-2011, 11:53 AM

I'm not sure, but Bonds led the league in intentional walks basically every year from 1992 forward. Here is a picture of him in 1992, doesn't look all that big.
He was easily the best player in baseball from 1990 until he retired. I couldn't care less if he or any of the steroid users get in the HOF, but there is no denying he was the best player in baseball before and after steroid use.

glenv

01-20-2011, 03:44 PM

In 7 years Bonds hit .275 for Pittsburgh and his best HR season was 34. He was the best in baseball at the time???

Mikehealer

01-20-2011, 03:52 PM

In 7 years Bonds hit .275 for Pittsburgh and his best HR season was 34. He was the best in baseball at the time???

If you read my post I said from 1990, which would include his final three years in Pittsburgh.

Kenny Cole

01-20-2011, 04:19 PM

SteveMitchell

01-20-2011, 04:56 PM

stadiumechoes

01-20-2011, 05:12 PM

Hitter: Barry Bonds
Pitcher: Nolan Ryan or Greg Maddux
All around: The great one, Roberto Clemente.

Interesting though, while giving this some thought, I honestly kept coming back to Dave Parker. I know you can't look at his whole body of work, but I don't think I would be out of line saying that for a short period in the late
70s, he was or was close to the most feared hitter and best all around baseball player in the game.

chris

01-20-2011, 05:22 PM

I am not a Bonds fan. But, he was unbelievable to watch. Had he retired in 1998 I'm confident he still would have been a first ballot HOF. He was the best I ever saw play.

quinnsryche

01-20-2011, 05:23 PM

Tony,

I responded, because you had first responded to my post. I don't care if you like my selection or not. And discussing steroids is a waste of time as far as I'm concerned. Do you really think that your rant about what you believe on that issue, stated as if its the only viewpoint that can possibly exist, matters to me at all? If you do, you are very much mistaken.

The question you asked was who was the best player you ever saw, not who was the best player you ever saw who you can unequivocally state didn't cheat. My answer was Bonds. That's still my answer. The fact that you don't seem to like my answer changes nothing.

Kenny, I just responded to your original comment, you are the one who got all defensive and jumped me. Seems that it's always the steroid defenders never want to answer any questions ever posed. I asked 2 simple questions in my original response to which you answered neither then became belligerent. After looking at your responses, looks like you are the one who is only entitled to an opinion. This will be my last post on this issue.
Thanks for sharing!

Kenny Cole

01-20-2011, 05:49 PM

Tony,

Excellent. Tell you what, the next time I want your opinion, I'll ask you for it. You can do the same for me. That way we don't have to waste each other's time. Have a nice day.

rc4157

01-20-2011, 06:37 PM

The best I've seen growing up was Brooks Robinson. You guys may have seen the '70 WS, or highlights, but that was normal play for him. He just had the opportunity w/in that series to display his glovework, but that's the way he played day in...day out. I haven't seen a better thirdbaseman than Brooks or any fielder for that matter. He was definitely a clutch hitter as well along w/hitting behind the runner...etc.

I thought Bench was a great catcher and one of the best ever!

Gotta love Roberto in the outfield!

Really there are so many GREAT players it's hard to name just one!!:D

Being a Reds fan, I definitely remember Brooks Robinson's exploits in the '70 World Series, it seemed that everything down the 3rd base line was an out for the Redlegs. It was a great series for him and I'm sure those that had the opportunity to watch him every day came to expect those types of performances.

He didn't disappoint!

RC

powderfinger

01-20-2011, 06:58 PM

Grew up in the Chicago area and spent a lot of time at Wrigley from the late 50s to the mid 80s (still get back to Chicago for a game or two every year). I will never forget sitting behind home plate and watching Sandy Koufax pitch. He was amazing from that vantage point.

talkinbaseball

01-20-2011, 07:26 PM

These are the best I saw live, the Sey Hey Kid (Mays),Mantle & Seaver.

Bigdaddy

01-20-2011, 07:48 PM

I'd have to go with Griffey for a position player and Nolan Ryan as my pitcher. If not for the steroids (and that's a big if), I'd almost go with Bonds and Clemens. Barry changed the way games were played - but I don't beleive he did it without some help.

rdixon1208

01-20-2011, 07:59 PM

Having a prime seat just north of Seattle, I had opportunity to see Ken Griffey, Jr., many times in person and on TV. He was awesome - except for his dogging it down to first base after a ground-out.

Edgar Martinez was the best DH - a real, professional batsman. He could hit the ball wherever announcer Ron Fairly would frequently indicate it ought to go - given the situation.

I saw Ted Williams (on TV) in his final AB, so must follow the rules and not pick my favorite all-time hitter, and I never saw Mays, Musial, Aaron, Clemente, Mantle or a handful of others post-1960 enough to really have a legitimate opinion of them. All-around, I'd guess Mays or Griffey, Jr. were the best I've seen but, strictly speaking (given the parameters), KGJr. is #1.

I've been hearing a lot of talk about Martinez lately, particularly naming him the best DH ever. It's kind of silly to me. His only job was to hit the ball, and he was never an all time great as far as hitters go IMO. Assuming that he was the best DH ever....that doesn't mean much to me. He was just a better hitter than the other guys that also couldn't play defense.

old-baseball

01-20-2011, 08:15 PM

The best pure hitter I've seen in my lifetime has to be Rod Carew. He could flat stroke the ball where ever / whenever he wanted to.

A lot of people have mentioned Bo Jackson and I can remember seeing him in Cleveland in his rookie season playing for the Royals. He struck out first three time up to bat and looked pretty bad in the process, but you could just see the power in his swing as he whiffed pitch after pitch. After he struck out for the third time I leaned over to my friend I was at the game with and told him that if he ever connected the ball was going to travel a long way. The fourth time up he did connect, hitting a screaming line drive that the short stop jumped and just missed catching. The ball landed well over the left center field wall (in old Cleveland Municiple Stadium) and just missed making the bleachers (which was a heck of a poke). The short stop just missed catching it and neither the center or left fielders moved - just turned their heads and watched it go.

Wite3

01-21-2011, 08:05 AM

Hmm...for pure talent Puljos and Maddux and Carlton and Schmidt.

For pure toughness and a player who played hard...Mickey Hatcher. He played with limited talent (although more than 99.9 % of the population) but with great drive and desire and intelligence. That makes a great player to me.

Mickey Hatcher was standing on second when a small looping single was hit into left. As he rounded third, he started shouting "Cut, Cut" and the third baseman thinking it was the pitcher calling it, cut the throw off and Hatcher scored. SMART baseball.

"I would rather be the worst player in the major leagues than never play in the majors at all" --Mickey Hatcher

novakjr

01-21-2011, 08:43 AM

I'm still relatively young at 31 and from Cleveland, so I might seem a bit biased. I've seen alot of games. Frank Thomas was great. Ripken was my all time favorite, but not the greatest. Seen all the modern greats come in and out of Cleveland to play against the Indians. Used to go to at least 1 Pirates game a year back in the late 80's-early 90's. Bonds and the early 90's Bucs were fun to watch.. All that being said, honestly, watching the mid-90's Indians teams were more that I could've ever asked for. Well, a World Series Championship would've been nice. Manny, Thome, Murray, the Alomar Brothers, Lofton, Vizquel, Winfield, Matt Williams and Jeff Kent(half-season), Albert Belle, Hershiser, Dennis Martinez, Jack Morris, this could go on forever..

Anyways, Robbie Alomar was just beautiful to watch play, and probably the best all-around player. Vizquel and Alomar as a combo might be the greatest defensive duo ever.

I also wanna add, as brain dead as Manny can be at times, you just can't beat watching him bat in the play-offs(especially when he was with Boston). It didn't matter what count, what pitch, what game situation, nothing fazed the guy. I guess it was just his idiocy, and he didn't know any better, but you just couldn't put any pressure on the guy. I honestly think the guy could be swinging a broomstick, while you have a defense full of naked centerfolds shooting guns at him, and pitching a golf ball at 100 mph, he'd still get a hit.

Zach Wheat

01-21-2011, 09:02 AM

Probably Mantle...one of my favorites.

glynparson

01-21-2011, 12:45 PM

The answer is Bonds plain and simple. Cheating has and always will be part of baseball. We dont seem to hold it against all the greenie users. We talk about the Prewar guys like their immortals, when they only played against a percentage of the countries best athletes and essentially none from around the world. Also I saw Bonds play A LOT in Pittsburgh and to say that pitchers didnt fear him then is total B.S. revisionist crap. He was a jerk yes did he do roids yes. but guess what the rules stated you couldn't use them but also gave no punishment for using them so was it even really cheating? Where do you draw that line? Andro? Creatine? Protien Powder? Hell lifting in general all are performance enhancing that's why their done. I would hold it against Bonds if I did not think the overwhelming majority of Pros including many Good guys, see Andy Pettite, used the stuff. Should kids idolize him hell no, they shouldn't have before he ever injected anything, but the guy could flat out play. And you can even make the argument he was a better player, all around player that is, before he bulked up.